Asian suspects raped English tourist

[Strangebrew]

Just enhance image and you got him. But you knew that already.

[blu3]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

There's nothing to say that the police have not been investigating the events leading up to the murders in the background but such information has yet to make it into the public eye but finally the media are beginning to report on this.

I'm not always a huge fan of the hounding British press but it might take some perseverance on part of the likes of the Mirror to help keep the momentum going on this. I hope they keep hounding.

[media]

So: They know that there was more than 1 semen, assuming that there was 2 or 3 perps, There must be 2 or 3 Asian men that were all of a sudden missing after the crime ?

Also, Its a shame that the family of the murdered girl now have to learn that she was anally raped as well, thats going to be horrible for them.

[blu3]

So: They know that there was more than 1 semen, assuming that there was 2 or 3 perps, There must be 2 or 3 Asian men that were all of a sudden missing after the crime ?

This.

Regardless of whether they are Thais or migrants, if they live on the island and are suddenly missing then somebody is keeping secrets. Likewise if they are still on the island they likely are marked in some way by the assumed struggle. If not - I'd suspect they would still be acting shiftily and somebody might flag their behaviour.

[Bleacher Bum East]

I really deep down have great difficulty in understanding people of your ilk. Thai apologists are people who vent their disgust on their own kind ..... very strange indeed ..

ScotBkk:

I don't know what you mean by the term: 'Thai apologist.'

Is defending someone who you think is being unfairly criticized being an 'apologist?' I have presented an objective basis for my defense of the Thai police's performance. For me, the word 'apologist' suggests someone who blindly tries to defend something which doesn't deserve to be defended. I don't think that is the case here.

I do know, however, what the term "ethnocentric" means.

Ethnocentric: "holding the belief that one's own cultural tradition or racial group is superior to all others."

I think there are plenty of people on this forum - - like you - - who think it is their perogative to endlessly fault-find and critique Thais, Thai culture, Thai intelligence, Thai competency, Thai 'you-name-it' who are far more guilty of ethnocentric if not outright racist thinking than I will ever be guilty of being a Thai apologist. Since when is showing awareness, sensitivity and respect for cultural differences being an 'apologist?' Since when is the purpose of travel to criticize anything which doesn't meet our expectations?

We may share English as our mother tongue, but once you move beyond that I'm not sure how much we have in common. I feel more at home here than I ever felt living in the US, and a big part of my reason for moving here was to get away from people who think they are innately superior to other people.

I can appreciate that Thailand may not be everyone's cup of tea. But if it isn't, the solution isn't to endlessly bellyache about it in cyberspace. The solution is to go somewhere else where you feel more at home. That's what I did when I moved here. Maybe you should do the same and head back home.

Gecko - this is a murder investigation - a particularly brutal murder and rape of two young Brits. It is evident that the conduct of this investigation is less than 'professional', or up to state of the art standards used by Brits or Americans. It is a fact that the skill set of Thailand in this type of forensic analysis is lacking - that's not Thai-bashing, it's a true state of affairs, combined with their culture that prevents admitting failure. However, I support the view that to harangue and ridicule the Thai police is out of place, because this is how they handle such incidents in Thailand. Until there is a huge change in behavioural culture promoted by the government, it will remain the same ad infinitum. I'm saying that on the assumption that Thailand wants cultural change - I'm not sure that is true, and if it remains the same, we will see this type of investigation continue as before.

Sometimes haranguing and ridiculing is warranted and necessary---and if there were ever such a case then this is it.

Although I do believe that criticism should be constructive and proportional rather than simply inflammatory.

Encouragingly, there are voices in Thai society willing to harangue and ridicule in an effort to bring about change as well:

*link removed*

This editorial in the Bangkok Post today pretty much sums up what those criticizing the Thai police and government have been saying.

Hopefully, this tragic situation will bring about at least some incremental improvement in Thai police training and methodology, and government sensibilities.

But real change won't happen until the people who feel like they have something to lose by changing understand (or are made to understand) that they actually have much more to gain.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Scott
Link removed.

[tingtongtourist]

I really deep down have great difficulty in understanding people of your ilk. Thai apologists are people who vent their disgust on their own kind ..... very strange indeed ..

ScotBkk:

I don't know what you mean by the term: 'Thai apologist.'

Is defending someone who you think is being unfairly criticized being an 'apologist?' I have presented an objective basis for my defense of the Thai police's performance. For me, the word 'apologist' suggests someone who blindly tries to defend something which doesn't deserve to be defended. I don't think that is the case here.

I do know, however, what the term "ethnocentric" means.

Ethnocentric: "holding the belief that one's own cultural tradition or racial group is superior to all others."

I think there are plenty of people on this forum - - like you - - who think it is their perogative to endlessly fault-find and critique Thais, Thai culture, Thai intelligence, Thai competency, Thai 'you-name-it' who are far more guilty of ethnocentric if not outright racist thinking than I will ever be guilty of being a Thai apologist. Since when is showing awareness, sensitivity and respect for cultural differences being an 'apologist?' Since when is the purpose of travel to criticize anything which doesn't meet our expectations?

We may share English as our mother tongue, but once you move beyond that I'm not sure how much we have in common. I feel more at home here than I ever felt living in the US, and a big part of my reason for moving here was to get away from people who think they are innately superior to other people.

I can appreciate that Thailand may not be everyone's cup of tea. But if it isn't, the solution isn't to endlessly bellyache about it in cyberspace. The solution is to go somewhere else where you feel more at home. That's what I did when I moved here. Maybe you should do the same and head back home.

well said. I often wonder if we sticked to just being human beings instead of being obsessed about seperating cultures..how much less trouble we would all have...but hey, one guy that sing a song about that..they killed him..in the great culture they have!

One thing i laugh...

the guys you talk about..now they wanna stick together and be best buddies with their own people...they say it is us that forget where we come from..loose our culture..and we are thai apologists..

these are the same one who argue a few weeks ago in a thread about WHY should they not have to say hello or acknowledge another farangs existence when they are in thailand and walk past one of their own who smile or nod..they think you a nutter and look away and pretend you are not there!!

Now they wanna be buddy buddy and expect everyone to back them up.hahaha

sometimes you cant blaim the thais for thinkin we westerners are nuts..at least they back up their own in fight!

One must worry in thailand the other farang will join in and kick you in the head hahaha

[SteveFong]

[jspill]

This editorial in the Bangkok Post today pretty much sums up what those criticizing the Thai police and government have been saying.

That link may get removed as Bangkok Post articles can't be linked on ThaiVisa, but it's a great read, google 'Thai police are in a class of their own' to find it.

[SPB65]

Lets have a whip round and buy the investigators a set of Cluedo. They can get hands on experience and learn the concept of suspect elimination and keeping cards close to chest.

[iReason]

People with Downs Syndrome have been called mongoloid (small m) because of their features esp. eye and head shape, which because it's seen as stereo-typing or making fun of them based on looks is considered offensive.

Down, whose name is attached to the syndrome, called sufferers 'Mongoloid idiots' because (a) the condition reduces mental abilities and ( because of the vaguely Mongoloid appearance in Caucasoid cases. This term was a little unfair because most are imbeciles or morons, not idiots. The offensive use is actually when it is applied to people who don't suffer from the syndrome, and in that use it may be abbreviated to 'mongoloid', 'mongol' or even 'mong'.

Note that the word Mongoloid literally means 'of a Mongol form'.

Describing Mongoloid in its technical meanings as 'offensive' seems perverse.

usage: 1The terms Mongoloid, Negroid, Caucasoid, and Australoid were introduced by 19th-century anthropologists attempting to classify human racial types, but today they are recognized as having very limited validity as scientific categories. Although occasionally used when making broad generalizations about the world's populations, in most modern contexts they are potentially offensive, especially when used of individuals. Instead, the names of specific peoples or nationalities should be used wherever possible.

2The term mongol, or Mongoloid, was adopted in the late 19th century to refer to a person with Down syndrome, owing to the similarity of some of the physical symptoms of the disorder with the normal facial characteristics of eastern Asian people. The syndrome itself was thus called mongolism. In modern English, this use ofmongol(and related forms) is unacceptable and is considered offensive. In scientific, as well as in most general contexts, mongolismhas been replaced by the term Down syndrome (first recorded in the early 1960s).

Take it up with Oxford...

[Bleacher Bum East]

This editorial in the Bangkok Post today pretty much sums up what those criticizing the Thai police and government have been saying.

That link may get removed as Bangkok Post articles can't be linked on ThaiVisa, but it's a great read, google 'Thai police are in a class of their own' to find it.

Oops forgot ... thanks for reminding me.

Hopefully the moderator will just remove the link and not the entire comment--it's too late for me to edit myself.

[Number 3]

Sorry I still don't believe only two Thai sorry Asian men could do this to David who is around 6 2 or 3 I would suggest. Whilst also subduing Hannah. David is fit and quite muscular and would have done some damage to whoever has attacked him Coming at him from the side in the dark with a lump of wood may do it. But he would have had the ability to at least keep an oversight of two men. More than two certainty rings true for me.

Also in my experience Thai s will do these types of "follow ups" after losing face but always in gangs of 4 or 5. They know they are small and targeting a large farang guy would prepare them to have as many friends or family as they could round up.

[Gecko123]

I really deep down have great difficulty in understanding people of your ilk. Thai apologists are people who vent their disgust on their own kind ..... very strange indeed ..

ScotBkk:

I don't know what you mean by the term: 'Thai apologist.'

Is defending someone who you think is being unfairly criticized being an 'apologist?' I have presented an objective basis for my defense of the Thai police's performance. For me, the word 'apologist' suggests someone who blindly tries to defend something which doesn't deserve to be defended. I don't think that is the case here.

I do know, however, what the term "ethnocentric" means.

Ethnocentric: "holding the belief that one's own cultural tradition or racial group is superior to all others."

I think there are plenty of people on this forum - - like you - - who think it is their perogative to endlessly fault-find and critique Thais, Thai culture, Thai intelligence, Thai competency, Thai 'you-name-it' who are far more guilty of ethnocentric if not outright racist thinking than I will ever be guilty of being a Thai apologist. Since when is showing awareness, sensitivity and respect for cultural differences being an 'apologist?' Since when is the purpose of travel to criticize anything which doesn't meet our expectations?

We may share English as our mother tongue, but once you move beyond that I'm not sure how much we have in common. I feel more at home here than I ever felt living in the US, and a big part of my reason for moving here was to get away from people who think they are innately superior to other people.

I can appreciate that Thailand may not be everyone's cup of tea. But if it isn't, the solution isn't to endlessly bellyache about it in cyberspace. The solution is to go somewhere else where you feel more at home. That's what I did when I moved here. Maybe you should do the same and head back home.

I also feel more at home here in Thailand than I do back in the U.S.

That being said, I totally disagree with what seems to be the premise of your comments.

Basically, you have transformed "America, love it or leave it" into "Thailand, love it or leave it."

Regardless of where you choose to live, there will be positive and negative aspects to the country, culture, local government, etc.

It is entirely possible to enjoy and appreciate the positive aspects of the place you choose to live while being aware and constructively critical of the negative aspects. They are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, I believe that if you choose to live somewhere long term, then engaging and contributing to the debate over the positive and negative shows much more respect for the local people than just sitting back and saying "it's their country they can do how they want, even if it's entirely self-destructive and harms the very people I claim to respect."

Yes, you do have to be open-minded and accepting that different cultures do things very differently, and that's not at all a bad thing even if it's not our way. "Listen and try to understand before commenting" is in my view always the best approach.

But you do not have to turn a blind-eye to something like the current debacle on Kho Tao. By any objective criteria, the police and government handling of this situation, from the local to the national level, has been totally incompetent and a complete farce. From the inability to secure the crime scene, to the conflicting and ever-changing statements being blurted out to the media, to the apparent refusal to even consider (initially at least) an entire category of likely suspects--i.e. local Thais, etc. etc., this has made the country you imply we should all either accept as is or go somewhere else look extremely bad, and for very good reason.

This has serious detrimental effects on the country and culture we have chosen to live in, which mainly harms our Thai friends.

I care about that.

And no, my revulsion at how this has been handled does not mean I should go find somewhere else to live. It means I want the country where I have chosen to stay to do better--much more for its own sake than for mine.

One caveat to what I've just said: I believe there is a line of cynicism and bitterness that many ex-pats cross where they no longer, if they ever did, have the ability to think with an open mind about the culture where they have chosen to live, and do indeed endlessly complain about what they see as the negative aspects without acknowledging any of the positive, or appreciating that different cultures do some things different ways and most often that's fine. And I agree that many on Thai Visa have gone way over that line. But in this instance, most of the criticism is well-deserved.

I do not take exception with most of the points made in your well-written post.

I do take sharp exception to the inference that most of the free-for-all fault finding on this thread is being done constructively in the name of trying to improve police services in Thailand.

Many of the same critics here continually pop up on forum after forum leaping to complain about Thailand at every opportunity which presents itself. While I agree that foreigners can sometimes bring a helpful perspective to a problem, very few of the comments on this thread fall under the banner of constructive criticism. At some point, given that no one put a gun to anyone's head to force anyone to live here, the question does need to be asked, 'Why not leave?"

[jaidam]

Sorry I still don't believe only two Thai sorry Asian men could do this to David who is around 6 2 or 3 I would suggest. Whilst also subduing Hannah. David is fit and quite muscular and would have done some damage to whoever has attacked him Coming at him from the side in the dark with a lump of wood may do it. But he would have had the ability to at least keep an oversight of two men. More than two certainty rings true for me.

Also in my experience Thai s will do these types of "follow ups" after losing face but always in gangs of 4 or 5. They know they are small and targeting a large farang guy would prepare them to have as many friends or family as they could round up.

Your theory that a local lost face and had to call in re-enforcements is interesting. It would certainly be worth somebody(except local Koh Tao poice!) checking the cellphone records of all calls sent/received on the island and in particular in the south Sairee vicinity between 1am and 5am on Koh Tao assuming such a task is possible. There may have been a flurry of calls as the murderer called his mates to propose his plan.

[Number 3]

Sorry I still don't believe only two Thai sorry Asian men could do this to David who is around 6 2 or 3 I would suggest. Whilst also subduing Hannah. David is fit and quite muscular and would have done some damage to whoever has attacked him Coming at him from the side in the dark with a lump of wood may do it. But he would have had the ability to at least keep an oversight of two men. More than two certainty rings true for me.

Also in my experience Thai s will do these types of "follow ups" after losing face but always in gangs of 4 or 5. They know they are small and targeting a large farang guy would prepare them to have as many friends or family as they could round up.

Your theory that a local lost face and had to call in re-enforcements is interesting. It would certainly be worth somebody(except local Koh Tao poice!) checking the cellphone records of all calls sent/received on the island and in particular in the south Sairee vicinity between 1am and 5am on Koh Tao assuming such a task is possible. There may have been a flurry of calls as the murderer called his mates to propose his plan.

Exactly. A possibility not a fact but it s all only about possibilities at this stage. Not any CCTV footage have I seen Hannah and David together. One lovely Thai could have talked Hannah into looking at the beautiful beach setting at night time led her to his friends waiting and David either heard her screams and jumped down to help as he was clearly out and about and looks very sober to me as his walk doesn't seem to be impaired. Or some Thai s have pulled him down saying there's a problem and he needs to come and help I have read that he was a very noble young man and his peers looked up to him for this character trait and others of course.

[timewilltell]

Maybe he could get a little more definitive results from the world expert analysts compared to the local staff who have neither the depth of training, experience or equipment. It bemuses me that Thais do not understand how far they are behind the world scientifically.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Does it also bemuse you that Thailand has a university in the top 50 for pharmacology and social science (that's the top 0.2% in the world), top 100 for medicine, life science, bio-medicine and chemical engineering and top 150 for chemistry and earth science? That is out of all the 22,000 universities in the world. Do you have a degree from a world class university?

I have a degree from the University of Leeds in Civil Engineering if it helps you. If you are trying to make the point that Thailand's universities are on a par with the best in the world then I will have to disagree although it does have some excellent private hospitals which have a large percentage of foreign trained doctors and surgeons as well as excellent locally trained ones.

If they are so advanced why are they not in the forefront of inventions and discoveries because I have not noted many local Thai's trailblazing - have you?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[SirBser]

The police really screwed up this investigation...

So much evidence left the country etc, for example every person who was at AC bar should have been interviewed and given ANY photos they took at the bar that night to police.

So police could review the photos to see if anyone was sitting around the bar who was dodgy etc.

I see the police DNA all the Burmese handyman and women etc but why don't they DNA test the bar owners / hotel owners.

I've heard that the owner of AC bar is the village chief or district chief of sairee beach.

Edited September 21, 2014 by SirBser

[Smurkster]

Maybe he could get a little more definitive results from the world expert analysts compared to the local staff who have neither the depth of training, experience or equipment. It bemuses me that Thais do not understand how far they are behind the world scientifically.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Does it also bemuse you that Thailand has a university in the top 50 for pharmacology and social science (that's the top 0.2% in the world), top 100 for medicine, life science, bio-medicine and chemical engineering and top 150 for chemistry and earth science? That is out of all the 22,000 universities in the world. Do you have a degree from a world class university?

If they are so advanced why are they not in the forefront of inventions and discoveries because I have not noted many local Thai's trailblazing - have you?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Good point...How many Thais have won a Nobel Prize?

and I'm just putting this out there....

can anyone name ONE major contribution to the advancement of civilization/medicine/technology that has been pioneered by the Thai people? It's a question, if there is one, I'd love to know.....

Also, before coming to Thailand, I had never heard of any Thai universities being recognized as top tier...maybe in the region of Southeast Asia, but certainly not on a global scale

Edited September 21, 2014 by Smurkster

[jspill]

At some point, given that no one put a gun to anyone's head to force anyone to live here, the question does need to be asked, 'Why not leave?"

Life overall in a nanny state country back home would be even worse, and other SE Asian countries are worse. That and/or having dependants. It's ok to vent on a forum from time to time.

[kwak250]

I have been following this thread and must say there is so much speculation and complete drivel coming from so many who know so little .

Have a thought for the families before trying to guess what happened!

[pasak]

I reckon the english tabloid media will stay on this, it has all the morbid ingredients to sell papers. The mirror are already suggesting it was local gangsters and that the island residents know and won't speak up.. if the murderers have money and connections, no wonder the police have been focusing on burmese and western suspects...

Sadly already the BBC is void of articles on the recent issues, unless you count the PM's bikini comment.

My Thai wife was happy to let me know when the Brit was arrested but now the suspects look to be Asian she has gone all quite. As with us all, we hate to think it is one of our own that could have done this terrible thing.

Nonsense. If it was a Brit who had murdered and raped the most unfortunate couple, I would be among the first to support the severest punishment of that Brit.

However it is quite obvious to anyone with at least half a brain that it is a local who has done this AND that this type of thing is going on almost daily in Thailand.

The foreign media never ever get what is really going on here, in a political, an economic or in a social sense. Either their hacks are inept or they report with expediency.

The only way to reduce the number of future murders and rapes is to focus world attention on just how uncivilized and degenerate this country really is.

Then tourists might refrain from choosing Thailand as their holiday destination.

This would be one way of saving innocent lives.

[Adeeos]

Great work from the Thai police and forensic staff who working so hard to solve this crime. I praise all of the efforts that the Thai people are putting in each day and hour.

AGAIN with this?.. why is it you're so intent on defending these BUFFOONS in nearly every thread on this subject?... are you NOT actually reading what a complete MESS they've made of this?.. What position in the RTP are you exactly?.. my God man, READ the facts!

Edited September 21, 2014 by Adeeos

[Thai at Heart]

Today one girl from SPAIN was raped by a taxi driver after back to her hotel from her first night at Kao San Road.

With all the news about the murder of 2 brits the police is trying to mute all the bad things that are occurring in LOS. The police wanted the girl doesnt speak to the media by giving some nights on a good hotel close to the river.

If anyone think im a troll is ok but my source is family of the girl in Spain. Im giving this information to prevent any tourist to get a taxi atnight and specially women and doing it alone.

Unfortunately the girl was prety and as PM said last week. Prety woman wearing bikini are in dangerous...

That's is bad ..i haven't seen any news about. Not really safe

Very sorry to hear.

My wife never takes taxis alone in bangkok. Another dangerous activity that isn't explained to tourists.

[Bleacher Bum East]

I really deep down have great difficulty in understanding people of your ilk. Thai apologists are people who vent their disgust on their own kind ..... very strange indeed ..

ScotBkk:

I don't know what you mean by the term: 'Thai apologist.'

Is defending someone who you think is being unfairly criticized being an 'apologist?' I have presented an objective basis for my defense of the Thai police's performance. For me, the word 'apologist' suggests someone who blindly tries to defend something which doesn't deserve to be defended. I don't think that is the case here.

I do know, however, what the term "ethnocentric" means.

Ethnocentric: "holding the belief that one's own cultural tradition or racial group is superior to all others."

I think there are plenty of people on this forum - - like you - - who think it is their perogative to endlessly fault-find and critique Thais, Thai culture, Thai intelligence, Thai competency, Thai 'you-name-it' who are far more guilty of ethnocentric if not outright racist thinking than I will ever be guilty of being a Thai apologist. Since when is showing awareness, sensitivity and respect for cultural differences being an 'apologist?' Since when is the purpose of travel to criticize anything which doesn't meet our expectations?

We may share English as our mother tongue, but once you move beyond that I'm not sure how much we have in common. I feel more at home here than I ever felt living in the US, and a big part of my reason for moving here was to get away from people who think they are innately superior to other people.

I can appreciate that Thailand may not be everyone's cup of tea. But if it isn't, the solution isn't to endlessly bellyache about it in cyberspace. The solution is to go somewhere else where you feel more at home. That's what I did when I moved here. Maybe you should do the same and head back home.

I also feel more at home here in Thailand than I do back in the U.S.

That being said, I totally disagree with what seems to be the premise of your comments.

Basically, you have transformed "America, love it or leave it" into "Thailand, love it or leave it."

Regardless of where you choose to live, there will be positive and negative aspects to the country, culture, local government, etc.

It is entirely possible to enjoy and appreciate the positive aspects of the place you choose to live while being aware and constructively critical of the negative aspects. They are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, I believe that if you choose to live somewhere long term, then engaging and contributing to the debate over the positive and negative shows much more respect for the local people than just sitting back and saying "it's their country they can do how they want, even if it's entirely self-destructive and harms the very people I claim to respect."

Yes, you do have to be open-minded and accepting that different cultures do things very differently, and that's not at all a bad thing even if it's not our way. "Listen and try to understand before commenting" is in my view always the best approach.

But you do not have to turn a blind-eye to something like the current debacle on Kho Tao. By any objective criteria, the police and government handling of this situation, from the local to the national level, has been totally incompetent and a complete farce. From the inability to secure the crime scene, to the conflicting and ever-changing statements being blurted out to the media, to the apparent refusal to even consider (initially at least) an entire category of likely suspects--i.e. local Thais, etc. etc., this has made the country you imply we should all either accept as is or go somewhere else look extremely bad, and for very good reason.

This has serious detrimental effects on the country and culture we have chosen to live in, which mainly harms our Thai friends.

I care about that.

And no, my revulsion at how this has been handled does not mean I should go find somewhere else to live. It means I want the country where I have chosen to stay to do better--much more for its own sake than for mine.

One caveat to what I've just said: I believe there is a line of cynicism and bitterness that many ex-pats cross where they no longer, if they ever did, have the ability to think with an open mind about the culture where they have chosen to live, and do indeed endlessly complain about what they see as the negative aspects without acknowledging any of the positive, or appreciating that different cultures do some things different ways and most often that's fine. And I agree that many on Thai Visa have gone way over that line. But in this instance, most of the criticism is well-deserved.

I do not take exception with most of the points made in your well-written post.

I do take sharp exception to the inference that most of the free-for-all fault finding on this thread is being done constructively in the name of trying to improve police services in Thailand.

Many of the same critics here continually pop up on forum after forum leaping to complain about Thailand at every opportunity which presents itself. While I agree that foreigners can sometimes bring a helpful perspective to a problem, very few of the comments on this thread fall under the banner of constructive criticism. At some point, given that no one put a gun to anyone's head to force anyone to live here, the question does need to be asked, 'Why not leave?"

If the gist of your comment is that some people on Thai Visa go way overboard in bashing Thailand without ever balancing out their negativity with an appreciation for the positive aspects that makes us want to be here, then I agree.

In fact, I had previously edited my last post to include this comment at the end:

"One caveat to what I've just said: I believe there is a line of cynicism and bitterness that many ex-pats cross where they no longer, if they ever did, have the ability to think with an open mind about the culture where they have chosen to live, and do indeed endlessly complain about what they see as the negative aspects without acknowledging any of the positive, or appreciating that different cultures do some things different ways and most often that's fine. And I agree that many on Thai Visa have gone way over that line. But in this instance, most of the criticism is well-deserved."

But I think it's harmful to generically imply that those who criticize some aspects of Thai culture should up and leave if they don't like those things. If you don't like almost everything in Thailand, then yes of course why stay? But it should not be expected that ex-pats in any country--whether farangs in Thailand or Thais in farang countries--should not voice there opinions. Maybe you didn't mean to do that...but some ex-pats do take the "we are only guests here so have no right to voice our opinion, and if you don't like it just leave" line regarding all criticism of things Thai.

I think we also need to allow for the fact that different people articulate things differently, that's what makes the world interesting. I look for sound basis and good intentions. If these things are present then I don't care so much how things are expressed. I also think in situations like this some venting is inevitable and needs to be allowed for. Yes, there are some real ill-intentioned idiots on Thai Visa, we all know that and see their repeated comments. But don't throw the many others who are legitimately upset about this situation--and certain other negative aspects of Thai society--out with the bathwater.

[xray]

eh... your stats show he worked on 1 million murders in toronto ? my my tough town :-)

They could now trace the person who had sex with her. But does that make him the killer?

If she was raped, then it likely does make him (or them) the killer(s).

My Uncle was a forensic detective in Toronto for 25 years, he is here right now...I ran this story by him and he said in 99.99999% of cases he has seen if there is a murder/rape the two crimes are committed by the same person..

You have confused a stated percentage for a case count.

[Number 3]

Hopefully the Spanish lady who was sadly raped last night by the Thai taxi driver will go straight to the media.

This will be I suggest the only way she will ever see justice. It will also assist in illustrating just how dangerous this place is. So many such crimes here go unreported and case files are "lost".

Perhaps the taxi driver wasn't Thai perhaps he was of Asian appearance with mongoloid DNA.

[KamalaRider]

I was a copper for 35 + years and I'm totally gobsmacked at the way the Thai Police have/are handling this. They appear to go public with every bit of information they acquire, without holding anything in reserve (having an Ace up their sleeve)to counter bogus alibis, red-herrings etc.

Do the general public NEED to know EVERY intimate detail ?

Serious question: Do the RTP go through ANY type of training or are they just given a uniform, a gun and told to go out there and be seen?

If I had performed my duties the way the RTP do, I would be ashamed to admit that I was once a Police Officer.

I AM DISGUSTED WITH, NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE INCIDENT BUT ALSO THE PROFESSIONALISM OF BOTH THE POLICE AND THE MEDIA.

I've got family on my wifes side who became a police officer a year back and the training they get is way below any standard in the western world. Even security companies in the west gets better training.

[MikePhuket1970]

Many people here in this forum not understand the role of a foreigner (farang)

in this country.

We(foreigners-farangs) are not guests in this country,we are customers

from the arrival stamp till the departure stamp.

So dont start whining when the thais not like or care us,They really don´t like us at all.

If you expect to get true and honest treatment as a friend or a good guest

you are in the wrong country.

Even every single smile in this country is faked and based only on financial interests.

Be a good customer and shut up ;-)

[BangkokHank]

Just as I thought its been removed but here is someones response to his post and his facebook name

Julius Montenegro , if you know so much then get in touch with the local police. Why you have to be so graphic is beyond comprehension. This page has been set up as a memory of Hannah . Nobody deserves to die in this way , so your statement claiming there was a "reason" is irrelevant, & shows how uneducated you are. This is somebody's daughter, show some degree of compassion. God bless Hannah and her family.

Stating that there was a "reason" for the murder is not the same as saying that that reason was justifiable. Perhaps "motive" would have been a better word.

[PoorSucker]

Mongoloid? Old Ghenghis Khan did get around didn't he?

Yes, roughly 16 million descendants living today.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/02/0214_030214_genghis.html