Reforms to be unbiased, except against 'people like Thaksin': NRC member

[Eric Loh]

The huge turnout to receive Apiwan's body is indication that the UDD has look beyond Thaksin. Reform all the NRC want, build high barriers to thwart Thaksin party from having a fair chance at election, ban the PT politicians; ulitimately all have to face an election. If the establishment continue to overlook the voters and treat them with disdain, it will come back to haunt them and another coup can be expected.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I wonder what the legal definition of "People Like Thaksin" will be?

Very difficult to nail it down because if the word Corrupt is used half of Thailand will be attending Court Hearings.

Thieving parasites

[SICHONSTEVE]

It is not ideal that the opposition has to be silenced I accept. Unfortunately, this was necessary in order for the general to implement the reforms in order to repair the damage done by the PTP previously with their abject government (this is a massive ask and he is doing an admiral job of it).

Don't forget, the Dems have been silenced as well so it is a ban on ALL politicians and not just some.

The benign dictatorship will give up it's power once its job is done and then cease to be after free and fair elections can be held

I love it! Yes, the benign dictatorship! The one that can do no wrong and will do nothing but good things! A benign dictatorship like, um...., well like those other benign dictatorships I can't think of but that did so many good things. Help me out SICHONSTEVE, what benign dictatorships are we referring to?

The one currently in Thailand.

[aussieinthailand]

So not all men are equal.

And the law cannot be universally applied.

No wonder Thaksin is the only one in Thailand who have to pay capital gain tax from selling SHIN shares.

He deserves it.

All men (animals) are equal, but some are more equal than others.

So to this guy unbiased means only for people he ((NRC) see fit, This country is famous for bias, and now? same as before nothing new nothing to see on your way or off too the re-education camps.

Pol Pot had a few of them camps now didn't he, and look how that turned out.

[visionchaser45]

I wonder what the legal definition of "People Like Thaksin" will be?

Very difficult to nail it down because if the word Corrupt is used half of Thailand will be attending Court Hearings.

I think it is defined as "not one of us."

[heybruce]

It is not ideal that the opposition has to be silenced I accept. Unfortunately, this was necessary in order for the general to implement the reforms in order to repair the damage done by the PTP previously with their abject government (this is a massive ask and he is doing an admiral job of it).

Don't forget, the Dems have been silenced as well so it is a ban on ALL politicians and not just some.

The benign dictatorship will give up it's power once its job is done and then cease to be after free and fair elections can be held

I love it! Yes, the benign dictatorship! The one that can do no wrong and will do nothing but good things! A benign dictatorship like, um...., well like those other benign dictatorships I can't think of but that did so many good things. Help me out SICHONSTEVE, what benign dictatorships are we referring to?

The one currently in Thailand.

Is the current work in progress the only example you have?

[heybruce]

The US comes to mind. William Tweed of Tammany Hall in in 19th century New York, Huey "Kingfish" Long in early 20th century Louisiana, widespread police corruption during prohibition, etc. Corruption has not been completely eliminated in the US, and probably never will be, but it is much less than it used to be. A combination of a free press and public outrage eventually resulted in elected leaders who cleaned things up. I think there are other established democracies that have similar stories.

Military dictatorships don't worry about a free press and public outrage, for obvious reasons. They usually secure their positions by rewarding important allies with public wealth of some kind, often in a patronage relationship. Was the military dictatorship in South Korea known for being squeaky clean? Did any of those military dictators retire to a humble home and live on a modest pension?

Where did i ever claim they were squeaky clean?

No you didn't, but I did, as requested, give you an example of a corrupt democracy that solved, or reduced to manageable levels, corruption problems. Can you give me an example of a military dictatorship that did the same?

Actually you did not, you gave an example of a corrupt police force. And my example is in the first post - South korea.

The corrupt systems controlled by William Tweed and Huey Long extended well beyond the police.

A quick reading of South Korea's history educated me about the repressive dictatorship that followed the 1979 coup; it is remembered for the Gwanju massacre, and was toppled in 1987 by a popular uprising after reneging on democratic reforms. I didn't read anything that indicated that this was a corruption fighting dictatorship. Perhaps you can give more details on the history you are referring to.

[longway]

The US comes to mind. William Tweed of Tammany Hall in in 19th century New York, Huey "Kingfish" Long in early 20th century Louisiana, widespread police corruption during prohibition, etc. Corruption has not been completely eliminated in the US, and probably never will be, but it is much less than it used to be. A combination of a free press and public outrage eventually resulted in elected leaders who cleaned things up. I think there are other established democracies that have similar stories.

Military dictatorships don't worry about a free press and public outrage, for obvious reasons. They usually secure their positions by rewarding important allies with public wealth of some kind, often in a patronage relationship. Was the military dictatorship in South Korea known for being squeaky clean? Did any of those military dictators retire to a humble home and live on a modest pension?

Where did i ever claim they were squeaky clean?

No you didn't, but I did, as requested, give you an example of a corrupt democracy that solved, or reduced to manageable levels, corruption problems. Can you give me an example of a military dictatorship that did the same?

Actually you did not, you gave an example of a corrupt police force. And my example is in the first post - South korea.

The corrupt systems controlled by William Tweed and Huey Long extended well beyond the police.

A quick reading of South Korea's history educated me about the repressive dictatorship that followed the 1979 coup; it is remembered for the Gwanju massacre, and was toppled in 1987 by a popular uprising after reneging on democratic reforms. I didn't read anything that indicated that this was a corruption fighting dictatorship. Perhaps you can give more details on the history you are referring to.

It was the given reason for the original coup in south korea, the military influence lasted for about 30 years and south korea transitioned to a modern democracy, with an okish record.

Im sorry but if the only example you can muster some particular police force, going all the way back to 1920s usa. then i think you should conside that as a fail.

Just look at all the corrupt democracies that litter the world, very little changes, unless economic progress is made, then you get some progress in reducing corruption.

Anyway the arguments about democracy or corruption misframe what is happening in thailand.

[mrjohndub]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So not all men are equal.

And the law cannot be universally applied.

No wonder Thaksin is the only one in Thailand who have to pay capital gain tax from selling SHIN shares.

He deserves it.

I like laws that are biased against people who are corrupt, abuse of power, do vote buying and let kill 3000 people in his war against drugs....

You'll find out that most countries laws are biased against such people. Usually they even put them into jail....

Most democracies hope that people are at least slightly informed - and if if you think that the war on drugs and the death toll from it were solely Thaksin's responsibility and that others a little closer to the current power centre played no role, you've just failed that test.

It was Thaksin who ordered it and who also was proud of it. And it was the POLICE not the army who did it. The current power is not the police.

And his numerous cases of corruption were solely his responsibility.

Which means neither that the current government is good or bad. It means that Thaksin did many bad things.

You are having difficulty reading between the lines, so I'll lend a hand. He was acting on orders of ______________.

[tbthailand]

It is not ideal that the opposition has to be silenced I accept. Unfortunately, this was necessary in order for the general to implement the reforms in order to repair the damage done by the PTP previously with their abject government (this is a massive ask and he is doing an admiral job of it).

Don't forget, the Dems have been silenced as well so it is a ban on ALL politicians and not just some.

The benign dictatorship will give up it's power once its job is done and then cease to be after free and fair elections can be held

I love it! Yes, the benign dictatorship! The one that can do no wrong and will do nothing but good things! A benign dictatorship like, um...., well like those other benign dictatorships I can't think of but that did so many good things. Help me out SICHONSTEVE, what benign dictatorships are we referring to?

The one currently in Thailand.

Really? Benign? It is for all the anti-democratic royalists who supported Suthep and the coup. It's better than benign, it's hog-heaven.

But for the part of Thailand that was part of or supported the former government, it's not benign. For academics, especially those who support academic freedom, it's not benign. For normal Thai people like students in plays or fish-mongers, it's not benign. For any of the more than 700 people invited to week-long stays with the generals, it is not benign. Some of those folks got a free month or so along with 'special treatment'. For them it particularly not benign. For the people who, by the 10s of thousands, have been rounded up and arrested for whatever charge possible, it is not benign. For all the journalists in Thailand who like to chase the truth, it is not benign

[fab4]

It is not ideal that the opposition has to be silenced I accept. Unfortunately, this was necessary in order for the general to implement the reforms in order to repair the damage done by the PTP previously with their abject government (this is a massive ask and he is doing an admiral job of it).

Don't forget, the Dems have been silenced as well so it is a ban on ALL politicians and not just some.

The benign dictatorship will give up it's power once its job is done and then cease to be after free and fair elections can be held

I love it! Yes, the benign dictatorship! The one that can do no wrong and will do nothing but good things! A benign dictatorship like, um...., well like those other benign dictatorships I can't think of but that did so many good things. Help me out SICHONSTEVE, what benign dictatorships are we referring to?

The one currently in Thailand.

I normally associate benign with tumours - the type that have the potential to become malignant through tumour progression, in a manner of speaking

Edited October 12, 2014 by fab4

[dukebowling]

Are there really rational human beings living in the 21st century arguing for dictatorships and against democracy???

Really...???

[SICHONSTEVE]

It is not ideal that the opposition has to be silenced I accept. Unfortunately, this was necessary in order for the general to implement the reforms in order to repair the damage done by the PTP previously with their abject government (this is a massive ask and he is doing an admiral job of it).

Don't forget, the Dems have been silenced as well so it is a ban on ALL politicians and not just some.

The benign dictatorship will give up it's power once its job is done and then cease to be after free and fair elections can be held

I love it! Yes, the benign dictatorship! The one that can do no wrong and will do nothing but good things! A benign dictatorship like, um...., well like those other benign dictatorships I can't think of but that did so many good things. Help me out SICHONSTEVE, what benign dictatorships are we referring to?

The one currently in Thailand.

Is the current work in progress the only example you have?

Its the only one that matters.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Benign means 'harmless' BTW.

[SICHONSTEVE]

It is not ideal that the opposition has to be silenced I accept. Unfortunately, this was necessary in order for the general to implement the reforms in order to repair the damage done by the PTP previously with their abject government (this is a massive ask and he is doing an admiral job of it).

Don't forget, the Dems have been silenced as well so it is a ban on ALL politicians and not just some.

The benign dictatorship will give up it's power once its job is done and then cease to be after free and fair elections can be held

I love it! Yes, the benign dictatorship! The one that can do no wrong and will do nothing but good things! A benign dictatorship like, um...., well like those other benign dictatorships I can't think of but that did so many good things. Help me out SICHONSTEVE, what benign dictatorships are we referring to?

The one currently in Thailand.

Really? Benign? It is for all the anti-democratic royalists who supported Suthep and the coup. It's better than benign, it's hog-heaven.

But for the part of Thailand that was part of or supported the former government, it's not benign. For academics, especially those who support academic freedom, it's not benign. For normal Thai people like students in plays or fish-mongers, it's not benign. For any of the more than 700 people invited to week-long stays with the generals, it is not benign. Some of those folks got a free month or so along with 'special treatment'. For them it particularly not benign. For the people who, by the 10s of thousands, have been rounded up and arrested for whatever charge possible, it is not benign. For all the journalists in Thailand who like to chase the truth, it is not benign

Absolutely necessary to stop these people from disrupting his work so that it remains benign and doesn't turn back into a malignant situation that so harmed Thailand before.

As soon as his work is done and they have put everything to rights then free and fair elections can take place without corruption and populist policies!

[Robespiere]

Absolutely necessary to stop these people from disrupting his work so that it remains benign and doesn't turn back into a malignant situation that so harmed Thailand before.

As soon as his work is done and they have put everything to rights then free and fair elections can take place without corruption and populist policies!

Any free and fair election will be won by the Thaksin camp. If there are to be Junta run elections, they most certainly will not be free and fair.

Even in it's honeymoon period the Junta is too afraid to lift martial law, as time progress and the people become more emboldened the Junta will be left with just two options: maintain their rule with a far from benign iron fist or flee.

My money is on the second one.

[tbthailand]

I love it! Yes, the benign dictatorship! The one that can do no wrong and will do nothing but good things! A benign dictatorship like, um...., well like those other benign dictatorships I can't think of but that did so many good things. Help me out SICHONSTEVE, what benign dictatorships are we referring to?

The one currently in Thailand.

Really? Benign? It is for all the anti-democratic royalists who supported Suthep and the coup. It's better than benign, it's hog-heaven.

But for the part of Thailand that was part of or supported the former government, it's not benign. For academics, especially those who support academic freedom, it's not benign. For normal Thai people like students in plays or fish-mongers, it's not benign. For any of the more than 700 people invited to week-long stays with the generals, it is not benign. Some of those folks got a free month or so along with 'special treatment'. For them it particularly not benign. For the people who, by the 10s of thousands, have been rounded up and arrested for whatever charge possible, it is not benign. For all the journalists in Thailand who like to chase the truth, it is not benign

Absolutely necessary to stop these people from disrupting his work so that it remains benign and doesn't turn back into a malignant situation that so harmed Thailand before.

As soon as his work is done and they have put everything to rights then free and fair elections can take place without corruption and populist policies!

for my part, I have very strong doubts that the elections after this 'reform' process will be free and fair. Let's wait and see.

As for populist policies, that is a red herring. Look at the 'NCPO'. It has also just become a label for policies that the elites don't like. I LIKE populist policies - I think the healthcare system should be improved and free, I think the farmers of all stripes need some kind of price supports (this is a hard policy to get right - I can't think of any country that really does it well), and I think education is a populist policy and needs a high level of investment as all levels, K-12, university, vocational, continuing education, etc. Supporting culture and the arts is important and that could be labeled a populist policy. Infrastructure projects - like just to provide clean drinking water to every house - could be called a populist policy, but it would be a great one.

Apologies for the populist policy 'rant' - it is a pet peeve of mine at the moment because I feel that the label 'populist policy' in Thailand has just become a way for the 'haves' to put down ideas which might help the 'have nots'.

[JAG]

Absolutely necessary to stop these people from disrupting his work so that it remains benign and doesn't turn back into a malignant situation that so harmed Thailand before.

As soon as his work is done and they have put everything to rights then free and fair elections can take place without corruption and populist policies!

Any free and fair election will be won by the Thaksin camp. If there are to be Junta run elections, they most certainly will not be free and fair.

Even in it's honeymoon period the Junta is too afraid to lift martial law, as time progress and the people become more emboldened the Junta will be left with just two options: maintain their rule with a far from benign iron fist or flee.

My money is on the second one.

Sadly, before they flee or are chased from power, there will be a fair amount of the iron fist being chucked around.

[tbthailand]

Absolutely necessary to stop these people from disrupting his work so that it remains benign and doesn't turn back into a malignant situation that so harmed Thailand before.

As soon as his work is done and they have put everything to rights then free and fair elections can take place without corruption and populist policies!

Any free and fair election will be won by the Thaksin camp. If there are to be Junta run elections, they most certainly will not be free and fair.

Even in it's honeymoon period the Junta is too afraid to lift martial law, as time progress and the people become more emboldened the Junta will be left with just two options: maintain their rule with a far from benign iron fist or flee.

My money is on the second one.

Sadly, before they flee or are chased from power, there will be a fair amount of the iron fist being chucked around.

my money is on them sticking around for at least "as long as it takes". They are in power to protect their own interests.

My fear is that after they finish 'Job 1' they will decide they want to stick around. It wouldn't be the first time.

@Rob... flee? no, unfortunately, not likely. It would be nice, but I don't see that coming.

[See the bears]

Absolutely necessary to stop these people from disrupting his work so that it remains benign and doesn't turn back into a malignant situation that so harmed Thailand before.

As soon as his work is done and they have put everything to rights then free and fair elections can take place without corruption and populist policies!

Any free and fair election will be won by the Thaksin camp. If there are to be Junta run elections, they most certainly will not be free and fair.

Even in it's honeymoon period the Junta is too afraid to lift martial law, as time progress and the people become more emboldened the Junta will be left with just two options: maintain their rule with a far from benign iron fist or flee.

My money is on the second one.

Sadly, before they flee or are chased from power, there will be a fair amount of the iron fist being chucked around.

my money is on them sticking around for at least "as long as it takes". They are in power to protect their own interests.

My fear is that after they finish 'Job 1' they will decide they want to stick around. It wouldn't be the first time.

@Rob... flee? no, unfortunately, not likely. It would be nice, but I don't see that coming.

Nice piece from Pavin:

The Farce of Thai Corruption Cleanup

http://www.asiasentinel.com/politics/thailand-corruption-cleanup/

[Robespiere]

Absolutely necessary to stop these people from disrupting his work so that it remains benign and doesn't turn back into a malignant situation that so harmed Thailand before.

As soon as his work is done and they have put everything to rights then free and fair elections can take place without corruption and populist policies!

Any free and fair election will be won by the Thaksin camp. If there are to be Junta run elections, they most certainly will not be free and fair.

Even in it's honeymoon period the Junta is too afraid to lift martial law, as time progress and the people become more emboldened the Junta will be left with just two options: maintain their rule with a far from benign iron fist or flee.

My money is on the second one.

Sadly, before they flee or are chased from power, there will be a fair amount of the iron fist being chucked around.

my money is on them sticking around for at least "as long as it takes". They are in power to protect their own interests.

My fear is that after they finish 'Job 1' they will decide they want to stick around. It wouldn't be the first time.

@Rob... flee? no, unfortunately, not likely. It would be nice, but I don't see that coming.

Should the Reds take to the streets en masse what could the junta possibly do?

They can't shoot them down like dogs again - the world would be outraged and devastating sanctions would follow.

Despite current appearances, those that have ruled and robbed this country for decades have their backs to the wall and it is just about all over for them.

I read a Russian children’s classic called The Giant Cockroach. In the poem, the happy, pastry-munching life of the animal kingdom is broken by the appearance of “a terrible giant: the red-haired, big-whiskered cockroach.” The roach proceeds to bully far bigger animals, demanding they surrender their cubs so that he can eat them for dinner. He reduces the animals to a sobbing, quivering bunch. Wolves devour each other out of fear. An elephant shivers so much, she stumbles and sits on a hedgehog.

The cockroach rules unchallenged—until a laughing kangaroo points out that it’s no giant, but merely a cockroach. The hippos tell the insolent marsupial to shut up—“You’ll make things worse for us”—but then a sparrow comes along and swallows the bug. The animals rejoice.

It is hard not to read the poem as an allegory for the rise and fall of a dictatorship. Despots tend to appear invincible while they rule, and then laughably weak when they fall. Once their subjects call them out on their farce, dictators look ridiculous. Often, they react by killing and jailing people, which buys them more time in power (Iran, Belarus, and Uzbekistan come to mind). But just as often, when faced with a truly popular challenge, dictators shrink to the size of their inner cockroaches.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Are there really rational human beings living in the 21st century arguing for dictatorships and against democracy???

Really...???

I hope that you are not implying that Prayuth is a dictator!!

He is merely a helping hand to a nation that needed rescuing.

[tbthailand]

(quote management issues with the reply this post from Rob #141 )

I agree with your position about the junta, and I use Wiley Coyote running in thin air until he looks down and then falls as a way to describe their illusion of power.

But yes, I think that they will shoot - especially if job 1 is not done yet.

Edited October 12, 2014 by tbthailand

[Eric Loh]

Are there really rational human beings living in the 21st century arguing for dictatorships and against democracy???

Really...???

I hope that you are not implying that Prayuth is a dictator!!

He is merely a helping hand to a nation that needed rescuing.

Wiki does describe dictator is one who rule by absolute power. Isn't what he is now?

He is not rescuing the nation but rescuing the establishment.

[fab4]

Benign means 'harmless' BTW.

Not all benign tumours are harmless, which is why I specifically added "the type that have the potential to become malignant through tumour progression, in a manner of speaking". Perhaps you missed the subtlety, which one would expect from someone who believes in "benign dictatorships"

[SICHONSTEVE]

Benign means 'harmless' BTW.

Not all benign tumours are harmless, which is why I specifically added "the type that have the potential to become malignant through tumour progression, in a manner of speaking". Perhaps you missed the subtlety, which one would expect from someone who believes in "benign dictatorships"

Actually, whilst a tumour is benign it IS harmless.

Everyone has the potential to become a serial killer- does that make us all killers??

FYI he is the elected interim prime minister.

[dominique355]

What a strange attitude? In any other country this would have disqualified any member of a parliamentary or quasi-parliamentary body.

What Thailand need most and what is in dire need of reform is the rule of law, which means that the law applies equally to all, no matter who or what they did or did not.

I guess we cannot expect much of this NRC, the composition of which is already highly suspicious and biased. Too bad, an excellent opportunity missed.

[Eric Loh]

Benign means 'harmless' BTW.

Not all benign tumours are harmless, which is why I specifically added "the type that have the potential to become malignant through tumour progression, in a manner of speaking". Perhaps you missed the subtlety, which one would expect from someone who believes in "benign dictatorships"

Actually, whilst a tumour is benign it IS harmless.

Everyone has the potential to become a serial killer- does that make us all killers??

FYI he is the elected interim prime minister.

I think you mix up the word elected and selected. He was selected by a handpick NLA by a 190 vote with no objection and 3 absention.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Benign means 'harmless' BTW.

Not all benign tumours are harmless, which is why I specifically added "the type that have the potential to become malignant through tumour progression, in a manner of speaking". Perhaps you missed the subtlety, which one would expect from someone who believes in "benign dictatorships"

Actually, whilst a tumour is benign it IS harmless.

Everyone has the potential to become a serial killer- does that make us all killers??

FYI he is the elected interim prime minister.

I think you mix up the word elected and selected. He was selected by a handpick NLA by a 190 vote with no objection and 3 absention.

But hey!! selection is not a bad thing is it.

When you go to the supermarket to buy apples what do you do?

You select the BEST ones don't you.

You could even say he was appointed - again, boards appoint the most able person to be chairman/woman.

When a crooked snake oil salesman is elected then things are bound to turn bad, Thaksin and his abject sister are proof of that!

[norstatin]

I like laws that are biased against people who are corrupt, abuse of power, do vote buying and let kill 3000 people in his war against drugs....

You'll find out that most countries laws are biased against such people. Usually they even put them into jail....

Most democracies hope that people are at least slightly informed - and if if you think that the war on drugs and the death toll from it were solely Thaksin's responsibility and that others a little closer to the current power centre played no role, you've just failed that test.

It was Thaksin who ordered it and who also was proud of it. And it was the POLICE not the army who did it. The current power is not the police.

And his numerous cases of corruption were solely his responsibility.

Which means neither that the current government is good or bad. It means that Thaksin did many bad things.

You are having difficulty reading between the lines, so I'll lend a hand. He was acting on orders of ______________.

Acting entirely on his own volition.

He claimed responsibility for the original idea, its implementation, its supervision, and ultimately claimed responsibility for its success when he proclaimed that all drugs had been eradicated from all areas of Thailand.

"The government is pleased to announce that the country is now a drug-free area and will proclaim victory in its war on drugs," said Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

- The Nation / April 13, 2003

Edited October 12, 2014 by norstatin