Thailand beach murders: Hannah Witheridge and David Miller may have argued in bar with gangster

[Fat Haggis]

Has there been anything more done about the FB page thing? Has it been dismissed as a hoax then smutcakes or has the BIB taken any actions to apprehend the pair?

Defamation only works when a person isn't guilty surely?

[metisdead]

Has there been anything more done about the FB page thing? Has it been dismissed as a hoax then smutcakes or has the BIB taken any actions to apprehend the pair?

Defamation only works when a person isn't guilty surely?

Please go back and read this post again. Please wait until an accredited source comes up with an update on this issue.

[Thai at Heart]

I would just like to chime in the anti-Thai garbage that has polluted these threads since the awful murders. There are a lot of Thais in fact I would argue probably the majority of Thais would have no problem believing that a Thai carried out these murders. People seem to be mixing up the corruption of the Thai police force with the mindset of Thai people.

Most Thai people are decent folk, yes they are nationalistic but that doesn't stop them from being able to believe Thai people carry out murders too.

Didn't hear anything about the rape on Khao San and I'm surprised it isn;t being picked up up by international media similar to the flurry of rape cases of tourists in India last year. Thailand is full of dirty scummy people but let's be sensible here and be able to realize that just like back home there is a very clear line separating normal folk from the dirty scum who carry out crimes like rape and murder.

So at least you admit there is a good.chance it may well have been a Thai who committed this crime.

That's more than the police have managed in 8 days.

[jspill]

It says on said Facebook page the 'embassy has been informed', apparently.

[PaddyDaddy]

It says on said Facebook page the 'embassy has been informed', apparently.

Quote: "We have been given advice to stop the social media on this now. It may get him killed. The embassy are involved & we have to wait it out but the situation is better than earlier"

Maybe we should heed the advise & stop talking about his allegations.

I for one would not like to be in his shoes right now.

[media]

They should have Closed the island when they had the chance!

The killers will be long gone

[AYJAYDEE]

There is of course a very urgent and important need to find, arrest and punish the murderers.

However this will not solve the root problem as TAT seems to think.

The root problem is this question: "Is it safe for tourists to visit Thailand?. Especially if you are young, female, attractive and used to ware clothes that would not in any way be offending or inviting in the West, but here in Thailand is an open invitation to rape and murder?"

On this question the answer must be categorically "NO".

just as safe as the carribean, central and south american tourist destinations

[mojorison]

There is of course a very urgent and important need to find, arrest and punish the murderers.

However this will not solve the root problem as TAT seems to think.

The root problem is this question: "Is it safe for tourists to visit Thailand?. Especially if you are young, female, attractive and used to ware clothes that would not in any way be offending or inviting in the West, but here in Thailand is an open invitation to rape and murder?"

On this question the answer must be categorically "NO".

just as safe as the carribean, central and south american tourist destinations

Your reply strengthens @ingvar's comment, it does not diminish it, as you may hope?

[Plutojames88]

They should have Closed the island when they had the chance!

The killers will be long gone

Criminal professors here disagree.

They are not gone.

And it's likely , will reoffend .

[AYJAYDEE]

There is of course a very urgent and important need to find, arrest and punish the murderers.

However this will not solve the root problem as TAT seems to think.

The root problem is this question: "Is it safe for tourists to visit Thailand?. Especially if you are young, female, attractive and used to ware clothes that would not in any way be offending or inviting in the West, but here in Thailand is an open invitation to rape and murder?"

On this question the answer must be categorically "NO".

just as safe as the carribean, central and south american tourist destinations

Your reply strengthens @ingvar's comment, it does not diminish it, as you may hope?

just pointing out that according to his criteria young attractive females cannot vacation in sunny climes anymore.

[epicstuff]

One thing that surprised me about Ko Toa is how late its bars shut. Walking home in the dark on a beach pitch black isn't a good idea. Why did they return to their hotel that way is there lit up areas on the beach now? I've been there twice and there was no lighting next to the beach. Also there is news reports of a second weapon a stick, can anyone confirm this? And the Chris Ware going home is to me strange, if it were my best mate from childhood killed I'd stay and try to help find out who did this to him. The gangster theory seems a little far fetched more over its a national vacationing on Ko To a who has returned home by now.

People like walking along the beach at night because it is a beautiful place. They certainly don't do it to get themselves raped and murdered.

Yes, the Chris Ware thing is strange - some people are strange. But the DNA testing appears to have cleared him.

The gangster theory is farfetched? Really? Why? They are everywhere in Thailand. A vacationing Thai? You think there are no gangsters on Koh Tao? That's a bit naive. Pick an island - any island - and it has a local mafia or three.. .and Koh Tao's is small and totally insular. You'd have trouble getting anyone to bear witness against such a person, unless the police jailed all of the guy's friends and all of his family.

The scenario that has been looming in my mind the whole time has been: Entitled youngster (that's 20s to me) of local mafia family - and one or two of his mates.... used to acting with total impunity, which, over the years, has made the little bastard into an egomaniacal bastard, capable of almost anything. Zipped on speed and booze - the world's best combination for having stupid ideas and actually following through on them. They decide to follow these two or happen upon them and decide to have a go at the girl, and things turn uglier and uglier. If there'd been an argument between the tourists and someone who fancies himself as a local "big dick" with an even more inflated (and falsely based) sense of pride than your average Thai male, that would make perfect sense - and explain the heights of the anger and cruelty. Speeding off his teats, he rounds up a mate or two to "teach them a lesson about who is important around here and showing "the proper respect." And, as always in his life... he gets away with it.

This was the first scenario dreamed up by most people who have lived here awhile... it was certainly the first guess of several people I know who lived in Koh Tao for extended periods. But these police clowns, keen not to implicate a Thai, in line with the nationalistic fantasies of their boss, (Quote: "I cannot believe a Thai person did this"), have been bungling about Keystone-style trying to blame migrant workers who normally wouldn't say boo to a mouse... aggressive Burmese migrant workers don't last long in places like koh Tao - they have no protection whatsoever, and as we have seen, are the first people to get blamed. Koh Tao would not be the place to be a Burmese criminal.

So finally they get on the right track... and it will be too late, and the guy will get away with it.

After 20 years on the islands I can say: Spot on.

It has here on the islands, many thai adolescents with rich parents.

Many do not work and some take all kinds of crazy drugs.

At night to come in conflicts with these groups of intoxicated mongoloids is dangerous.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/753644-man-suspected-of-the-fatal-stabbing-of-german-bar-owner-taken-into-custody-koh-samui/

RIP

yes totally agree knowing KPG very well for 25 years this is exactly the scenario i envisaged.

[mataleo]

[ParadiseLost]

One thing that surprised me about Ko Toa is how late its bars shut. Walking home in the dark on a beach pitch black isn't a good idea. Why did they return to their hotel that way is there lit up areas on the beach now? I've been there twice and there was no lighting next to the beach. Also there is news reports of a second weapon a stick, can anyone confirm this? And the Chris Ware going home is to me strange, if it were my best mate from childhood killed I'd stay and try to help find out who did this to him. The gangster theory seems a little far fetched more over its a national vacationing on Ko To a who has returned home by now.

People like walking along the beach at night because it is a beautiful place. They certainly don't do it to get themselves raped and murdered.

Yes, the Chris Ware thing is strange - some people are strange. But the DNA testing appears to have cleared him.

The gangster theory is farfetched? Really? Why? They are everywhere in Thailand. A vacationing Thai? You think there are no gangsters on Koh Tao? That's a bit naive. Pick an island - any island - and it has a local mafia or three.. .and Koh Tao's is small and totally insular. You'd have trouble getting anyone to bear witness against such a person, unless the police jailed all of the guy's friends and all of his family.

The scenario that has been looming in my mind the whole time has been: Entitled youngster (that's 20s to me) of local mafia family - and one or two of his mates.... used to acting with total impunity, which, over the years, has made the little bastard into an egomaniacal bastard, capable of almost anything. Zipped on speed and booze - the world's best combination for having stupid ideas and actually following through on them. They decide to follow these two or happen upon them and decide to have a go at the girl, and things turn uglier and uglier. If there'd been an argument between the tourists and someone who fancies himself as a local "big dick" with an even more inflated (and falsely based) sense of pride than your average Thai male, that would make perfect sense - and explain the heights of the anger and cruelty. Speeding off his teats, he rounds up a mate or two to "teach them a lesson about who is important around here and showing "the proper respect." And, as always in his life... he gets away with it.

This was the first scenario dreamed up by most people who have lived here awhile... it was certainly the first guess of several people I know who lived in Koh Tao for extended periods. But these police clowns, keen not to implicate a Thai, in line with the nationalistic fantasies of their boss, (Quote: "I cannot believe a Thai person did this"), have been bungling about Keystone-style trying to blame migrant workers who normally wouldn't say boo to a mouse... aggressive Burmese migrant workers don't last long in places like koh Tao - they have no protection whatsoever, and as we have seen, are the first people to get blamed. Koh Tao would not be the place to be a Burmese criminal.

So finally they get on the right track... and it will be too late, and the guy will get away with it.

After 20 years on the islands I can say: Spot on.

It has here on the islands, many thai adolescents with rich parents.

Many do not work and some take all kinds of crazy drugs.

At night to come in conflicts with these groups of intoxicated mongoloids is dangerous.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/753644-man-suspected-of-the-fatal-stabbing-of-german-bar-owner-taken-into-custody-koh-samui/

RIP

yes totally agree knowing KPG very well for 25 years this is exactly the scenario i envisaged.

+1

However, there is no real evidence that the two were together, or even knew each other. It could be that the male victim was skinny dipping and heard the girl's cries for help. When he came to her aid he was jumped from behind. The girl was most likely killed to prevent her telling the story.

I am astonished at the lack of decorum, decency, sensitivity shown here on TV, by posters discussing intimate and embarrassing details, with self-assured expertise - most of whom have been proven completely wrong.

Perhaps what is missing on social media is the ability to measure poster's reputations.

Edited September 22, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[Mackie]

New information. Allegedly the victims may have known their killer/killers. According to the latest Hannah, David or some of their friends may have had some sort of a relationship or even one night stand with a new suspect.

Thai victim 'was trying to help'

The father of a British man murdered in Thailand believes his son had stepped in to help his fellow victim when they were both brutally killed on an island.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/thai-victim-trying-help-050753345.html#75yRnxi

He told the Daily Mail: " It has become clearer and clearer that it is quite likely David was stepping in to help a girl who was in trouble.

"That would be absolutely in his character."

The body of Miss Witheridge, 23, has been brought back to the UK, her family said, as they released a statement saying they were "broken" by the tragedy.

While Thai media reports suggest there are now two main suspects in the investigation Police Colonel Kissana Phathanacharoen said: "There are more than two suspects. It is too early to say how many suspects we are looking at."

Yesterday the force said they are investigating new evidence suggesting that the murders may have been due to "sexual jealousy".

A spokesman for the Royal Thai Police said that the force was also looking into claims that the pair had a row with a Thai man in a bar before they were killed.

Mr Phathanacharoen said: "We have discovered fresh evidence which could lead to a new suspect who may have had a relationship or one night stand with Hannah or one of her friends or David the night before they were killed.

"We have asked the Metropolitan Police to go back and make enquiries of Hannah's friends on this matter.

"The liaison officer here in Bangkok is working on getting that statement. The faster we get it, the faster we may be able to get the bad guy.

"No lines of inquiry can be ruled out and we believe these crimes could have been motivated by sexual jealousy.

"Police have been made aware of reports that Hannah and David had a fight in a bar with a Thai man before they were killed, but cannot confirm if they are true."

Mr Miller said his family had not been given much information from Thai police on the progress of the investigation.

Mr Phathanacharoen said he would be happy to speak to Mr Miller and pass on any information about the investigation.

[lucaswallachia]

David was naked and his clothes & shoes on the beach. So he was either already there and had stripped him self or the killers had stripped him.

If the killers had stripped him then there might have been DNA on his clothes as well.

And surely the other clothing there as well must be a big clue since neither of them are wearing it on the CCTV pictures.

Edited September 22, 2014 by lucaswallachia

[CharlieH]

Apost and reply to it removed as insensitive.

Could members please try to be a bit more sensitive with their posts please as family members of the victims may be reading here.

Thank you.

[minikev]

I don't believe there will be a scapegoat in this case as the publicity is worldwide now. Let's not forget that should a patsy be taken the real killer or killers would be free to do it again. Weather the police want to catch the murderer/s because they committed a terrible crime or to save Thailand's tourism they need to get the real murderer/s.

The new government have shown no fear of big family gangster types since they came to power and I am confident they will follow this trail to wherever it takes them now.

With the latest reports it sounds like Hannah left before David and he went to look for her. Perhaps she was already been raped when he arrived and he tried to stop this?

All we can do really is wait and hope they catch him/them.

[lucaswallachia]

I don't believe there will be a scapegoat in this case as the publicity is worldwide now. Let's not forget that should a patsy be taken the real killer or killers would be free to do it again. Weather the police want to catch the murderer/s because they committed a terrible crime or to save Thailand's tourism they need to get the real murderer/s.

The new government have shown no fear of big family gangster types since they came to power and I am confident they will follow this trail to wherever it takes them now.

With the latest reports it sounds like Hannah left before David and he went to look for her. Perhaps she was already been raped when he arrived and he tried to stop this?

All we can do really is wait and hope they catch him/them.

But if he arrived afterwards then why is he naked?

[Soutpeel]

I don't believe there will be a scapegoat in this case as the publicity is worldwide now. Let's not forget that should a patsy be taken the real killer or killers would be free to do it again. Weather the police want to catch the murderer/s because they committed a terrible crime or to save Thailand's tourism they need to get the real murderer/s.

The new government have shown no fear of big family gangster types since they came to power and I am confident they will follow this trail to wherever it takes them now.

With the latest reports it sounds like Hannah left before David and he went to look for her. Perhaps she was already been raped when he arrived and he tried to stop this?

All we can do really is wait and hope they catch him/them.

I have refrained from commenting on this topic to date, but reading some of TV's CSI's conspriracy theories is just sad coming from self professed "educated westerners" and your no better than the names your calling the Thai's

but one suspects all that will happen now, is the BiB will p*ss about giving theories, leads and hitting dead ends in the hope the publicity dies down over this case and it disappears off the radar, as have so many other cases in Thailand over the years have done.

[Oziex1]

Don't agree that this will just quietly become unnewsworthy and be forgotten with time, trouble is when they arrest the real killers, will we believe they are the real killers.

[takkatan in the land]

the only evidence we have right now is that thai police is not going to find the murder

first they were blaming a british guys, then to the burmese, now they say they suspect of a mistery western woman......

perhaps one day we will read in all thai media that police arrested the killer because some good soul reported to the police about being witness of a drunk thai man in Nakhon Nowhere confessing that he killed that guys in koh tao, otherwise we wil never know who did that dreedful murder

[SirBser]

I found it really weird how BBKPOST are the only ones who issued a post stating the police had 2 suspects, a thai and burmese who worked at a bar next to the murder scene.

Now i see this information almost disappearing.

One of these 2 suspects is the one who was caught on CCTV running away from the beach 50 minutes after he walked down to the beach.

[arich666]

Hello, I've been lurking these threads since last week and I've decided to make an account to post something quite interesting.

Watch the last video at the bottom of this artcle, and pay close attention to a guy at the 38 second mark, who is at the crime scene with the police.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764576/My-David-died-hero-Father-backpacker-murdered-Thailand-says-son-tried-save-female-victim-s-revealed-raped-two-local-men.html

Now it's not exactly conclusive, but he looks remarkably like the guy on the left from the pictures Sean Mc posted on facebook last night, saying he was the leader.

Seems suspicious that he'd be with the police at the crime scene doesn't it.

[MJP]

Hello, I've been lurking these threads since last week and I've decided to make an account to post something quite interesting.

Watch the last video at the bottom of this artcle, and pay close attention to a guy at the 38 second mark, who is at the crime scene with the police.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764576/My-David-died-hero-Father-backpacker-murdered-Thailand-says-son-tried-save-female-victim-s-revealed-raped-two-local-men.html

Now it's not exactly conclusive, but he looks remarkably like the guy on the left from the pictures Sean Mc posted on facebook last night, saying he was the leader.

Seems suspicious that he'd be with the police at the crime scene doesn't it.

Really does too. Well spotted.

[Local Drunk]

Hello, I've been lurking these threads since last week and I've decided to make an account to post something quite interesting.

Watch the last video at the bottom of this artcle, and pay close attention to a guy at the 38 second mark, who is at the crime scene with the police.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764576/My-David-died-hero-Father-backpacker-murdered-Thailand-says-son-tried-save-female-victim-s-revealed-raped-two-local-men.html

Now it's not exactly conclusive, but he looks remarkably like the guy on the left from the pictures Sean Mc posted on facebook last night, saying he was the leader.

Seems suspicious that he'd be with the police at the crime scene doesn't it.

Dailymail is banned here... got another link to the vid?

[MJP]

Hello, I've been lurking these threads since last week and I've decided to make an account to post something quite interesting.

Watch the last video at the bottom of this artcle, and pay close attention to a guy at the 38 second mark, who is at the crime scene with the police.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764576/My-David-died-hero-Father-backpacker-murdered-Thailand-says-son-tried-save-female-victim-s-revealed-raped-two-local-men.html

Now it's not exactly conclusive, but he looks remarkably like the guy on the left from the pictures Sean Mc posted on facebook last night, saying he was the leader.

Seems suspicious that he'd be with the police at the crime scene doesn't it.

Dailymail is banned here... got another link to the vid?

See screen shot attached.

[mataleo]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/scot-goes-hiding-thai-island-4302708

Scotish man goimg in to hiding

Edited September 22, 2014 by mataleo

[Oscar2]

the locals say it was 2 thai man from bangkok who were staying in a hotel here

probably an element of truth as a few days ago it was not thai who had "dunnit"

source???

[joedot]

I no longer see the info on his facebook page. The picture of the 2 men and the post stating the owner of AC bar did it. Looks like somebody convinced him to take it down.

[MJP]

I no longer see the info on his facebook page. The picture of the 2 men and the post stating the owner of AC bar did it. Looks like somebody convinced him to take it down.

Loads of us have the page saved.