Snooker hall licence (horror story)

[Beetlejuice]

I've 3 tables, evenly spaced with tables and chairs in between. Its all enclosed, quiet and has lit parking space. The police love it as it quiet and well maintained unlike the sheds the other 'snooker halls' have. Also, my CCTV has a camera pointing down the soi which the police asked for and its caught 2 robbers already using the night vision... its just the army who's causing me the probs. Time for a fair election and not a dictatorship forged down the barrel of a gun.

actually all the army is doing is ensuring you are a legal entity, obviously you are not and the police have been taking payments? to supply a worhtless piece of paper. You cannot bitch about the army making you become legal, that is what you should have done originally, maybe if you had checked out the laws and not relied on the local bib with their hands out you wouldnt be in this position. I am sorry for the mess you are im but trying to blame the people that found out you are illegal isnt the answer, thats like shooting someone then saying you didnt know the gun was loaded.

You should be well aware that you need to follow the laws here especially if you are a farang, not checking it out thoroughly when you opened is solely on you I am afraid, mate you just have to cop that you did the wrong thing and it is your own fault when it boils down to it. Just buy a licence and be legal then they will leave you alone, simple but the bib will still want their regular donations no doubt.

How can you say that when the army took charge.... wait for it................ ILLEGALLY !!!! They forced the legally ellected government out and told us they are in charge.... or else, plus i got the police in to check everything was legal and they said it was.... who am i to disagree with the law ? and how do you check much further than asking the law ? and who said i'm relying on the local BIB with their hands out ? i'm not. I'm in deep sh*t, today i was in a meeting with thw Amphur, police, a soliciter and the tessabarn to help sort it out. We used every peice of information available and it turns out that even with a licence you can only have one table and on that they weren't even 100%

Please dont go critisicing me on your assumptions... get your facts right and try to help C.

You are dead wrong. If you were running a totally legal business, than you would not be closed down.

The police are not lawyers, they are only law enforcers or one could describe as the muscle of the law. Even in my own country if I decided to open a business, I would first do my research and seek some professional advice. Who in their right mind would ask advice from the local PC Plod down the street regarding the legalities of running a business project such as a gaming hall.

The obvious line of legal advice should have been a reputable lawyer prior to opening your snooker hall business to ensure everything was in order and now you are bearing the consequences in which you only have yourself to blame. What is the point of criticising the junta for doing their job when your problems lie with your own incompetence.

I wonder, is your business run under an appropriate company and if so, who`s name is the business registered in?

A solution to your problem is very simple, hire the services of a lawyer that specialises in setting up foreign owned businesses and who should know how and where to obtain all the appropriate paperwork, licenses and documents. And as for getting the facts right, what I have mentioned above are the facts, the whole facts and nothing but the facts.

[slapout]

One of the first mistake was taking advice from policemen. With 3 snooker tables in the same room the required paper work, changes dramaticly. Thats why you seldomn see real snooker/pool venues here . This law/rule or whatever you want to call it has been around for 20 years that I know of. This is hear say as I have not read the law itself, but several locals confirmed what I had been told , thus they operated with a single table or a dividing wall between if a second table was part of their set up.

The army must have better or more learnered advisors than you police buddies in this case and the way things are progressing the RTP seem to have shown their diswain for proper law enforcement or even keeping abreast of much of what they did/do is illegal. The time for the accounting of police thurggery, theft, threats, and worse ishappening in given areas of Thailand and many hope it will keep expanding to include their little corrupt corner/village.

[manarak]

the license scam is very common, at least in Pattaya.

it works as follows:

1- first, the competent authority refuses to deliver a license, the appication just remains unanswered

2- then, the police come around to "check the licence" and as the business doesn't have one, police can "arrange" things for a (usually monthly) fee

3- rinse and repeat, back to square 1

most hotels and restaurants in central Pattaya do not have the proper licence because the authorities never grant them.

[Beetlejuice]

the license scam is very common, at least in Pattaya.

it works as follows:

1- first, the competent authority refuses to deliver a license, the appication just remains unanswered

2- then, the police come around to "check the licence" and as the business doesn't have one, police can "arrange" things for a (usually monthly) fee

3- rinse and repeat, back to square 1

most hotels and restaurants in central Pattaya do not have the proper licence because the authorities never grant them.

Or perhaps it`s simply because many of these business practices do not qualify for a license under Thai law?

And as I said in my previous post, than hire the services of a reputable lawyer to sort out all the wheeling and dealings prior to opening a business and if the appropriate paperwork cannot be obtained, than don`t open a business that is going to be run illegally and is going to be vulnerable to extortion (as you claim) and liable to get on the wrong side of the law.

[manarak]

the license scam is very common, at least in Pattaya.

it works as follows:

1- first, the competent authority refuses to deliver a license, the appication just remains unanswered

2- then, the police come around to "check the licence" and as the business doesn't have one, police can "arrange" things for a (usually monthly) fee

3- rinse and repeat, back to square 1

most hotels and restaurants in central Pattaya do not have the proper licence because the authorities never grant them.

Or perhaps it`s simply because many of these business practices do not qualify for a license under Thai law?

And as I said in my previous post, than hire the services of a reputable lawyer to sort out all the wheeling and dealings prior to opening a business and if the appropriate paperwork cannot be obtained, than don`t open a business that is going to be run illegally and is going to be vulnerable to extortion (as you claim) and liable to get on the wrong side of the law.

That's easier to say than to do... It's not uncommon to start a business with "pending licence", when the business has no reason to believe that the licence will not be delivered.

Also, the issue of hotel licenses depends on inspections of the facilities - how to get the license before investing and building?

you tell me?

I know several hotel owners in Pattaya who would love to have the correct licence, but the authorities simply don't issue the licence.

Of course, I can't be 100% sure because I'm not involved in russing these businesses, but I'm fairly sure the hotels fulfill the requirements.

One of the things I heard is that City Hall changed the zoning from "commercial" to "residential" (or something similar that prevents a hotel business there) after the licence had been applied for, so no license could be issued.

There are games going on, and my opinion is that the Army should also make sure that procedures are followed in business licensing and that licenses are not unduly delayed or denied.

For the usual small business bar or restaurant, guesthouse, the "extortion" fees aren't too high, between 1000 and 2000 baht monthly, so it's no wonder many businesses agree with that easy way when the authorities deny them a way to operate legally.

I would bet such schemes were (are?) also in place in Phuket, where the former mayor/kingpin recently died.

Edited October 10, 2014 by manarak

[sustento]

The laws in this country seem more grey than black and white.

They have been deigned to be a perfect midpoint grey. Not too dark but not too pale.

50 shades of grey

18 per cent grey...

[Beetlejuice]

the license scam is very common, at least in Pattaya.

it works as follows:

1- first, the competent authority refuses to deliver a license, the appication just remains unanswered

2- then, the police come around to "check the licence" and as the business doesn't have one, police can "arrange" things for a (usually monthly) fee

3- rinse and repeat, back to square 1

most hotels and restaurants in central Pattaya do not have the proper licence because the authorities never grant them.

Or perhaps it`s simply because many of these business practices do not qualify for a license under Thai law?

And as I said in my previous post, than hire the services of a reputable lawyer to sort out all the wheeling and dealings prior to opening a business and if the appropriate paperwork cannot be obtained, than don`t open a business that is going to be run illegally and is going to be vulnerable to extortion (as you claim) and liable to get on the wrong side of the law.

That's easier to say than to do... It's not uncommon to start a business with "pending licence", when the business has no reason to believe that the licence will not be delivered.

Also, the issue of hotel licenses depends on inspections of the facilities - how to get the license before investing and building?

you tell me?

I know several hotel owners in Pattaya who would love to have the correct licence, but the authorities simply don't issue the licence.

Of course, I can't be 100% sure because I'm not involved in russing these businesses, but I'm fairly sure the hotels fulfill the requirements.

One of the things I heard is that City Hall changed the zoning from "commercial" to "residential" (or something similar that prevents a hotel business there) after the licence had been applied for, so no license could be issued.

There are games going on, and my opinion is that the Army should also make sure that procedures are followed in business licensing and that licenses are not unduly delayed or denied.

For the usual small business bar or restaurant, guesthouse, the "extortion" fees aren't too high, between 1000 and 2000 baht monthly, so it's no wonder many businesses agree with that easy way when the authorities deny them a way to operate legally.

I would bet such schemes were (are?) also in place in Phuket, where the former mayor/kingpin recently died.

I fully understand where you are coming from and I am not arguing against your comments.

My points are more based on the OP`s situation and others like him, because what you have mentioned in your post may not pertain to the OP, as he did not go via the proper channels and procedures prior to opening his game hall business in the first instance, but instead took the gamble on what a policeman told him and still opened his business without fully researching what was exactly required and involved or took the chance that the police would turn a blind eye or he could pay them off each month to look the other way and not not bother him.

For those who decide to open businesses and get involved in the games as you have described above, do so at their own risk and discretion, and I have absolutely no sympathies at all when these businesses go pear shaped. Since the junta have been in power, the situation has become, who is next on their list? And my advice is to those who are running businesses that are illegal or just borderline legal or using Thai names to front their businesses, is to get their houses in order before it`s their turn for a visit, or for those considering starting a business here in Thailand, ensure that everything is done prim and proper right from inception and as the wise man says; cover your own a-ses at all times.

[manarak]

For those who decide to open businesses and get involved in the games as you have described above, do so at their own risk and discretion, and I have absolutely no sympathies at all when these businesses go pear shaped.

I think you are being unfair with the businessmen trying to run a legal business, but saw their applications unexpectedly delayed or denied for no good reason other than to easen the collection of tea money by local police.

[Beetlejuice]

For those who decide to open businesses and get involved in the games as you have described above, do so at their own risk and discretion, and I have absolutely no sympathies at all when these businesses go pear shaped.

I think you are being unfair with the businessmen trying to run a legal business, but saw their applications unexpectedly delayed or denied for no good reason other than to easen the collection of tea money by local police.

You have deleted the majority of my post in your reply and therefore does not give the full several reasons, other than the one you quote, why I made that comment and is a narrow misinterpretation as for why I don`t sympathise with these people.

Next time I suggest that you include all of the posts that you quote, so that everyone gets a clear understanding of what it means.

[manarak]

For those who decide to open businesses and get involved in the games as you have described above, do so at their own risk and discretion, and I have absolutely no sympathies at all when these businesses go pear shaped.

I think you are being unfair with the businessmen trying to run a legal business, but saw their applications unexpectedly delayed or denied for no good reason other than to easen the collection of tea money by local police.

You have deleted the majority of my post in your reply and therefore does not give the full several reasons, other than the one you quote, why I made that comment and is a narrow misinterpretation as for why I don`t sympathise with these people.

Next time I suggest that you include all of the posts that you quote, so that everyone gets a clear understanding of what it means.

I do not see in the other parts of your post any relevant reason of why you would have no sympathy with people trying to run an honest business, but who get screwed by the powers in place ?

[Aldebaran1981]

rubbish laws in a rubbish country with rubbish leaders

[chrisinth]

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A lawyer will be able to tell you the licences you need.

I see you mentioned you had CDs with receipts. What receipts is that exactly?

You probably know this already but if you play music in a resturant or bar then you need to pay a licence fee to the copyright owner - the music companies - for public usage. Actually the Army probably have no idea, but a tip off to any music company could have your business visited by police and fined.

Even if you have a licence from Grammy, you still cannot play 'copy' music or media.

ie, the licence doesn't protect you from examination. I think that might be what the OP is saying.

[seajae]

I've 3 tables, evenly spaced with tables and chairs in between. Its all enclosed, quiet and has lit parking space. The police love it as it quiet and well maintained unlike the sheds the other 'snooker halls' have. Also, my CCTV has a camera pointing down the soi which the police asked for and its caught 2 robbers already using the night vision... its just the army who's causing me the probs. Time for a fair election and not a dictatorship forged down the barrel of a gun.

actually all the army is doing is ensuring you are a legal entity, obviously you are not and the police have been taking payments? to supply a worhtless piece of paper. You cannot bitch about the army making you become legal, that is what you should have done originally, maybe if you had checked out the laws and not relied on the local bib with their hands out you wouldnt be in this position. I am sorry for the mess you are im but trying to blame the people that found out you are illegal isnt the answer, thats like shooting someone then saying you didnt know the gun was loaded.

You should be well aware that you need to follow the laws here especially if you are a farang, not checking it out thoroughly when you opened is solely on you I am afraid, mate you just have to cop that you did the wrong thing and it is your own fault when it boils down to it. Just buy a licence and be legal then they will leave you alone, simple but the bib will still want their regular donations no doubt.

How can you say that when the army took charge.... wait for it................ ILLEGALLY !!!! They forced the legally ellected government out and told us they are in charge.... or else, plus i got the police in to check everything was legal and they said it was.... who am i to disagree with the law ? and how do you check much further than asking the law ? and who said i'm relying on the local BIB with their hands out ? i'm not. I'm in deep sh*t, today i was in a meeting with thw Amphur, police, a soliciter and the tessabarn to help sort it out. We used every peice of information available and it turns out that even with a licence you can only have one table and on that they weren't even 100%

Please dont go critisicing me on your assumptions... get your facts right and try to help C.

so you went to the local police to see if you could open a gaming den for pool and that was because..........., in your own country would you go to the police or check the actual laws through a lawyer/solicitor. Anyone with half a brain knows that the rtp are useless and have no idea about the laws, usually all it takes for them to agree is a bit of tea money. Seems you are more p*ssed that you have to become LEGAL now the army is doing things as the corrupt practices that were in before hand are now being stopped. To top it off instead of getting a lawyer and checking the laws properly now you have been caught you are relying on the same people that got you in this mess, locals with no real idea of the laws at all. My assumptions are based on what you have said, no legal advice(police do not know the laws, everyone knows this) and the fact you never checked it out any further than your local red p*ss heads people, the one that needs to get his facts right is you, try doing it legally or are you too tight to pay for proper legal advice, talk about a dummy spit

[seajae]

For those who decide to open businesses and get involved in the games as you have described above, do so at their own risk and discretion, and I have absolutely no sympathies at all when these businesses go pear shaped.

I think you are being unfair with the businessmen trying to run a legal business, but saw their applications unexpectedly delayed or denied for no good reason other than to easen the collection of tea money by local police.

You have deleted the majority of my post in your reply and therefore does not give the full several reasons, other than the one you quote, why I made that comment and is a narrow misinterpretation as for why I don`t sympathise with these people.

Next time I suggest that you include all of the posts that you quote, so that everyone gets a clear understanding of what it means.

I do not see in the other parts of your post any relevant reason of why you would have no sympathy with people trying to run an honest business, but who get screwed by the powers in place ?

you seriously cannot see any valid reasons, "he did not go via the proper channels and procedures prior to opening his game hall business in the first instance, but instead took the gamble on what a policeman told him and still opened his business without fully researching what was exactly required and involved or took the chance that the police would turn a blind eye or he could pay them off each month to look the other way and not not bother him." Which part of this dont you understand or are you not capable of understanding english, do you also think that when you open a gaming area(pool hall) that you do not need to actually make sure of the laws through a lawyer to ensure that you have a legal establishment or is that too much for you to grasp. Anyone that thinks they can just start up a business in Thailand with no legal documents to back them and relying on a note from the local bib saying they dont mind is asking for trouble but then people would need to actually use their brains before they would realize this

[manarak]

you seriously cannot see any valid reasons, "he did not go via the proper channels and procedures prior to opening his game hall business in the first instance, but instead took the gamble on what a policeman told him and still opened his business without fully researching what was exactly required and involved or took the chance that the police would turn a blind eye or he could pay them off each month to look the other way and not not bother him." Which part of this dont you understand or are you not capable of understanding english, do you also think that when you open a gaming area(pool hall) that you do not need to actually make sure of the laws through a lawyer to ensure that you have a legal establishment or is that too much for you to grasp. Anyone that thinks they can just start up a business in Thailand with no legal documents to back them and relying on a note from the local bib saying they dont mind is asking for trouble but then people would need to actually use their brains before they would realize this

Beetlejuice has referenced my post, not the OP's story:

For those who decide to open businesses and get involved in the games as you have described above, do so at their own risk and discretion, and I have absolutely no sympathies at all when these businesses go pear shaped.