America is making citizens of all countries fill out a form when creating a new account

[Naam]

My objection is the arrogance and meddling of the US requiring financial institutions to jump thru hoops to identify US citizens and their US threats to those financial institutions if they don't comply. I hope we soon reach a stage where institutions turn round and call them on those threats and tell them to **** off as they don't want anything to do with US and USD

your objection is justified and duly noted Fletch. however, the thought of "institutions turning around" belongs to the category "wet dreams"

The world is already turning and the balance of power shifting. You could be closer than you think in your predictions. Dreams for the next generation.

On almost every metric the US and USD is losing importance. Financial institutions turning away and not wanting to deal with US clients. Use of USD continually decreasing as a % of world trade. Russia looking closer to China and making noises about settling directly in currencies other than USD. While neither country is strong enough to tell US to their face, both are making preparations to reduce reliance on USD. Small "Alternative" to the world bank launched. Reminbi settlement outside China. Aftermath of GFC. Geopolitical tensions. US crippled with debt. GDPs growing in the East. Even Thailand does more trade with China now than the US. The massive fines the US has levied on non-US businesses in recent years: banks, BP etc...

On a personal level I was brought up in a country with a pride in strong links and shared values with the US. I see them more negatively than ever, and more and more people likewise. I'll be quite happy for my kids to shun many of the US government values in their dreams. Girls dreams though

Only a matter of time... for next generations dreams it is indeed a strong possibility... the US empire is setting and their paperwork just adds to the fire. A hundred years from WW2 would seem about right for the end of the US empire and dominance...

Cheers

Fletch

for the record: financial institutions do not want to deal with US clients because they can't afford not to deal with the U.S.

please quote that decreasing percentage of world trade, compare it with total world trade denominated in USD and let's roll on the floor roaring with laughter

disclaimer: i agree with most other parts of your posting!

[Naam]

question: who agrees with the revised spelling of FATCA?

suggestion: FUCTYA

[fletchsmile]

A hundred years from WW2 would seem about right for the end of the US empire and dominance...

How about tomorrow? Doing the world's heavy lifting, for no gain that I can see, has become a real pain -- as well as costing dollars we can't afford.

NATO is a complete joke, as it serves absolutely no purpose for the US -- but it costs us plenty, since we end up paying the majority of the other members' "fair share." And still having troops stationed in Europe is ludicrous -- "no boots on the ground" anywhere, except in the homeland, should become our motto.

Our historical mistake was pissing off the Japanese, thus precipitating our entry into WWII. It would have been a lot better -- from the US perspective -- to have had Germany win. Teutonic efficiency throughout Europe would have made for a super trading partner for the US -- and, of course, with a manageable problem on the Western Front, the Germans would have nipped the Soviet problem that has followed us to this day. And the 7.5 trillion dollars we wasted restoring Europe with the Marshall Plan (which was never be paid back) would have made for a nice rainy day fund.

No, cutting off Japan's oil after that little disturbance in Nanking was typical American arrogance. And look where it got us. Oh well.

Fletch, where did you put your money after selling those stocks? Would be interesting to do a "what if I hadn't" a few years from now. Who knows -- maybe Washington will get its act together -- and we Yankees can once again live as happy isolationists, and let the rest of the world sort things out. One can only hope.....

Jim

Somewhere along the line I think the US got lost with its "heavy lifting". Intervention in WW2 was heavy lifting that benefited the whole world, and the world would have been for the worse without it.

Interesting question if US had chosen differently. I think the optimal would have been to enter earlier and nip things in the bud earlier. Not getting involved could have gone many ways, I think the UK, allies and Russia etc would have won out anyway, just would have taken longer. On the other hand if Japan and Germany had triumphed, I'm quite sure the US would have become uncomfortable with their power rivaling that of US and later possibly exceeding it. Really couldn't see them living in peace, with at minimum a cold war.

It's the heavy lifting and intervention since WW2 has gone wrong: Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Hence while WW2 marked a great and important entry into world influence, it's been downhill since then not long after.

There was a satirical cartoon in today's "other newspaper" today. Picture 1 was a "problem" of a murkey middle east militia armed by the US. Picture 2 was the "solution" of a murkey middle east militia armed by the US.

Pretty much sums up where we're at. US backs Sadam Hussein as they don't like Iran. Few years later, Kuwait as a result of Saddam. Few years later 911 /Al Qaeda etc. Few years later another war with Iraq based on lies about WMD to oust Saddam. Iraq remains a messed up as a country with difficulties establishing a decent power and becomes a breeding ground for undesirables. Afghanistan thrown in along the way with the Taliban. Fast forward and we're now looking at the IS issue - Iraq (again)/Syria. All this heavy lifting arguably as a result of US interference in the first place.

Hopefully yes the US will move more towards keeping its troops at home for their sake as well as the world generally. It's the average US guy that loses out as well as the world at large - often the cost of US lives is overlooked by the real anti-Americans. Hopefully also the large oil and gas reserves the US now has will decrease their tendency to want to over control supplies in other countries and the links it has had in recent wars. Many people will also naturally link the cost of wars with the need for money, and hence the impositions on other countries with things like FATCA being the tip of the iceberg. Coming full circle FATCA probably wouldn't be needed if the US had have done less heavy lifting and we'd all be better off. In terms of world leadership, US in many ways has become the country that needs to be heavy lifted and refreshed somehow - the cause of more problems than its solving.

On the investments/trading. Looking at non-Thai and non-THB to be more comparable:

- Some held in cash, just keeping powder dry. S&P with P/E over 20 and the good run in recent years is way too high and far from cheap or a bargain. At some point something will give. The question is when not if, and I'd rather be sat on cash

- I much prefer SGD to USD for cash. This century SGD has gained around one third vs USD. The trend will continue in my view, although slower and with a few blips, until there is a massive negative event for US. Singapore is much safer and better managed on so many levels. Great place for US nationals to renounce citizenship too

- For the US stocks mentioned, I held partly for income and solid values. Now they look expensive, USD is a long term liability and yields struggling below 3%. Throw in 15% WHT (even with Naam's favourite W8-BEN) and I was getting around 2.5%. US Treasuries same problem. Just not worth the risk. One replacement has been adding to Singapore REITS: 6%+ yield, SGD and price to book values of around 0.9 for ART/FCT/FCOT. Not without risk, but I feel much safer than US equity income, collecting income, better currency and less overvalued.

- Other areas: Frontier Market Funds and EM funds for better value and potential.

- Should also add I bought some more Russian based funds (at the risk of sounding even more anti-US ) They have been beaten down and are on low P/Es so nobody likes them. Sure the country has a lot of issues. The difference between the US and Russia though, is the US is overpriced with too much good news prices in and waiting for something to go wrong. Russia has a lot of bad news already built in so something will eventually go right. Mid to long term bet though for a small proportion

- Also bought a few European stocks: Allianz, Daimler, BMW (from your Teutonic friends) - lower P/Es than US around 10 and 3% - 4% yields. Also I have to confess a French stock AXA similar reasons 4%+ div P/E 10.

If I had to pick one alternative for retirement income instead of US equities it would be the Singapore REITS: SGD, not heavily overvalued, 6% yield+. Won't make someone rich, but a safer and steady income. A bit boring really - like Singapore, but comfortable risk vs reward. Did I also mention no WHT, no need for a W8-BEN and no FATCA paperwork either.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited September 25, 2014 by fletchsmile

[JimGant]

It's the heavy lifting and intervention since WW2 has gone wrong: Vietnam, Iraq [2003, not 1991], Afghanistan etc.

Fletch,

Agreed. Contrast those decisions with those made by a commander-in-chief with first hand knowledge of military limitations -- and the horrors of war.

Eisenhower, for his eight years in office, ended the war in Korea, kept us out of Vietnam, kept us out of the Middle East (Suez Canal crisis), and realized the futility of "rescuing" Hungary. Eight years of Pax Americana.

Downhill from there.

Obama seems to really want to extricate us from the Middle East quicksand, which I applaud. Too many young American arms and legs litter the desert. I'm just afraid a young American pilot's head will be next. And, unfortunately, we don't have enough bombs and cruise missiles to prevent the next American airliner from being brought down. How we react to that should be interesting -- or not.....

Thanks for your financial details. Obviously, you're a "sophisticated" investor. I'm afraid I'm limited to index funds -- and bond laddering. But, the fundamentals of the US economy look fine to me (or fixable, when some bozos are removed from Washington), so I'll just keep hoping the dollar continues to ride along at 32 to 1 with the baht.

Edited September 25, 2014 by JimGant

[nzvic]

American currency is the dominant one which gives it Seigniorage advantages: "quoted from Wiki = "right of the lord (seigneur) to mint money"), is the difference between the value of money and the cost to produce and distribute it. The term can be applied in the following ways:

Seigniorage derived from speciemetal coinsis a tax, added to the total price of a coin (metal content and production costs), that a customer of the mint had to pay to the mint, and that was sent to the sovereign of the political area.[1]

Seigniorage derived from notes is more indirect, being the difference between interest earned on securities acquired in exchange for bank notes and the costs of producing and distributing those notes.[2]

The term also applies to monetary seignorage, where sovereign-issued securities are exchanged for newly minted bank notes by a central bank, thus allowing the sovereign to 'borrow' without needing to repay.[3] However, monetary seignorage refers to the sovereign revenue obtained through routine debt monetization, including expanding the money supply during GDP growth and meeting yearly inflation targets.[3]

Seigniorage is a convenient source of revenue for some governments."

I'm thinking the rise of the RMB (Chinese currency) may interfere with this convenient source of profit for the American government as the dominant currency, so maybe the imposition of such global measures is to pre-empt/slowdown that rise. I understand that the PIGS and China are thinking about a common currency. A theorist argues that currency, like language, is used the more it's used leading to domination accruing advantage.

Only heard about seigniorage for the first time last night at my economics club meeting; maybe I've got the wrong "take" on it.

[AyG]

American currency is the dominant one which gives it Seigniorage advantages: "quoted from Wiki = "right of the lord (seigneur) to mint money"), is the difference between the value of money and the cost to produce and distribute it.

Not the same as droit du seigneur then, though both involve screwing the innocent.

[Naam]

American currency is the dominant one which gives it Seigniorage advantages: "quoted from Wiki = "right of the lord (seigneur) to mint money"), is the difference between the value of money and the cost to produce and distribute it. The term can be applied in the following ways:

Seigniorage derived from speciemetal coinsis a tax, added to the total price of a coin (metal content and production costs), that a customer of the mint had to pay to the mint, and that was sent to the sovereign of the political area.[1]

Seigniorage derived from notes is more indirect, being the difference between interest earned on securities acquired in exchange for bank notes and the costs of producing and distributing those notes.[2]

The term also applies to monetary seignorage, where sovereign-issued securities are exchanged for newly minted bank notes by a central bank, thus allowing the sovereign to 'borrow' without needing to repay.[3] However, monetary seignorage refers to the sovereign revenue obtained through routine debt monetization, including expanding the money supply during GDP growth and meeting yearly inflation targets.[3]

Seigniorage is a convenient source of revenue for some governments."

I'm thinking the rise of the RMB (Chinese currency) may interfere with this convenient source of profit for the American government as the dominant currency, so maybe the imposition of such global measures is to pre-empt/slowdown that rise. I understand that the PIGS and China are thinking about a common currency. A theorist argues that currency, like language, is used the more it's used leading to domination accruing advantage.

Only heard about seigniorage for the first time last night at my economics club meeting; maybe I've got the wrong "take" on it.

don't mix up "PIGS" with "BRICS" and refrain from spreading fairy tales like a BRICS common currency.

in favour of your "economics club" i am assuming you have totally misinterpreted what was lectured there yesterday evening

[zierf1]

I use my wife's bank account if I need to(she lets me).

[Pib]

I use my wife's bank account if I need to(she lets me).

Only because you keep it topped up.

[nzvic]

American currency is the dominant one which gives it Seigniorage advantages: "quoted from Wiki = "right of the lord (seigneur) to mint money"), is the difference between the value of money and the cost to produce and distribute it. The term can be applied in the following ways:

Seigniorage derived from speciemetal coinsis a tax, added to the total price of a coin (metal content and production costs), that a customer of the mint had to pay to the mint, and that was sent to the sovereign of the political area.[1]

Seigniorage derived from notes is more indirect, being the difference between interest earned on securities acquired in exchange for bank notes and the costs of producing and distributing those notes.[2]

The term also applies to monetary seignorage, where sovereign-issued securities are exchanged for newly minted bank notes by a central bank, thus allowing the sovereign to 'borrow' without needing to repay.[3] However, monetary seignorage refers to the sovereign revenue obtained through routine debt monetization, including expanding the money supply during GDP growth and meeting yearly inflation targets.[3]

Seigniorage is a convenient source of revenue for some governments."

I'm thinking the rise of the RMB (Chinese currency) may interfere with this convenient source of profit for the American government as the dominant currency, so maybe the imposition of such global measures is to pre-empt/slowdown that rise. I understand that the PIGS and China are thinking about a common currency. A theorist argues that currency, like language, is used the more it's used leading to domination accruing advantage.

Only heard about seigniorage for the first time last night at my economics club meeting; maybe I've got the wrong "take" on it.

don't mix up "PIGS" with "BRICS" and refrain from spreading fairy tales like a BRICS common currency.

in favour of your "economics club" i am assuming you have totally misinterpreted what was lectured there yesterday evening

Ooops, you're absolutely right! I meant BRICS...not meaning to spread fairy tales. It was mentioned in passing that Brazil, along with other Bric countries, and China were thinking trading in other than $US/or an agreed on currency, which I found interesting. Sorry if I put wrong acronym and/or connotation on what I thought it meant.

[55Jay]

Got the treatment today at KrungSi. Even though I'm a registered Americano with 3 accounts, and they made a copy of my US passport again, still had to fill out the questionnaire to determine if I am a Yank or not. Kept a copy of their internal document. Glad I had my reading goggles on me.

FWIW, I did send off inquiries to BAY and BKB HQs asking for a summary of their document protection and destruction policy, W9s in particular.

BKB sent an email back today saying they've routed my request to the correct department head (Ollie North), expect answer in 2 days.

Nothing from BAY but the branch manager told me today they hold docs on site for 6-12 months, including all those passport copies (yes, I asked) then courier to main office for destruction. Wasn't entirely clear how but she made a feeding motion with her hands and a humming noise.

[Pib]

Jay,

Yeap, when opening an account with Krungsri about a month ago in addition to the typical account opening forms that was one of the two forms I had to fill out caused by FATCA. The other one was the W-9 IRS form. I expect each Thai bank will have its own unique FATCA form...but based on other posts it seems the W-9 form is being used as the standard form to collect/document your social security number. The bank rep pulled out these two forms when seeing my U.S. passport. After filling out all the forms, I had my passbook, debit card, and ibanking user ID/password.

Pib

[55Jay]

Jay,

Yeap, when opening an account with Krungsri about a month ago in addition to the typical account opening forms that was one of the two forms I had to fill out caused by FATCA. The other one was the W-9 IRS form. I expect each Thai bank will have its own unique FATCA form...but based on other posts it seems the W-9 form is being used as the standard form to collect/document your social security number. The bank rep pulled out these two forms when seeing my U.S. passport. After filling out all the forms, I had my passbook, debit card, and ibanking user ID/password.

Pib

I saw that so I armed myself with my Mrs. for the bank visit today to smooth over my language barrier. It's a really small branch, I've never seen another foreigner in there and the manager did say I was her first FATCA case. Poor thing got me first time out. LOL.

[Pib]

Jay,

Yeap, when opening an account with Krungsri about a month ago in addition to the typical account opening forms that was one of the two forms I had to fill out caused by FATCA. The other one was the W-9 IRS form. I expect each Thai bank will have its own unique FATCA form...but based on other posts it seems the W-9 form is being used as the standard form to collect/document your social security number. The bank rep pulled out these two forms when seeing my U.S. passport. After filling out all the forms, I had my passbook, debit card, and ibanking user ID/password.

Pib

I saw that so I armed myself with my Mrs. for the bank visit today to smooth over my language barrier. It's a really small branch, I've never seen another foreigner in there and the manager did say I was her first FATCA case. Poor thing got me first time out. LOL.

Another bank representive loses their FATCA virginity...I hope you can live with yourself.

[55Jay]

Jay,

Yeap, when opening an account with Krungsri about a month ago in addition to the typical account opening forms that was one of the two forms I had to fill out caused by FATCA. The other one was the W-9 IRS form. I expect each Thai bank will have its own unique FATCA form...but based on other posts it seems the W-9 form is being used as the standard form to collect/document your social security number. The bank rep pulled out these two forms when seeing my U.S. passport. After filling out all the forms, I had my passbook, debit card, and ibanking user ID/password.

Pib

I saw that so I armed myself with my Mrs. for the bank visit today to smooth over my language barrier. It's a really small branch, I've never seen another foreigner in there and the manager did say I was her first FATCA case. Poor thing got me first time out. LOL.

Another bank representive loses their FATCA virginity...I hope you can live with yourself.

And she gave me a hummer too. Not bad for a first date.

[Senechal]

You have to remember that unlike all other democratic nations, the US government technically "owns" it's citizens. A citizen of the US is by all definitions "property" or "chattel". US citizens are obligated to pay a tithe to their "owner" no matter where they live in the world. Even if they try to give up their passports, they are still the owned property of their government in many cases, and must pay a portion of their income to their owners.

What is almost humorous is that America calls itself the "Land of the Free", when they are without question, the least "free" nation in the world in this respect. No other civilized, developed democracy treats it's citizenry as owned property -- a "tax farm" to be reaped regardless of residence.

What's disturbing is that this is done under the guise of "security" -- which has always been the historically standard excuse for repealing freedoms and oppressing citizenry. All Americans are considered potential terrorists, and as such (remarkably) all citizens must then subject themselves to tax oppression even if they leave the country, do no business in the country and never set foot in the country for the rest of their lives. A more compelling definition of "ownership" would be hard to find. It's a disturbing state of affairs to say the least.

[meand]

You have to remember that unlike all other democratic nations, the US government technically "owns" it's citizens. A citizen of the US is by all definitions "property" or "chattel". US citizens are obligated to pay a tithe to their "owner" no matter where they live in the world. Even if they try to give up their passports, they are still the owned property of their government in many cases, and must pay a portion of their income to their owners.

What is almost humorous is that America calls itself the "Land of the Free", when they are without question, the least "free" nation in the world in this respect. No other civilized, developed democracy treats it's citizenry as owned property -- a "tax farm" to be reaped regardless of residence.

What's disturbing is that this is done under the guise of "security" -- which has always been the historically standard excuse for repealing freedoms and oppressing citizenry. All Americans are considered potential terrorists, and as such (remarkably) all citizens must then subject themselves to tax oppression even if they leave the country, do no business in the country and never set foot in the country for the rest of their lives. A more compelling definition of "ownership" would be hard to find. It's a disturbing state of affairs to say the least.

I would agree with most if that. The land of the free mantra came before 911, and I would argue it was much closer to the truth then. Maybe we need to replace it with something catchy: land of the scrutinized. I don't know I'm not very creative. I have always made fun of land of the free too, seeing as I can't even hop on a plane from Florida to Cuba. I'm free? Haha.

One thing I will add, is that I find us tax policy much less daunting while inside the us where I am personally accustomed to making higher wages. It's when you leave the country and try to move funds back that things really get entangling. "You have 15,000 dollars on you, why on earth are you moving so much money". Lol.

I was Laughing the other night watching the admittedly horrendous Americas got talent. The winner, whom I thought was deserving btw lol, earned 1 million US dollars. I'm not accountant, but with that income I'd figure he gets about 500k take home after taxes. I was just looking at some small condo prices.... 200k for a small one bedroom in a decent part of town was bare minimum. And red flags are raised when we take 10k out of a bank account lol. If that isn't a horrendous crock, I'm not sure what is.

Money is pretty much illegal nowadays. If you move it or do anything with it you are seriously guilty until you give them some sort of feasible answer. And "umm, I need to buy things" doesn't work for some odd reason lol.

[JimGant]

No other civilized, developed democracy treats it's citizenry as owned property -- a "tax farm" to be reaped regardless of residence.

Well, the dual taxation treaties the US has with Thailand, and most other developed countries, allows for the country of residence to have taxation priority (except for some categories of income, like government pensions). Yes, a US citizen still has to file his US tax return of worldwide income (so called "savings clause"); but, he's allowed a tax credit to preclude double taxation. So, the US is not reaping taxes regardless of residence.

But Thailand doesn't require me to file a tax return, since my income is derived from outside Thailand -- and officially brought into Thailand not in the year earned. But if this changed, and I had to file Thai taxes, a quick glance says my taxes would now be higher, since my Thai tax bill would exceed my US taxes. (US taxes, compared with the rest of the world, are not that high. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26327114 )

So what? Well, maybe this will change, as Thailand is sure losing a lot of taxes with this "not in year earned" clause. Discussion on this, here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/738836-is-pension-income-subject-to-thai-income-taxcontinued/

So, expats here not paying taxes in their homeland, may suddenly wake up to having to pay taxes in Thailand on monies brought into Thailand. But, as one said in the above link, he'd rather pay taxes in Thailand rather than back home, as it would be cheaper. True for most Europeans -- but not, as said, for Yanks (again, that BBC link, above).

Thus, if Thailand changes things, the dual taxation treaty will protect Americans from the US tax bite. And for those countries not taxing their citizens -- their dual taxation treaties are irrelevant, since without any dual taxation issue, Thailand gets it all (except for certain treaty exempted income).

Fair is fair. Country of residence gets the tax money from those enjoying its services. If a country of residence, with a tax treaty with the US, doesn't tax US citizens residing there -- well, the US picks up the slack. But, beside the example of Thailand, this is a rare occurence.

"Tax farm?" Naaaaaaa.

[JimGant]

Money is pretty much illegal nowadays. If you move it or do anything with it you are seriously guilty until you give them some sort of feasible answer. And "umm, I need to buy things" doesn't work for some odd reason lol.

Huh? I just moved $30,000 (ACH) to Thailand, no questions asked -- just 15 seconds of keystrokes on my USAA account. Someday, if the wife dies and I want to repatriate to the US, getting the proceeds from property sales back to the US is what I worry about. This is not a US problem -- but one from the Thai end.

A lot of militia minded dialogue by US expats on this forum. I hope such dialogue is in the minority, and that most of us Yanks are here because we love Thailand (many from Vietnam War days), and not that we hate America....

[55Jay]

Money is pretty much illegal nowadays. If you move it or do anything with it you are seriously guilty until you give them some sort of feasible answer. And "umm, I need to buy things" doesn't work for some odd reason lol.

Huh? I just moved $30,000 (ACH) to Thailand, no questions asked -- just 15 seconds of keystrokes on my USAA account. Someday, if the wife dies and I want to repatriate to the US, getting the proceeds from property sales back to the US is what I worry about. This is not a US problem -- but one from the Thai end.

A lot of militia minded dialogue by US expats on this forum. I hope such dialogue is in the minority, and that most of us Yanks are here because we love Thailand (many from Vietnam War days), and not that we hate America....

I've also noted an increase in non-US expats on this forum using the same sort of dialogue but, like my government, I pigeon hole them as crazy train militia minorities that hate America and they simply dissolve into the white noise.

[55Jay]

Krungsi rogered up. Still nothing back from Ollie North over at Bangkok Bank but I expect (and hope) for a similar response.

From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 1:28 PM
Subject: Replied message from Krungsri Call Center

Dear Mr.,

Thank you for your enquiries.

Bank of Ayudhya PLC.(the Bank) is strongly committed to protect our customer's data. Your W 9 Form was obtained for the purpose of US FATCA requirements only. No unauthorized persons would be allowed to have access to the customer's W 9 form and other sensitive information. Should the information of customer is no longer needed, it would be disposed under close supervision of authorized persons.

Best Regards,

Krungsri Call Center 1572
Customer Service Department
Bank of Ayudhya PCL.

[KhunBENQ]

Yup, me too at SCB last week. No issue really, tick 'no' everywhere and sign.

Yep. As far as I remember it was not much more than stating that I am NOT a US citizen and not liable for tax in USA?

Edited September 29, 2014 by KhunBENQ

[Senechal]

Money is pretty much illegal nowadays. If you move it or do anything with it you are seriously guilty until you give them some sort of feasible answer. And "umm, I need to buy things" doesn't work for some odd reason lol.

Huh? I just moved $30,000 (ACH) to Thailand, no questions asked -- just 15 seconds of keystrokes on my USAA account. Someday, if the wife dies and I want to repatriate to the US, getting the proceeds from property sales back to the US is what I worry about. This is not a US problem -- but one from the Thai end.

A lot of militia minded dialogue by US expats on this forum. I hope such dialogue is in the minority, and that most of us Yanks are here because we love Thailand (many from Vietnam War days), and not that we hate America....

A lot of "militia minded dialogue"?

Oh please. What a douche. Because people are critical of the USA being qualitatively less free than every other democracy with respect to taxation, we're suddenly a "militia"?

(And if you think I'm being rude, I didn't accuse those criticizing tax-policy of being a "militia".)

Never been accused of hating America by anyone until just now. Please put away your flag, Biff, before you hurt yourself with it. Perhaps you'd feel safer fending off critics with a taser and some pepper spray?

You're clearly inexperienced moving money around the world if you've never had a wire frozen for "security" reasons, and had to answer questions about your life, the source of the funds, the destination of the funds and the nature of your business. Happens all. the. time.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Senechal

[Asiantravel]

You have to remember that unlike all other democratic nations, the US government technically "owns" it's citizens. A citizen of the US is by all definitions "property" or "chattel". US citizens are obligated to pay a tithe to their "owner" no matter where they live in the world. Even if they try to give up their passports, they are still the owned property of their government in many cases, and must pay a portion of their income to their owners.

What is almost humorous is that America calls itself the "Land of the Free", when they are without question, the least "free" nation in the world in this respect. No other civilized, developed democracy treats it's citizenry as owned property -- a "tax farm" to be reaped regardless of residence.

What's disturbing is that this is done under the guise of "security" -- which has always been the historically standard excuse for repealing freedoms and oppressing citizenry. All Americans are considered potential terrorists, and as such (remarkably) all citizens must then subject themselves to tax oppression even if they leave the country, do no business in the country and never set foot in the country for the rest of their lives. A more compelling definition of "ownership" would be hard to find. It's a disturbing state of affairs to say the least.

" What is almost humorous is that America calls itself the "Land of the Free", when they are without question, the least "free" nation in the world in this respect "

No, America isn’t Communist. It’s only 70% Communist.

Remember, Karl Marx thought central banking was a great idea—the same guy who thought that individual success and private property were evil.Between the IRS bullying of political opposition groups and the imposition of exit taxes for those that renounce their citizenship, the United States is firmly set up to discourage dissent and escape. Check.

http://www.sovereignman.com/trends/no-america-isnt-communist-its-only-70-communist-15088/

[meand]

Money is pretty much illegal nowadays. If you move it or do anything with it you are seriously guilty until you give them some sort of feasible answer. And "umm, I need to buy things" doesn't work for some odd reason lol.

Huh? I just moved $30,000 (ACH) to Thailand, no questions asked -- just 15 seconds of keystrokes on my USAA account. Someday, if the wife dies and I want to repatriate to the US, getting the proceeds from property sales back to the US is what I worry about. This is not a US problem -- but one from the Thai end.

A lot of militia minded dialogue by US expats on this forum. I hope such dialogue is in the minority, and that most of us Yanks are here because we love Thailand (many from Vietnam War days), and not that we hate America....

I was maybe speaking too generally. I don't move much money usa to Thailand, but know that whenever you take out more than 10k USD (a very paltry amount) out of a bank, it is almost as if I am breaking the law. I am glad you have so much luck though. But, then you admit you may have trouble moving your money back. And moving cash is even more difficult. To each their own, you don't agree and that's fine I suppose.

I for one don't think cash or money in any form should be "suspicious" in ANY way. We earn it everyday, it is something we all have, so moving it should be a perfectly reasonable behavior. Authorities have trouble catching certain people, and they have used that as leverage for violating our rights and invading our privacy unduly.

Edited September 30, 2014 by meand