Pigeon Pea or Sunn Hemp?

[WtFugarwe]

For first green manure of a soil worse than I could ever nightmare. Please teach me why you choose one over the other.

[kickstart]

I would look at it this way, what can you get hold of locally, our rice 500 found some sunn Hemp not so far from me ,in Lopburi ,which i have make a note

of,thanks. How far would that be for you.

Pigeon Pea I would like some seed, makes good hay or silage for cattle, but I have to go allmost to BKK for the seed , Patumtani.

Have a look at Mung Beans, To-wa Kee-oo in Thai , Konwon in the cassava thread uses them as a green manuru ,may be easyer to get hold of than the above.

Can you sauce a supply of Kee-Gie,chicken manure that would do some good ,as would a sub soiler or a heavy cultivator ,help to open up the land,would do it a

lot of good

[fredge45]

If using sunn hemp it's best to work some cow manure into the soil to provide the necessary bacteria for nitrogen fixing by the plants.

[kickstart]

If using sunn hemp it's best to work some cow manure into the soil to provide the necessary bacteria for nitrogen fixing by the plants.

I aggee with you ,but define "work some cow manure in to the soil" if this was Oz, UK ,USA, the manure would be appled then cultivated in to the soil then ploughed, but here,the manure would be applied then it would be a 3 disc plough, ploughed as deep as the tractor driver can get it ,bugger what you say, he will do it his way,and all the nutrients will be out of reach of the plants.

I do not know about OP's land but it sounds a bit bleak,if it has been worked befor ,a 7 disc plough would make a better job ,but it needs right conditions for it to work, after some rain,not in the middle of the dry season.If the op has his own kit Ok ,my neighbour had a guy in with a 25 HP 4 wheel drive,small plough,and he make a good job,better than a a big Ford with his plough.

I am lucky we rear a few cattle and I keep all the manure I can and spread it on the land ,now on my napier grass,it has helped the land no end.

But, I do not know where the OP is ,but can he find some cow manure,where he is .

Round here it is all most an industry bagging the manure up , loading it on to a truck and trailer and sending it all over the country,farmers get about 15 bart a bag ,if they bag it up them selfs,or about 7-9 bart a bag if the buyer bags it up, allso you need a lot per rie to do any good.

It is a thing of mine ,but a good cultivator braking up the land ,geting rid of the pan ,enabling the land to breath would do it a lot of good,then grow your green manure, I think you will see some results.

Regards .

KS.

Regards

KS

[fredge45]

It doesn't take much manure to introduce the bacteria necessary for the sunn hemp to form the nitrogen nodules. And most definitely not having to be worked in to the extent you are speaking of. I use a rototiller and that works just fine.

OP leaves out a lot of information so we are all giving advice blindly here. Hope that my definition of "working in" meets your requirement.

Edited October 4, 2014 by fredge45

[WtFugarwe]

_{OP here. I have inoculant.}

[kickstart]

It doesn't take much manure to introduce the bacteria necessary for the sunn hemp to form the nitrogen nodules. And most definitely not having to be worked in to the extent you are speaking of. I use a rototiller and that works just fine.

OP leaves out a lot of information so we are all giving advice blindly here. Hope that my definition of "working in" meets your requirement.

I think we come opposite sides of the big pond,the Altantic Ocean, a rototiler,to me is a tool for a back garden,a walk beind tool, in a field situation I would call one a rotavator , for the back of a tractor ,a tool I would not use in a field situation,unless it is a rice paddy,

All those blades rotating will mix mix up the soil and manure ,as you said ,but it will leave a smear underground especially on heavyer land,that water can not drain though,leaving a wet field.

They where popular in the UK a few years ago,we used one for stuble cultivation ,then the above problem come up, they where then abandoned to the headge bottom.

This being a tropical country, with monson rains,drainage is all the more important.

I still say in a field situation a cultivator would do the best job .

Regards

KS

[fredge45]

Work it in your own way... we are getting way beyond the original topic here.

[WtFugarwe]

Thank you fredge. I have a truck and I have inoculant. Pigeeon Pea or sunn hemp?

[kickstart]

Work it in your own way... we are getting way beyond the original topic here.

Working Land is allmost a science ,and yes we are geting way beyond the original topic.

But I get the impression that the OP will think that he will plant his pigeon pea,it will grow,plough it in ,then the next crop will grow to bumper yeilds.

But if the land is not right underneath ,not a lot will grow,like if it is an old rice paddy that sits in water after any rain ,not a lot will grow,and how about the PH.

1 km from me is a 50 rie field ,the guy rents the land ,tryed sugar cain that failed try cassava it grow ,but I do not think he make any thing on the crop,now growing sesame seed and mung beans,sesame seed looks OK, but the beans ,forget them.land is light ,this year not a lot of rain, has not helped,when it does rain ithe water sits in the field,on sand land.

To sort that land out is going to take a bit more than a crop of green manure ,and that is not the only land you can be certain.

So I think what I write is part of the topic.

I would grow pigeon pea look athttp://www.ldd.go.th/ Thailand Land Development Department for your local office ,for pigeon pea seed.

KS

[fredge45]

Personally I would go with the sunn hemp.

It is better adapted to the region having its origins in south Asia. When flowering it will attract many wonderful polinators thereby giving them a meal during a time when there isn't much food around for them normally.

If you have the correct innoculate then you might not need the cow manure. But, if the soil is as bad as you describe, the addition of the cow manure will help the plants just that much more during your initial planting.

I was pulling some very mature sunn hemp plants just yesterday and was amazed at the number and size of the nodules formed. The stems and leaves also hold a lot of nitrogen as well. I have used younger plants as layering materials in a compost bin and can get strong wiffs of amonia in just a couple days of decomposition. Tells the story right there.

Good luck and happy farming!

[fredge45]

It doesn't take much manure to introduce the bacteria necessary for the sunn hemp to form the nitrogen nodules. And most definitely not having to be worked in to the extent you are speaking of. I use a rototiller and that works just fine.

OP leaves out a lot of information so we are all giving advice blindly here. Hope that my definition of "working in" meets your requirement.

I think we come opposite sides of the big pond,the Altantic Ocean, a rototiler,to me is a tool for a back garden,a walk beind tool, in a field situation I would call one a rotavator , for the back of a tractor ,a tool I would not use in a field situation,unless it is a rice paddy,

All those blades rotating will mix mix up the soil and manure ,as you said ,but it will leave a smear underground especially on heavyer land,that water can not drain though,leaving a wet field.

They where popular in the UK a few years ago,we used one for stuble cultivation ,then the above problem come up, they where then abandoned to the headge bottom.

This being a tropical country, with monson rains,drainage is all the more important.

I still say in a field situation a cultivator would do the best job .

Regards

KS

Sold a lot of the UK product called a Howard Rotovator on our side of the Atlantic. Great machines and sucessful when used in loamy soils rather than the clayye muck that passes for farming soil in most of the UK.

I probably missed a great opportunity by not going over to the UK and buying the used Rotovators to sell in the US.

[WtFugarwe]

Work it in your own way... we are getting way beyond the original topic here.

Working Land is allmost a science ,and yes we are geting way beyond the original topic.

But I get the impression that the OP will think that he will plant his pigeon pea,it will grow,plough it in ,then the next crop will grow to bumper yeilds.

But if the land is not right underneath ,not a lot will grow,like if it is an old rice paddy that sits in water after any rain ,not a lot will grow,and how about the PH.

1 km from me is a 50 rie field ,the guy rents the land ,tryed sugar cain that failed try cassava it grow ,but I do not think he make any thing on the crop,now growing sesame seed and mung beans,sesame seed looks OK, but the beans ,forget them.land is light ,this year not a lot of rain, has not helped,when it does rain ithe water sits in the field,on sand land.

To sort that land out is going to take a bit more than a crop of green manure ,and that is not the only land you can be certain.

So I think what I write is part of the topic.

I would grow pigeon pea look athttp://www.ldd.go.th/ Thailand Land Development Department for your local office ,for pigeon pea seed.

KS

[WtFugarwe]

I do not know where you got such an impression, mate. Certainly not from anything I said.

[kickstart]

It doesn't take much manure to introduce the bacteria necessary for the sunn hemp to form the nitrogen nodules. And most definitely not having to be worked in to the extent you are speaking of. I use a rototiller and that works just fine.

OP leaves out a lot of information so we are all giving advice blindly here. Hope that my definition of "working in" meets your requirement.

I think we come opposite sides of the big pond,the Altantic Ocean, a rototiler,to me is a tool for a back garden,a walk beind tool, in a field situation I would call one a rotavator , for the back of a tractor ,a tool I would not use in a field situation,unless it is a rice paddy,

All those blades rotating will mix mix up the soil and manure ,as you said ,but it will leave a smear underground especially on heavyer land,that water can not drain though,leaving a wet field.

They where popular in the UK a few years ago,we used one for stuble cultivation ,then the above problem come up, they where then abandoned to the headge bottom.

This being a tropical country, with monson rains,drainage is all the more important.

I still say in a field situation a cultivator would do the best job .

Regards

KS

Sold a lot of the UK product called a Howard Rotovator on our side of the Atlantic. Great machines and sucessful when used in loamy soils rather than the clayye muck that passes for farming soil in most of the UK.

I probably missed a great opportunity by not going over to the UK and buying the used Rotovators to sell in the US.

The Howard rotovator ,I think was about the most popular rotovator in the UK, it certainly made Howard,that and they Rotary muck speaders,and that is something I would like in LOS ,make my life a bit easyer.

As I said, and you commented on, UK clay soils and rotovators, are not a good combination.