UK financial bombshell may hit British Expats

[billd766]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

Bitter and twisted jealousy is such a negative emotion that could affect your health. If you live long enough, you will become a pensioner one day too, but be careful you don't spend all your 600 baht per month in one day now.

You could be lucky like my Thai Mother in Law. Her farang son in law has given her a small house to live in, she pays no bills and I support her 100%.

Do you support yours and your wifes parents as well?

Also I would love to pay income tax in Thailand rather than in the UK. However the UK government has deemed that as my pensions were UK derived I MUST pay UK income tax so most pensioners like me have NO choice in the matter.

Edited September 22, 2014 by billd766

[Muhendis]

For those of you who are too lazy, can't be bothered or don't know how, here is the relevant commentary in the consultation document for expat pensioners.

6.6Pensioners

Pensioners who live overseas are a significant group of British national expatriates, estimated by DWP at around 1,200,000 individuals. Most UK national pensioners living overseas would not be affected by any restriction on non-residents entitlement to the Personal Allowance. This is because:

• some are still resident in the UK for tax purposes and so would not be affected by any change
• provisions of tax treaties generally mean that UK state pensions, personal pensions or private sector occupational pensions are only taxable in recipients’ states of residence and not in the UK
• many non-resident UK national pensioners do not have any other income (i.e. employment or property) which is taxable in the UK and would not be affected by losing their Personal Allowance

However, under double tax treaties, UK sourced government service pensions (a wide category which includes, amongst others, some NHS staff and those employed by local authorities) are generally only taxed in the UK, regardless of recipients’ residence status. This can also be the case with some other forms of income under specific treaties. The withdrawal of the UK personal allowance from non-residents in receipt of a UK government service pension would result in them paying more tax overall as there is no overseas tax liability against which the additional UK tax could be relieved.

The government is concerned that individuals, like those in receipt of government service pensions, who are not eligible for double taxation relief, would be disproportionately affected by the removal of the UK Personal Allowance.

The government does not intend to raise taxes on vulnerable groups or in situations where the UK is the principal taxing authority and an individual has no recourse to relief as a result of the UK having sole taxing rights under a tax treaty. If the government were to restrict non-residents’ entitlement to the Personal Allowance, it would intend this to apply to types of income which are taxable both in the UK and overseas (such as that from immovable property) but to retain the Personal Allowance on income that is taxable exclusively in the UK.

[jimbeam1]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

Might even have a smidgen (spelt correctly) of respect for you.

Unlike us for you?

By the way, I do pay taxes here, that are asked/demanded of me.

jb1

[jimbeam1]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

Bitter and twisted jealousy is such a negative emotion that could affect your health. If you live long enough, you will become a pensioner one day too, but be careful you don't spend all your 600 baht per month in one day now.

The guy has a point.

Retirees don't contribute to the infrastructure, policing, health care, schooling,yet some even try to use the 30baht scheme, complain about policing, the lighting in their street, the garbage etc..the list is endless here on thai visa.

The silly comment I spend my money here, support a thai spouse ( how ridiculous a statement is that!) - all voluntarily and all for your own self consumption and own needs not for the general good of thailand.

I am nearer to pension age , paid a fortune in taxes here..can't say I am impressed with all this old type moaning..it is criminal to tax UK state pensions period, but retirees contribute very little in the scheme of things. In Fact they pay no income taxes in Thailand yet are resident here for taxes purposes as defined by thai tax laws..which by the way you can pay voluntarily if you want to declare it..

It is not a negative emotion, why does everything have to be emotional it is simply stating a fact you live in a country more then 6 months a year and you don't pay taxes!

You don't live in the UK, your monies are transferred over tax free because of allowances..that makes sense as you contributed and don't use UK services. But here you do use services, the lighting, the roads etc..so logically you should pay tax here for those services or you want them for free as well, don't you want to contribute to thai society at large .

Being a poor pensioner sucks ! Getting old sucks !

Being a poor pensioner sucks ! Getting old sucks !

I am one but not the other.

You could work longer hours to help provide us with better services... Lighting? Roads? should we also include Police?

jb1

[Peterphuket]

Governments have a licence to steal...

And in particular those countries have been united in the European Community because you'll see all the same about stealing money from there citizens.

[joebrown]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

Bitter and twisted jealousy is such a negative emotion that could affect your health. If you live long enough, you will become a pensioner one day too, but be careful you don't spend all your 600 baht per month in one day now.

The guy has a point.

Retirees don't contribute to the infrastructure, policing, health care, schooling,yet some even try to use the 30baht scheme, complain about policing, the lighting in their street, the garbage etc..the list is endless here on thai visa.

The silly comment I spend my money here, support a thai spouse ( how ridiculous a statement is that!) - all voluntarily and all for your own self consumption and own needs not for the general good of thailand.

I am nearer to pension age , paid a fortune in taxes here..can't say I am impressed with all this old type moaning..it is criminal to tax UK state pensions period, but retirees contribute very little in the scheme of things. In Fact they pay no income taxes in Thailand yet are resident here for taxes purposes as defined by thai tax laws..which by the way you can pay voluntarily if you want to declare it..

It is not a negative emotion, why does everything have to be emotional it is simply stating a fact you live in a country more then 6 months a year and you don't pay taxes!

You don't live in the UK, your monies are transferred over tax free because of allowances..that makes sense as you contributed and don't use UK services. But here you do use services, the lighting, the roads etc..so logically you should pay tax here for those services or you want them for free as well, don't you want to contribute to thai society at large .

Being a poor pensioner sucks ! Getting old sucks !

Before spouting so pompously you should get your facts in line with reality.

For you to say that "your moneys are transferred over tax free because of allowances" is questionable, to say the least. Please let me have the names/numbers, if there are any, of those UK pensioner expats, who don't have Income Tax deducted at source on their UK Pension(s) income, where Pension(s) are now their sole income. As a general rule UK expats have to pay for their health treatment in Thailand, either by means of Insurance, or as I do at a Thai Health Service hospital, charged at 200% more than a Thai national, which seems fair to me. I lease a property, and if my landlord is liable to taxation for street lighting, roads etc then I feel sure he would have included this in the rent I pay on this property. Sorry, I forgot to add the contributions I make to the Thai Taxation coffers by way of motor fuel and alcoholic consumption. I pay the Thai Gov't all that is asked of me!

[sambum]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

Bitter and twisted jealousy is such a negative emotion that could affect your health. If you live long enough, you will become a pensioner one day too, but be careful you don't spend all your 600 baht per month in one day now.

The guy has a point.

Retirees don't contribute to the infrastructure, policing, health care, schooling,yet some even try to use the 30baht scheme, complain about policing, the lighting in their street, the garbage etc..the list is endless here on thai visa.

The silly comment I spend my money here, support a thai spouse ( how ridiculous a statement is that!) - all voluntarily and all for your own self consumption and own needs not for the general good of thailand.

I am nearer to pension age , paid a fortune in taxes here..can't say I am impressed with all this old type moaning..it is criminal to tax UK state pensions period, but retirees contribute very little in the scheme of things. In Fact they pay no income taxes in Thailand yet are resident here for taxes purposes as defined by thai tax laws..which by the way you can pay voluntarily if you want to declare it..

It is not a negative emotion, why does everything have to be emotional it is simply stating a fact you live in a country more then 6 months a year and you don't pay taxes!

You don't live in the UK, your monies are transferred over tax free because of allowances..that makes sense as you contributed and don't use UK services. But here you do use services, the lighting, the roads etc..so logically you should pay tax here for those services or you want them for free as well, don't you want to contribute to thai society at large .

Being a poor pensioner sucks ! Getting old sucks !

Before spouting so pompously you should get your facts in line with reality.

For you to say that "your moneys are transferred over tax free because of allowances" is questionable, to say the least. Please let me have the names/numbers, if there are any, of those UK pensioner expats, who don't have Income Tax deducted at source on their UK Pension(s) income, where Pension(s) are now their sole income. As a general rule UK expats have to pay for their health treatment in Thailand, either by means of Insurance, or as I do at a Thai Health Service hospital, charged at 200% more than a Thai national, which seems fair to me. I lease a property, and if my landlord is liable to taxation for street lighting, roads etc then I feel sure he would have included this in the rent I pay on this property. Sorry, I forgot to add the contributions I make to the Thai Taxation coffers by way of motor fuel and alcoholic consumption. I pay the Thai Gov't all that is asked of me!

Just by living here, I am contributing to the Thai taxation system! I spend money on food, drink, motor fuel and pay utility bills, all of which include a certain amount of taxation. If I were living in my home country, I would also be spending money on the same "basics" and paying this type of taxation, which could be called "double taxation". However, I now eat and drink here, so the second level of taxation is now payed here. Joebrown and I and many others are indeed contributing to the "system", and if we weren't here the amount of money raised by taxation on the "basics" would fall, thereby necessitating taxes to be raised in other areas - probably hit YOU in increased Income Tax!!!

[wileycoyote]

Pending-let's wait & see

[mrfill]

That good old magic word "IF" again.

"IF" my Granddad wore a dress he would have been my Granny. However he didn't, and he wasn't

But you don't know what your granddad did in the privacy of his own wardrobe now, do you?

Well he was born in 1886 and died in 1958 and I don't think that there were any cross dressers in those days.

J Edgar Hoover?

[Muhendis]

For those that are concerned about direct taxation in Thailand you might like to look at the Thai tax guidance booklet to be found here: http://www.pwc.com/en_TH/th/publications/2013/thai-tax-2013-booklet.pdf

Note there is no mention of taxation requirements on pensions from outside of Thailand but I expect someone will have that information and post it pretty soon.

In the mean time indirect taxation is what we all pay regardless as long as we are here eating, drinking, using electricity etc...... Sounds a bit like the UK realy.

[sambum]

For those that are concerned about direct taxation in Thailand you might like to look at the Thai tax guidance booklet to be found here: http://www.pwc.com/en_TH/th/publications/2013/thai-tax-2013-booklet.pdf

Note there is no mention of taxation requirements on pensions from outside of Thailand but I expect someone will have that information and post it pretty soon.

In the mean time indirect taxation is what we all pay regardless as long as we are here eating, drinking, using electricity etc...... Sounds a bit like the UK realy.

Exactly what I alluded to earlier! (See No 67)

[PattayaPhom]

They seem to forget how much money they save by pensioner folk living abroad..........

Exactly! And if this ever happens, this pensioner will be returning to the UK with his wife and five year old son to make FULL use of every benefit and handout that's available.

As I said before on another thread, I will become a net CONSUMER of tax funds instead of a net CONTRIBUTOR>

Talk about a soft target and small potatoes as far as tax raising funds are concerned. Ba..tards!

In order to take your Foreign wife to the UK, you need either 63,000 pounds in savings or an annual income of 18,500 plus more for each Non UK kid, so many would not be able to take their wife due to lack of funds

[Muhendis]

For those that are concerned about direct taxation in Thailand you might like to look at the Thai tax guidance booklet to be found here: http://www.pwc.com/en_TH/th/publications/2013/thai-tax-2013-booklet.pdf

Note there is no mention of taxation requirements on pensions from outside of Thailand but I expect someone will have that information and post it pretty soon.

In the mean time indirect taxation is what we all pay regardless as long as we are here eating, drinking, using electricity etc...... Sounds a bit like the UK realy.

Exactly what I alluded to earlier! (See No 67)

Yes. Absolutely Sambum but I think there are only about 25,000 UK expats here so their contribution whilst useful is but a drop in the ocean and would probably pass unnoticed if they all upped sticks and left. On the other hand the tax income from tourist sales is huge and would most certainly be missed if they stopped coming.

[awayego]

They seem to forget how much money they save by pensioner folk living abroad..........

Exactly! And if this ever happens, this pensioner will be returning to the UK with his wife and five year old son to make FULL use of every benefit and handout that's available.

As I said before on another thread, I will become a net CONSUMER of tax funds instead of a net CONTRIBUTOR>

Talk about a soft target and small potatoes as far as tax raising funds are concerned. Ba..tards!

In order to take your Foreign wife to the UK, you need either 63,000 pounds in savings or an annual income of 18,500 plus more for each Non UK kid, so many would not be able to take their wife due to lack of funds

Thanks for that info. I did wonder what the figures were likely to be.

Unfortunately, I am one of those who could not afford to take my wife but, on the other hand, I don't think she would want to go anyway! She runs quite a successful business here, quite apart from leaving her huge family!

However, it will always be an option for me to take our son (a UK citizen) for a better education than I can afford here. We can always spend the summer holidays back in LoS!

[personchester]

"The total sum which could be saved confiscated by the government is in the region of 400 million pounds."

"Saved?" Where do governments ever get the idea that their citizens' money is first theirs?

Thats the root of the problem with these quasi commie countries, its not the citizens money, its the govt's money to do with as they see fit.

Hence such socialist paradises as Greece, Spain, Italy etc are now finding out to their cost and wonder why they are skint.

It should be regarded as citizens money alright, because they did pay their monthly pension payment request to the government during their working time in the UK that is to say for 40 years -plus.

However, the current taxation proposal is not a pensioners matter, it is entirely a state matter controlled by the government.

Nevertheless, should the new tax request on expat pensioners becomes known to the UK public as a harsh financial problem for the aged pensioners abroad who have in several countries their state pension also frozen be the UK government.

Should 10.and 11.Downing Street then impose those taxation request for expat pensioners then due to their financial problems it might be possible that MP's at Westminster parliament will not appreciate it and therefore reject it.

Edited September 22, 2014 by personchester

[sambum]

For those that are concerned about direct taxation in Thailand you might like to look at the Thai tax guidance booklet to be found here: http://www.pwc.com/en_TH/th/publications/2013/thai-tax-2013-booklet.pdf

Note there is no mention of taxation requirements on pensions from outside of Thailand but I expect someone will have that information and post it pretty soon.

In the mean time indirect taxation is what we all pay regardless as long as we are here eating, drinking, using electricity etc...... Sounds a bit like the UK realy.

Exactly what I alluded to earlier! (See No 67)

Yes. Absolutely Sambum but I think there are only about 25,000 UK expats here so their contribution whilst useful is but a drop in the ocean and would probably pass unnoticed if they all upped sticks and left. On the other hand the tax income from tourist sales is huge and would most certainly be missed if they stopped coming.

I agree that the revenue from tourism is huge, but tourism has its "high season" and "low seasons" - anyone visiting the tourist destinations can see that at the moment, certain areas are like "ghost towns". However, we expats are here all the year round, and I am sure that 1 expat will spend more in a year than a whole family of tourists on a 2/3 week holiday!

[Muhendis]

For those that are concerned about direct taxation in Thailand you might like to look at the Thai tax guidance booklet to be found here: http://www.pwc.com/en_TH/th/publications/2013/thai-tax-2013-booklet.pdf

Note there is no mention of taxation requirements on pensions from outside of Thailand but I expect someone will have that information and post it pretty soon.

In the mean time indirect taxation is what we all pay regardless as long as we are here eating, drinking, using electricity etc...... Sounds a bit like the UK realy.

Exactly what I alluded to earlier! (See No 67)

Yes. Absolutely Sambum but I think there are only about 25,000 UK expats here so their contribution whilst useful is but a drop in the ocean and would probably pass unnoticed if they all upped sticks and left. On the other hand the tax income from tourist sales is huge and would most certainly be missed if they stopped coming.

I agree that the revenue from tourism is huge, but tourism has its "high season" and "low seasons" - anyone visiting the tourist destinations can see that at the moment, certain areas are like "ghost towns". However, we expats are here all the year round, and I am sure that 1 expat will spend more in a year than a whole family of tourists on a 2/3 week holiday!

We are getting off topic somewhat but I think that the spending power of UK expat pensioners, whilst significant from a personal viewpoint, is not so great when you consider that this year so far the number of international tourists surged to around 517 million between January and June. Those are the figures quoted in an English language newspaper. If our pensions are taxed as seems possible then it is quite likely that we will spend even less here.

Some of the reasons why we expats are held in such low esteem by the UK govt. is that

1. We are no longer paying HMRC VAT on our purchases.
2. We are not seen as a polling station power.

The first point is typical sour grapes but the second we expats could fix if only the UK electoral commission would make it less tedious. Of course it would also require us/someone to raise the issue with the UK MP's.

[Muhendis]

I agree that the revenue from tourism is huge, but tourism has its "high season" and "low seasons" - anyone visiting the tourist destinations can see that at the moment, certain areas are like "ghost towns". However, we expats are here all the year round, and I am sure that 1 expat will spend more in a year than a whole family of tourists on a 2/3 week holiday!

We are getting off topic somewhat but I think that the spending power of UK expat pensioners, whilst significant from a personal viewpoint, is not so great when you consider that this year so far the number of international tourists surged to around 517 million between January and June. Those are the figures quoted in an English language newspaper. If our pensions are taxed as seems possible then it is quite likely that we will spend even less here.

Some of the reasons why we expats are held in such low esteem by the UK govt. is that

1. We are no longer paying HMRC VAT on our purchases.
2. We are not seen as a polling station power.

The first point is typical sour grapes but the second we expats could fix if only the UK electoral commission would make it less tedious. Of course it would also require us/someone to raise the issue with the UK MP's.

[sambum]

I agree that the revenue from tourism is huge, but tourism has its "high season" and "low seasons" - anyone visiting the tourist destinations can see that at the moment, certain areas are like "ghost towns". However, we expats are here all the year round, and I am sure that 1 expat will spend more in a year than a whole family of tourists on a 2/3 week holiday!

We are getting off topic somewhat but I think that the spending power of UK expat pensioners, whilst significant from a personal viewpoint, is not so great when you consider that this year so far the number of international tourists surged to around 517 million between January and June. Those are the figures quoted in an English language newspaper. If our pensions are taxed as seems possible then it is quite likely that we will spend even less here.

Some of the reasons why we expats are held in such low esteem by the UK govt. is that

1. We are no longer paying HMRC VAT on our purchases.
2. We are not seen as a polling station power.

The first point is typical sour grapes but the second we expats could fix if only the UK electoral commission would make it less tedious. Of course it would also require us/someone to raise the issue with the UK MP's.

[Jonmarleesco]

'The total sum which could be saved by the government is in the region of 400 million pounds.' There wouldn't be a saving; there would be extra taxes finding their way into the treasury coffers. I would have less objection were I entitled to vote the UK government in - or out; were there to be little to no chance that my taxes would either be wasted by the likes of the DWP, or put towards funding more MP expenses fiddles; and were the government to drop its reliance on ludicrous reciprocal agreements to dictate whether or not it pays retirees their rightful annual state pension increases.

And the majority of overseas British nationals probably don't actually need to complete a UK tax return every year.

[sambum]

I agree that the revenue from tourism is huge, but tourism has its "high season" and "low seasons" - anyone visiting the tourist destinations can see that at the moment, certain areas are like "ghost towns". However, we expats are here all the year round, and I am sure that 1 expat will spend more in a year than a whole family of tourists on a 2/3 week holiday!

We are getting off topic somewhat but I think that the spending power of UK expat pensioners, whilst significant from a personal viewpoint, is not so great when you consider that this year so far the number of international tourists surged to around 517 million between January and June. Those are the figures quoted in an English language newspaper. If our pensions are taxed as seems possible then it is quite likely that we will spend even less here.

Some of the reasons why we expats are held in such low esteem by the UK govt. is that

1. We are no longer paying HMRC VAT on our purchases.
2. We are not seen as a polling station power.

The first point is typical sour grapes but the second we expats could fix if only the UK electoral commission would make it less tedious. Of course it would also require us/someone to raise the issue with the UK MP's.

Agreed on both points, and it may be interesting to find out if anyone has indeed raised the issue of point no 2 with their MP - either personally, or someone doing so on their behalf.

[rayongchelsea]

Hopefully the gravy train that is UK pensioners living in Thailand will be over soon. Not only should the UK govt tax them but their pensions should be taxed further by the Thai authorities. What have they contributed to the coffers here? Nothing. Pay taxes and stop expecting a free ride. Contribute to Thailand and then those of us who have paid taxes here their entire working lives might even have a smidgin of respect for you.

Bitter and twisted jealousy is such a negative emotion that could affect your health. If you live long enough, you will become a pensioner one day too, but be careful you don't spend all your 600 baht per month in one day now.

The guy has a point.

Retirees don't contribute to the infrastructure, policing, health care, schooling,yet some even try to use the 30baht scheme, complain about policing, the lighting in their street, the garbage etc..the list is endless here on thai visa.

The silly comment I spend my money here, support a thai spouse ( how ridiculous a statement is that!) - all voluntarily and all for your own self consumption and own needs not for the general good of thailand.

I am nearer to pension age , paid a fortune in taxes here..can't say I am impressed with all this old type moaning..it is criminal to tax UK state pensions period, but retirees contribute very little in the scheme of things. In Fact they pay no income taxes in Thailand yet are resident here for taxes purposes as defined by thai tax laws..which by the way you can pay voluntarily if you want to declare it..

It is not a negative emotion, why does everything have to be emotional it is simply stating a fact you live in a country more then 6 months a year and you don't pay taxes!

You don't live in the UK, your monies are transferred over tax free because of allowances..that makes sense as you contributed and don't use UK services. But here you do use services, the lighting, the roads etc..so logically you should pay tax here for those services or you want them for free as well, don't you want to contribute to thai society at large .

Being a poor pensioner sucks ! Getting old sucks !

Before spouting so pompously you should get your facts in line with reality.

For you to say that "your moneys are transferred over tax free because of allowances" is questionable, to say the least. Please let me have the names/numbers, if there are any, of those UK pensioner expats, who don't have Income Tax deducted at source on their UK Pension(s) income, where Pension(s) are now their sole income. As a general rule UK expats have to pay for their health treatment in Thailand, either by means of Insurance, or as I do at a Thai Health Service hospital, charged at 200% more than a Thai national, which seems fair to me. I lease a property, and if my landlord is liable to taxation for street lighting, roads etc then I feel sure he would have included this in the rent I pay on this property. Sorry, I forgot to add the contributions I make to the Thai Taxation coffers by way of motor fuel and alcoholic consumption. I pay the Thai Gov't all that is asked of me!

Why are you not reclaiming your deductions if your income is below the allowance threshold?

And if you claim on a regular basis why have they not adjusted your tax code accordingly?

Discretionary spending is to your personal benefit, not a very persuasive arguement, when short term tourists probably contribute more than some long term residents.

As for your last sentence - I take your point.

[nong38]

This unlikely to apply to moat expats out of the UK, I suggest you wait for the autumn statement due on the 3rd of December before getting worried.

[Muhendis]

'The total sum which could be saved by the government is in the region of 400 million pounds.' There wouldn't be a saving; there would be extra taxes finding their way into the treasury coffers. I would have less objection were I entitled to vote the UK government in - or out; were there to be little to no chance that my taxes would either be wasted by the likes of the DWP, or put towards funding more MP expenses fiddles; and were the government to drop its reliance on ludicrous reciprocal agreements to dictate whether or not it pays retirees their rightful annual state pension increases.

And the majority of overseas British nationals probably don't actually need to complete a UK tax return every year.

I do sympathise with your points. It is indeed not a saving at all but a clawback of funds which were previously given to all pensioners by right. Simply because a person chooses to live the way he/she does is not a good reason to penalise them. Your comment about reciprocal agreements is well said. It makes a good screen to hide behind but all it means is that because they do/don't do it so shall we. in many cases this works fine (for example health care), but there are some where the argument is so weak that it only survives when top barristers are employed.

Your objection regarding voting power is not valid. You can vote if you so wish. It's a rather tedious process though and the UK electoral commision are looking into making it more user friendly with online voting. Uk nationals living in other countries amount to something like 1.2 million souls. That is a sizeable voting block if only they would become interested enough.

[billd766]

They seem to forget how much money they save by pensioner folk living abroad..........

Exactly! And if this ever happens, this pensioner will be returning to the UK with his wife and five year old son to make FULL use of every benefit and handout that's available.

As I said before on another thread, I will become a net CONSUMER of tax funds instead of a net CONTRIBUTOR>

Talk about a soft target and small potatoes as far as tax raising funds are concerned. Ba..tards!

In order to take your Foreign wife to the UK, you need either 63,000 pounds in savings or an annual income of 18,500 plus more for each Non UK kid, so many would not be able to take their wife due to lack of funds

Thanks for that info. I did wonder what the figures were likely to be.

Unfortunately, I am one of those who could not afford to take my wife but, on the other hand, I don't think she would want to go anyway! She runs quite a successful business here, quite apart from leaving her huge family!

However, it will always be an option for me to take our son (a UK citizen) for a better education than I can afford here. We can always spend the summer holidays back in LoS!

Actually it is £18,600. If £18,500 is all you get your wife will not be allowed in.

The fact that this is far higher than the minimum wage shows how stupid the system is.

If you take your wife and son back to the UK she will not be entitled to any benefits for some time. On the other hand you can claim all that is due to you including child benefit from day 1.

This of course will boost your income over the dreaded limit.

[tingtongtourist]

Australia government also does everything they can to disadvantage expats who are mostly non resident. Unfair tax system and complex rules about length of stay away. They even take the medicare card away if you live out of country for a certain time.

The reason because expats are a minority group and government loose no votes by upsetting them.

I always say this that governments should be stripped down in number of politicians and power. An online system should be made up so each citizen can vote on EVERY decision made by these ba$tards.

would then be hard for them to grant themself 20% wage rise on last few hours of parliament sitting before the christmas break when they think no one watch them