Wank Vs Shag - sorry not remotely the same. Pretty stupid comparison and def insulting towards women.

Wank Vs Shag - sorry not remotely the same. Pretty stupid comparison and def insulting towards women.

So we have heard how we have insulted women here, but lets here just how we have insulted them. I understand its the PC thing to say, but Brit please explain further.

Why exactly is it so insulting to say that men use women for a base need, as women use men for the same base need?

Not remotely the same? Are you sure? The need for a wank and sex are not the same? The end result of a wank and sex is not the same?

and def insulting towards women.

'def insulting towards women', Brit, you make me laugh man, what if a women said it about a man? And believe me, in this day and age of course women do. Would it def be insulting towards men then?

Perhaps people are just being honest, basing their opinions on honest feelings, and if so is that insulting or is that just the way people are made?

Lets have an honest discussion here and try to avoid scoring points for a while Brit.

Leftie and myself is saying a casual shag can be like having a wank, your saying casual sex with any girl is much like having sex with your significant other, am I right? If not, whats the inbetween?

Sure a wank feels good, but its certainly not the same as shagging a lady and being inside someone. (that is the physical aspect) Now the emotional aspect there certainly has to be some level of attraction, connection and feeling, else it certainly won't be good.

BTW has nought to do with scoring points, just how I personally feel. If one really thinks a shag/wank are the same thing - why need a woman? Perhaps this might be a suitable solution for those who really think a wank/shag are the same thing - have a relationship with your hand.

Edited August 5, 200619 yr by britmaveric

Wank Vs Shag - sorry not remotely the same. Pretty stupid comparison

Not even remotely the same? Not even remotely? It would be stupid to compare them? Wanking and casual sex are so very different?

Stupid to compare two sexual acts that are born from the same need and desire? Stupid to even imagine that the same need and desire once fulfilled (albeit it in two different ways) could not possibly leave someone feeling the same way?

We're having a discussion here Brit, say something, back up it up with something intelligent and lets all move on towards a conclusion and maybe we all learn something today. Don't just say something and expect a round of applause, thats a waste of time and bandwidth.

If you think masturbation and sex are not remotely connected and impossible to compare at any level, please enlighten us as to why.

If you think stating the point made is insulting to women, then please educate us further as to why.

Edited August 5, 200619 yr by bkkmadness

Sure a wank feels good, but its certainly not the same as shagging a lady and being inside someone. (that is the physical aspect)

Obviously in a physical aspect we all know that wanking and sex with someone is not the same.

Now the emotional aspect there certainly has to be some level of attraction, connection and feeling, else it certainly won't be good.

And causal sex is not always good. Sometimes its crap. And thats a perfect example of a time when a guy might think to himself 'I should have just had a wank". But of course to say that is insulting against women right?

BKK - I think its insulting all the way around, not just for women but men too - demeans the whole point of shagging.

As for a bad shag, sure we've all been there, but for whatever the reason it just wasnt good, no blame. I certainly wouldnt think well a wank would have been better. Prob be thinking wish we hadnt wasted each others time especially if there weren't no connection.

For me I think of who I am with, not just myself.

BTW BKK where ya been mate??? (You've been MIA for sometime)

BKK - I think its insulting all the way around, not just for women but men too - demeans the whole point of shagging.

Yep, we certainly shouldn't ever demean the act of shagging, bonking, ######ing, having it off, or getting laid in any way.

Even if we are being honest about it.

As for a bad shag, sure we've all been there, but for whatever the reason it just wasnt good, no blame.

No ones blaming anyone. Just comparing the after the sex feeling.

I certainly wouldnt think well a wank would have been better.

But it would have been similar right? I'm surprised you'd even compare them both, such a stupid comparison to make. Insulting really.

For me I think of who I am with, not just myself.

And maybe its just like a wank to the girl too, so what? No harm done, no insults made.

BTW BKK where ya been mate??? (You've been MIA for sometime)

Busy man at the moment, and I gotta be up in a few hours so might just have to catch up with this topic Sunday. Nitey nite.

Wank Vs Shag - sorry not remotely the same. Pretty stupid comparison and def insulting towards women.

Let’s face it, sex is there because of the physical pleasure it gives.

I mean, who of you out there would have sex if there was no physical pleasure involved??

Who of you would ever even think about doing it if there were no pleasure in it? It’s hard work, it’s messy, it takes time, and it could cost you (money, problems, dismemberment, life, illness....). There are an infinite number of reasons not to do it, but only two reasons to do it.

Sure, you can attach emotional feelings to the act of sex but emotional feelings are not what are driving us to the act of sex.

I think alot of women who have had sex with a man that they didn't care about usually think, after the fact, "Oh Christ, why did I do that?" Most women do find the act of sex more meaningful and it is the rare woman who casually beds any man she meets just to scratch an itch. Not saying they don't exist, but that it is not that common of an attitude amongst women and when you do find it, usually the woman has a very low self esteem. Hence this comment from yourself, bkkmadness:

I guess we'd all be better more respectful human beings if we just lied about it more. I'll have to remember whilst laying there thinking of ordering a pizza to quote some "yeah the earth moved for me' rubbish. It seems thats whats some women love to believe.

So, based on this, it is pretty obvious that you, at least, seem to have the basic understanding that it has more meaning for a woman than just masturbation.

And yes, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that men use women. How would you feel if someone approached your daughter with that attitude? I mean, lets get personal here, we are talking about human beings, not plastic blowup dolls. Be honest, if you had a daughter (or a sister) and you found out that some guy was after her for just a casual shag with no other motive than to use her like a thing, how would you feel?

ok sbk and brit, let's turn this on its head.

you say its wrong to compare sex with having a wank, as though it is demeaning to think of such a thing in those terms.

how do you thinks pros view sex while they are going with customers?

is the fact it is 'sex' means that it has to be something meaningful?

to them it is just a physical act, i suppose the same as a woman who works in a legit thai massage place feels when she is kneading your back. it's nothing special, just a physical act.

you both seem to have a very victorian view of sex.

Left - perhaps it does mean smth to a pro, now that would be smth wouldn't it???

Most women do find the act of sex more meaningful and it is the rare woman who casually beds any man she meets just to scratch an itch. Not saying they don't exist, but that it is not that common of an attitude amongst women and when you do find it, usually the woman has a very low self esteem.

'Most women', 'usually have low self esteem' - quoting facts and figures are we? Will Kat come along with a statistic from a Chula university student in a minute?

Lots of girls have casual sex for fun and to scratch that itch, and they have no self esteem problems. I'm not sure why you think they have low self esteem as all. You need to explain that more, as I don't even see what self esteem has to do with it.

We are in the 21st Century now, women are more empowered to have sex to scratch that itch, and more and more women do so. Good on them.

And yes, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that men use women.

I did also say women use men.

How would you feel if someone approached your daughter with that attitude? I mean, lets get personal here, we are talking about human beings, not plastic blowup dolls. Be honest, if you had a daughter (or a sister) and you found out that some guy was after her for just a casual shag with no other motive than to use her like a thing, how would you feel?

Yeah of course it'd piss me off because its my daughter but I'd totally understand it. I wouldn't stick my head in the sand and deny that men think that way. I wouldn't consider it an insulting attitude, much more a natural one.

By using the daughter scenario don't you think you are trying to cloud the issue with personal feelings? Obviously a father's rational thinking does not always work when it comes to his own daughter.

It's like the same rebuttal I see used when people discuss prostitution on this board and someone against it says to another "Well if you agree with it that means you'd be happy if your daughter worked as a prostitute?". Its a poor way to try to make a point IMHO.

Edited August 6, 200619 yr by bkkmadness

If you want to wank then wank. Women are not a receptacle for a man's use. They are human beings with feelings and concerns.

That is the disgusting attitude towards women. You don't think it is? Well, I am a woman and I think it is. Kat is a woman and she thinks it is, and most people who are a bit empathetic would find it supremely selfish and self centered.

I think the last few posts outline the difference between male and female attitudes when it comes to sex.

Women, like it or not.. men can have sex without having any emotional connections with the person. This is not a new revelation, it's how it has been since forever... everybody knows about this.

Some men over do it a little as in that they can be pick 'em up and throw 'em away after, BUT many don't.

totster

In Thailand it's obvious that the male attitude is generally accepted and the norm. I was recently on a business trip upcountry and my female coworkers kept teasing our male coworkers about going out on the prowl at night (though all they were all known to have gfs/wives). No apparent show of disapproval at all.

Funny how the farangs that have been in Thailand for quite a while also adopt the habit.

Yes, Kitty, that's exactly what I mean. The male attitudes in LOS are markedly different than most male attitudes in the West. Things are very easy here for them, they are used to being constantly pursued, and many do seem to have a very self-gratifying attitude when it comes to women.

Quite simply: women are not urinals. I don't care if it's a wank or a shag, if you need to be told this then you are simply confirming why I DON'T find the majority of males here attractive.

Most women do find the act of sex more meaningful and it is the rare woman who casually beds any man she meets just to scratch an itch. Not saying they don't exist, but that it is not that common of an attitude amongst women and when you do find it, usually the woman has a very low self esteem.

'Most women', 'usually have low self esteem' - quoting facts and figures are we? Will Kat come along with a statistic from a Chula university student in a minute?

Letmesee: do I need a statistic to say that many men here would not be nearly as lucky back home? Well, off I go then

lets put it this way bkkmadness. I am a woman. I understand more about women and how they think then you ever will in a lifetime. Women do not think or react in the same way as men. Period. You may think you understand or know but very few men actually know a woman well enough to know all about her, and I include husbands/boyfriends in that. If that is all too mysterious for you well, then thats because you are a man and you just don't get it. Sorry

And lets not bring prostitutes into this discussion please, we are not discussing prostitutes but married men and how their wives feel. Not how the prostitutes feel.

Women do not think or react in the same way as men. Period.

This was exactly my point earlier.

The thing that I find most surprising is that you and others in this topic are branding men as disgusting because they are thinking and reacting as men do. You seem to know that there is a fundamental difference in the way men and women think, yet when you hear the thinking out loud you get all insulted. Wake up, it's not going to change because you feel disgusted, or insulted.. luckily you are able to weed out the guys who act at the end of the scale and try and find a man who will treat you closer to how you feel you should be. It's called selection.

It's important to understand that although some men might behave as though a woman is just a "wank" not all do... otherwise women just would not find partners..

I know Brit was saying that he has to have an emotional connection.. maybe he would like to think he has.. and I would also like to think that I have... but like it or not, he and I are driven by the same carnal desire as all other men, and are succeptable to the pot holes that come with it... The way that most men deal with this is by thinking about the other partner, respecting or even common courtesy, many men know what is right and what is wrong when it comes to women.. But even that it fallable, too many drinks, and the carnal desire and lust takes over, no way to stop it.. More than once in the past I have ended up in bed with a women who I didn't even find attractive, I was just satisfying one of the basic desires in life.. sex. IMHO, most single men would not turn down an offer of sex.

totster

Edited August 6, 200619 yr by Totster

Totser:

I'm not branding men as disgusting because they think as men do. I'm branding certain attitudes by certain types of men as disgusting. I'm branding the type of man or male attitude that separates women out as wanks apart from sexual experiences/desire/attraction even for a night, is one that has accepted dehumanizing attitudes towards women as the norm. And yes, I find this disgusting beyond belief.

Contrary to what you may say, I am a woman and I have experiences with men as such.

I can tell you there is an overwhelming and undeniable difference in the male attitudes I have encountered in LOS, to those at home. In my view, this is not random, and it's no accident.

" ... You seem to know that there is a fundamental difference in the way men and women think, yet when you hear the thinking out loud you get all insulted. " Totster quote

I have heard men think out loud before. For me, casual sex here is not the issue. It's the attitudes and values of the men themselves. Women are not always privy to what men say amongst themselves, but we definitely know the difference in how they make us feel. You don't have to state what you say to us, because we will know by your actions.

I think the majority of foreign men have no idea how unacceptable they have become according to Western dating/sexual/romantic norms and expectations. I think many of them have no idea how glaringly obvious it is that their sexual approach and attitude towards women have been tainted by the sex trade, and easy and abundant opportunities.

Actually tots, my post was directed at the idea that sex outside of a relationship was the same for women as it was for men.

I may be naive but I would hope that more men are decent than are self centered CMBs (child in man's body) who view women as solely as a thing to use.

And tots, just because alot of men think that way doesn't make it any less disgusting. Just because alot of men think its ok to beat their wives or kids too, doesn't make it a good thing.

I think the majority of foreign men have no idea how unacceptable they have become according to Western dating/sexual/romantic norms and expectations. I think many of them have no idea how glaringly obvious it is that their sexual approach and attitude towards women have been tainted by the sex trade, and easy and abundant opportunities.

I can't understand why you lump all foreign men in the "unnaceptable" group. Surely not all of us are like that !

There are many of us married quite happily to Thai women, and monogomous at that. I don't think my attitude towards women has been tainted, I am quite devoted, as are many other foreigners with their wifes/girlfriends.

Personally I think the men you talk about with their poor attitudes towards women have always been that way. These men are more likely to be attracted to Thailand for one reason which is the sex trade and women that will put up with the poor attitude, this means you will see a concentration of this type.

totster

No, I don't think they're all that way, but for obvious reasons, there are more significant numbers of them here.

For once I have to agree with the "wimmin" on the forum, you can't compare having a wank to having sex

women are ok but you can't beat the real thing

<deleted> would you "wimmin" know about having a wank!!!!!!

I rest my case

Yes, Kitty, that's exactly what I mean. The male attitudes in LOS are markedly different than most male attitudes in the West. Things are very easy here for them, they are used to being constantly pursued, and many do seem to have a very self-gratifying attitude when it comes to women.

Maybe we are just more honest?

Quite simply: women are not urinals. I don't care if it's a wank or a shag, if you need to be told this then you are simply confirming why I DON'T find the majority of males here attractive.

What are you talking about, women as urinals?

Letmesee: do I need a statistic to say that many men here would not be nearly as lucky back home? Well, off I go then

Your clear prejudices and issues against men that live in Thailand are clear Kat but to be honest I would have hoped that you could have brought something more to the conversaton than personal angst. Quite dissapointing really.

lets put it this way bkkmadness. I am a woman. I understand more about women and how they think then you ever will in a lifetime. Women do not think or react in the same way as men. Period. You may think you understand or know but very few men actually know a woman well enough to know all about her, and I include husbands/boyfriends in that. If that is all too mysterious for you well, then thats because you are a man and you just don't get it. Sorry

So is this post to say you understand the thoughts and feelings of all women in the world and they all agree with you because thats the way you think?

Last I heard women were individuals with their own minds. I'm not sure you're allowed to speak for them all SBK.

You don't have to state what you say to us, because we will know by your actions.

So you can tell me with 100% accuracy every thought and feeling every man has had for you after having sex with you. What utter rubbish. What arrogance. What naiveity.

I may be naive but I would hope that more men are decent than are self centered CMBs (child in man's body) who view women as solely as a thing to use.

Yep I'd hope so too, but then nobody was talking about 'solely' before, you seem to have conveniently slipped that in.

And tots, just because alot of men think that way doesn't make it any less disgusting. Just because alot of men think its ok to beat their wives or kids too, doesn't make it a good thing.

Your arguments are getting sillier and sillier, having a shag with a girl you hardly know and comparing it to a wank is not the same on any level as beating women and children.

I expect the old ' all men are potential rapists' will come out soon too.

I think the majority of foreign men have no idea how unacceptable they have become according to Western dating/sexual/romantic norms and expectations.

And is the western dating/sexual/romantic norm the set world standard now? The official right way to do things?

I think many of them have no idea how glaringly obvious it is that their sexual approach and attitude towards women have been tainted by the sex trade, and easy and abundant opportunities.

Not all men are here are tainted by the sex trade Kat, do bear that in mind when having a discussion with men you don't know.

Kat - I'll preface this with I treat ladies with respect regardless who they are, whether thai or farang. I'm sure you know this about me already.

Anyways interesting you point out the role reversal - yes farang men are sought after commodity in the East. Does it go to some lads heads, most likely. However let's think about how some ladies in the West treat lads. It's obvious the same happens to men in the west - that you gripe about here. It certainly doesn't make it right, but you can understand how jaded some men become but the caveat here is not exactly a role reversal as such because diff pool of ladies are involved and by shear numbers Thais/Asians ladies are on top. The funny thing is taking all in context - there shouldnt be any gripes towards western women.

Yes, Kitty, that's exactly what I mean. The male attitudes in LOS are markedly different than most male attitudes in the West. Things are very easy here for them, they are used to being constantly pursued, and many do seem to have a very self-gratifying attitude when it comes to women.

Maybe we are just more honest?

Quite simply: women are not urinals. I don't care if it's a wank or a shag, if you need to be told this then you are simply confirming why I DON'T find the majority of males here attractive.

What are you talking about, women as urinals?

Letmesee: do I need a statistic to say that many men here would not be nearly as lucky back home? Well, off I go then

Your clear prejudices and issues against men that live in Thailand are clear Kat but to be honest I would have hoped that you could have brought something more to the conversaton than personal angst. Quite dissapointing really.

You don't have to state what you say to us, because we will know by your actions.

So you can tell me with 100% accuracy every thought and feeling every man has had for you after having sex with you. What utter rubbish. What arrogance. What naiveity.

I think the majority of foreign men have no idea how unacceptable they have become according to Western dating/sexual/romantic norms and expectations.

And is the western dating/sexual/romantic norm the set world standard now? The official right way to do things?

I think many of them have no idea how glaringly obvious it is that their sexual approach and attitude towards women have been tainted by the sex trade, and easy and abundant opportunities.

Not all men are here are tainted by the sex trade Kat, do bear that in mind when having a discussion with men you don't know.

In all seriousness, while I enjoy dialogue with you sometimes BKKmadness, I feel that most of your responses here are idiotic, so I won't bother.

Let me just reiterate the obvious: I am a woman in LOS; I have varied contacts with foreign men here in LOS, as a foreign woman; the culture is different in LOS than most Westerners' shared Western culture; the female and male culture is different in LOS, and the male/female interactive culture is different in LOS; Western men are viewed and treated differently in LOS than in the West, and their daily prospects are different in LOS than in the West.

Hence, many Western males assume a significantly different attitude, manner, and approach here in LOS than Western males in the West.

Got it this time? 'hope so.

Let me just reiterate the obvious: I am a woman in LOS; I have varied contacts with foreign men here in LOS, as a foreign woman; the culture is different in LOS than most Westerners' shared Western culture; the female and male culture is different in LOS, and the male/female interactive culture is different in LOS; Western men are viewed and treated differently in LOS than in the West, and their daily prospects are different in LOS than in the West.

Hence, many Western males assume a significantly different attitude, manner, and approach here in LOS than Western males in the West.

What a weak argument you have used here Kat:

"Well, your a man in Thailand, of course you think like that!"

Your whole point is that Leftcross and I made the wank/sex comparison because we are western men in Thailand and our attitude has changed because of that.

Considering you haven't met either of us, you don't think thats prejudice in anyway at all?

And if a man that had never been to Thailand made that same comparison, what would your response be then?

Edited August 7, 200619 yr by bkkmadness