Universal doubts cloud 'perfect' Koh Tao murder investigation

[Rykbanlor]

Universal doubts....

Some reactions from outer space:

• E.T. : "RTP is known for their extortions, scapegoats and maffia connections. I can't believe that a few midgets kill a man twice their size while the English girl is getting raped by a third man. These Birmese are just scapegoats. Call home for FBI....!"
• R2D2: "Preeep, beep, beep, preepbeep."
• C3PO: "I will translate R2D2. He says that the Birmese are scapegoats. I think the same."
• Alf: "The RTP on Koh Tao could not even find a cat for me. They came back with a p^ssy for short time and I had to pay the RTP while p^ssy was underaged, not Thai and me being alien."
• Luke Skywalker: "RTP says aliens did it. The whole universe knows better. The RTP must have been paid off."
• Yoda: "A wise man always says. Don't believe the RTP because they go with the force, ahum farce."
• Captain Kirk: "The RTP has been wrong many times, will be wrong many times and is wrong in this case too. Beam me back up, Scotty."

Who let the NERD in??

haha, just kidding, amusing post

[upsidedown]

Perhaps the UK Government should just do their own analysis on any samples recovered and fully publish them online for future verification by anyone who cares to do so.

For example the parents / siblings of the accused will show familial matches with the evidence assuming they are guilty.

This won't go away, proof of innocence would be just as damning as proof of guilt.

I suspect the Burmese and British governments will be setting this up right now if they care at all about this case.

There's nothing the Thai's could do to prevent this or meddle with it in any way.

Over 45,000 signatures now asking UK government to act

http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?lang=en-GB&recruiter=51139167&utm_campaign=twitter_link_action_box&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition

Excellent, Long may it continue!!

[Puwa]

Background reading on police torture in Thailand:

http://www.chiangmainews.com/indepth/details.php?id=2019

http://www.humanrights.asia/news/ahrc-news/AS-71-2005

[JOC]

.....At the same time, reports filtered out from Burmese media that an embassy lawyer had in fact described it as a “set up” after the two men, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, revealed bruises they said came from torture and recanted their confessions........

...how can this be ignored.....???

Because it doesn't return "happiness to the people"!!

[Carrerakiss]

I think it is only natural and right that this allegedly "perfect job" is being scrutinized and criticized by the public following all these inconsistencies and bizarre tales described in the OP. After all, no-one should be allowed to play with the lives of two people if there is even the slightest chance they may not be guilty of this horrendous crime.

I suppose that even the families and relatives of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge would not like to see a couple of scapegoats going to the gallows while the real culprits possibly still remain at large - or are perhaps even protected by some influential parties, as has been alleged more than once.

The RTP can at this point plead as much as they want how "perfect" this investigation has allegedly been, but a large proportion of the public both locally and abroad simply doesn't buy it. The RTP has nobody to blame but themselves for this situation, because in the past they have shown again and again what an incompetent, corrupt lot they are; nothing short of worthy of the Keystone Cops, actually.

That this latest case seemingly has been botched up once more only proves to the public that nothing has been learned from similarly botched-up cases in the past and that nothing has improved in terms of the RTP's investigative professionalism. THAT is why the public is suspicious. THAT is why the public demands transparency and honest answers. And THAT is why the public has the right to criticize and scrutinize.

And the RTPs stubborn refusal to permit an independent investigation and re-examination of evidence does not exactly help to remedy the current situation either, does it?

The police may have nailed down DNA evidence this time, even though they were unable to get a match the first time they checked samples from the suspects. But their case still depends on the suspects' confession, since the police will be unable to satisfactorily explain in court exactly what happened with all the discrepancies in their evidence.

It is very important that the suspects withdraw their confession and plead not guilty. The downside to them is no different is they lose. No deal from the police to spare them the death sentence can be honoured by the court. But they will not be executed for fear of bad relations with Burma. If they plead not guilty, decent lawyers would have a sporting chance of getting them off with only the illegal entry and work permit offences sticking. That's a fee trip to the Ranong crossing point. Change names, get new ID cards and passports and they could come back to Thailand as legal workers. The Thai authorities don't seem to know their real names anyway as they quote different names every time, all of which are different from the names quoted by the Burmese lawyer.

The police didn't take their DNA before they were detained, they lived outside the zone for testing in the first round.

But worked not only in the zone, but in the actual bar closest to the murder scene and at the approximate time the murders took place. If I didn't know better, I would suggest the police might have messed up by focusing on where people live, rather than than where they were at the time of the murder

[freedom4life]

Notice to the top brass: A perfect investigation with perfect results results in the guilty parties being brought to justice. It means the guilty parties cannot use their influence to alter the outcome of this. I know that is a very, very difficult concept for you guys to comprehend. I realize you work within a system that allows influential guys off the hook. But, this whole thing is beyond compromised. Totally imperfect is probably the correct description.

As I stated in previous posts:

Some of my recent posts on this travesty, which seem as relevant as ever:

What is the real moral to this story? Well, one of them is that we are not going to see any meaningful change, to the fabric of Thai socety. Many of us were incredibly hopeful that we would see some positive changes. And I think it is quite possible that Prayuth, and his top guys have their hearts in the right places, and want to see this change take place. Many expats, and many Thais really want to see progress, and want to see this country moving forward into this century. Yes, we will see some land crimes solved, and some illegal beach vendors removed. But, in terms of dealing with the massive corruption issues, the kind of power guys like the headman of Koh Tao have, and their ability to abuse that power, and positive changes at an institutional level, and at a national level, where it really counts, many of us now doubt it will happen. This case proves, that many are still above the law, and even the Army cannot touch them. That is the devastating moral to this story. A very disappointing outcome indeed.

This is simply a disinformation campaign, aimed at the ignorant. They have found the killer or killers. They have made a conscious decision not to charge him. They know who he is. They have CCTV footage of him following the victims out of the bar. They have eyewitness accounts of the incident that provoked this. The headman is simply too rich, too powerful, and nobody feels compelled to rock that boat, including the Army. It is very disappointing to alot of people here in Thailand and worldwide, to find that the Army does not really want to rock the boat, and upset the status quo. Very disappointing. Very disconcerting. A real shame. Some things never change, I guess. Looks like that crime infested, drug infested island is going to stay the same forever. Little progress there. Nobody in power wants to see change. It is going to take a very powerful force in Bangkok, if anything there is ever going to change.

Well bud. we're here to make that change...exposure on an international level is GOING to rock that boat. We have names of the mafia and we're going to expose them for the criminal-murdering drug lords that they are. In addition, we/tourists are going to boycott that island from the tourist industry and there are petitions now being generated online. We have the power to cut them off where it hurts...their god 'money'

[greenchair]

Lawyer.what did you do?

boys. We smoked a ciggy/play guitar.

L, then what?

B, we saw boy/girl have sex. We pick up hoe and hit them. 2 or 3 times.

We r--- girl.

L, who did you hit first.

B, don't know, we drunk.

L, where was h when u dragged d to beach.

B, don't know, we drunk.

L, did you r--- h after k--- d

B, don't know, we drunk.

L, what did you do with bloody clothes.

B, don't know, we drunk.

L, did you hit d in the front and back of head.

B, don't know we drunk.

L, which one used the hoe.both or just one.

B, don't know we drunk.

[HaleySabai]

wheres the link its easy to get a sample

one of his friends or anyone could get one with the right insentive ie bahts

hopefully,before he disappears into the monk-hood..... as did one pre-coup high profile and out-spoken plutocrat leader.

[haybilly]

I think it is only natural and right that this allegedly "perfect job" is being scrutinized and criticized by the public following all these inconsistencies and bizarre tales described in the OP. After all, no-one should be allowed to play with the lives of two people if there is even the slightest chance they may not be guilty of this horrendous crime.

I suppose that even the families and relatives of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge would not like to see a couple of scapegoats going to the gallows while the real culprits possibly still remain at large - or are perhaps even protected by some influential parties, as has been alleged more than once.

The RTP can at this point plead as much as they want how "perfect" this investigation has allegedly been, but a large proportion of the public both locally and abroad simply doesn't buy it. The RTP has nobody to blame but themselves for this situation, because in the past they have shown again and again what an incompetent, corrupt lot they are; nothing short of worthy of the Keystone Cops, actually.

That this latest case seemingly has been botched up once more only proves to the public that nothing has been learned from similarly botched-up cases in the past and that nothing has improved in terms of the RTP's investigative professionalism. THAT is why the public is suspicious. THAT is why the public demands transparency and honest answers. And THAT is why the public has the right to criticize and scrutinize.

And the RTPs stubborn refusal to permit an independent investigation and re-examination of evidence does not exactly help to remedy the current situation either, does it?

The police may have nailed down DNA evidence this time, even though they were unable to get a match the first time they checked samples from the suspects. But their case still depends on the suspects' confession, since the police will be unable to satisfactorily explain in court exactly what happened with all the discrepancies in their evidence.

It is very important that the suspects withdraw their confession and plead not guilty. The downside to them is no different is they lose. No deal from the police to spare them the death sentence can be honoured by the court. But they will not be executed for fear of bad relations with Burma. If they plead not guilty, decent lawyers would have a sporting chance of getting them off with only the illegal entry and work permit offences sticking. That's a fee trip to the Ranong crossing point. Change names, get new ID cards and passports and they could come back to Thailand as legal workers. The Thai authorities don't seem to know their real names anyway as they quote different names every time, all of which are different from the names quoted by the Burmese lawyer.

The police didn't take their DNA before they were detained, they lived outside the zone for testing in the first round.

But worked not only in the zone, but in the actual bar closest to the murder scene and at the approximate time the murders took place. If I didn't know better, I would suggest the police might have messed up by focusing on where people live, rather than than where they were at the time of the murder

To whom are you referring? The Burmese lads or the owners and family of the Bar in question?

[Wilsonandson]

UK Rules--you often suggest that the UK Government 'should' do XYZ--but, as we all know, this is very unlikely--Cameron has enough on his plate with ISIS, UKIP, and other anagrams and really--does he have the balls? The UK Police are about as likely to get involved as Deputy Dawg.

Having said that, the silence from everyone close to the case in the UK is soooooo deafening. Hannahs friends, Davids friends, Sean Mcanna. (stab wound in his arm same as the stab wound in davids neck) It cant be a coincidence. I've witnessed it happen with other people upon landing at Heathrow. I would imagine they were all met at the airport getting off the plane and questioned. They've probably been told to not discuss anything with anyone as behind the scenes they are indeed conducting their own investigations. Does Cameron have the balls? Just because the British elite are reserved and have manners, don't think for a minute the authorities are gonna be trod over by anyone. Our security forces are world class professionals. And to add... the murdered kids parents ...if they have been told the truth by people close to them....dont be suprised if they are arranging their own repercussions. I know would be.

David Cameron is only worth 4 million quid. Maybe less than the Ko Tao mobsters.

[greenchair]

David was a hero.

Hannah was a beautiful, bright girl.

[sweatalot]

Presumption of innocence - Go on-----look it up

This case has produced reams of online debate.

I notice that both the Prime Minister and the chief of police have publicly stated that 'they have reviewed the evidence and they are (Prayut)'insisting police have solid forensic evidence to prove the men killed the young couple' (well known newspaper 4thOct) there is more - much more.

The point is that it is now impossible for these men to have any hope of a fair trial when the PM and police chief are at the very outset seeming to say they are guilty.

Even the worst work opportunity lawyer in the world should be able to laugh this case out of court

It better get laughed-out or else the PM and COP are going to get more than they bargained for...it is now claimed that the real perpetrator is running around free,...Nomsod, or Dodo - The son of village headman Warot Tuvichien is now considered by chat-forums (including Thai) as the real culprit. His alibis is/are not consistent with CCTV or students that know him.

this phallus presenting foto shows a lot of the mindset of this (deleted)

If he really was the bastard who murdered these nice people ...

When I imagine him seeing a woman whom he wants - with the pictures of that shameful act in his memory ... giving him even more confidence ...

I don't want this to happen again

I am close to vomit.

He is a suspect - check him, find out if it was or wasn't him

If he didn't do it - I apologize

edited to add this:

for the picture see post 146

[Carrerakiss]

If you read some of the accounts in the international newspapers linked above, you might assume that the unfortunate victims were having a late night stroll on the beach enjoying the (maybe) moonlit view of the Gulf of Siam before they were assaulted.

The Australian one in particular states: It is still unclear what prompted the killings.

Perhaps a proper investigation might reveal that? I have my own view, and it does not include guitar playing individuals, but I wasn't there and so I would be just speculating.

[upsidedown]

How can we know David was attacked by a left handed person?

I must admit that his wounds don't look like what I'd expect to see from a hoe, especially the blunt side but I'm not basing this on any scientific understanding.

This is my biggest doubt in relation to David being attacked with a knife: in a struggle with someone who brandished a knife, wouldn't you expect more slash wounds to David's arms and body? I can't bring myself to believe the attacker would primarily stab into David's skull during a fight- I just can't get the image.

Wounds to the skin and subcutaneous layer tissue - Which one of these types of wounds do you believe were found on David's body and on Sean's arm and leg?

[sweatalot]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

they're trying to tell everyone that these two Myanmar Midgets first overpowered a young, apparently fit European twice their size, killed him, then raped the girl and killed her, oh, after sharing a condom? Plus, they say they used the handle of the hoe on David, but the pictures of David clearly show that a KNIFE, or some type of SHARP BLADED weapon, was used by his attackers. They can not read, write or speak Thai, but they "confessed" to police after an "intensive interrogation" at a supposed "safe house". And by the video of their "reenactment" of the crime, they had to be "directed" by the Thai police as to what they did.

sorry, way too many "inconsistencies" for me.

Go back a decade or more to an English girl murdered in a Chiang Mai backpackers hotel, the police pinned the tail on a young Sydney guy, the girls parents and the BBC didn't want any of this ,so they hired a private detective, formally of Scotland yard, he found the culprit , the Thai guy who ran the backpackers hostel , the police were so pissed off they had the BBC kicked out of Thailand, that's the sort of sh!!t you have to put up with when dealing with Thai police.

Not anymore.

In the age of the internet things like that cannot be hided

[freedom4life]

Here is a link petition online to help sort-out this ridiculous investigation ...

http://www.change.or...=share_petition

Thanks for offering this and I just want to show it again.

[Toknarok]

Please never EVER compare the RTP to the Keystone Cops. The Cops were funny, the RTP couldn't ever be classed as anything amusing in the slightest. Quite the opposite.

[MrJohnson]

Good opinion piece in the Bangkok Post entitled "Koh Tao case shatters faith in our police." Looks like it is not "To Protect and To Serve" in Thailand, but rather "To Protect The Privileged." The "perfect" job is certainly garnering the attention of the world.

Had a chat with the office staff about this today and concluded that there wasn't much faith there to be shattered. All of them felt that this whole thing is a stitch up.

[Carrerakiss]

I think it is only natural and right that this allegedly "perfect job" is being scrutinized and criticized by the public following all these inconsistencies and bizarre tales described in the OP. After all, no-one should be allowed to play with the lives of two people if there is even the slightest chance they may not be guilty of this horrendous crime.

I suppose that even the families and relatives of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge would not like to see a couple of scapegoats going to the gallows while the real culprits possibly still remain at large - or are perhaps even protected by some influential parties, as has been alleged more than once.

The RTP can at this point plead as much as they want how "perfect" this investigation has allegedly been, but a large proportion of the public both locally and abroad simply doesn't buy it. The RTP has nobody to blame but themselves for this situation, because in the past they have shown again and again what an incompetent, corrupt lot they are; nothing short of worthy of the Keystone Cops, actually.

That this latest case seemingly has been botched up once more only proves to the public that nothing has been learned from similarly botched-up cases in the past and that nothing has improved in terms of the RTP's investigative professionalism. THAT is why the public is suspicious. THAT is why the public demands transparency and honest answers. And THAT is why the public has the right to criticize and scrutinize.

And the RTPs stubborn refusal to permit an independent investigation and re-examination of evidence does not exactly help to remedy the current situation either, does it?

The police may have nailed down DNA evidence this time, even though they were unable to get a match the first time they checked samples from the suspects. But their case still depends on the suspects' confession, since the police will be unable to satisfactorily explain in court exactly what happened with all the discrepancies in their evidence.

It is very important that the suspects withdraw their confession and plead not guilty. The downside to them is no different is they lose. No deal from the police to spare them the death sentence can be honoured by the court. But they will not be executed for fear of bad relations with Burma. If they plead not guilty, decent lawyers would have a sporting chance of getting them off with only the illegal entry and work permit offences sticking. That's a fee trip to the Ranong crossing point. Change names, get new ID cards and passports and they could come back to Thailand as legal workers. The Thai authorities don't seem to know their real names anyway as they quote different names every time, all of which are different from the names quoted by the Burmese lawyer.

The police didn't take their DNA before they were detained, they lived outside the zone for testing in the first round.

But worked not only in the zone, but in the actual bar closest to the murder scene and at the approximate time the murders took place. If I didn't know better, I would suggest the police might have messed up by focusing on where people live, rather than than where they were at the time of the murder

To whom are you referring? The Burmese lads or the owners and family of the Bar in question?

The Burmese since I believe that is to whom the previous poster referred. But you are right, the same logic applies to the DNA testing everyone at or near the scene that night, irrespective of where they might live.

[Wilsonandson]

Presumption of innocence - Go on-----look it up

This case has produced reams of online debate.

I notice that both the Prime Minister and the chief of police have publicly stated that 'they have reviewed the evidence and they are (Prayut)'insisting police have solid forensic evidence to prove the men killed the young couple' (well known newspaper 4thOct) there is more - much more.

The point is that it is now impossible for these men to have any hope of a fair trial when the PM and police chief are at the very outset seeming to say they are guilty.

Even the worst work opportunity lawyer in the world should be able to laugh this case out of court

It better get laughed-out or else the PM and COP are going to get more than they bargained for...it is now claimed that the real perpetrator is running around free,...Nomsod, or Dodo - The son of village headman Warot Tuvichien is now considered by chat-forums (including Thai) as the real culprit. His alibis is/are not consistent with CCTV or students that know him.

this phallus presenting foto shows a lot of the mindset of this (deleted)

If he really was the bastard who murdered these nice people ...

When I imagine him seeing a woman whom he wants - with the pictures of that shameful act in his memory ... giving him even more confidence ...

I don't want this to happen again

I am close to vomit.

He is a suspect - check him, find out if it was or wasn't him

If he didn't do it - I apologize

Why didn't he get tortured by the bib?

Attach live wires from a plug socket to this guys testicles and he'll be singing like a canary.

[chotthee]

Please never EVER compare the RTP to the Keystone Cops. The Cops were funny, the RTP couldn't ever be classed as anything amusing in the slightest. Quite the opposite.

It is an open and shut case. Move one.

[kleelof]

It is the people of Thailand who suffer in the end because of these jokers.

[Andre0720]

This is really sad, I find it hard to believe that these 2 little runts are guilty.

My exact same thought.

I do not know what a murderer looks like.

But this sure aint look like it....

[Wilsonandson]

Please never EVER compare the RTP to the Keystone Cops. The Cops were funny, the RTP couldn't ever be classed as anything amusing in the slightest. Quite the opposite.

It is an open and shut case. Move one.

Yes, move one Nom Sod fresh milk into a cage for life.

[axact]

UK Rules--you often suggest that the UK Government 'should' do XYZ--but, as we all know, this is very unlikely--Cameron has enough on his plate with ISIS, UKIP, and other anagrams and really--does he have the balls? The UK Police are about as likely to get involved as Deputy Dawg.

Perhaps England is involved but laying low until crunch time eh...

This is what Im thinking , surely Sean and friends of Hannah and David have spoke to UK police

and like a genuine police force there is no need to spout any details off to the general public

how it should be done

I don't think Sean will want to talk - I think he's involved a little more than he made out during his little window of media scrutiny

Very interesting, please let us know what you are baseing your opinion on ? Some links please or do you personally know the guy ?

[Artisi]

.....At the same time, reports filtered out from Burmese media that an embassy lawyer had in fact described it as a “set up” after the two men, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, revealed bruises they said came from torture and recanted their confessions........

...how can this be ignored.....???

Easy TIT.

[ScotBkk]

Conspiracy theorists aside, if the Thai Police want to clear up any doubts they should get Scotland Yard briefed and involved with the entire evidence gathering, interviewing and judicial process. I don't believe they can pull the wool over experts eyes.

For the rest of us untrained in police investigative methodology I doubt we can say with certainty whether these migrant workers are guilty or not.

Its nothing but speculative heresay that does nothing to contribute to the pursuit of justice and closure for the parents of those murdered.

No disrespect to your post.

However, please understand. So, many of these tv posters have done a somewhat magnificent job as opposed to the RTP’s Perfect Job in accumulating other evidence and theories. Subsequently, having to deal with Thread Hijackers and cynical Bastards like JTJ and so on. TV members have been outwardly disgusted at their vile disrespect for our own. I wholly suspect that the majority of these parasites come from the UK themselves. Personally, I would love to have their proper coordinates to release to the British press so they can stand up and be accounted for their disgraceful obnoxious behaviour against their fellow citizens.

The more input tv members give, will help other social sites to gather more incriminating evidence against the others wholly suspected of these heinous crimes committed in Thailand. Many people on here have visited the area getting firsthand experience and took onboard how it operates on the island and by whom.

How can anyone outside Thailand do this without their help? Not forgetting of course some of these members’ wives and friends add important details …..

The list goes on ………

[Artisi]

What???

"You want to say this to my face"

Haha.

Playground stuff.

I dare you I dare you, I double dare you.

[Wilsonandson]

.....At the same time, reports filtered out from Burmese media that an embassy lawyer had in fact described it as a set up after the two men, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, revealed bruises they said came from torture and recanted their confessions........

...how can this be ignored.....???

Easy TIT.

The military successfully told 20,000,000 Thais that they were wrong electing Yingluck and pulled off a seamless coup d'etat. They can do what they want. They got guns, tanks, helicopters and shit

[jaywalker]

Please sign this petition if you haven't already - http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

The UK government needs to be pressured into independently investigating two of its citizens' murders and the obvious injustice and cover up by the Thai officials. International pressure, particularly from the UK, is the only chance of the truth ever coming to light and the responsible parties being held accountable. It seems as though the UK isn't interested in dong so for fear of diplomatic repercussions, so maybe if enough of their citizens demand that they do then they'll have no choice. If they don't then they're as guilty as the corrupt Thai government and police officials as far as I'm concerned.

I just signed the petition. Not sure what good it'll do, but it didn't hurt to sign it.

It was at 45,891 when I just looked at it.