Cambodia. To go or not to go?

[mrdome]

Come to Kampot and check it out. It's great.

Cambodia is what you make of it - I love it - not Phnom Penh so much though, the traffic kills it.

People have the right to not like a country but in the case of some of the Cambodia haters, I'd love to know where did you go? How long did you spend there and what did you do?... I've been going since 2003.

And like Cheryl indicated, it may have been you/may have had the same result in a different country.

[fey]

Come to Kampot and check it out. It's great.

Cambodia is what you make of it - I love it - not Phnom Penh so much though, the traffic kills it.

People have the right to not like a country but in the case of some of the Cambodia haters, I'd love to know where did you go? How long did you spend there and what did you do?... I've been going since 2003.

And like Cheryl indicated, it may have been you/may have had the same result in a different country.

It's not all what you make of it. Some places suck more then others Most people would agree on objective criteria that make this true.

As already mentioned the food is sub par, there is disease, extreme poverty etc. If you think it's a good living standard give your reasons? The visa?

Been to Phenom Pehn, Sihanoukville, SR as possible slternatives to Thailand and as said before SR was the only place passable as interesting to live in. Did enjoy things lkke mountain biking, ocean etc but ghe negatives outweighed the positives.

Maybe I missed some positives???

[Sheryl]

Yes, you did. Quite a few of them. Particularly if you did not like Phnom Penh and the fantastic range of reasonably priced western food (all cuisines) available there.

There is HIV and STD in Thailand too and rates are about the same as in Camb. HIv prevalnce in Cambodia has come way, way down in recent years. Though anyone having unprotected sex with a bar girl or prostitute, in Camb OR Thailand, is taking a real risk. Prevalence in the general population is low though. In any case the OP is apparently married.

Other health conditions have also greatly improved, especially in PP where the tap water now is drinkable. Years ago it was typhoid central, no more.

Issue about health care is valid though, it is still quite poor. Between that and the fact that OP's wife is Thai, might make sense to look at either SR or BTB as both are pretty easy access to Thailand overland. Of the two I would say BTB is more Thai-friendly. Though if wife is from Issan, SR might be advantageous.

[Jip99]

Jip99 - Actually it's the tourist visa thats going from $20 to $30. The ordinary visa (often wrongly refered to as business visa) is going up from $25 to $35 ie the visa that you can extend for 3, 6 or 12 months.

"Your also not saving any money. Factor in crap food like noodle soup made of ramen and dishes with nill nutritional value and no spice or flavoring where each dish cost 2-3 times more then Thailand."

I just thought I'd back up feys comment with some photos of the increadably expensive & non nutritional food on offer in Cambodia:-

http://www.dropshots.com/siamdaze/albums/479356

Sorry khmerdaze - my mistake, not thinking before posting.

[Jip99]

Come to Kampot and check it out. It's great.

Cambodia is what you make of it - I love it - not Phnom Penh so much though, the traffic kills it.

People have the right to not like a country but in the case of some of the Cambodia haters, I'd love to know where did you go? How long did you spend there and what did you do?... I've been going since 2003.

And like Cheryl indicated, it may have been you/may have had the same result in a different country.

It's not all what you make of it. Some places suck more then others Most people would agree on objective criteria that make this true.

As already mentioned the food is sub par, there is disease, extreme poverty etc. If you think it's a good living standard give your reasons? The visa?

Been to Phenom Pehn, Sihanoukville, SR as possible slternatives to Thailand and as said before SR was the only place passable as interesting to live in. Did enjoy things lkke mountain biking, ocean etc but ghe negatives outweighed the positives.

Maybe I missed some positives???

Based on my experiences your observations are way off the mark.

I, and a few friends, go to Cambodia for the culinary benefits. I am not talking local cuisine which is pretty bland in Thailand and Cambodia but the availability of good, well-priced, international fare.

OK, if you are living in Bangkok or Chiang Mai your perspective will be different.

Even local food in SNV can be far better than Thai - a whole row of decent BBQ restaurants running parallel to Ocheautal Beach serving genuine barbequed food, not what the Thais laughingly call BBQ.

In places like Olive and Olive you find great Mediterranean food that I have not seen in Thailand.

Siem Reap obviously has even greater choice because of the tourist factor. Likewise Phohm Penh offers a wide variety of places.

Siem Reap is probably the one place I would not live (I may.if I stayed out at Wat Bo area or similar and wasn't taken for a tourist every time I ventured into town).

Worth a look are Battambang, Kampot, Kep - for a someone with a Thai wife Koh Kong is certainly Thai friendly from my experience.

I would like to hear from fey about the places in Thailand that he considers so superior to those that he denigrates in Cambodia.

[craigt3365]

I'd love to check out Battambang, Kampot, and Kep. I read a report about Battambang and it sounded quite nice.

This is a nice article:

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2012/01/08/travel/20120108_kohrong.html

And this looks like a great place to stay:

http://lajavableue-kampot.fr/index_eng.html

[craigt3365]

Very interesting article in the Bangkok Post today. Definitely worth a read if you have the time. Sorry, but can't put a link here due to their rules.

[mrdome]

Come to Kampot and check it out. It's great.

Cambodia is what you make of it - I love it - not Phnom Penh so much though, the traffic kills it.

People have the right to not like a country but in the case of some of the Cambodia haters, I'd love to know where did you go? How long did you spend there and what did you do?... I've been going since 2003.

And like Cheryl indicated, it may have been you/may have had the same result in a different country.

It's not all what you make of it. Some places suck more then others Most people would agree on objective criteria that make this true.

As already mentioned the food is sub par, there is disease, extreme poverty etc. If you think it's a good living standard give your reasons? The visa?

Been to Phenom Pehn, Sihanoukville, SR as possible slternatives to Thailand and as said before SR was the only place passable as interesting to live in. Did enjoy things lkke mountain biking, ocean etc but ghe negatives outweighed the positives.

Maybe I missed some positives???

See this is why you were an idiot when you wrote that - sorry to say but it's the truth.

"Sucking" is not an objective thing or that would mean 100% of the expats living in Cambodia hate it. Show me any country where that is the case, except some war-torn place.

On the other hand, plenty of expats hate it in very developed countries, so it has nothing to do with that and we are back at "it's what you make it/it depends what you are open to/looking for".

The fact is, Cambodia has plenty of long term expats who live there permanently and who are very happy there.

"If you think it's a good living standard give your reasons?" ... I never said it like that but it is possible to achieve one for yourself because I have seen it among the many Westerners living near Kampot - plus some of the locals. Things are getting better all the time. Get out there and speak to folks.

I go to Kampot and I just feel at home.The possibilities are endless. I have friends there now and own property (thanks to a poster here on TV mentioning a certain real estate company in town. I asked around, liked what I heard, went there and liked the guy, who became my legal representative and my life has literally been changed). I could afford land for the first time in my life; I can design the house of my dreams.

I don't need an air conditioned mall. You've been in a good selection of them - you've pretty much seen them all - screw 'em, people don't need malls. I love the countryside in Cambodia, learning about safe food production (we were driving around near Bokor Mountain village and I had thought before "if only there was an organic farm around here" and whaddayaknow? There is one!), chickens, which plants grow best in a garden, how to keep bees, etc.

Cambodia lets you reinvent yourself, (not that other countries don't, of course, but it's gold for those who can run with it) in my case "freeing" the farmer I never knew I had in me.

I owe so much to the place already and would like to help make things better (start small by providing jobs).

[mrdome]

I'd love to check out Battambang, Kampot, and Kep. I read a report about Battambang and it sounded quite nice.

This is a nice article:

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2012/01/08/travel/20120108_kohrong.html

And this looks like a great place to stay:

http://lajavableue-kampot.fr/index_eng.html

Just beware of the annual flooding around Battambang. I had considered that area as well but that was the "deal breaker" in the end.

[fey]

Come to Kampot and check it out. It's great.

Cambodia is what you make of it - I love it - not Phnom Penh so much though, the traffic kills it.

People have the right to not like a country but in the case of some of the Cambodia haters, I'd love to know where did you go? How long did you spend there and what did you do?... I've been going since 2003.

And like Cheryl indicated, it may have been you/may have had the same result in a different country.

It's not all what you make of it. Some places suck more then others Most people would agree on objective criteria that make this true.

As already mentioned the food is sub par, there is disease, extreme poverty etc. If you think it's a good living standard give your reasons? The visa?

Been to Phenom Pehn, Sihanoukville, SR as possible slternatives to Thailand and as said before SR was the only place passable as interesting to live in. Did enjoy things lkke mountain biking, ocean etc but ghe negatives outweighed the positives.

Maybe I missed some positives???

See this is why you were an idiot when you wrote that - sorry to say but it's the truth.

"Sucking" is not an objective thing or that would mean 100% of the expats living in Cambodia hate it. Show me any country where that is the case, except some war-torn place.

On the other hand, plenty of expats hate it in very developed countries, so it has nothing to do with that and we are back at "it's what you make it/it depends what you are open to/looking for".

The fact is, Cambodia has plenty of long term expats who live there permanently and who are very happy there.

"If you think it's a good living standard give your reasons?" ... I never said it like that but it is possible to achieve one for yourself because I have seen it among the many Westerners living near Kampot - plus some of the locals. Things are getting better all the time. Get out there and speak to folks.

I go to Kampot and I just feel at home.The possibilities are endless. I have friends there now and own property (thanks to a poster here on TV mentioning a certain real estate company in town. I asked around, liked what I heard, went there and liked the guy, who became my legal representative and my life has literally been changed). I could afford land for the first time in my life; I can design the house of my dreams.

I don't need an air conditioned mall. You've been in a good selection of them - you've pretty much seen them all - screw 'em, people don't need malls. I love the countryside in Cambodia, learning about safe food production (we were driving around near Bokor Mountain village and I had thought before "if only there was an organic farm around here" and whaddayaknow? There is one!), chickens, which plants grow best in a garden, how to keep bees, etc.

Cambodia lets you reinvent yourself, (not that other countries don't, of course, but it's gold for those who can run with it) in my case "freeing" the farmer I never knew I had in me.

I owe so much to the place already and would like to help make things better (start small by providing jobs).

in fact, it's in the war torn places where people are "enjoying another day in paradise".

The sunsets are to die for.

[INV]

Come to Kampot and check it out. It's great.

Cambodia is what you make of it - I love it - not Phnom Penh so much though, the traffic kills it.

People have the right to not like a country but in the case of some of the Cambodia haters, I'd love to know where did you go? How long did you spend there and what did you do?... I've been going since 2003.

And like Cheryl indicated, it may have been you/may have had the same result in a different country.

It's not all what you make of it. Some places suck more then others Most people would agree on objective criteria that make this true.

As already mentioned the food is sub par, there is disease, extreme poverty etc. If you think it's a good living standard give your reasons? The visa?

Been to Phenom Pehn, Sihanoukville, SR as possible slternatives to Thailand and as said before SR was the only place passable as interesting to live in. Did enjoy things lkke mountain biking, ocean etc but ghe negatives outweighed the positives.

Maybe I missed some positives???

See this is why you were an idiot when you wrote that - sorry to say but it's the truth.

"Sucking" is not an objective thing or that would mean 100% of the expats living in Cambodia hate it. Show me any country where that is the case, except some war-torn place.

On the other hand, plenty of expats hate it in very developed countries, so it has nothing to do with that and we are back at "it's what you make it/it depends what you are open to/looking for".

The fact is, Cambodia has plenty of long term expats who live there permanently and who are very happy there.

"If you think it's a good living standard give your reasons?" ... I never said it like that but it is possible to achieve one for yourself because I have seen it among the many Westerners living near Kampot - plus some of the locals. Things are getting better all the time. Get out there and speak to folks.

I go to Kampot and I just feel at home.The possibilities are endless. I have friends there now and own property (thanks to a poster here on TV mentioning a certain real estate company in town. I asked around, liked what I heard, went there and liked the guy, who became my legal representative and my life has literally been changed). I could afford land for the first time in my life; I can design the house of my dreams.

I don't need an air conditioned mall. You've been in a good selection of them - you've pretty much seen them all - screw 'em, people don't need malls. I love the countryside in Cambodia, learning about safe food production (we were driving around near Bokor Mountain village and I had thought before "if only there was an organic farm around here" and whaddayaknow? There is one!), chickens, which plants grow best in a garden, how to keep bees, etc.

Cambodia lets you reinvent yourself, (not that other countries don't, of course, but it's gold for those who can run with it) in my case "freeing" the farmer I never knew I had in me.

I owe so much to the place already and would like to help make things better (start small by providing jobs).

As a foreigner you are not allowed to own land...how did you do it?

Most common way is you lease/rent it for 99 years

[johnnyj]

Honestly, if you are asking here... Don't come. Cambodia is an interesting place, but if you have to ask the answer is........ No!

[aTomsLife]

Honestly, if you are asking here... Don't come. Cambodia is an interesting place, but if you have to ask the answer is........ No!

Oh, really? So because the OP is responsible enough to do some basic research about a place he's considering relocating to, he shouldn't go?

[TheSiemReaper]

$100 a month is pushing it but not impossible for a crappy Khmer style apartment with Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi and indeed Internet is generally better than Thailand (it's hard to see how it could be worse). Visas are simply an annual cost of approx. $285 per person (unless you are from one of the 8 nations that are required to do more paperwork - this applies to places like Burundi). Bikes (motorized and non-motorized) are cheap and cheerful (could spend as little as $200/$20 but could spend as much more as you want too). Cambodia is, in most respects, much easier to deal with than Thailand. It's also much cheaper (apart from electricity bills).

[tonybemv]

Short and sweet - in my opinion, Cambodia sucks. Try Dominican Republic.

I like this comment. Its a sh"thole. Waited 5 weeks for a set of contact lenses. and everywhere to walk around tuk tuk tuk tuk tuk tuk tuk tuk tuk tuk hey sir tuk tuk tuk tuk. never again. will they not get it that it is bloody ugly to ask every single non local for a tuk tuk or dop. some drivers ask 6 and 7 times. like on the 7th time the bell is going to go off and im going to want the thing. loser country. never will go back.

[tonybemv]

Short and sweet - in my opinion, Cambodia sucks. Try Dominican Republic.

Your also not saving any money. Factor in crap food like noodle soup made of ramen and dishes with nill nutritional value and no spice or flavoring where each dish cost 2-3 times more then Thailand.

That really adds up each month, so add at least $150 a month more to the savings you think your getting on rent if you can do street stalls.

The HIV and STD rate there is also sky high. Also a catalog of many other contractable diseases you may not need to actively worry about in Thailand on a daily basis.

You will slso need to be ready to fly back into Bangkok to diagnose and treat them, so have a plan ready especially if your going solo.

Siem Reap was the one passable place where I would consider staying long term if I had too, like for visa issues. There is some good mountain biking and Angkor Wat and a somewhat Chiang Mai type vibe.

Stay away from Sihanoukville, it sucks.

fly back to bangkok? but what about the "visa"??? what a joke.

[Fullstop]

^ Re entry permit.

[mrdome]

As a foreigner you are not allowed to own land...how did you do it?

Send me a PM if interested.

[mrdome]

Honestly, if you are asking here... Don't come. Cambodia is an interesting place, but if you have to ask the answer is........ No!

I love these replies that don't bother giving any why's/reasons.

And really, nobody is here to convince anyone. If it doesn't work for you it just doesn't and you look somewhere else. No country or area is perfect, that's for sure. You can only "rearrange" things in your head to see it like that.

Live where you love(ideally) every minute of it - not because it's supposedly cheap. If you are miserable and hate it, your bad energy will just pollute your surroundings and affect everyone and everything you come in contact with.

I gotta laugh though about some of the posters here. If you are bothered by being asked if you want a tuk tuk several times a day, then you really haven't been around South & SE Asia much (SE Asia is a paradise compared to India in that aspect f.e.). If you can't scrape together enough compassion that these guys have to bring home money to feed their families and may have been waiting for hours for a fare, then yeah, it's not for you, but neither will many of the other non-developed places be.

[tonybemv]

Honestly, if you are asking here... Don't come. Cambodia is an interesting place, but if you have to ask the answer is........ No!

I love these replies that don't bother giving any why's/reasons.

And really, nobody is here to convince anyone. If it doesn't work for you it just doesn't and you look somewhere else. No country or area is perfect, that's for sure. You can only "rearrange" things in your head to see it like that.

Live where you love(ideally) every minute of it - not because it's supposedly cheap. If you are miserable and hate it, your bad energy will just pollute your surroundings and affect everyone and everything you come in contact with.

I gotta laugh though about some of the posters here. If you are bothered by being asked if you want a tuk tuk several times a day, then you really haven't been around South & SE Asia much (SE Asia is a paradise compared to India in that aspect f.e.). If you can't scrape together enough compassion that these guys have to bring home money to feed their families and may have been waiting for hours for a fare, then yeah, it's not for you, but neither will many of the other non-developed places be.

If they have been waiting hours for a fare, then why are they not shouting across the street at everyone instead of just foreigners. and why to ask upwards of 4 and five times? that and that there will be 4 or 5 of them clustered together and after asking 6 times they all make some little joke and laugh. they laugh because their families dont have food that night?

[Fullstop]

I have worked here in Thailand as a teacher for 7 years. Just found out...no 3rd teacher license waiver. Got two weeks notice from my new school to finish at the end of October. Thailand doesn't want me anymore.

Cambodia? I'm going.

If it IS total crap...I'll hop a plane to China.

[TheSiemReaper]

I have worked here in Thailand as a teacher for 7 years. Just found out...no 3rd teacher license waiver. Got two weeks notice from my new school to finish at the end of October. Thailand doesn't want me anymore.

Cambodia? I'm going.

If it IS total crap...I'll hop a plane to China.

Your fall back plan is dreadful. If you think Cambodia's crap - then China will be a nightmare. I went in the opposite direction from China to Cambodia. It's a million times easier and nicer in Cambodia than China.

[Fullstop]

I worked in China several years ago. I believe it was worse than it is now. But I just need a quick injection of funds from China. I'm a whore.

[fey]

Wow. Just found one. $100 a month, wifi, tv. http://www.sihanoukvilleproperty.com/more/product/741

I wonder how other guys are living there. Do you own a motorbike? Where to buy food? Can I bring my Thai wife to live there?

on victory hill sihanoukville you can get a decent place even with a sea view for around $150 a month. problem is your life will be loafing on an average beach and visiting the same street of bars. nothing else to do there. you can get motos around cheaply or walk downtown, but again NOTHING to do long term. after 2-3 weeks i had to get out and i'm used to living solo in remote areas.

downtown again touty beach bars and usual asian stores, very empty in low season.

the problem with cambodia is that its not really cheaper. even street food is triple what you would pay in thailand. food and rent evens out to be the same as living in thailand, but you are eating bland fried unhealthy stuff in cambodia. not good long term. if you move up to restaurants it gets real expensive like western prices.

[Tomtomtom69]

IF ur married or over 50 the visa in Thailand is cheaper ( $285 Cambodia vs $182/year) yes there are more hoops to jump thru but not a hassle.

marriage and retirement visa is 1900 baht/year which is $60. where did you get $182 from?

PLUS:

3,800 for a 1 year multi re entry permit ( as in Cambodia the $285 is for multi entry)

Yeah but in relation to the OPs point about the visa hassles in Thailand it's not just the money it's the hassle - which you seem to be forgetting. A retirement visa has it's conditions including how much money you have in the bank. If you're broke and penniless you won't get the extension even if you can pay the extension fee. On the other hand, anyone with around US$300 will get a 1-year Cambodian visa extension no questions asked and no other requirements.

Marriage visas in Thailand are much the same, the only "easy" ones are the multi entry ones with a 3-month stay limit per entry you get from Savannakhet or back home with no financial requirements. But even once you have one you have to leave every 90 days so the Cambo system is still a lot easier to deal with.

[Tomtomtom69]

I have worked here in Thailand as a teacher for 7 years. Just found out...no 3rd teacher license waiver. Got two weeks notice from my new school to finish at the end of October. Thailand doesn't want me anymore.

Cambodia? I'm going.

If it IS total crap...I'll hop a plane to China.

Your fall back plan is dreadful. If you think Cambodia's crap - then China will be a nightmare. I went in the opposite direction from China to Cambodia. It's a million times easier and nicer in Cambodia than China.

Nah...that's only because 1) you probably don't speak enough Chinese hence the frustration about not being able to speak English everywhere in China and 2) there is no comparison when it comes to infrastructure - Cambodia has atrocious infrastructure and getting anything done can be extremely frustrating. Certainly not easier than in China except you're more likely to find someone who can speak English. And of course Cambodian visas are easier and just about the easiest in the world - hell you just pay the money and you can stay. No need to even lift a finger to press the button on a pen. Pay up and you can stay (almost) indefinitely - far easier than China of course.

Sorry I almost forgot - Cambodia, apart from some bad air quality due to traffic issues in Phnom Penh obviously doesn't have the air quality issues that China does. The weather is also a lot better but like in Thailand accept that there is essentially no winter in most parts of the country - it's always hot but for about half the year it's also fairly dry and mostly sunny too.

[Tomtomtom69]

Honestly, if you are asking here... Don't come. Cambodia is an interesting place, but if you have to ask the answer is........ No!

I love these replies that don't bother giving any why's/reasons.

And really, nobody is here to convince anyone. If it doesn't work for you it just doesn't and you look somewhere else. No country or area is perfect, that's for sure. You can only "rearrange" things in your head to see it like that.

Live where you love(ideally) every minute of it - not because it's supposedly cheap. If you are miserable and hate it, your bad energy will just pollute your surroundings and affect everyone and everything you come in contact with.

I gotta laugh though about some of the posters here. If you are bothered by being asked if you want a tuk tuk several times a day, then you really haven't been around South & SE Asia much (SE Asia is a paradise compared to India in that aspect f.e.). If you can't scrape together enough compassion that these guys have to bring home money to feed their families and may have been waiting for hours for a fare, then yeah, it's not for you, but neither will many of the other non-developed places be.

If they have been waiting hours for a fare, then why are they not shouting across the street at everyone instead of just foreigners. and why to ask upwards of 4 and five times? that and that there will be 4 or 5 of them clustered together and after asking 6 times they all make some little joke and laugh. they laugh because their families dont have food that night?

Don't worry about those tuk-tuk drivers. Just ignore them. I've stepped out of a self-drive rental car and been shouted at by tuk-tuk drivers on the riverfront in Phnom Penh "where you go?" well like I'm going with them, I just stepped out of my car so clearly everywhere I'm going is by car! But of course the tuk tuk drivers just want another fare and assume you would be so dumb as to step out of your own car and go with them. At the time I was simply heading for an ATM and then back to my car. I agree that getting hassled by them is an annoyance but I've learned to shrug them off. Then again it's not like they have anyone else to ask for a fare - there are few locals walking in the riverfront area that are not employed in restaurants/shops/hotels/massage places and those that you do see usually arrive by tuk-tuk/motorcycle/car etc. so hence don't walk long enough to be hassled.

[Fullstop]

Don't worry about those tuk-tuk drivers. Just ignore them. I've stepped out of a self-drive rental car and been shouted at by tuk-tuk drivers on the riverfront in Phnom Penh "where you go?

I get that when I'm walking along with a bike helmet in my hand...not the sharpest knives in the drawer.