Rights group arranges lawyers for Myanmar men

[intune53]

New here and still working out how to reply with quotes etc so please bear with me.

@John on page 2 you told me that the video of the suspect in the middle of the night that has two minutes edited out of it presumably to conceal another as yet unidentified person and the video of the three dark haired suspects at around 11pm that night should be "set aside" in favour of the "timestamp video" of the son at university.

Set aside by you?But why? Do you have an opinion on this conflicting evidence? Conflicting evidence requires more attention, not less. At least when finding the truth is one's intention....

Do you have a link to the timestamped video, I would be curious to see if it is authentic from a technical point of view.

I would also be curious if any one single member of that particular family has been or will be DNA tested for if they were all this conspiracy business would fade away, would it not?

Actually it would reveal the innocence/guilt of not just the known members of that family but DNA would also show if any extended family(conspicuous in their absence from media to date) were involved.

[hellyes2oo2]

johnthailandjohn.It seems to me that you have selective memory. It was stated that these 3 guys were among the 300 who had their dna tested within the first 2 days of the murders, and the police subsequently stated that all 300 were not a match to the dna extracted fron david and hannah.

Also please compare these two staements from the chief of police. On friday he stated that the burmese guy had confessed to killing them both because he felt jealous when he saw them having SEX on the beach. Then on saturday he said i am satisfied we have got the killers, because one of them confessed he was jealous when he saw them KISSING on the beach.

But what makes this even more puzzling is that the police stated a few days after the murders that none of davids dna was found on hannah, so how could this burmese guy be telling the truth. And can you tell us all why the kamnan and all his family were allowed to refuse dna tests when everyone else was required to give one. The kamnan also offered the thai police a million baht if they could prove that his son was involved in the murders ( or maybe i should have said not involved) this offer was made just about three days after the murders. The puzzling thing here is that the son said he was taking an exam in bangkok at the time of the murders. Now surely the kamnan knew that his son was at university in bangkok, so why didn't he state that at the time he made his offer.

one last point if i am not mistaken none of the so called cctv footage of the son being on campus has been made public so how do we know if it exists. as you clearly regard yourself as a guardian of the RTP please feel free to answer these questions, and while you are at it and you seem to be so well informed please let us know if any internal discipline has been meted out to any police officer that has been found to be lying after they tried to coerrce a taxi driver into making a false statement. Over to you.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I am referring to the date stamped Thai security cameras of the rich Thai kid that was taking an exam at university the day of the murders.

You may wish to look into the credibility of the evidence that you are highlighting - and not just drink the crap they are putting out?

Do you really think two migrant workers with nothing, who were in a foreign country where they didn't have proper command over the language would commit this terrible crime for apparently no reason, you know, just ruin everything that one night....just because?

I think as has been mentioned a gazillion times, the actual wounds on the victims are so terrible and so strongly suggest that this was not a random act of violence - this had something far more substantial that motivated the killers....motivation I simply don't believe the 2 migrant workers have been claimed to have had.

Other serious concerns John, before you go off believing all the 'evidence'.

1. The crime scene was seriously contaminated from the beginning

2. Certain people were allowed to refuse DNA testing, others were not

3. Like it or not, the island is run by 5 families and they say what goes

4. There would be no chance for these Myanmar men to get a fair trial in the US/UK etc due to certain official's comments and the rest

5. Quite clearly someone was very very very angry with the David and Hannah, and had means to do something about it

I hope the truth comes out to provide closure for the families - scapegoats don't provide closure.

So you suggest a rich and powerful Thai had a reason to be more angry than the suspects?

There is absolutely no evidence anyone was allowed to refuse DNA testing. Not one mention from the police of them not getting DNA from who they wanted.

You suspect the contamination at the scene somehow put these guys semen in the vicitim?

What in the world are you talking about a fair trial in the US/UK? Lots of people confess without lawyers and whose DNA is tested and all this info made public before the trial.

Rape is an act of rage and power over another.

Based on what was being said originally I thought the same thing in regards to this being a personal attack and the only person I could think that could be this close and angry is David's friend if he has something going with Hannah.

However, it appears I was wrong and seemed clear when the DNA came back as Asians and now as it has come back as these two, and I also accept this. But if you suspect the two beat off the next day in the crime scene and wind blew their semen into the victim then maybe I should go back to suspecting it was somebody close and very angry with them?!?!?

Like it or not, them doing it makes sense with the evidence. They took David out from behind to get to her and after raping Hannah, they knew they had to take her out too and did it in a similar fashion they did David but didn't have to sneak up from her behind. They may also have been disgusted with her over what they had done and why they went after the face like that. These are just two sick individuals. One likely very violent and sick and the other with other issues that allowed him to follow the other. Just speculation except for the fact it looks like there is little doubt these two did this terrible crime.

But please tell me why you believe the rich and powerful son may have done this?

Edited October 5, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

johnthailandjohn.It seems to me that you have selective memory. It was stated that these 3 guys were among the 300 who had their dna tested within the first 2 days of the murders, and the police subsequently stated that all 300 were not a match to the dna extracted fron david and hannah.

Also please compare these two staements from the chief of police. On friday he stated that the burmese guy had confessed to killing them both because he felt jealous when he saw them having SEX on the beach. Then on saturday he said i am satisfied we have got the killers, because one of them confessed he was jealous when he saw them KISSING on the beach.

But what makes this even more puzzling is that the police stated a few days after the murders that none of davids dna was found on hannah, so how could this burmese guy be telling the truth. And can you tell us all why the kamnan and all his family were allowed to refuse dna tests when everyone else was required to give one. The kamnan also offered the thai police a million baht if they could prove that his son was involved in the murders ( or maybe i should have said not involved) this offer was made just about three days after the murders. The puzzling thing here is that the son said he was taking an exam in bangkok at the time of the murders. Now surely the kamnan knew that his son was at university in bangkok, so why didn't he state that at the time he made his offer.

one last point if i am not mistaken none of the so called cctv footage of the son being on campus has been made public so how do we know if it exists. as you clearly regard yourself as a guardian of the RTP please feel free to answer these questions, and while you are at it and you seem to be so well informed please let us know if any internal discipline has been meted out to any police officer that has been found to be lying after they tried to coerrce a taxi driver into making a false statement. Over to you.

As already stated the police we back logged because of all the DNA they collected. They were making certain people priorities over others too.

Everything else you are saying is just nonsense based on reading way too much into speculation and translations and partial information.

But again I will ask why do you believe the son of a rich and powerful did this?

[intune53]

I am referring to the date stamped Thai security cameras of the rich Thai kid that was taking an exam at university the day of the murders.

You may wish to look into the credibility of the evidence that you are highlighting - and not just drink the crap they are putting out?

Do you really think two migrant workers with nothing, who were in a foreign country where they didn't have proper command over the language would commit this terrible crime for apparently no reason, you know, just ruin everything that one night....just because?

I think as has been mentioned a gazillion times, the actual wounds on the victims are so terrible and so strongly suggest that this was not a random act of violence - this had something far more substantial that motivated the killers....motivation I simply don't believe the 2 migrant workers have been claimed to have had.

Other serious concerns John, before you go off believing all the 'evidence'.

1. The crime scene was seriously contaminated from the beginning

2. Certain people were allowed to refuse DNA testing, others were not

3. Like it or not, the island is run by 5 families and they say what goes

4. There would be no chance for these Myanmar men to get a fair trial in the US/UK etc due to certain official's comments and the rest

5. Quite clearly someone was very very very angry with the David and Hannah, and had means to do something about it

I hope the truth comes out to provide closure for the families - scapegoats don't provide closure.

So you suggest a rich and powerful Thai had a reason to be more angry than the suspects?

There is absolutely no evidence anyone was allowed to refuse DNA testing. Not one mention from the police of them not getting DNA from who they wanted.

You suspect the contamination at the scene somehow put these guys semen in the vicitim?

What in the world are you talking about a fair trial in the US/UK? Lots of people confess without lawyers and whose DNA is tested and all this info made public before the trial.

Rape is an act of rage and power over another.

Based on what was being said originally I thought the same thing in regards to this being a personal attack and the only person I could think that could be this close and angry is David's friend if he has something going with Hannah.

However, it appears I was wrong and seemed clear when the DNA came back as Asians and now as it has come back as these two, and I also accept this. But if you suspect the two beat off the next day in the crime scene and wind blew their semen into the victim then maybe I should go back to suspecting it was somebody close and very angry with them?!?!?

Like it or not, them doing it makes sense with the evidence. They took David out from behind to get to her and after raping Hannah, they knew they had to take her out too and did it in a similar fashion they did David but didn't have to sneak up from her behind. They may also have been disgusted with her over what they had done and why they went after the face like that. These are just two sick individuals. One likely very violent and sick and the other with other issues that allowed him to follow the other. Just speculation except for the fact it looks like there is little doubt these two did this terrible crime.

But please tell me why you believe the rich and powerful son may have done this?

Hello Johnthailandjohn.Earth to Johnthailandjohn. Please respond to my query about how you know the "timestamped video" of the son at uni is rock solid and why conflicting evidence suggesting other suspects are being concealed can be "set aside" ?????

Your silence is deafening.

Why do you believe the rich and powerful did not do this? Unless you yourself are rich and powerful. Or living somewhere in an alternate utopian universe ruled by a benevolent elite who are neither self-serving nor maintain their wealth and power by nefarious means as a matter of course....

[JohnThailandJohn]

I believe timid entirely possible that these are the ones who committed the crime , but still think its a good thing for this group to provide lawyers to these 3...

If torture and abuse ... It should come out and those responsive punished...

Although if the DNA tests are accurate and these 3 did it... Hope they also are punished...

Let's see how this all turns out...

What would be nice to see more of ... reasonable and rational posts based on reality and not speculations and wishes based on emotion.

What does this say about your ''rational'' posts based on ''reality'' John?? We do not have to speculate about your emotional wishes do we now????

I have absolutely no emotional feelings toward this case except disgust at the crime. I don't know anyone involved and could care less if the DNA came back as a Thai, Foreigner of any race, rich or poor.

The only thing close to emotion I have now is simply a desire to point out to some people it is time to accept they were almost surely wrong in their suspicions (I think we almost were) and that they got the right guys responsible for this crime despite any mistakes or other BS that got it to the police to this point of locating those whose DNA matched that at the crime scene.

I just think that in the coming days some folks are going to be very embarrassed at how they have kicked conspiracy theories and angst against the rich son into over drive now that the have found the two whose DNA matches.

Edited October 5, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[englishoak]

Come on everyone on TV .. if you want to be sure about this then we need 10,000 sigs to move on it to petition the British Embassy and British government for another independent investigation, all people want is real justice and closure for David and Hannahs families, that means 100% without doubt .... get enough voices and the UK gov will have to open an investigation if they havnt already behind closed doors.

We can make a difference for once, all it takes are for good people to do something....

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller#share

Please Moderators im asking you on behalf of many do the right thing and let this link stay.

Up to 9,500 now... COME ON 10k

[englishoak]

I am referring to the date stamped Thai security cameras of the rich Thai kid that was taking an exam at university the day of the murders.

You may wish to look into the credibility of the evidence that you are highlighting - and not just drink the crap they are putting out?

Do you really think two migrant workers with nothing, who were in a foreign country where they didn't have proper command over the language would commit this terrible crime for apparently no reason, you know, just ruin everything that one night....just because?

I think as has been mentioned a gazillion times, the actual wounds on the victims are so terrible and so strongly suggest that this was not a random act of violence - this had something far more substantial that motivated the killers....motivation I simply don't believe the 2 migrant workers have been claimed to have had.

Other serious concerns John, before you go off believing all the 'evidence'.

1. The crime scene was seriously contaminated from the beginning

2. Certain people were allowed to refuse DNA testing, others were not

3. Like it or not, the island is run by 5 families and they say what goes

4. There would be no chance for these Myanmar men to get a fair trial in the US/UK etc due to certain official's comments and the rest

5. Quite clearly someone was very very very angry with the David and Hannah, and had means to do something about it

I hope the truth comes out to provide closure for the families - scapegoats don't provide closure.

So you suggest a rich and powerful Thai had a reason to be more angry than the suspects?

There is absolutely no evidence anyone was allowed to refuse DNA testing. Not one mention from the police of them not getting DNA from who they wanted.

You suspect the contamination at the scene somehow put these guys semen in the vicitim?

What in the world are you talking about a fair trial in the US/UK? Lots of people confess without lawyers and whose DNA is tested and all this info made public before the trial.

Rape is an act of rage and power over another.

Based on what was being said originally I thought the same thing in regards to this being a personal attack and the only person I could think that could be this close and angry is David's friend if he has something going with Hannah.

However, it appears I was wrong and seemed clear when the DNA came back as Asians and now as it has come back as these two, and I also accept this. But if you suspect the two beat off the next day in the crime scene and wind blew their semen into the victim then maybe I should go back to suspecting it was somebody close and very angry with them?!?!?

Like it or not, them doing it makes sense with the evidence. They took David out from behind to get to her and after raping Hannah, they knew they had to take her out too and did it in a similar fashion they did David but didn't have to sneak up from her behind. They may also have been disgusted with her over what they had done and why they went after the face like that. These are just two sick individuals. One likely very violent and sick and the other with other issues that allowed him to follow the other. Just speculation except for the fact it looks like there is little doubt these two did this terrible crime.

But please tell me why you believe the rich and powerful son may have done this?

But please tell me why you believe the rich and powerful son may have done this?

Tell us why you think not involved ?

key word here btw is involved

[boomerangutang]

from JohnThailandJohn: "There is absolutely no evidence anyone was allowed to refuse DNA testing. Not one mention from the police of them not getting DNA from who they wanted."

WRONG!

However, now DNA evidence is highly questionable, because Police brass controlling the proceedings already have their desired result. Early on, police said they asked FBI to assist, then hours later retracted that. Some of the DNA tests in this case took days to process, others took hours or even seconds (when dealt with by Thai authorities). Early on in the case Thai officialdom admitted they couldn't properly process DNA. A few days later they're doing it themselves.

I welcome the news that lawyers may be assigned to at least interview the Burmese accused. However, by all their actions thus far, Thai officialdom doesn't want a fair and proper process. They want scapegoats. I'll be surprised if lawyers get to talk to the Burmese without police minders standing at their shoulders (micro-managing) - similar to how the re-enactment was done on the beach. Independent comparisons of DNA, fogedaboudit. The cops and the Headman got what they wanted. Don't get in their way if you value your life.

My first post after viewing this forum for many months.. Here goes! My wife and I are attending her uncles funeral for last couple of days. Last night we were chatting ( well she was translating ) to one of her cousins, whom is a policeman in Bangkok, about the murders and I was expressing my frustration and doubt about the way this investigation has progressed. He straight up said the murderers were not these Burmese but were relatives of local mafia ( his words ). He also said way too much money has been paid to the head police, government whatever. I like many on this forum wish for independent DNA tests to be carried out on theses accused. If it doesn't match then get samples from local mafia family etc etc. Maybe theses men did it? I don't think the truth will prevail but I hope so! No I am not a troll to all you wan.ers who jump on newbies here.... Anyways thought I'd share what police cousin said!

Welcome to ThaiVisa. There are probably hundreds of cops who think along the same lines but are too afraid to speak out. What benefit would they get? Fired and out of a job, is all.

[AGareth2]

the question is whether the judge believes the evidence

[intune53]

Ongoing glaring inconsistencies in evidence.Ie Evidence that is conflicting does not mean "it is time for people to accept their suspicions were wrong"(or words to that effect Johnthailandjohn) Or almost wrong. Almost wrong is also almost right. Not to be pedantic but `i think the reason why you are getting strong reactions from your posts is because your critical thinking faculty is flawed.

I want justice and justice can only come from all inconsistencies in evidence being resolved. Nearly resolved or "set aside" to never be resolved for convenience is not justice at all. And something that is "almost" true is certainly in part-a lie.

It seems you know nothing of previous cases where police have manipulated dna in thailand to frame people. The "conspiracy" theories are based on context, history and recurring trends of cover-ups as well as the numerous ignored conflicting evidence in this tragic case.

[JohnThailandJohn]

John - do you have ANY doubts whatsoever that the RTP might not have handled this entire incident in the best way, that everyone that might have even remotely been involved has had their DNA tested, and that the DNA "match" with these current suspects is 100% legit?

Personally, I have so many doubts I'd dismiss anything the RTP try to say or prove out of hand from this point onwards without any independent verification. This one incident has shown the world that Thailand isn't changing, doesn't want to change, and won't change in our lifetimes. The corruption and attitudes of superiority from the top down are far too ingrained.

No investigation is handled 100% and I would not expect anything close in a less developed country where police are paid horribly and often take bribes.

I do however believe the DNA results they collected at the scene and tested and shared with Sinpapore is accurate. I also believe the DNA taken from these two matched that DNA. The police are many things but they are no so stupid to believe at some point these guys may recant their confession and their lawyer would get new DNA sample from them to be tested against the results of the semen dna taken from the scene which again was shared with Singapore.

What I don't believe is going on and on about it being rich or powerful Thais simply because they are rich and powerful ... especially given the evidence that goes along with the dna against these guys.

How are you so confident in the DNA? what is the timeline for collecting the DNA from the accused and the return of the results claiming a match. It appeared, as we followed this through the media, that the capture of these guys and the results of their DNA tests was less than 48 hours. A key piece of unknown information remains to be the procedure involved with the DNA. Thailand appears to have used the fastest DNA lab on the planet.

I would also like to know how these guys slipped through the original DNA testing of migrant workers, considering they worked at AC bar they must have been in the prime category for testing. Were they tested and released? If so, why is there DNA now a match?

Acually the police stated (I think in this OP or one very recent one) is that police had collected their DNA earlier but it took so long to process because of all the backlog they had from the random samples they were taken from. I think what seems logical is they collected hundreds of samples to be tested but were pushing the ones to the front where they had suspects in mind.

As I have stated numerous times, these two (at least their bodies) are not going anywhere and their lawyers can retake a swab from them and have their DNA tested again against the DNA originally collected at the scene that was shared with Singapore. This is something the police would obviously know could happen.

Unless these two escape (disappear) or are evaporated in an explosion, then I don't believe there is a lie about the DNA.

Edited October 5, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Artisi]

Now this is going to open up a biiiiiig can of worms.

Let's hope so

Think it will be more like opening a sewage tank.

[hellyes2oo2]

So anyone questioning your version of events is just spouting nonsense and speculation, but your opinions are 100% fact. Please let us know how you are privy to such information, and that your opinions are not just based on what you have read.

Edited October 5, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[denkiblue555]

I am referring to the date stamped Thai security cameras of the rich Thai kid that was taking an exam at university the day of the murders.

You may wish to look into the credibility of the evidence that you are highlighting - and not just drink the crap they are putting out?

Do you really think two migrant workers with nothing, who were in a foreign country where they didn't have proper command over the language would commit this terrible crime for apparently no reason, you know, just ruin everything that one night....just because?

I think as has been mentioned a gazillion times, the actual wounds on the victims are so terrible and so strongly suggest that this was not a random act of violence - this had something far more substantial that motivated the killers....motivation I simply don't believe the 2 migrant workers have been claimed to have had.

Other serious concerns John, before you go off believing all the 'evidence'.

1. The crime scene was seriously contaminated from the beginning

2. Certain people were allowed to refuse DNA testing, others were not

3. Like it or not, the island is run by 5 families and they say what goes

4. There would be no chance for these Myanmar men to get a fair trial in the US/UK etc due to certain official's comments and the rest

5. Quite clearly someone was very very very angry with the David and Hannah, and had means to do something about it

I hope the truth comes out to provide closure for the families - scapegoats don't provide closure.

So you suggest a rich and powerful Thai had a reason to be more angry than the suspects?

There is absolutely no evidence anyone was allowed to refuse DNA testing. Not one mention from the police of them not getting DNA from who they wanted.

You suspect the contamination at the scene somehow put these guys semen in the vicitim?

What in the world are you talking about a fair trial in the US/UK? Lots of people confess without lawyers and whose DNA is tested and all this info made public before the trial.

Rape is an act of rage and power over another.

Based on what was being said originally I thought the same thing in regards to this being a personal attack and the only person I could think that could be this close and angry is David's friend if he has something going with Hannah.

However, it appears I was wrong and seemed clear when the DNA came back as Asians and now as it has come back as these two, and I also accept this. But if you suspect the two beat off the next day in the crime scene and wind blew their semen into the victim then maybe I should go back to suspecting it was somebody close and very angry with them?!?!?

Like it or not, them doing it makes sense with the evidence. They took David out from behind to get to her and after raping Hannah, they knew they had to take her out too and did it in a similar fashion they did David but didn't have to sneak up from her behind. They may also have been disgusted with her over what they had done and why they went after the face like that. These are just two sick individuals. One likely very violent and sick and the other with other issues that allowed him to follow the other. Just speculation except for the fact it looks like there is little doubt these two did this terrible crime.

But please tell me why you believe the rich and powerful son may have done this?

I think the initial comments from people in and around the bar suggesting an 'altercation' are very important.

I believe inconsistencies in reports being released and the absolute wealth of unexplained instances strongly suggest that there is far more to this than the police would have you believe. If you are able to read the Thai media of get it translated you will find that there are many, many, many Thais who do not buy the official story for one moment.

Clearly, people around this case have been 'threatened' - why? Why would the village chief and associates not just volunteer their DNA to clear their names and end speculation? Why would they need to say they will give 1 Million Baht to the police if their family is found guilty? Why were the officials so quick to say that a Thai couldn't have done the crime? What were all the initial rubbish accusations about a gay lover and the rest? Why was the AC bar owner photographed wearing gloves and walking around the crime scene with police the day after the murders?

And just for the record.....out of interest:

Who thinks that 'witnessing' a pretty girl walking on a beach with another person will be enough to cause an individual(s) to commit such a gruesome crime in such a public place, only 50m or so from a police station? I am obviously having a lot of trouble with this one.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Ongoing glaring inconsistencies in evidence.Ie Evidence that is conflicting does not mean "it is time for people to accept their suspicions were wrong"(or words to that effect Johnthailandjohn) Or almost wrong. Almost wrong is also almost right. Not to be pedantic but `i think the reason why you are getting strong reactions from your posts is because your critical thinking faculty is flawed.

I want justice and justice can only come from all inconsistencies in evidence being resolved. Nearly resolved or "set aside" to never be resolved for convenience is not justice at all. And something that is "almost" true is certainly in part-a lie.

It seems you know nothing of previous cases where police have manipulated dna in thailand to frame people. The "conspiracy" theories are based on context, history and recurring trends of cover-ups as well as the numerous ignored conflicting evidence in this tragic case.

Where am I wrong when it comes to the DNA matching the suspects and that it is possible to verify this again by their lawyers?

Do you really believe the police would not have thought of this given the conspiracy and planning that would need to have happened to set them up falsely?

Edited October 5, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[FangFerang]

The UK Daily has been blacked out for raising points the Thai authority cannot contradict in regards to the Koh Tao murders. Welcome to North Korea.

[Sawan Chan 7]

Bloody dogooders. They eventually catch the killers and now some crack law team will get them off on technicalities.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Sawan Chan 7

[kkup]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But those that are satisfied with the police version re DNA obviously haven't quite got a grasp on what we are dealing with. Certain family members were involved and McAnna knows what happened that night. This goes further up the food chain than most people think. Powerful families and the countries multi-billion baht tourism industry was at stake. If I'm wrong, then independent testing will be encouraged. Source samples will be re analysed for traces of external contamination and authenticity (the focus should be on whether the source samples are genuine). Then they can identify ethnicity and match it against the suspects. If there is no match the original suspects submit for re testing or in some cases "first" testing. Including Woraphan's family and their associates who were there on the night of the murders.

But my belief is that will probably never happen. They will do everything in their power to stop anyone proving otherwise, you can imagine the repercussions. How could the prime minister and police chiefs stay in power after being proven guilty of fabricating evidence and corruption..

[sweatalot]

I believe timid entirely possible that these are the ones who committed the crime , but still think its a good thing for this group to provide lawyers to these 3...

If torture and abuse ... It should come out and those responsive punished...

Although if the DNA tests are accurate and these 3 did it... Hope they also are punished...

Let's see how this all turns out...

What would be nice to see more of ... reasonable and rational posts based on reality and not speculations and wishes based on emotion.

Your basing your trust on the RTP .. the same RTP that are right now being accused of taking money for illegal workers there...ie CORRUPT.. Once credibility is gone it means all other possibilities are open to corruption.... including RTP DNA findings... once credibility is shot thats it ... it left the building faster than Elvis this time.........

That is why we are asking for independent testing and investigation, if you had any wish to know the truth confirmed then youd also put your name down.

Its not emotional its logical.

I am sure their defense will also test the DNA as well ...

Completely agree with any of your comments above, but just don't want everyone to loose the entire plot...

If everything you say is true... Does that mean they are innocent?

Just because there are problems with Thai Police, does that mean they should get a free pass if they killed these 2?

I don't think it should...

While it is good to spot light the corruption and hopefully punish the corrupt... It Shouldn't mean that murders are given a free pass..

"If everything you say is true... Does that mean they are innocent?"

Neither does it mean they are guilty

These burmese guys are innocent until convited by an honorable and independant court. If they did the crime they should be convicted for sure.

It is not the duty of the lawyers to get them free if they are guilty. But it is their duty to get them free if their guilt cannot be prooven 100%

[JohnThailandJohn]

I am referring to the date stamped Thai security cameras of the rich Thai kid that was taking an exam at university the day of the murders.

You may wish to look into the credibility of the evidence that you are highlighting - and not just drink the crap they are putting out?

Do you really think two migrant workers with nothing, who were in a foreign country where they didn't have proper command over the language would commit this terrible crime for apparently no reason, you know, just ruin everything that one night....just because?

I think as has been mentioned a gazillion times, the actual wounds on the victims are so terrible and so strongly suggest that this was not a random act of violence - this had something far more substantial that motivated the killers....motivation I simply don't believe the 2 migrant workers have been claimed to have had.

Other serious concerns John, before you go off believing all the 'evidence'.

1. The crime scene was seriously contaminated from the beginning

2. Certain people were allowed to refuse DNA testing, others were not

3. Like it or not, the island is run by 5 families and they say what goes

4. There would be no chance for these Myanmar men to get a fair trial in the US/UK etc due to certain official's comments and the rest

5. Quite clearly someone was very very very angry with the David and Hannah, and had means to do something about it

I hope the truth comes out to provide closure for the families - scapegoats don't provide closure.

So you suggest a rich and powerful Thai had a reason to be more angry than the suspects?

There is absolutely no evidence anyone was allowed to refuse DNA testing. Not one mention from the police of them not getting DNA from who they wanted.

You suspect the contamination at the scene somehow put these guys semen in the vicitim?

What in the world are you talking about a fair trial in the US/UK? Lots of people confess without lawyers and whose DNA is tested and all this info made public before the trial.

Rape is an act of rage and power over another.

Based on what was being said originally I thought the same thing in regards to this being a personal attack and the only person I could think that could be this close and angry is David's friend if he has something going with Hannah.

However, it appears I was wrong and seemed clear when the DNA came back as Asians and now as it has come back as these two, and I also accept this. But if you suspect the two beat off the next day in the crime scene and wind blew their semen into the victim then maybe I should go back to suspecting it was somebody close and very angry with them?!?!?

Like it or not, them doing it makes sense with the evidence. They took David out from behind to get to her and after raping Hannah, they knew they had to take her out too and did it in a similar fashion they did David but didn't have to sneak up from her behind. They may also have been disgusted with her over what they had done and why they went after the face like that. These are just two sick individuals. One likely very violent and sick and the other with other issues that allowed him to follow the other. Just speculation except for the fact it looks like there is little doubt these two did this terrible crime.

But please tell me why you believe the rich and powerful son may have done this?

Hello Johnthailandjohn.Earth to Johnthailandjohn. Please respond to my query about how you know the "timestamped video" of the son at uni is rock solid and why conflicting evidence suggesting other suspects are being concealed can be "set aside" ?????

Your silence is deafening.

Why do you believe the rich and powerful did not do this? Unless you yourself are rich and powerful. Or living somewhere in an alternate utopian universe ruled by a benevolent elite who are neither self-serving nor maintain their wealth and power by nefarious means as a matter of course....

Why do you suspect the date stamp and all those who saw him at university should not be believed? Yes you are right could be a vast conspiracy of video editing and many at his university. But this goes back to the question of " please tell me why you believe the rich and powerful son may have done this?"

If the rich kid's DNA matched like the two suspects then I would not be responding any different to those who would want to put this on Burmese Immigrants for no reason.

Again, Please tell me why you believe the rich and powerful son may have done this?

"Your silence is deafening."

[jspill]

The UK Daily has been blacked out for raising points the Thai authority cannot contradict in regards to the Koh Tao murders. Welcome to North Korea.

Have a link? I can read on vpn. If I google UK daily I just get the daily mail, that was blocked by Thailand months ago for comments about the monarchy.

[sweatalot]

Does anybody think it could be possible to get all the big foreign travel agencies to exclude Koh Tao from their catalogues until all doubts about the case being properly resolved are removed ?

They could even add a few words why they are not promoting that island in the moment

Edited October 5, 2014 by sweatalot

[englishoak]

The UK Daily has been blacked out for raising points the Thai authority cannot contradict in regards to the Koh Tao murders. Welcome to North Korea.

Which daily now ?

[ttthailand]

It is just too simple .... Get New independent DNA tests for the Burmese guy to confirm a match. If no match get DNA from family members.

KISS

[intune53]

Ongoing glaring inconsistencies in evidence.Ie Evidence that is conflicting does not mean "it is time for people to accept their suspicions were wrong"(or words to that effect Johnthailandjohn) Or almost wrong. Almost wrong is also almost right. Not to be pedantic but `i think the reason why you are getting strong reactions from your posts is because your critical thinking faculty is flawed.

I want justice and justice can only come from all inconsistencies in evidence being resolved. Nearly resolved or "set aside" to never be resolved for convenience is not justice at all. And something that is "almost" true is certainly in part-a lie.

It seems you know nothing of previous cases where police have manipulated dna in thailand to frame people. The "conspiracy" theories are based on context, history and recurring trends of cover-ups as well as the numerous ignored conflicting evidence in this tragic case.

Where am I wrong when it comes to the DNA matching the suspects and that it is possible to verify this again by their lawyers?

Do you really believe the police would not have thought of this given the conspiracy and planning that would need to have happened to set them up falsely?

Ok, John.

Let's presume that you've never read or heard about an event previously reported in another murder case of a farang in chiang mai not so long ago where it was found that police went so far as to try and manually masturbate someone they were trying to scapegoat but failed. As one only could in that sort of situation. So yes I do believe the police would not have thought that through. Money speeds processes in ways that are alarming. Police survive on extortion. It is normal-allegedly.

They did not factor international social media maintaining such a spotlight on their tiny island and they did not factor in sean mcanna posting to facebook. They did not factor in the critical thinking of outsiders and insiders.

Let's presume that the DNA does match.

Then let's add the glaring inconsistencies:

a flaccid motive for violent murder and rape.

small and puny suspects overpowering an extremely tall man and a woman.on their own.with no help or prompting at all.

a discarded condom at the scene which has not been tested for dna on the inside of it.(or has not been published the results of this)

an edited video of the suspect running down the street with an unidentified other visible in the far corner of screen on playback.

a fumbling investigation with far flung theories about gay lovers, a best friend, anyone so long as they were not thai.

police saying they found hannah's phone destroyed by the suspects house although police were given hannahs phone by her friend the day after the crimes.

sean mcanna reporting he had been threatened by thai mafia and fearing for his life whilst sporting several stab wounds almost identical to davids.

murder weapons falsely reported and not matching forensic evidence.not matching even evidence one can see with ones own eyes, as a layman.

total contamination of murder scene.

huge motive of police to restore flow of tourist dollar to island as soon as possible.

the powerful family refusing to provide dna evidence, preferring to issue a dare to find them guilty which would involve a reward of a milllion baht.

AN altercation in Ac bar which would have been the most likely motive for such a brutal crime.It was reported initially then never mentioned again.vanished into thin air!!

There is more, but if DNA does match the burmese as you seem convinced of then the extreme likelihood given these inconsistencies is that they were not alone and that there were other rapists and murderers too.

They may have been helped or directed by someone powerful who could put them under extreme duress. They may have been coerced and they are totally disenfranchised anyway and are easy marks, as it were.

I hope the NGO reveals some useful information from the burmese suspects.I hope they are not too terrified of retribution that they do not accept the NGO's offer of help.

[denkiblue555]

To JohnThailandJohn,

I think there are more than half a dozen threads here on TV alone, numerous newspaper articles, the chronology of events, just to name a few....that answer your question.

Have you ever been to Kho Tao?

Do you know anyone who lives there?

Are you following the Thai media on this?

Are you aware of all the inaccuracy relating to the Myanmar men?

(where police quoted that Win told the police he saw the D&H having sex, so he made the attack with a plan to rape the woman)

It just seems that you simply believe everything the police says unconditionally - I don't really know why?

It would not be the first time that police have covered up a foreigner's death - Kanchanaburi comes to mind......among many other cases where I don't believe families would have gotten closure. You are aware of these other cases as well?

[hellyes2oo2]

johnthailandjohn, i ask you again, when his father offered one million baht, not to the public, but to the thai police to prove his sons guilt or innocence, how come he didn't know that his son was at university in bangkok. i always knew when my son was some 600 kilometres away from home. And please don't give me any crap about maybe he didn't know where he was, because i'm pretty sure as soon as the allegations were made against his son, the first thing he would have done is called him. And if you are certain we should believe all the people who "saw him at university" then why shouldn't we believe the people who said he left the island on the first boat the morning after the murders. And you still haven't provided any link to the so called cctv evidence showing him at university, could this be because it has not been made public, and you are only basing your comments on what you have read

Edited October 5, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed again. Please stop using bold font when posting.

[sweatalot]

So anyone questioning your version of events is just spouting nonsense and speculation, but your opinions are 100% fact. Please let us know how you are privy to such information, and that your opinions are not just based on what you have read.

To whom are you talking?

[sweatalot]

Bloody dogooders. They eventually catch the killers and now some crack law team will get them off on technicalities.

welcome to the dobaders