Opinions on Phuket housing, prices, and the new "shoehorned in - future slum" housing estates.

[illy]

I would appreciate some locals’ opinion on the situation of the ever growing housing estates in Phuket.

My situation is that I have been happily living in a lovely moo baan in Chalong considering it to be a ‘reasonable area’ until I have started looking around to move, as the landlord wants to sell, coupled with the Thai wife wanting to buy something.

Now I realize I live in a comparative paradise

House prices in my own village have almost doubled in 3 years and I am somewhat short of funds re buying into this area.[although I don’t see much actually selling]
I have been looking around to compare for a month now and probably visited 30 homes/estates and all I see when I look around the island is:

1:Homes that are quite nice and in good areas but cost 7-10 million baht up with many already pre sold before construction off the plan in the rather cramped new estates; by whom I don’t know. Chinese or Russian investors??

2: Homes that are brand new ,on new yet unfinished, housing estates that look like they would fit nicely in Detroit in a few years time [future slums] with no space for parking anything bigger than a Honda jazz and just horribly shoe-horned in to fit as many houses in the land area as possible without any thought to open space or ‘quality of living’ and being able to touch your neighbor with an outstretched hand. This even applies to some of these” hi so” developments near the British international School …they look like bomb shelters. unless you are on a corner-block you are hemmed in terribly and the asking prices are still very high. An example of one of the better ones such as this is the “88 estate” at Chalong. The houses are quite nice with small gardens but they are all exactly the same and reminds of a 60’ song that had the lyrics something like ”little boxes on the hillside …made of ticky tacky!! Prices still up around 7-8 million bht
Another one I saw was an estate in “Baan Jo” [chern Talay area] that will eventually have 700 homes in one estate with one entrance served by a road you can barely pass 2 pickup trucks on. Hate to think how that will work out in a year’s time

3: Homes that affordable and established but in villages that seem to have seen better days and have stalled in their development, grass growing long, security long gone, dogs roaming the streets, concrete fences and roads that have turned black with low season rain etc. LOTS of for sale and rent signs.

4: Homes that are affordable but you would be living in what I call a “Ya Ba, yapping dog, screaming kids, get your car keyed every night with karaoke blaring 24/ 7” areas.

Of course ,as a farang, i can’t get any money via a loan to buy a house from the bank even though I have been paying 35000 bht per month for 7 years on time, every time, and making and deposting 80000 -120000bht per month [in high season at least]

It all looks a bit bleak!!

Thoughts please fellow Phuketians…

illy

[NamKangMan]

"House prices in my own village have almost doubled in 3 years" - how can you say they have almost doubled when none of them are selling????

Please post the results of some recent camparative sales to back-up your claim.

[hkt83100]

Did you consider moving off the island?

[illy]

"House prices in my own village have almost doubled in 3 years" - how can you say they have almost doubled when none of them are selling????

Please post the results of some recent camparative sales to back-up your claim.

I know what you are getting at:

There are 3 houses in this village that have been for sale for 3 years and keep going up in price in the usual Thai style of doing business ie:.. put prices up when things don't move but they will not back down on price they would rather leave them empty. I see this often here. two houses have been empty for 3 years , still with for sale /rent signs on them.

However:

the very house I live in now was valued @ 3.2million bht when I first moved here 7 years ago. That was the offered price if I wanted to buy it. Now its 6.8million bht. on SCB bank valuation.

The house next doo,r less finished, less options like furniture, pool etc was 2.5million back then now valued @ 5 million.

A Thai friend, 3 houses down, bought his house for 3.8 million 3 years ago and actually recently sold privately for 5.5 million.

Also there a few newly built houses just being offered for sale, exactly the same plan as mine but on slightly larger plots, starting price empty, no fittings @ 6.9 million.

20/20 hindsight I know, but I did not want to buy back then, felt safer to rent [and still does actually]but the missus has different ideas.

Edited September 22, 2014 by illy

[illy]

Did you consider moving off the island?

not at all I like it here, have a good business, but its just getting expensive.. OR overinflated.... I would prefer to keep renting actually.

[DonaldBattles]

Quality of life is extremely important. Could you do your business some place else where you can buy a house for a reasonable price. I moved from Phuket to Chiang Rai 4 years ago. I live in the foothills of Doi Hang 7 km from town on 5 rai with two lakes. My quality of life has never been better.

In Chiang Rai with a good financial statement the banks will loan you money to buy a house. However, Chiang Rai prices are going up. Chiang Mai is saturated with 1 million people downtown.

[phuketsub]

That's a pretty good analysis of the state of the market, at least at the state when I last saw it upon leaving last April.

If you are really interested in buying in an estate, I would suggest first looking to see if the owners have managed to form a juristic entity to oversee it and, if so, what the fees are.

I have lived in those that fell clearly into your categories 3-4; it's cheap, but you get what you pay for.

I agree it is still very much a renter's market.

We (my wife) has a small place (townhouse) in an estate in Rassada and it has been on the market for over a year with no offers that would get us back what we invested.

That said, 35,000 bt/month is a huge amount to pay out every month, so you must be in a very nice place -- even if it is in Chalong.

[phuketsub]

btw: here is a link to the song I think you were referring to. We must think along the same lines as I have used it to describe the housing situation in Phuket before as well:

[KarenBravo]

The original post could have been written 10 years ago.

Houses and plots have been getting smaller and smaller over time. It has to be that way to make a profit for the developer as it's the price of the under-lying land that keeps going up. Building materials have also been going up and up in price.

It used to be that a house on a one rai plot of land was considered a normal size. Now, it's considered a "huge" plot of land.

Personally, I hate renting, but, as you have seen, the cost and quality of what is available and affordable would make me hate buying, as well.

Edited September 23, 2014 by KarenBravo

[illy]

that's a good one too. the one I am thinking about though was , I think, Pete Seeger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlSpc87Jfr0

btw: here is a link to the song I think you were referring to. We must think along the same lines as I have used it to describe the housing situation in Phuket before as well:

[stevenl]

btw: here is a link to the song I think you were referring to. We must think along the same lines as I have used it to describe the housing situation in Phuket before as well:

Thanks, I like that song.

[illy]

That's a pretty good analysis of the state of the market, at least at the state when I last saw it upon leaving last April.

If you are really interested in buying in an estate, I would suggest first looking to see if the owners have managed to form a juristic entity to oversee it and, if so, what the fees are.

I have lived in those that fell clearly into your categories 3-4; it's cheap, but you get what you pay for.

I agree it is still very much a renter's market.

We (my wife) has a small place (townhouse) in an estate in Rassada and it has been on the market for over a year with no offers that would get us back what we invested.

That said, 35,000 bt/month is a huge amount to pay out every month, so you must be in a very nice place -- even if it is in Chalong.

I really like Chalong , it has everything I like, access to shops [macro/Tesco/villa mart], the water @ Chalong bay, not far to the 'nice beaches of Ya Nui, Nai harn, Kata noi etc, close to administrative centres in Phuket town, new hospital just opened nearby, tax dept just up the road.

In my 7 years here I have only been robbed once, and the village is pretty quiet with good neighbours. the main problems are that most of my work is up north[but I don't fancy living up there] and that means negotiating the cluster^*#* of central/Tesco roadworks [although I have been using another way recently up past loch palm area] and with this idea of building this proposed under/overpass @ Chalong circle I think this area and especially Rawai will be basically isolated completely with regards to traffic movement north.

I have been very careful to check the maintenance or body corporate charges in those estates.. they seem to range form 10000 bht per year to 50000bht per year!

[illy]

The original post could have been written 10 years ago.

Houses and plots have been getting smaller and smaller over time. It has to be that way to make a profit for the developer as it's the price of the under-lying land that keeps going up. Building materials have also been going up and up in price.

It used to be that a house on a one rai plot of land was considered a normal size. Now, it's considered a "huge" plot of land.

Personally, I hate renting, but, as you have seen, the cost and quality of what is available and affordable would make me hate buying, as well.

the same thing is happening 'back home in farangland" too hence my comment about 'shoehorned future slums', which is exactly what happened back home, where the once new estates ten years ago have become really quite dodgy and awful with the associated socio economic problems one might expect.

I don't know why, though , they insist on doing this in the more expensive up market estates here in Phuket where just a little more garden space and soi width would ensure more buyers who don't want to live in such cramped spaces and would probably pay more for this. It seems the Thai developers just don't see this aspect at all.

Having said that the village planners where I live HAVE in fact done that with plenty of park land as well instead of everything being wall to wall concrete with not a tree in sight, but the houses are quite small for the asking prices

[stevenl]

Have you looked away from the estates?

[bubblegum]

The song used in the tv series "Weeds"

[falkan]

How about Inizio/88 Land and Houses Koh Kaew little bit cheaper, around 5 million..

[grumpyoldman]

Take the wife around to 10 possibilities in Kathu, narrow it down to 5 and then low-ball the sh*t out of all of them. Central island can get around the Central nonsense.

[illy]

Have you looked away from the estates?

yes have been looking at some 'free standing' homes but worry about the theft and break-ins in some areas. I see on other threads though that the asking price is usually inflated by about a million baht. not sure as yet about that.

[illy]

How about Inizio/88 Land and Houses Koh Kaew little bit cheaper, around 5 million..

they are not so bad but the 5 mill ones ARE exactly the ones I am talking about ,all crammed in with very close neighbours ,and no space , usually in middle of ten or more rows of house.the corner block ones with space are up around 7-8 mill.

when living in such close proximity all it takes is neighbours with screaming kids and / or 24/7 barking dogs and your life turns to crap!!

actually had a neighbour like that for 2 years, nearly hung myself!!

[stevenl]

Have you looked away from the estates?

yes have been looking at some 'free standing' homes but worry about the theft and break-ins in some areas. I see on other threads though that the asking price is usually inflated by about a million baht. not sure as yet about that.

Personally I would not want to live in an estate, but I believe the free standing homes are also better value for money.

[laolover88]

Quality of life is extremely important. Could you do your business some place else where you can buy a house for a reasonable price. I moved from Phuket to Chiang Rai 4 years ago. I live in the foothills of Doi Hang 7 km from town on 5 rai with two lakes. My quality of life has never been better.

In Chiang Rai with a good financial statement the banks will loan you money to buy a house. However, Chiang Rai prices are going up. Chiang Mai is saturated with 1 million people downtown.

Surely this the sane answer? For whatever reason..money..timing..you have missed the Phuket boat! However there are plenty of towns in Thailand, including Bangkok, with far worse housing problems and none of the Phuket amenities. I shudder to remember some of the stuff we looked in the wildernesses beyond On Nut!! Can you not relocate?:..there are still really good value parts of Thailand, which have most things (except the sea!)

[KarenBravo]

Only the wife wanting to buy?

Can't get financing to buy?

You want to continue renting?

Seems like the solution is obvious. Steal back the trousers from your wife.....

[steelepulse]

Just curious op, what size of land is being offered in these new housing estates that you say are stacked on top of each other? 200 sqm? 160 sqm? 240? 320?

[NamKangMan]

"House prices in my own village have almost doubled in 3 years" - how can you say they have almost doubled when none of them are selling????

Please post the results of some recent camparative sales to back-up your claim.

I know what you are getting at:

There are 3 houses in this village that have been for sale for 3 years and keep going up in price in the usual Thai style of doing business ie:.. put prices up when things don't move but they will not back down on price they would rather leave them empty. I see this often here. two houses have been empty for 3 years , still with for sale /rent signs on them.

However:

the very house I live in now was valued @ 3.2million bht when I first moved here 7 years ago. That was the offered price if I wanted to buy it. Now its 6.8million bht. on SCB bank valuation.

The house next doo,r less finished, less options like furniture, pool etc was 2.5million back then now valued @ 5 million.

A Thai friend, 3 houses down, bought his house for 3.8 million 3 years ago and actually recently sold privately for 5.5 million.

Also there a few newly built houses just being offered for sale, exactly the same plan as mine but on slightly larger plots, starting price empty, no fittings @ 6.9 million.

20/20 hindsight I know, but I did not want to buy back then, felt safer to rent [and still does actually]but the missus has different ideas.

"two houses have been empty for 3 years , still with for sale /rent signs on them." - so the listing price for these houses is useless as a gauge for valuing your own property.

"the very house I live in now was valued @ 3.2million bht when I first moved here 7 years ago." - by who, and on what basis?

"that was the offered price if I wanted to buy it." - the "offered price" or listed price, does not mean that is the true value of the property.

"Now its 6.8million bht. on SCB bank valuation." - who cares what SCB value the property at? I can pay some black money to an SCB valuer and have your property valued at 10 million baht. Remember where you are, and how things work here.

"The house next doo,r less finished, less options like furniture, pool etc was 2.5million back then now valued @ 5 million." - once again, by who? It may sit on the market for 3 years, like the other two houses, so being valued at 5 million baht is useless as that is not what the market is willing to pay for it. So, unless it can be sold, what it is valued at is useless.

"A Thai friend, 3 houses down, bought his house for 3.8 million 3 years ago and actually recently sold privately for 5.5 million." - ok, so, we have one recent comparable sale. The house was purchased 3 years ago for 3.8 million baht and sold recently for 5.5 million baht. "Double" 3.8 million baht is 7.6 million baht, but it only sold for 5.5 million baht. You said, "House prices in my own village have almost doubled in 3 years" - no, they obviously haven't.

Also there a few newly built houses just being offered for sale, exactly the same plan as mine but on slightly larger plots, starting price empty, no fittings @ 6.9 million." - it doesn't matter what they are "offering" them for if they sit on the market for 3 years and still do not sell. If they offered them for 10 million baht, would you say your house is worth 10 million baht?

"20/20 hindsight I know, but I did not want to buy back then, felt safer to rent" - and you should still continue to feel safer to rent. The Phuket property market is overvalued. Not to mention, the whole farang can not own land here issue.

"but the missus has different ideas." - of course she would, they all do. Buying property puts her "in the picture" so to speak. Where as, with renting, she has no claim over anything. Becareful.

With so many properties on the market here, and hardly any of them being sold, you have to ask, why is this the case, before you even consider buying one.

Edited September 23, 2014 by NamKangMan

[illy]

Just curious op, what size of land is being offered in these new housing estates that you say are stacked on top of each other? 200 sqm? 160 sqm? 240? 320?

usually about 60 - 70 Sq Wa.

the problem though is that the developer build the houses close to every boundary and leave no space for 'living'.

An example is the new '88 estate" in chalong. there IS a litle of bit of garden space and the land plots are 66.8 Sq Wa and the asking prices for just the house 'shell' is nearly 8 million for a 2 bedroom home.

I would like to keep renting where I am actually its a good place, but can't do much when the owner wants to sell.

[illy]

"House prices in my own village have almost doubled in 3 years" - how can you say they have almost doubled when none of them are selling????

Please post the results of some recent camparative sales to back-up your claim.

I know what you are getting at:

There are 3 houses in this village that have been for sale for 3 years and keep going up in price in the usual Thai style of doing business ie:.. put prices up when things don't move but they will not back down on price they would rather leave them empty. I see this often here. two houses have been empty for 3 years , still with for sale /rent signs on them.

However:

the very house I live in now was valued @ 3.2million bht when I first moved here 7 years ago. That was the offered price if I wanted to buy it. Now its 6.8million bht. on SCB bank valuation.

The house next doo,r less finished, less options like furniture, pool etc was 2.5million back then now valued @ 5 million.

A Thai friend, 3 houses down, bought his house for 3.8 million 3 years ago and actually recently sold privately for 5.5 million.

Also there a few newly built houses just being offered for sale, exactly the same plan as mine but on slightly larger plots, starting price empty, no fittings @ 6.9 million.

20/20 hindsight I know, but I did not want to buy back then, felt safer to rent [and still does actually]but the missus has different ideas.

"two houses have been empty for 3 years , still with for sale /rent signs on them." - so the listing price for these houses is useless as a gauge for valuing your own property.

"the very house I live in now was valued @ 3.2million bht when I first moved here 7 years ago." - by who, and on what basis?

"that was the offered price if I wanted to buy it." - the "offered price" or listed price, does not mean that is the true value of the property.

"Now its 6.8million bht. on SCB bank valuation." - who cares what SCB value the property at? I can pay some black money to an SCB valuer and have your property valued at 10 million baht. Remember where you are, and how things work here.

"The house next doo,r less finished, less options like furniture, pool etc was 2.5million back then now valued @ 5 million." - once again, by who? It may sit on the market for 3 years, like the other two houses, so being valued at 5 million baht is useless as that is not what the market is willing to pay for it. So, unless it can be sold, what it is valued at is useless.

"A Thai friend, 3 houses down, bought his house for 3.8 million 3 years ago and actually recently sold privately for 5.5 million." - ok, so, we have one recent comparable sale. The house was purchased 3 years ago for 3.8 million baht and sold recently for 5.5 million baht. "Double" 3.8 million baht is 7.6 million baht, but it only sold for 5.5 million baht. You said, "House prices in my own village have almost doubled in 3 years" - no, they obviously haven't.

Also there a few newly built houses just being offered for sale, exactly the same plan as mine but on slightly larger plots, starting price empty, no fittings @ 6.9 million." - it doesn't matter what they are "offering" them for if they sit on the market for 3 years and still do not sell. If they offered them for 10 million baht, would you say your house is worth 10 million baht?

"20/20 hindsight I know, but I did not want to buy back then, felt safer to rent" - and you should still continue to feel safer to rent. The Phuket property market is overvalued. Not to mention, the whole farang can not own land here issue.

"but the missus has different ideas." - of course she would, they all do. Buying property puts her "in the picture" so to speak. Where as, with renting, she has no claim over anything. Becareful.

With so many properties on the market here, and hardly any of them being sold, you have to ask, why is this the case, before you even consider buying one.

the house was offered to me by the same owner 7 years ago for that price of 3.2 million, so that how I know what it was worth, but I didn't want to buy , and still really don't have any real desire to buy.

Yes I am very aware of how the 'bank valuations" can work here with the money in the brown envelope situation!

Agree with all your points esp about continuing to rent and the over valuation of most properties here. I tend agree with the previous post comments of 'having missed the Phuket boat " re property.

yes "be careful' indeed!! I know about what we farangs can and cant do with properties and companies etc. I have been here 7 years , legal with work permit,company etc, so I know at least SOME of our situation. Wont say I know it all.. none of us probably do!

[illy]

Quality of life is extremely important. Could you do your business some place else where you can buy a house for a reasonable price. I moved from Phuket to Chiang Rai 4 years ago. I live in the foothills of Doi Hang 7 km from town on 5 rai with two lakes. My quality of life has never been better.

In Chiang Rai with a good financial statement the banks will loan you money to buy a house. However, Chiang Rai prices are going up. Chiang Mai is saturated with 1 million people downtown.

Surely this the sane answer? For whatever reason..money..timing..you have missed the Phuket boat! However there are plenty of towns in Thailand, including Bangkok, with far worse housing problems and none of the Phuket amenities. I shudder to remember some of the stuff we looked in the wildernesses beyond On Nut!! Can you not relocate?:..there are still really good value parts of Thailand, which have most things (except the sea!)

I actually love the sea and beaches here. it's a major reason I came to live here. I am not a bar /drinking person at all. The work I do is very related to tourism and hi end expat educational activities. Phuket is all that and more.

[davidjg]

Have you looked at Sun Palm Village in Chalong? Decent sized houses on reasonably sized land plots. It falls into the 6-10m category for buying but also in the 35k range for renting. The village is about 5 years old but they have just built about 5 brand new houses.

[NamKangMan]

"House prices in my own village have almost doubled in 3 years" - how can you say they have almost doubled when none of them are selling????

Please post the results of some recent camparative sales to back-up your claim.

I know what you are getting at:

There are 3 houses in this village that have been for sale for 3 years and keep going up in price in the usual Thai style of doing business ie:.. put prices up when things don't move but they will not back down on price they would rather leave them empty. I see this often here. two houses have been empty for 3 years , still with for sale /rent signs on them.

However:

the very house I live in now was valued @ 3.2million bht when I first moved here 7 years ago. That was the offered price if I wanted to buy it. Now its 6.8million bht. on SCB bank valuation.

The house next doo,r less finished, less options like furniture, pool etc was 2.5million back then now valued @ 5 million.

A Thai friend, 3 houses down, bought his house for 3.8 million 3 years ago and actually recently sold privately for 5.5 million.

Also there a few newly built houses just being offered for sale, exactly the same plan as mine but on slightly larger plots, starting price empty, no fittings @ 6.9 million.

20/20 hindsight I know, but I did not want to buy back then, felt safer to rent [and still does actually]but the missus has different ideas.

"two houses have been empty for 3 years , still with for sale /rent signs on them." - so the listing price for these houses is useless as a gauge for valuing your own property.

"the very house I live in now was valued @ 3.2million bht when I first moved here 7 years ago." - by who, and on what basis?

"that was the offered price if I wanted to buy it." - the "offered price" or listed price, does not mean that is the true value of the property.

"Now its 6.8million bht. on SCB bank valuation." - who cares what SCB value the property at? I can pay some black money to an SCB valuer and have your property valued at 10 million baht. Remember where you are, and how things work here.

"The house next doo,r less finished, less options like furniture, pool etc was 2.5million back then now valued @ 5 million." - once again, by who? It may sit on the market for 3 years, like the other two houses, so being valued at 5 million baht is useless as that is not what the market is willing to pay for it. So, unless it can be sold, what it is valued at is useless.

"A Thai friend, 3 houses down, bought his house for 3.8 million 3 years ago and actually recently sold privately for 5.5 million." - ok, so, we have one recent comparable sale. The house was purchased 3 years ago for 3.8 million baht and sold recently for 5.5 million baht. "Double" 3.8 million baht is 7.6 million baht, but it only sold for 5.5 million baht. You said, "House prices in my own village have almost doubled in 3 years" - no, they obviously haven't.

Also there a few newly built houses just being offered for sale, exactly the same plan as mine but on slightly larger plots, starting price empty, no fittings @ 6.9 million." - it doesn't matter what they are "offering" them for if they sit on the market for 3 years and still do not sell. If they offered them for 10 million baht, would you say your house is worth 10 million baht?

"20/20 hindsight I know, but I did not want to buy back then, felt safer to rent" - and you should still continue to feel safer to rent. The Phuket property market is overvalued. Not to mention, the whole farang can not own land here issue.

"but the missus has different ideas." - of course she would, they all do. Buying property puts her "in the picture" so to speak. Where as, with renting, she has no claim over anything. Becareful.

With so many properties on the market here, and hardly any of them being sold, you have to ask, why is this the case, before you even consider buying one.

the house was offered to me by the same owner 7 years ago for that price of 3.2 million, so that how I know what it was worth, but I didn't want to buy , and still really don't have any real desire to buy.

Yes I am very aware of how the 'bank valuations" can work here with the money in the brown envelope situation!

Agree with all your points esp about continuing to rent and the over valuation of most properties here. I tend agree with the previous post comments of 'having missed the Phuket boat " re property.

yes "be careful' indeed!! I know about what we farangs can and cant do with properties and companies etc. I have been here 7 years , legal with work permit,company etc, so I know at least SOME of our situation. Wont say I know it all.. none of us probably do!

"the house was offered to me by the same owner 7 years ago for that price of 3.2 million, so that how I know what it was worth" - no, that's not what it was worth, that is just what he offered it to you for.

If he offered it to you for 10 million baht,was the house worth 10 million baht?

If he offered it to you for 1 million baht, was the house worth 1 million baht?

You need to have recent, and several, comparative sales, in the same area, excluding any out of line sales, to be able to make an informed assessment of the value of the property, and to gauge the property market.

You only have one recent comparative sale to go on. The recent sale of only one other property is not really enough to make an assessment of the value of your property.

[steelepulse]

Just curious op, what size of land is being offered in these new housing estates that you say are stacked on top of each other? 200 sqm? 160 sqm? 240? 320?

usually about 60 - 70 Sq Wa.

the problem though is that the developer build the houses close to every boundary and leave no space for 'living'.

An example is the new '88 estate" in chalong. there IS a litle of bit of garden space and the land plots are 66.8 Sq Wa and the asking prices for just the house 'shell' is nearly 8 million for a 2 bedroom home.

I would like to keep renting where I am actually its a good place, but can't do much when the owner wants to sell.

Those are some fat margins they are working off of. Figure 6 houses per rai, and where those are located and when the land was bought, I can't see more than 3-3.5 million/rai, so each plot is around 500-600K. Figure a decent but basic 150 sqm house at 20K sqm totaling 3 million, so all in you're looking at a total cost less than 4 million per house selling for 8 million.

Edited September 23, 2014 by steelepulse