Police address criticisms over Koh Tao arrest of Myanmar suspects

[7Heaven]

I heard that there are photos of these two guys being DNA tested early on in the investigation, if true seems their DNA wasnt a match at that stage

Any link or supporting evidence available?

Yes, on Facebook you can see them queuing up for DNA testing with a big smile on their face, not really a murderers' attitude before a critical test.

I think it's this pic

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=739693732734133&set=p.739693732734133&type=1&theater

[kkup]

Taking along time to sign a document if they are so confident in their investigation... Same as they took along time to bring in these suspects.. Good corruption requires time to prepare.

[Local Drunk]

You are scared to speak out. What freedom do you have ?

Hmm read my posts and you will see I am not afraid, under anonymity. That anonymity which protects me and allows me to express my opinions openly. It does not affect my freedom or privacy.

It's not like I have inside info or anything. Also, I am not concerned with people 'liking' my posts as I tend to offend many. Do you really want some troll knowing where you live?

Some tend to confuse anonymity with kryptonite, but they tend to reveal their one-dimensioned mentality very quickly and are easily ignored.

Old school is still better.

Bottom line is numbers tell the story.

People in US complain that there's 4,000 gun related homicides / year / 100 million people. Something like 5-10 times more than a lot of western European countries.

In Thailand there's 25,000 gun related homicides / year / 100 million people

So Thai Police get loads of experience. And some of the guys they have to nail are real "hardcore". It's not like the Koh Tao murders are the first they've investigated.

Wait and see what the UK Ambassador has to say as he will be privy to much more info than us.

And it's amazing they didn't crack down on visas before cause there are plenty of foreigners who increase the Police workload a lot. But Thailand is a generally life loving culture and appreciate tourism. So that's why they try to be nice to foreigners, I'd say keep it that way.

Nuff Said, have a good night boys

Don't ever call anyone on TV boy...

[lucpez]

To all the negative folks in the peanut gallery, as a former undercover officer with The Royal Thai Police in conjunction with the US Embassy, I'd highly suggest you remember you are only privy to the facts exposed online. There are numerous concerns about intelligence assets etc. which you'll never know about.

And if I was a Thai National Royal Thai Police Officer, I'd have a thing out for you. So stop being so negative, the Royal Thai Police are extremely efficient and friendly and concerned about getting the right people. Anybody who's had an experience which contradicts my statement should look in the mirror and read what you write.

Continuous negative speculation is not the smart thing to do. Why don't you go out and make a legal business and make money so you don't have so much time to speculate.

Some of you are so lucky they don't track you down.

Uncle

Are you seriously threatening anyone expressing their opinions and concerns freely as per basic human rights?

[KarenBravo]

To all the negative folks in the peanut gallery, as a former undercover officer with The Royal Thai Police in conjunction with the US Embassy, I'd highly suggest you remember you are only privy to the facts exposed online. There are numerous concerns about intelligence assets etc. which you'll never know about.

And if I was a Thai National Royal Thai Police Officer, I'd have a thing out for you. So stop being so negative, the Royal Thai Police are extremely efficient and friendly and concerned about getting the right people. Anybody who's had an experience which contradicts my statement should look in the mirror and read what you write.

Continuous negative speculation is not the smart thing to do. Why don't you go out and make a legal business and make money so you don't have so much time to speculate.

Some of you are so lucky they don't track you down.

Uncle

Let me guess........last week you were a CIA operative.

The week before that Delta Force.

When a police force are so openly corrupt that even their own citizens fear and hate them, suspicion of what they say and do is the default position.

[IAMSOBAD]

Liar Liar BIB on Fire.

Cover ups don't work anymore you fools. This is modern times with old as helll police tactics of trying to protect their money flow.

House of Cards is falling down fast.

[Sparkles]

maybe if they allowed an independent dna test to be performed we might believe them but as long as they keep sticking to their current "we did nothing wrong" testaments we all know its simply a cover up for their pathetic attempts to satisfy their "no thai did this" statement and the total unprofessional way they investigated it along with the way they allowed suspects to muddy the waters.

What they need to do is allow an agency from outside Thailand to go over the so called evidence as well as check the supposed dna samples taken from the local "mafia" and to take fresh dna samples for the supposed killers. This needs to be above board and not the current corrupt crap we are seeing.

Agree totally with the sentiments but would a UK, US ,Australian, Canadian etc police force allow another countries police/agency to come in and conduct their own tests ? I would suggest no way.

One day someone will research and write a book on unsolved murders and stitching some unfortunates for all the murders in Thailand,will be a mighty thick book.

Can see this investigation going the same way as so many have before. The best police force money can buy.

[bunglebag]

If the DNA evidence is infallibly conclusive, why did they need to beat confessions out of the Burmese boys?

To avoid a trial?

[kkup]

Anyone can throw a phone in the bushes, including police, that evidence is weak at best.

[IAMSOBAD]

I heard that there are photos of these two guys being DNA tested early on in the investigation, if true seems their DNA wasnt a match at that stage

Any link or supporting evidence available?

Sure it was collected to find the fall guys later down the road and never match a Thai.

That DNA has traveled more than an airline pilot. How convenient to have hundreds of Burmese samples to pick from.

[alantheembalmer]

Moving on from my earlier posting, it might be interesting for some members to read about Locard's exchange principle.

During this appalling crime there must have been transference of innumerable pieces of forensic material from one party to the other, which could be discovered at the crime scene, and at the residence of the perpetrator. Either the police have failed to locate this evidence; they have it and are waiting for their grandstand moment; or they have it and are concealing it from scrutiny.

I wonder which of these options it is?

[Soiyamoto]

Not forgetting the man caught on video running away was said to be wearing the male victims shorts

[TTom911]

To all the negative folks in the peanut gallery, as a former undercover officer with The Royal Thai Police in conjunction with the US Embassy, I'd highly suggest you remember you are only privy to the facts exposed online. There are numerous concerns about intelligence assets etc. which you'll never know about.

And if I was a Thai National Royal Thai Police Officer, I'd have a thing out for you. So stop being so negative, the Royal Thai Police are extremely efficient and friendly and concerned about getting the right people. Anybody who's had an experience which contradicts my statement should look in the mirror and read what you write.

Continuous negative speculation is not the smart thing to do. Why don't you go out and make a legal business and make money so you don't have so much time to speculate.

Some of you are so lucky they don't track you down.

Uncle

Are you seriously threatening anyone expressing their opinions and concerns freely as per basic human rights?

yep, I guess that's how you could read that fools comment...

[Brian Corrigan]

The AT had better get this right when the police send him the report,otherwise people will be accusing him of a cover up. Where are the lawyers sent to help these two scape goats? Where is the Birmese Ambassador? Why do the police need confessions if there is a DNA match? Where is the murder weapon that killed the male victim? Many unanswered questions.

[wilcopops]

Just like any other complaint in Thailand however big or small, the response is the same....the "customer" is always wrong.

With a serious situation like this which is beset with blunders and now serious misgivings, you'd have thought the police or someone in authority would come out a say "YES!" - there have been blunders and we intend to learn from them..these are the measures we intend to introduce in reorganising the investigation of crimes the training of officers and the handling of the media.

Do we get this? No!

We get a spate of ludicrous suggestions that focus on anyone and everyone except the police themselves.

tourists should wear wrist bands, dance behind a fence and not wear bikinis.

Immigrant workers should all be registered (new idea?) and everyone should have an ID tag and pay their fees/bribes on time and accept the blame for everything.

[warriorbangkok]

The more the police open their mouths, the more they appear like school children trying to hide the bucket and spade in the sandpit.

I just hope that the British forensic specialists come over to do their own investigation, but that probably will never happen!

Be aware all farangs - Thailand is a very dangerous place. If you don't stay sober and polite, then things can turn very ugly, very quickly.

[Soiyamoto]

And not forgetting the man in the cctv clip seen running away was said to be wearing the male victims shorts

[dieseldave1951]

ARE YOU SURE I MEAN REALLY SURE

"He added that investigators would tomorrow sign a document confirming that the DNA samples given by the two Myanmar men matched those found on the victim’s body."

I can sign for them any document they like, but would that be the truth?

I still doubt it very much.

Please lets have an independent investigation by the British police.

Oh believe me, the AG will want much more proof than anything stated in some document forwarded by the police

[bertty]

And not forgetting the man in the cctv clip seen running away was said to be wearing the male victims shorts

And not forgetting all the men in the cctv clip have much longer hair than the scapegoats.

[mercman24]

so where does the Burmese government stand in all of this, ?? just wondered,

[Dogmatix]

1. They found the men first day, and questioned and released though they said they were close to the victims singing, why not they tested the DNA of these men on the same day, instead of chasing the scared farang men running away from Kho-Tao after the murder happened ?

2. How the verified DNA report, the samples from Victims body on the 8th and samples from the men on 15th. Who is the witness for this ? Police alone cannot give witness. Doctors and medical staff should witness the proof.

For 20 years, Thai Police have bad reputation from Saudi theft and murder incident. More than saving the tourism by pointing some scapegoat victims, they should come up with real truth to make sure Thailand is having a fair judicial system.

I feel sorry for the migrant staff here, they work for low salaries on maid/labor visa and no other benefits they can get except spending their money here. Please show some mercy on them rather than using them and making them scape goats!

A large number, if not most, including the two suspects are working without maid/labor visa or even passports. The police have been happily collecting monthly fees to look the other way with no concern for the threat to safety of tourists, Thais or to the workers themselves posed by a large undocumented foreign work force treated like slaves. If they commit a crime or something happens to them police don't even know their names or how many of them there were. For example no one knows how many Burmese and other undocumented foreign workers perished in the 2005 Tsunami. There are also many murders and other assaultes committed by and against foreign workers that never make the headlines. None of this matters to the men who are collecting 500 baht a month or, it seems, to their bosses all the way to the top.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Dogmatix

[7Heaven]

I think the first BIB said was we can rule out robbery as no belongings is missing, and now the say they found a phone and other belongings from the victims at the Burmese boys home...

[apetley]

You are scared to speak out. What freedom do you have ?

Hmm read my posts and you will see I am not afraid, under anonymity. That anonymity which protects me and allows me to express my opinions openly. It does not affect my freedom or privacy.

It's not like I have inside info or anything. Also, I am not concerned with people 'liking' my posts as I tend to offend many. Do you really want some troll knowing where you live?

Some tend to confuse anonymity with kryptonite, but they tend to reveal their one-dimensioned mentality very quickly and are easily ignored.

Old school is still better.

Bottom line is numbers tell the story.

People in US complain that there's 4,000 gun related homicides / year / 100 million people. Something like 5-10 times more than a lot of western European countries.

In Thailand there's 25,000 gun related homicides / year / 100 million people

So Thai Police get loads of experience. And some of the guys they have to nail are real "hardcore". It's not like the Koh Tao murders are the first they've investigated.

Wait and see what the UK Ambassador has to say as he will be privy to much more info than us.

And it's amazing they didn't crack down on visas before cause there are plenty of foreigners who increase the Police workload a lot. But Thailand is a generally life loving culture and appreciate tourism. So that's why they try to be nice to foreigners, I'd say keep it that way.

Nuff Said, have a good night boys

Your US and Thailand population figures are way off.

[freedom4life]

They wouldn't allow no independent investigation, to make the authorities look inept in the eyes of Thailand, if not in front of the whole world? The police have also tampered with evidence and could set-it-up to point to the ones in custody anyway, before independent investigators would arrive. The Brits. need to force their way in, to do an alternate study unexpectedly. They should of came in right-off the bat. At the very least, an independant moderator should of come in from the start

[buhi]

1. They found the men first day, and questioned and released though they said they were close to the victims singing, why not they tested the DNA of these men on the same day, instead of chasing the scared farang men running away from Kho-Tao after the murder happened ?

2. How the verified DNA report, the samples from Victims body on the 8th and samples from the men on 15th. Who is the witness for this ? Police alone cannot give witness. Doctors and medical staff should witness the proof.

For 20 years, Thai Police have bad reputation from Saudi theft and murder incident. More than saving the tourism by pointing some scapegoat victims, they should come up with real truth to make sure Thailand is having a fair judicial system.

I feel sorry for the migrant staff here, they work for low salaries on maid/labor visa and no other benefits they can get except spending their money here. Please show some mercy on them rather than using them and making them scape goats!

A large number, if not most, including the two suspects are working without maid/labor visa or even passports. The police have been happily collecting monthly fees to look the other way with no concern for the threat to safety of tourists, Thais or to the workers themselves posed by a large undocumented foreign work force treated like slaves. If they commit a crime or something happens to them police don't even know their names or how many of them there were. For example no one knows how many Burmese and other undocumented foreign workers perished in the 2005 Tsunami. There are also many murders and other assaultes committed by and against foreign workers that never make the headlines. None of this matters to the men who are collecting 500 baht a month or, it seems, to their bosses all the way to the top.

The Red Bull killer first tried to get one of the servants to plead guilty. Seems to me something similar is taking place here.

[HerbalEd]

In spite of the armchair/barstool criminal-investigation experts here on tv.com, the fact is no one here actually knows the truth. And those that assert to know the truth are just plain silly.

I agree that the police work is very questionable. And to settle all questions in this case, the Thai police must let an independent body ... or British police ... confirm that the DNA samples taken from the victims body and from the two suspects actually do match ... or not. Then we'll all know the truth.

Edited October 6, 2014 by HerbalEd

[Dogmatix]

Police address criticisms over arrest of Myanmar suspects.

The headline is misleading. Although they may have addressed some of the other criticisms elsewhere, this article deals only with the confusion over the mobile phone. It is not clear whether the confusion came from police or journalists but The Nation (and others) reported on 4 Oct that the two told police that they had raped the woman and killed her, before stealing her mobile phone and other belongings, and destroyed the unit at the back of their living quarters. If this really were the case, a revision to the confessions would need to be arranged but that shouldn't be a problem.

Looking at one of the crime scene photographs, there is something that could be a phone next the articles of clothing on the beach in the foreground but the resolution is not high enough to say for sure exactly what it is.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Dogmatix

[metisdead]

A flame post has been removed.

[Baerboxer]

maybe if they allowed an independent dna test to be performed we might believe them but as long as they keep sticking to their current "we did nothing wrong" testaments we all know its simply a cover up for their pathetic attempts to satisfy their "no thai did this" statement and the total unprofessional way they investigated it along with the way they allowed suspects to muddy the waters.

What they need to do is allow an agency from outside Thailand to go over the so called evidence as well as check the supposed dna samples taken from the local "mafia" and to take fresh dna samples for the supposed killers. This needs to be above board and not the current corrupt crap we are seeing.

It simply won't happen here or anywhere else. You are calling the credibility of the police and forensic officers into question. No country will subject their law enforcement to such without extreme reason. Look at the issues created when British police wanted to get involved with the Madeline McGann initial and subsequent investigations. They weren't welcomed with open arms by the Portugal authorities then or now. And Portugal is the UK's oldest ally.

Developing Asian countries are not likely to respond to Western countries interfering or tell them they know better. Britain and the British police forces are far from perfect although nowhere near as inept as seems to have been the case here. The culture is completely different and corruption within the British police has been substantially reduced over the last 40 years or so,

They could allow the FBI - but the FBI would do a through job, not be easily influenced and likely share their findings with British colleagues with whom they already closely cooperate.

The Thai authorities are not likely to pay any attention to petitions, social media or what they may perceive as the usual farang arrogance and whining; and they certainly are not going to allow themselves to be judged by a bunch of clamoring foreigners.

The only hope for justice to be really seen to be done would be for the Burmese government to get involved. They could take DNA from the 2 suspects family members and request Britain to do a check against that removed from the deceased (assuming this was taken). That would help confirm or deny the Thai tests. But then both Myanmar and Britain would be risking a diplomatic spat with Thailand. Sadly, can't see either doing that in the interests of justice.

[wilcopops]

You are scared to speak out. What freedom do you have ?

Hmm read my posts and you will see I am not afraid, under anonymity. That anonymity which protects me and allows me to express my opinions openly. It does not affect my freedom or privacy.

It's not like I have inside info or anything. Also, I am not concerned with people 'liking' my posts as I tend to offend many. Do you really want some troll knowing where you live?

Some tend to confuse anonymity with kryptonite, but they tend to reveal their one-dimensioned mentality very quickly and are easily ignored.

Old school is still better.

Bottom line is numbers tell the story.

People in US complain that there's 4,000 gun related homicides / year / 100 million people. Something like 5-10 times more than a lot of western European countries.

In Thailand there's 25,000 gun related homicides / year / 100 million people

So Thai Police get loads of experience. And some of the guys they have to nail are real "hardcore". It's not like the Koh Tao murders are the first they've investigated.

Wait and see what the UK Ambassador has to say as he will be privy to much more info than us.

And it's amazing they didn't crack down on visas before cause there are plenty of foreigners who increase the Police workload a lot. But Thailand is a generally life loving culture and appreciate tourism. So that's why they try to be nice to foreigners, I'd say keep it that way.

Nuff Said, have a good night boys

Numbers don't tell anything, it's how you interpret them that "counts"...if you chances of detection and conviction are high, then it stands to reason that crimes may be lower in numbers......

Furthermore, it's not who you are dealing with in these crimes that is causing concern but HOW the crimes are dealt with.

Edited October 6, 2014 by wilcopops