Asian suspects raped English tourist

[LanceGringo]

It's not really all that surprising that the Thai police were unwilling to consider that perhaps a Thai person was responsible for the murders - after all, this is the most idiotic police force in the world we're talking about.

[realenglish1]

With all the bantering going on everyone has lost slight of what is really important . Just nail the scum and give them the death penalty .

This is the worst crime someone can commit on another

No room in the global community for scum like this PERIOD

[lostinisaan]

The latest discovery has now enabled the police to narrow their investigation to focus on specific groups, migrant workers and local Thai people

Glad that they didn't mention us.....

[iReason]

But... police said a thai would never commit such crime?

.

Sorry mate, you're twisting words.

No one said Thais would never commit such a crime.

What was said is: "can't BELIEVE a Thai would commit such a horrible crime"

can't believe.jpg

"On arriving the day after the murders, the senior police officer on the island assured us the culprit could not have been a Thai person."

"No Thai could possibly commit such a crime, he said, forgetting the equally ghastly murder of Welsh tourist Katherine Horton in 2006, by, it turned out, two Thai fishermen."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29262496

One senior officer told the BBC he did not believe a Thai person could have committed such a crime.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29217490

www.vip2.co.uk

http://www.samuitimes.com/

……

and an other 20 links from the BKKPost to ThaiVisa

Same, I never believed I ever would have a motorbike accident - but I did.

I never believed my son would pass A levels - but he did

and I never believed I would spend most of my life in Thailand - but I am.

Once upon a time I believed in Santa Claus, I believed in Easter Bunnies and ghosts under my bed but .....

Big difference between "a" senior officer and "the" senior officer.

And; "No Thai could possibly commit such a crime, he said."

Patronizing punter...

[Mzungu]

[inwardglee]

I agree that all of this in the forum now looks like an ugly discussion. Yet it is also understandable that the participants suffer with the victims and each one seeks an explanation.

Numerous bashing here of insiders towards local authorities hints at some frustration. It has not always been like that. Times change …

I say again: DNA testing can not prove someone is Caucasian or East Asian … There is only 0.01 percent of genes that account for some racial features, so races are more a social concept than a genetical one …

[Smurkster]

I hope that this incident is told screaming from the top of the highest mountain...There is an element of aggression amongst a large amount of the population

people who wear rose colored glasses about Thailand could wake up and realize this isn't the tropical "Kindness peoples" paradise that they so love to think it is....

plus it is also in the top 10 countries for sexual assault like this throughout the world....god there are so many more places I would vacation to first before coming here....

I can't imagine how the family feels right now...lots of emotion, the least of which is probably anger and frustration at the way the authorities are dealing with this situation

[BangkokHank]

I'm not sure about the fisherman theory, aren't they all out at sea working at night anyway ? I've no idea what time they come back to shore though...sunrise ?

The likely theory to me is a local "big" guy losing face in the bar, the farang not knowing how to handle it properly and the Thai guy out to get him and the girl later on. It makes more sense in terms of motive than some random fishermen or migrant workers pouncing on them and taking it to the extreme they did. I still believe a big part of this hangs on what did or didn't happen in that bar and there must have been a fair few witnesses, so where are they ?

I agree with your theory, SPB65. Piecing together things that I've read on various threads on this case, here are my thoughts:

What I find hard to imagine is that someone would have killed these two young people so brutally without any motive. There was hate in the actions of these murderers - way beyond what might have been necessary to simply silence witnesses to a rape or a theft. To me, the brutality of the murders suggests that the murderers had a prior encounter with their victims, for which they wanted to make the victims "pay".

It has already been mentioned by others that the victims had an unpleasant encounter with a Thai man earlier in the evening when David intervened to protect Hannah from this man's unwanted attention. Anyone who has lived in Thailand long enough knows what the reaction of a Thai male would likely be in this situation, especially if he were a big shot not used to hearing "no".: He would seek revenge - later - with the help of friends. This man wanted to make David pay - for having prevented him from having the girl of his choice - on HIS island, or at the very least in HIS country. And he wanted to show both David and Hannah that he could have Hannah, if only by force.

Like you, SPB65, I am bewildered that the police do not appear to be pursuing such an obvious line of inquiry. As you said, there must have been lots of witnesses to the encounter in the bar. One possible explanation is that the murderer is indeed the son of an influential person on the island, and, in exchange for a lot of money, the police have been instructed to "play dumb" - something that their reputation makes it easy for them to do without raising suspicion. (Remember the case of the Red Bull heir who even managed to get away with killing a policeman?! In Thailand, money can get the police to look the other way.)

There is also the matter of "face" for Thailand as a country: It is clear that the powers-that-be are desperate to show that this crime was not committed by Thais - out of fear of loss of tourism revenue.

So I'm afraid that the only way this crime is going to be solved is when not solving it becomes more costly to the police (and the country) than solving it.

[a99az]

They could now trace the person who had sex with her. But does that make him the killer?

[Smurkster]

"Police say they are looking for three westerners who were seen playing a guitar near the scene on Koh Tao's Sairee beach."

A group of Burmese migrants who were interviewed by police after bloodstains were found on their clothes have also been eliminated from inquiries. No matches were found between them and DNA found on Witheridge and a cigarette butt at the scene."

Which makes it seem like the authorities are desperately trying to conclude that it wasn't a Thai culprit

[Smurkster]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I hope that this incident is told screaming from the top of the highest mountain...There is an element of aggression amongst a large amount of the population

people who wear rose colored glasses about Thailand could wake up and realize this isn't the tropical "Kindness peoples" paradise that they so love to think it is....

plus it is also in the top 10 countries for sexual assault like this throughout the world....god there are so many more places I would vacation to first before coming here....

I can't imagine how the family feels right now...lots of emotion, the least of which is probably anger and frustration at the way the authorities are dealing with this situation

Nobody will harm you in thailand as long as you follow the rules. The killed persons obviously didn't do that and now it's thailands fault?

The general Prayuth does his best to reform the country , give him a chance. And don't come here if you don't like the way things go.

Go to Indonesia or Malaysia, it's the same there though. So better go to Spain and have sex as much as you like in public. Or go to hedonism resort in Jamaica if you have guts.

I see loads of sexpats coming here to abuse girls 40 years younger then themselves, oh it's so bad here. They way they look they would have to pay a fortune to get laid in the UK.

Oh, so now we are blaming the victims for their brutal murder? That's some screwed up thinking...

[poweratradio]

Maybe he could get a little more definitive results from the world expert analysts compared to the local staff who have neither the depth of training, experience or equipment. It bemuses me that Thais do not understand how far they are behind the world scientifically.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

AND your genius comment comes from what serious investigative work and knowledge resources???????

[JarekN]

This whole story looks like a script out of a comedy... SAD! Assuming that they do find the killers chances are that they'll get off very easily as in most casees... Thailand doesn't give a FLYING F about you or anyone else, all they care about is money, the crimes against tourist will keep on happening because they know that tourists are stupid and will keep on coming back over and over. In Cuba crime against tourist will result in the criminal disappearing and for this reason it is an insanely safe place for tourists, maybe the Thais should look to Cuba and learn something...

[Leila30]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Koh Tao suspects 'Asian men'

THAILAND: The DNA found in a victim's body in the Koh Tao double murder belonged to two Asian men, according to deputy police chief Pol Gen Somyot Poompanmoung.

The test results from the semen found in the female victim's body indicated the suspects were Mongoloid and not Caucasian.

The results helped narrow down the search, said Pol Gen Somyot, who will become the national police chief on October 1.

Two Britons, Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, were found dead on a beach on Koh Tao in Surat Thani province with severe head injuries on Monday morning (September 15).

Earlier, the autopsy on Ms Witheridge found semen from two people but subsequent DNA tests found no matches to any of the seven people detained — six Myanmar labourers and one Briton — shortly after the murders.

A cigarette butt found near the bodies on Friday (September 19) contained the DNA of Ms Witheridge and another person. It was believed the second person was someone she knew because the cigarette was shared.

Pol Gen Somyot was in Koh Tao earlier today (September 20) to follow up on the investigation.

He said that after the reconstruction of the crime scene on Friday, the case had progressed and the police had not ruled out anyone. Officers even took DNA samples of more than 20 local women, British media reported.

People on the island from tourists to fishermen and workers are being investigated, he said.

Police on Friday asked the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to help with DNA testing to identify racial markers but they later cancelled the request after succeeding in conducting the tests.

-- Phuket News 2014-09-20

"A cigarette butt found near the bodies on Friday (September 19) contained the DNA of Ms Witheridge and another person. It was believed the second person was someone she knew because the cigarette was shared"

Considering the remote location the bodies were found (away from the other party makers) the above for me would be the DNA of a person of considerable interest as it would be likely they would have been at the crime scene.

It seems a lot of people posting on this forum has never been to Koh Tao or Sairee Beach. The place they were found is not at all remote, people walk past next to and above this place all the time. And there's a hostel right above from which you can see down the beach (however not well in the dark I would guess). It's also fairly well known to "everyone" as somewhere to go if you want some "privacy" during a party at the beach (not at all saying this was what happened!).

That it doesn't seem like anyone has heard them scream is a point I hope the police has noticed (at least I haven't seen any comments on how people have heard screams) - as they would have been heard by many people around that area.

[artodeeto]

I know this is a common style, but couln't help notice the resemblance.
http://imgur.com/XtZcYhr

Edited September 20, 2014 by artodeeto

[mikiea]

"Mongoloid" is at the top of asian blood line. It is the oldest & sets the standard. You can from there, truely find out which "asian" you are looking for. Thai,Chinese, ect.

[Leila30]

Big surprise!

What is perhaps a bigger surprise is where this scientific expertise suddenly came from in Thailand.

Out of it's thoroughness, though, comes something unsurprising. Noting the point about mongoloid, Thai police are now hunting for an eskimo, possibly three eskimos.

I saw on Sky News here in UK that the DNA samples had been sent to Singapore for testing, and that's how they reached this result.

[Chutney]

I'm not sure about the fisherman theory, aren't they all out at sea working at night anyway ? I've no idea what time they come back to shore though...sunrise ?

The likely theory to me is a local "big" guy losing face in the bar, the farang not knowing how to handle it properly and the Thai guy out to get him and the girl later on. It makes more sense in terms of motive than some random fishermen or migrant workers pouncing on them and taking it to the extreme they did. I still believe a big part of this hangs on what did or didn't happen in that bar and there must have been a fair few witnesses, so where are they ?

I agree with your theory, SPB65. Piecing together things that I've read on various threads on this case, here are my thoughts:

What I find hard to imagine is that someone would have killed these two young people so brutally without any motive. There was hate in the actions of these murderers - way beyond what might have been necessary to simply silence witnesses to a rape or a theft. To me, the brutality of the murders suggests that the murderers had a prior encounter with their victims, for which they wanted to make the victims "pay".

It has already been mentioned by others that the victims had an unpleasant encounter with a Thai man earlier in the evening when David intervened to protect Hannah from this man's unwanted attention. Anyone who has lived in Thailand long enough knows what the reaction of a Thai male would likely be in this situation, especially if he were a big shot not used to hearing "no".: He would seek revenge - later - with the help of friends. This man wanted to make David pay - for having prevented him from having the girl of his choice - on HIS island, or at the very least in HIS country. And he wanted to show both David and Hannah that he could have Hannah, if only by force.

Like you, SPB65, I am bewildered that the police do not appear to be pursuing such an obvious line of inquiry. As you said, there must have been lots of witnesses to the encounter in the bar. One possible explanation is that the murderer is indeed the son of an influential person on the island, and, in exchange for a lot of money, the police have been instructed to "play dumb" - something that their reputation makes it easy for them to do without raising suspicion. (Remember the case of the Red Bull heir who even managed to get away with killing a policeman?! In Thailand, money can get the police to look the other way.)

There is also the matter of "face" for Thailand as a country: It is clear that the powers-that-be are desperate to show that this crime was not committed by Thais - out of fear of loss of tourism revenue.

So I'm afraid that the only way this crime is going to be solved is when not solving it becomes more costly to the police (and the country) than solving it.

Completely agree with this in all respects. Well summed up without hyperbole.

Furthermore wtnesses of what happened at the bar and possible details of when the victims left ( together or seperately) will be very nervous about speaking up in consideration of their own safety. There may well be much more information emerging once people have got themselves safely out of there.

[Gecko123]

Do the people on this thread who are second guessing the police at every turn do the same thing whenever there is a crime committed back in their home country? I doubt it.

It really strikes me that there is an element of racism in play here when people who obviously have no background in law enforcement or criminal investigations think they are automatically smarter than the local police.

This crime occurred approx. one week ago. To my eye the investigation has been progressing at about the same pace as one might expect a similar investigation in the US or Great Britain to progress.

I just think the police deserve more credit and respect than they are being shown on this website.

Just my two cents.

To respond to responses received to the above post:

TransAm: "How long have you lived here?"

I've lived here 11 years. Before that visited Thailand 6 times begining in 1986 (approx 1 month each time). Have had only incidental contact with Thai police during my stay here. Have never paid a bribe to a police officer or felt I was treated unfairly by the police here.

English Oak: "Are you joking?"

No, I'm not joking.

Khunpa: "Seriously, are you OK?"

Seriously, I'm fine. Thanks for asking.

Credo: "Pace of investigation is debatable."

In the week which has passed since the murders, the Thai police have cleared several suspects, conducted DNA screenings of additional suspects, called in additional investigative resources (forensic teams), reviewed CCTV footage, etc. When I compare the progress on this case with other high profile cases in the US, I feel the pace is about the same, if not faster.

Comparators: Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Susan Smith, OJ Simpson, Zodiac Killer, Boston Strangler, Green River Killer, Ted Bundy, Unabomber, Meredith Kercher, Jonbenet Ramsey, et al.

P.S. I have read in the press that the police very quickly suspected a local person might be involved because the murder weapon was a hoe, not readily accessible to a tourist.

P.P.S. When I read all these posts from people who seem to have a permanent hard-on for cops, I can only wonder whether there is any truth to whether Thailand is a haven for criminal types.

Some of you wanna be hard asses need to cut back on watching quite so many Sons of Anarchy re-runs, and let the police do their job.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Gecko123

[namdocmai]

30 years ago the Brits were the most prude Europeans of all. Now they all like to get pissed and hang it out every night.

Also the word "gentleman" came from Britain, where did they go?

You guys better look in the mirror instead of fingerpointing a third world country. How many more threads do we need on this topic?

[yougivemebaby]

But... police said a thai would never commit such crime?

Glad to see the Thai police didn't consider all suspects (including Thai). They wasted a LOT of time and it's likely the culprit is LOOOONG gone. Way to go BIB! Way to show em your skills.

[culicine]

This whole article is offensive in many ways..........

I am so very sorry for the families of the victims. R.I.P

The offensive term "Mongoloid" has also been used and I wonder why.

In modern English, the use of mongol (and related forms) is unacceptable

and is considered offensive.

Are you also offended by Caucasoid?

[Loptr]

I hope that this incident is told screaming from the top of the highest mountain...There is an element of aggression amongst a large amount of the population

people who wear rose colored glasses about Thailand could wake up and realize this isn't the tropical "Kindness peoples" paradise that they so love to think it is....

plus it is also in the top 10 countries for sexual assault like this throughout the world....god there are so many more places I would vacation to first before coming here....

I can't imagine how the family feels right now...lots of emotion, the least of which is probably anger and frustration at the way the authorities are dealing with this situation

Nobody will harm you in thailand as long as you follow the rules. The killed persons obviously didn't do that and now it's thailands fault?

The general Prayuth does his best to reform the country , give him a chance. And don't come here if you don't like the way things go.

Go to Indonesia or Malaysia, it's the same there though. So better go to Spain and have sex as much as you like in public. Or go to hedonism resort in Jamaica if you have guts.

I see loads of sexpats coming here to abuse girls 40 years younger then themselves, oh it's so bad here. They way they look they would have to pay a fortune to get laid in the UK.

Now the murdered tourists are at fault for not knowing the "rules"... So what are these "rules" and where are they so that naive tourists can find them, in your head?

You really are a piece of work...

[bangrak]

"Police say they are looking for three westerners who were seen playing a guitar near the scene on Koh Tao's Sairee beach."

A group of Burmese migrants who were interviewed by police after bloodstains were found on their clothes have also been eliminated from inquiries. No matches were found between them and DNA found on Witheridge and a cigarette butt at the scene."

Which makes it seem like the authorities are desperately trying to conclude that it wasn't a Thai culprit

Thought the story orginally want about three 'alien workers from Myanmar', now you quote about 'westerners'...? N.B. the three Burmese in question were apprehended and their DNA tested negative, when I'm correct. But I'm afraid you 'could be' right about avoiding at all cost to incriminate Thais.

[xray]

They could now trace the person who had sex with her. But does that make him the killer?

If she was raped, then it likely does make him (or them) the killer(s).

[lucaswallachia]

One thing to note is the guy that David shakes hands with on the CCTV is wearing black pants, and there are black pants with a belt among the clothing strewn on the beach near his body.

[Lukecan]

I have friends coming to visit me here next year...I have already decided that for there two week trip the only place in Thailand we are going to visit is Suvarnabhumi when I pick them up, from there it will be to Laos, Vietnam and Burma.....much more interesting anyway

Lol, intentional homicide rate is 3x higher in burma compared to Thailand.

[Smurkster]

They could now trace the person who had sex with her. But does that make him the killer?

If she was raped, then it likely does make him (or them) the killer(s).

My Uncle was a forensic detective in Toronto for 25 years, he is here right now...I ran this story by him and he said in 99.99999% of cases he has seen if there is a murder/rape the two crimes are committed by the same person..

[artodeeto]

Same same?

Edited September 20, 2014 by artodeeto

[lemonjelly]

One thing to note is the guy that David shakes hands with on the CCTV is wearing black pants, and there are black pants with a belt among the clothing strewn on the beach near his body.

what CCTV is this?.... link?