Universal doubts cloud 'perfect' Koh Tao murder investigation

[Wilsonandson]

[

Mark Kent is doing some work behind the scenes along with Andy Hall, this is not going away. https://twitter.com/KentBKK/with_replies

I heard Mark is down the British club propping up the bar.

https://members.bccthai.com/bcct/asp/photos_insert_fullsize.asp?Image=XTL2SMX5RRH9_LN.jpg&Rotate=0

[khunpa]

The fan is spinning and the SH!T has just hit it!!

Fasten your seatbelts this is going to be rough.

I just worry about the lives of the 2 accused, this is getting out of control for Thailand, and an easy way out would be if they were no longer with us.

Yes, something bad and smelly will properly hit the fan :-)

However, with the current progress in this case, the two burmese guys are now more safe than ever. If they turn up dead tomorrow after the latest news, then the RTP will have some serious problems. (which they already have)

[ianf]

I sincerely hope the British Government, with their concern for human rights, sends some top people to investigate this. I firmly believe that the Burmese guys have been set up. Sorry to say but I have no faith in the behaviour of Thai people after 6 years here ........

[Oziex1]

I would like to put on record my apologies to Her Majesty’s representive to Bangkok Mr. Kent. I severely criticized you following your alleged comments about the RTP investigation, Sir I am sorry and I take back all I said.

Spoken like a true Gentleman. Likes for you.

[Carrerakiss]

Interesting development; according to Sanook news the public prosecutor on Samui has doubts about (at least part of) the story and evidence provided by the RTP, as he wont accept what's in the current 800-page report and just sent the entire case back to the police. So it's far from a shut case at this point.

This could be the start of an interesting dynamic. Is it possible that the police have been allowed to do whatever they want with the investigation, while quietly some words have been spoken to the prosecutor to go over the police submission with a fine tooth comb? So in effect, the police have been given enough rope to hang themselves. Figuratively speaking of course.

I just wonder whether this might end up in the revamp of the BIB at the top, that many people seem to believe is necessary.

Revamp the BIB from the top will not change anything. The beloved General PM already changed the top shortly after he took the power. The system is so deeply rotten that BIB would need to be cleaned from the bottom in every single branch, village all around the country. It would probably be a bloodbath...

You're no doubt right, but I still feel a provincial prosecutor would not stand up to the BIB unless he had some backing. After all, the good General did give his blessing to the BIB in public. But did he do something else privately?

Anyway, it's just speculation and not really something that can ever be verified. But, good on the Samui guy for kicking back the BIB's submission. Hope it wasn't just because of some typos.

[monk213]

[

Mark Kent is doing some work behind the scenes along with Andy Hall, this is not going away. https://twitter.com/KentBKK/with_replies

I heard Mark is down the British club propping up the bar.

https://members.bccthai.com/bcct/asp/photos_insert_fullsize.asp?Image=XTL2SMX5RRH9_LN.jpg&Rotate=0

Is Andy still facing that case against the juice company? he has a lot of gump that guy, balls of steel. I am pretty sure most of the police force want him dead yet he carries on...

[joecoolfrog]

Rathet than fading away , this story seems to be gaining momentum. The fact that sections of the Thai media are openly critical speaks volumes , nobody can dismiss them as 'Thai Bashers' or ' Conspiracy nutters '.

I imagine that certain sections of the RTB must be shocked at the hostile reaction , the script wasn't written that way.

[bunglebag]

Until today a key plice witness, Maung Maung, shown reversing his earlier testimony implicating his friends that he claimed was extrated via police beatings shown here by Democratic Voice of Burma (DVB).

KO MAUNG MAUNG.jpg

Who is that on the far left of the photo in between the policeman and the ex-witness?

OMG it is the trusty Rohingya police interpreter and legal scholar, Mr Banana Pancake, who is alleged to have participated in beating the suspects.

1957977_711447318932996_6240533856951062249_n.jpg

That translator / pancake (roti?) seller is always there giving out evil glares at the Burmese guys. He was at it during the reconstruction too.

Edited October 8, 2014 by bunglebag

[bunglebag]

The pancake seller is giving a real dirty look in the other picture of this article

[AGareth2]

so how does the DNA match?

[Dogmatix]

The fan is spinning and the SH!T has just hit it!!

Fasten your seatbelts this is going to be rough.

I just worry about the lives of the 2 accused, this is getting out of control for Thailand, and an easy way out would be if they were no longer with us.

I think they'll be safe now, the police have lost the game. What their next move will be remains to be seen but given their history of handling this case they will now shut up, or more foot in mouth.

I believe the pendulum is swinging to the side of justice.

I there were just one suspect, I expect he would have ended his life in a police cell in a fit of remorse using a pair of shoe laces the screws somehow overlooked in his sneakers. But two suicides would be hard to explain. Safety in numbers.

[bertty]

[

Mark Kent is doing some work behind the scenes along with Andy Hall, this is not going away. https://twitter.com/KentBKK/with_replies

I heard Mark is down the British club propping up the bar.

https://members.bccthai.com/bcct/asp/photos_insert_fullsize.asp?Image=XTL2SMX5RRH9_LN.jpg&Rotate=0

Thank god for that. A few beers, loosen the tongues a bit.

So much better than sitting in an office.

[Wilsonandson]

[

Mark Kent is doing some work behind the scenes along with Andy Hall, this is not going away. https://twitter.com/KentBKK/with_replies

I heard Mark is down the British club propping up the bar.

https://members.bccthai.com/bcct/asp/photos_insert_fullsize.asp?Image=XTL2SMX5RRH9_LN.jpg&Rotate=0

Is Andy still facing that case against the juice company? he has a lot of gump that guy, balls of steel. I am pretty sure most of the police force want him dead yet he carries on...

The biggest exporter of pineapple juice that Andy Hall says employs underaged migrant workers from Myanmar. The juice company wants him dead the police just follow orders.

[Dogmatix]

The pancake seller is giving a real dirty look in the other picture of this article

Mr Banana Pancake is just leaning over just itching to get his hands on the former witness for another bashing.

He has made himself a bit too visible and will be regarded as expendable to the police. Soon it will be time for him to show his passport, visa and work permit. Then off to Ranong in chains in the back of a police pick-up.

[eddie61]

Perhaps the UK Government should just do their own analysis on any samples recovered and fully publish them online for future verification by anyone who cares to do so.

For example the parents / siblings of the accused will show familial matches with the evidence assuming they are guilty.

This won't go away, proof of innocence would be just as damning as proof of guilt.

I suspect the Burmese and British governments will be setting this up right now if they care at all about this case.

There's nothing the Thai's could do to prevent this or meddle with it in any way.

I do think that the UK government should do its own investigation.

No one with any experience of Thailand trusts the police. Most of us have paid bribes for spurious traffic offences, knowing full well that a part of it ends up in a police general's bank account ( chief of police with nearly a billion baht of declared assets, anyone?)

The justice system in Thailand is a complete joke to anyone with the slightest exposure to it.

It behoves the British representation here to do their job in this case, and F...k the foreign trade. Britain's values reside in justice and fairness for all, not in a short term grab for the cash. Leave that to Thailand, please and take the moral high ground>>>>>>>>>>

[Carrerakiss]

1412770579056.jpg

That will put our Ambassador on the spot. After all the BIB are to be congratulated. 555

I did wonder how Mr Kent is feeling, assuming that he said even half what the BIB said, he said. But did he say any of it?

I suspect he probably made some kind of congratulatory remark as that would, diplomatically, be expected. But does anyone seriously think he actually said the effuse congratulatory drivel that was reported?

If anything, it's another example of the BIB shooting themselves in the foot. They went waaaay over the top in exaggerating what he probably said, to the extent that it looked unbelievable.

Taken from Mark Kent's twitter feed:

"Much speculation about UK views on Koh Tao investigation.UK has good relationship w Thai Police, but I have not commented on investigation".

Someone replied asking: "So you didn't praise police in solving the case & say they showed "exemplary professionalism" as reported http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/three-migrant-workers-confess-rape-murder-british-tourists/ "

to which his reply was simply:

"No"

Seems clear enough. The BIB, or whoever prepared that press statement, lied. A pretty stupid lie as well because it would be sure to get His Excellency Mark Kent's back up and he is probably one of the few people who can actually make a difference in terms of how seriously the UK Government takes the allegations of BIB creating scapegoats.

The extent of the praise as quoted was far to much to ever be true. So is anything else a lie, now that this statement has been shown to be irrefutably so? You bet your bottom dollar there are more than a few.......

[ScotBkk]

Until today a key plice witness, Maung Maung, shown reversing his earlier testimony implicating his friends that he claimed was extrated via police beatings shown here by Democratic Voice of Burma (DVB).

KO MAUNG MAUNG.jpg

Who is that on the far left of the photo in between the policeman and the ex-witness?

OMG it is the trusty Rohingya police interpreter and legal scholar, Mr Banana Pancake, who is alleged to have participated in beating the suspects.

1957977_711447318932996_6240533856951062249_n.jpg

Placed there no doubt to keep the poor guy stumm .... never worked must be f%&*in raging haha

[Dogmatix]

so how does the DNA match?

Interesting question because it didn't match when the two suspects were tested the first time around. Maybe their first samples were inadvertently mislaid inside Hannah's dead body and BINGO . A perfect police job.

[uptheos]

With so many sceptics who think it's a police set up not have Thais involved perhaps the Thai police should simply drop the case and deport the two young men accused .

Let the British police come here and resolve the murder by themselves , then you would be sure that there was no bias of any sort .

Do you really think they would leave themselves open to the possibility that British police might find a Thai guilty?

Not going to happen.

[Oziex1]

Until today a key plice witness, Maung Maung, shown reversing his earlier testimony implicating his friends that he claimed was extrated via police beatings shown here by Democratic Voice of Burma (DVB).

KO MAUNG MAUNG.jpg

Who is that on the far left of the photo in between the policeman and the ex-witness?

OMG it is the trusty Rohingya police interpreter and legal scholar, Mr Banana Pancake, who is alleged to have participated in beating the suspects.

1957977_711447318932996_6240533856951062249_n.jpg

Placed there no doubt to keep the poor guy stumm .... never worked must be f%&*in raging haha

And now he realises he is another friendless Rohingya in Thailand. In fact worse he is a collaborator.

[Unconvinced]

The pancake seller is giving a real dirty look in the other picture of this article

Thai web-board commentary on this banana pancake "translator" says that he is a Rohingya Muslim and totally inappropriate for that and other reasons. Maybe that's unfair; I'm sure he doesn't owe the police and any other key people on Koh Tao anything whatsover one for the right to run that stall in peace, and personally I thought his taller co-enforcer in the light blue shirt who was stood over the smaller suspect looked more sinister than all of the other coppers and suspects combined. However, the Thais have a point when they observe that there would be quite some objection if a Thai was accused of a gruesome crime in London and the UK police grabbed some street vendor off the pavement who speaks a little Thai and comes from an ethnic group with reason to hate Thais.

Anyway, back to that photo, the Burmese delegation clearly wouldn't need roti boy's dubious translation and enforcement services; so presumably he must be there to listen in to what they are saying as best he could ... and then tell his copper mate "uh oh, we are f'd".

[eddie61]

Perhaps the UK Government should just do their own analysis on any samples recovered and fully publish them online for future verification by anyone who cares to do so.

For example the parents / siblings of the accused will show familial matches with the evidence assuming they are guilty.

This won't go away, proof of innocence would be just as damning as proof of guilt.

I suspect the Burmese and British governments will be setting this up right now if they care at all about this case.

There's nothing the Thai's could do to prevent this or meddle with it in any way.

All of us here with any experience of the Thai police know that they are venal beyond measure: most of us have been extorted to pay bribes for spurious traffic offences, knowing full well that a part is passed up to a police generals bank account ( note: a chief of police with nearly a billion baht of family assets , anyone?}

The criminal justice system in Thailand is beyond a joke, and it behoves the British representation here to conduct heir own investigation.

Britain's values include fairness and justice for all, certainly very different to Thailand values. F....k the quick baht and the trade deals. Leave that level of diplomacy to Thailand. Take the moral high ground and investigate this by British police.

[Carrerakiss]

I would like to put on record my apologies to Her Majestys representive to Bangkok Mr. Kent. I severely criticized you following your alleged comments about the RTP investigation, Sir I am sorry and I take back all I said.

Spoken like a true Gentleman. Likes for you.

I believe his correct title is "His Excellency Mr Mark Kent" but I'm sure he appreciated the sentiment. Hope he is appropriately mad at the RTP, not that a representative of her Majesty would ever express such a thing in words.

[Wilsonandson]

With so many sceptics who think it's a police set up not have Thais involved perhaps the Thai police should simply drop the case and deport the two young men accused .

Let the British police come here and resolve the murder by themselves , then you would be sure that there was no bias of any sort .

Do you really think they would leave themselves open to the possibility that British police might find a Thai guilty?

Not going to happen.

And have the southern police chief of Surat thani and those below him on the case lose big face in front of the whole world. Nope

[Carrerakiss]

so how does the DNA match?

That Sir, is what most people want to know. Along with, was it tampered with in any way?

How will we ever get an answer? An independent check of source DNA.

Will we ever get it?

Hmm, I never thought it could happen, but is that a chink,of light I see? Far in the distance......

[Wilsonandson]

I would like to put on record my apologies to Her Majestys representive to Bangkok Mr. Kent. I severely criticized you following your alleged comments about the RTP investigation, Sir I am sorry and I take back all I said.

Spoken like a true Gentleman. Likes for you.

I believe his correct title is "His Excellency Mr Mark Kent" but I'm sure he appreciated the sentiment. Hope he is appropriately mad at the RTP, not that a representative of her Majesty would ever express such a thing in words.

And your Excellency's handling of the issuing of passports was outstanding, bravo!

[BoristheBlade]

Its high time the General acted , after all he is an officer and a gentleman?????

The BIB have brought shame on the people of Thailand.

[love1012]

How can we know David was attacked by a left handed person?

I must admit that his wounds don't look like what I'd expect to see from a hoe, especially the blunt side but I'm not basing this on any scientific understanding.

This is my biggest doubt in relation to David being attacked with a knife: in a struggle with someone who brandished a knife, wouldn't you expect more slash wounds to David's arms and body? I can't bring myself to believe the attacker would primarily stab into David's skull during a fight- I just can't get the image.

Not a knife, a knuckle duster blade..

Tazwa - David can clearly be seen with a black eye - i believe he was beaten with fists first then stabbed with the push blade by someone on top of him when he was on the floor

[Carrerakiss]

With so many sceptics who think it's a police set up not have Thais involved perhaps the Thai police should simply drop the case and deport the two young men accused .

Let the British police come here and resolve the murder by themselves , then you would be sure that there was no bias of any sort .

Do you really think they would leave themselves open to the possibility that British police might find a Thai guilty?

Not going to happen.

And have the southern police chief of Surat thani and those below him on the case lose big face in front of the whole world. Nope

So where's the compromise?

If things continue to snowball as they are, the BIB are going to be looking for an out where they can make some BS claim that absolves them from responsibility for arresting the wrong guys, assuming they are the wrong guys. Nothing's proven yet.

However outlandish, they'll need to have some spin on things that they can use to save face. A bit like murderers say that it wasn't their fault they killed someone it was because they were drunk, etc,etc.

Not seeing it yet, but if things go pear shaped with these two workers arrest, it'll be interesting, probably hilarious, to see what the BIB come up with.

A long way to go yet though, the BIB won't give in without a fight, and if they have done their work properly, nor should they. It's just, how can I put it, these little things keep cropping up that put them in a bad light. So inconvenient.

[Dogmatix]

Seems clear enough. The BIB, or whoever prepared that press statement, lied. A pretty stupid lie as well because it would be sure to get His Excellency Mark Kent's back up and he is probably one of the few people who can actually make a difference in terms of how seriously the UK Government takes the allegations of BIB creating scapegoats.

The extent of the praise as quoted was far to much to ever be true. So is anything else a lie, now that this statement has been shown to be irrefutably so? You bet your bottom dollar there are more than a few.......

Looking back I can't see the 'exemplary professionalism' quote attributed directly to Mark Kent. It looks like it was in a press release put out by the BiB.

The only quote directly attributed to Mr Kent in respect of the meeting which was ostensibly to congratulate the police chief on his new appointment was as follows:

'The British Ambassador later said “Thailand and the UK have always mutually helped each other in the past and the cooperation has always benefitted both countries. This new development reaffirms our confidence in both our countries abilities.”'

This much more guarded and diplomatic. He could hardly have told the police chief to his face and reporters afterwards that he thought the whole investigation was a crock of sh1t. What he said actually foreshadows the possibility of some sort of joint investigation. In fact we don't know at what point what evidence the Thai police forensics staff left in the bodies of the deceased for British pathologist to find or if they destroyed everything.

There might now be quite a bit of evidence in the UK including circumstantial evidence from David and Hannah's friends. They were seen being interviewed in vid clips by policemen who can could barely utter two words of English and then allowed to leave immediately apart from Chris Ware whom they attempted to nail as a sole rapist/ killer despite accusing him of being David's gay lover. This idea fell apart when DNA from two Asian males was found - enter the current suspects - and Chris was released but he can't ever been interviewed by Thai police about what happened in the AC Bar before his friends were murdered. The British crowd should also be able to eliminate the headman's son, if shown pictures of him. If he was in the AC Bar that night, one of the surviving British backpackers would surely be able to recognise a picture of him prior to his haircut.