I'm sure I read that David was sexually assulted as well so maybe the second semen sample was from him.

Is this true? They raped the guy as well? Mmm.... lady boy scene perhaps?

Some are actual detectives, old boy.

Is everyone on this forum a moron?

No, this isn't true. Also, it's been reported a million times now that David's DNA was not one of the DNA samples found at the scene.

Why don't you both do some reading, it MIGHT make you both a bit smarter.

Not everyone on this forum is a moron it just has an exceptionally high percentage of crass insensitive arm chair detectives.

Pol Gen Somyot Phunphanmuang disclosed the latest test of DNA samples collected from semen … Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23, showed they belonged to Mongoloid people or Asians.

Finally!

And for the person on the other thread that dismissed my post on exactly this matter and suggested this was not possible with DNA tests, well . . .

Sorry Tatsujin, but both you and the general are mistaken.

DNA can not determine race, it can only identify traits of various groups of people, such as Asians (epicanthic folds), Europeans (blue/green eyes).

Really means little at this point in this particular crime, especially since so many people are of mixed race nowadays.

Furthermore, Thailand unlikely has the capability of determining traits, from DNA, such as blue hair or epicanthic folds. It requires advanced training, techniques, and equipment. And more than just a day or two.

More BS from the BIB.

You're knowledge is out of date, I am afraid.

DNA absolutely can be and is used to identify race, or paternal lineage. Not nationality, but ethnic background. Try looking up "haplogroups" on wikipedia if you want to learn more.

It would have been useful if the police had released the actual haplogroup (or groups if more than one perp was involved) rather than just say Mongoloid or Asian. That covers many haplogroups. If for example it is haplogroup C, its much more likely to be a North Asian (Mongolian for eaxmple). This group however is rare amongst Thais. However, if it is haplogroup O, then it is much more likely to be a South East Asian (such as a Thai person, just for example).

Maybe the actual haplogroup might have pointed too much towards person or persons nearer to home?? Or maybe they do need more help in investigating the DNA!

One could never identify a nationality per se, nor a very specific "race" like Thai (if that can indeed be considered a single race or ethnic group, which is highly debatable), as they share similar haplogroups with their neighbouring countrues in South East Asia. But the exact haplogroup information is likely to point to a much smaller area than just "Asia".

Trolling nonsense posts, inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

But... police said a thai would never commit such crime?

.

Sorry mate, you're twisting words.

No one said Thais would never commit such a crime.

What was said is: "can't BELIEVE a Thai would commit such a horrible crime"

can't believe.jpg

"On arriving the day after the murders, the senior police officer on the island assured us the culprit could not have been a Thai person."

"No Thai could possibly commit such a crime, he said, forgetting the equally ghastly murder of Welsh tourist Katherine Horton in 2006, by, it turned out, two Thai fishermen."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29262496

Right, so the suspects are of the Mongoloid race, and not Caucasians. Okay, not all Americans are Caucasians (Caucasians are people with European ancestry, or who are indigenous to Europe).

Basically, the guys who did this might be Chinese from America, or indeed, Chinese from Britain or Europe. It doesn't actually mean that they are Thai or Chinese/Thais.

"It doesn't actually mean that they are Thai ..."

Here at Thai Visa that conclusion was foregone. No one ever dies in Thailand except at the hands of a Thai criminal. In fact most deaths world-wide can somehow be blamed on Thais.

Lot's of bitter farang here who are unable to cope, but find comfort in automatically blaming all problems on Thai people. Rationality is not a hallmark of Thai bashing farang.

The probabilities are pretty easy to assess here. Asian race most prevalent on the Island are native Thais. Second most prevalent are migrant workers, mostly Burmese I understand. Least prevalent would be vacationing Thais and vacationing other Asian groups. Most likely age group would be 16-40.

It's either local Thai gang members or Burmese workers likely, possibly a stray fisherman (legal or not). I would check which locals evacuated the Island immediately after the crime, together with an accounting of all migrant workers. That is the most likely pool of suspects, but especially local Thai boys.

Mr. police general Somyot, in the civilized world we don't make mention of specific details of deceased private parts. Shame on you !

This case has angered me very much,the way it has been handled almost mirrors what happened in my daughters murder back in 2000.

The Thais have learned nothing...,

No sealing off of the crime scene,red herrings,false statements from the BIB,misleading info,first it's a Brit,then an immigrant,back to the Brit.

Thais say they make an arrest very soon,I have heard it all before.

The only reason the Brit in our case was released was DNA didn't match ,and the forensics guy in Chaingmai did narrow down the perpetrator to be southeast Asian.

Once the uk guys got involved the DNA was then sent for familiar testing,which was closely matched to a tour guide,but there is so much interbreeding with Karen tribes it's not as straight forward as it would be in the uk.

If the uk police are to be involved they have to be officially asked,through the proper channels I.e.fco and embassies have to send official letters of request,this can take months.

Have the Thais checked the lads DNA against what was found on Hannah?

I feel so sorry for the families,the press print stuff that there is no need to print,graphic details that only hurt even more.

No matter what your kids get up to they are still your kids and no one likes to think of them in a "bad"way.

We were so glad when the pm results come back for our daughter,no drugs or alcohol ,not because she didn't drink or no doubt tried a spiff,but because if she had it would no doubt have been her fault she was raped and murdered.

The Thais don't seem to care that they are failing badly and loss of face over a Thai committing the crime seems more important than actually solving the murders.

Personally I don't see this being solved,I hope I am wrong.

I've been trying for 14 years and am no further on......people know,but no one will talk,even for a reward.

Why the (usual TV) sarcasm gentlemen?...There was hard evidence that this crime was possibly committed by their friends from the UK. OK resume drinking.

...is 'btunes' a new drug or something?

Plural. Doesn't identify how many unique persons are identified, but fair to one rapist wouldn't hang around that scene for the purposes of a second.

This case has angered me very much,the way it has been handled almost mirrors what happened in my daughters murder back in 2000.

The Thais have learned nothing...,

No sealing off of the crime scene,red herrings,false statements from the BIB,misleading info,first it's a Brit,then an immigrant,back to the Brit.

Thais say they make an arrest very soon,I have heard it all before.

The only reason the Brit in our case was released was DNA didn't match ,and the forensics guy in Chaingmai did narrow down the perpetrator to be southeast Asian.

Once the uk guys got involved the DNA was then sent for familiar testing,which was closely matched to a tour guide,but there is so much interbreeding with Karen tribes it's not as straight forward as it would be in the uk.

If the uk police are to be involved they have to be officially asked,through the proper channels I.e.fco and embassies have to send official letters of request,this can take months.

Have the Thais checked the lads DNA against what was found on Hannah?

I feel so sorry for the families,the press print stuff that there is no need to print,graphic details that only hurt even more.

No matter what your kids get up to they are still your kids and no one likes to think of them in a "bad"way.

We were so glad when the pm results come back for our daughter,no drugs or alcohol ,not because she didn't drink or no doubt tried a spiff,but because if she had it would no doubt have been her fault she was raped and murdered.

The Thais don't seem to care that they are failing badly and loss of face over a Thai committing the crime seems more important than actually solving the murders.

Personally I don't see this being solved,I hope I am wrong.

I've been trying for 14 years and am no further on......people know,but no one will talk,even for a reward.

I do acknowledge knowing who you are, and do want you to know that I respect and admire you for taking the time to offer your thoughts to this topic and this family. I consider you and your family as very special...

My prayers are also with you in your own quest.

The broadcaster you can trust... to make infantile, offensively descriptive, spelling and grammar errors. 'mongoloid'? 'annal'?

As to the DNA technology confusion, well, things here are like that all the time, "yes we have the garlic prawns", then after a visit to the kitchen, "no we don't".

I just always choose two mains now (one is the back-up) to avoid the inevitable let down. Maybe the lab is like that too?

Almost would be funny if people weren't getting butchered but your right about things.

Though its frowned on here, (saying so) some people fall for their captives .

Albeit cowardly, and Unmanly , its so much easier than facing the bill.

Something about Stockholm Syndrome?

Am I the only one who doesn't understand this post? Stockholm syndrome? Who are the captives? Did he mean captors, that is the usual way of Stockholm syndrome, captives falling for captors. Of course we still don't know who is who. Cowardly and unmanly, who is that? Sounds like some guy at a keyboard afraid to say what he means.

Or when he does it gets wiped -

ok without saying it-

Let me hint-

Guns - hostage

Think Bank and hostages having sympathy for the robbers holding them.

Then go Nation -

Again

Get it ?

Not hard to figure .

But lets stick to the topic which is they aint getting the helicopter .

It was a Thai!!! ….no escape.

Something is amiss here. a quote from one of todays press releases

"He said that after the reconstruction of the crime scene on Friday, the case had progressed and the police had not ruled out anyone. Officers even took DNA samples of more than 20 local women, British media reported."

I read this through twice so I was not misreading. After withdrawing the FBI request due to the new found in-house knowledge re using DNA, they found semen in one of the victims...... then they are doing DNA testing on 20 women ?????? Do they think that these women are going to provide a match for the semen found in the victim.....

Is this not beyond consideration? ... or the women of Koh Tao a little different?

Maybe the book they found this morning on "How to Do DNA Testing" should be reread.

At first reading of course it does seem strange to test the women. However, as DNA can trace blood lines, what if they found a DNA compatible trace in one of the women? Would that not narrow the search down to her family line and possibly someone who had already left the island? Maybe not so off the ball park as it first seems - except for the fact that we are assuming logical thinking from the BIB!

Mongoloid? Old Ghenghis Khan did get around didn't he?

He certainly did. It's estimated that at at least 16 million men alive today are directly descended from him!

It's not really that amazing, Genghis was 40 generations ago. If I had two children and they each had two children and they had two and so on there would be 1,099,511,627,776 born on the 40th generation. That's 140 times as many people as there are in the world at the moment. If you look at it in the other direction, I have two parents, four grandparents, eight great grandparents and so on, going back 40 generations I should have been created by over a trillion relatives but the simple fact is that is more than 2000 times as many people as there were 800 years ago. We are clearly a little more inbred than we like to imagine and if we were to do a similar test to that done with Genghis on many other historic figures we would see a similar result.

Questions i have are:

David's body was found completely naked, so either the culprits striped his body or he had taken his clothes off to have sex with Hannah, since I'm sure i saw a report somewhere about the police finding a condom.

Who was the last of her friends to see her alive, surely she must of been seen on CCTV somewhere, since we know from the CCTV of David that the murders happened after 1:56 am.

So completely contradictory. Why not let's wait?

Another post containing overly derogatory comments toward Thais has been removed.

Right, so the suspects are of the Mongoloid race, and not Caucasians. Okay, not all Americans are Caucasians (Caucasians are people with European ancestry, or who are indigenous to Europe).

Basically, the guys who did this might be Chinese from America, or indeed, Chinese from Britain or Europe. It doesn't actually mean that they are Thai or Chinese/Thais.

"It doesn't actually mean that they are Thai ..."

Here at Thai Visa that conclusion was foregone. No one ever dies in Thailand except at the hands of a Thai criminal. In fact most deaths world-wide can somehow be blamed on Thais.

Lot's of bitter farang hh there who are unable to cope, but find comfort in automatically blaming all problems on Thai people. Rationality is not a hallmark of Thai bashing farang.

They are not 'Thai bashing'. It's just your xenophobia, Please read post #97 and tell us why you think farangs shouldn't be a little bit angry with the ineptitude of the so called RTP 'professionals' who are trying to solve this horrific crime.

Big surprise!

What is perhaps a bigger surprise is where this scientific expertise suddenly came from in Thailand.

Out of it's thoroughness, though, comes something unsurprising. Noting the point about mongoloid, Thai police are now hunting for an eskimo, possibly three eskimos.

Search party for igloos now begin assembled -

First of all, this is a tragedy and I can see how it has affected many people as I even feel awful and can't bare to even think of this happening to any of my family, especially my daughter and whatever needs to be done to bring this to an end must be done, but man oh man, what makes me feel even more sick to my stomach is reading everybody's comments. Everybody seems to think they are experts and plainly have been watching CSI way too much. Has anybody ever thought about the family members? How they may be reading these posts as I'm sure they are suffering so much that they require as much input as possible and have to be searching the net (news sites) for anything they can grasp on to and what they're potentially finding is a load of CSI experts on these threads. You have constant poking at authorities that they are not doing their job to egging on experts in specific fields that can lead to a closer view of what exactly occurrred to who the potential suspects are etc... And it's not just the posters in these threads, it's the articles...a continuance of mentioning the semen in not one location but TWO! Does anybody have the desency to consider that the family is potentially reading over these threads as well and that you are not helping...just making matters worst and confusing the situation for them? And the news agencies...how sick are you to continuously repeat where they found the semen? That makes me sick and I know if GOD forbid that it was my daughter, I would not want to be reminded daily where they found it.

If any member of the family is reading these posts, I am sorry for my post, and will not post anything else on this matter and I do hope that your pain eases in time and that these guilty individuals are caught and given what they firmly deserve.

GOD BLESS YOU and may your daughter and son RIP.

Still waiting to hear if they are looking for the Thai seen running away wearing the wrong pair of shorts. Someone must know him and that he has got a new pair of shorts, is he the same young Thai that was coming on to the female victim in the bar,but was told to clear off, does'nt anybody know him. I am wondering why the local RTP do not seem interested in him. Perhaps they already know him, is he from a powerful KT family....................so many questions regarding this guy.

Mr. police general Somyot, in the civilized world we don't make mention of specific details of deceased private parts. Shame on you !

Yes.........Absolutely no sensitivity to the victim's family's feelings.

This guys Asian ,that did this has left the Island long time ago , so they need find out ,who left this Island that have a job there or some buisness , left on short notice, with upconstructed reason . THATs what they need do .Highly doubt that they hang around there as nothing has happend..

And what happend with the story about one Thai loose face in the bar there before this happend.. nothing news about this ?

Today one girl from SPAIN was raped by a taxi driver after back to her hotel from her first night at Kao San Road.

With all the news about the murder of 2 brits the police is trying to mute all the bad things that are occurring in LOS. The police wanted the girl doesnt speak to the media by giving some nights on a good hotel close to the river.

If anyone think im a troll is ok but my source is family of the girl in Spain. Im giving this information to prevent any tourist to get a taxi atnight and specially women and doing it alone.

Unfortunately the girl was prety and as PM said last week. Prety woman wearing bikini are in dangerous...

Might be a good idea to ask local people to consider younger (16-25yr/old) locals & local workers who are known to be "best" friends. This kind of a crime is likely committed by a pair who know each other very well. They probably have a history of hanging out, drinking, working together, and have been seen together before, after all, it 's an island. Maybe anyone who has recently shaved his head or died his hair. We need a team of police hair dressers from Bangkok on the scene now...

The perps are likely to be young, male, dumb, local, mongoloid, cigarette smoking, best buddies....who know the area well. That narrows it down doesn't it?

What's the word on the Island I wonder.... someone must know these animals.

Well I suggested they do this last week, but they are silly not to get the UK police or the FBI to fine tune it. Very unprofessional police decision, there is still a lot that can be uncovered in DNA with the top equipment.

I hope they have shut the island down, no one in, no one out without DNA swabs. But that may be to much for them.

Why the (usual TV) sarcasm gentlemen?...There was hard evidence that this crime was possibly committed by their friends from the UK. OK resume drinking.

I think the reason that most TV members express sarcastic or negative views of the current investigation is because we are probably all used to the inefficiency and corruption of the RTP in one way or another. It seems also that most Thai citizens hold little respect for the RTP, which far from serving the people appears to prey on them.

The dreadful murders in Koh Tao have put the RTP in the international spotlight at a time when the world is very sensitive to what is happening in Thailand. This is a very high profile test for the Government to prove that they intend that justice will be done no matter who is the culprit, unfortunately the inefficiency and lack of training of the RTP is likely to hinder that process.

But... police said a thai would never commit such crime?

Believe DNA points towards Asian suspects. Are Thais the only Asians in the region?

But... police said a thai would never commit such crime?

.

Sorry mate, you're twisting words.

No one said Thais would never commit such a crime.

What was said is: "can't BELIEVE a Thai would commit such a horrible crime"

can't believe.jpg

Same same mate ....

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Something is amiss here. a quote from one of todays press releases

"He said that after the reconstruction of the crime scene on Friday, the case had progressed and the police had not ruled out anyone. Officers even took DNA samples of more than 20 local women, British media reported."

I read this through twice so I was not misreading. After withdrawing the FBI request due to the new found in-house knowledge re using DNA, they found semen in one of the victims...... then they are doing DNA testing on 20 women ?????? Do they think that these women are going to provide a match for the semen found in the victim.....

Is this not beyond consideration? ... or the women of Koh Tao a little different?

Maybe the book they found this morning on "How to Do DNA Testing" should be reread.

At first reading of course it does seem strange to test the women. However, as DNA can trace blood lines, what if they found a DNA compatible trace in one of the women? Would that not narrow the search down to her family line and possibly someone who had already left the island? Maybe not so off the ball park as it first seems - except for the fact that we are assuming logical thinking from the BIB!

Exactly what I thought. I have seen a number of documentaries where families (male & FEMALE) DNA have been a close match to a perpetrator, and therefore help illuminate suspects as well as narrow down possible suspects. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/familial-searching