But our cultural, ethnic, racial, national, and socio-economic backgrounds inform a lot of who we are, don't you think?

You can't judge people to be racist or not racist on these patterns, its foolish.

And you're right, this converstaion is bordering on the absurd.

Who is judging people to be racist on these terms?????? I'm simply talking about differences in identities. You have no idea what I'm talking about.

1. Do you mind clarifying what you mean here. I am not THE representative, but I am representative of the same ethnicity and cultural background. Hence, THE question: How many people of color or non-white viewpoints have you actually listened to in the UK and the US .....

Kat.. Where I stay (in the UK) there is a huge immigrant community, I buy phonecards from a Pakistani guy, I sit down we talk about many things.

The company I work for is owned by Indians, we interact everyday, I socialise with the boss, I know the problems they face, I know their views on certain aspects.

I also know about the problems some of the new employees encountered when they first came into the UK, I also know how they feel now..

My first "proper" relationship was with a girl of mixed race, her mother was Afro-Carribean, her father was white. She lived in a town in the Forest of Dean, attitudes in this place are very different from larger towns and cities, it's quite remote. Even in this remote place with some very traditional attitudes their family was a involved in the community, yes.. they had some idiots to put up with, but ignored they go away. I spent 4 years as part of that household, so I think I am well placed to have a good idea how it is.

As for the US, well I can only go on others opinions and recounts... but everything still points to the US being far behind when it comes to integration.

I watched a documentary on the TV the other night. It was about the migration years ago of the Afro-Carribeans into the UK and how their culture and ways of life have become integrated into UK life... it also went on to conclude that in 3-4 generations there won't even be a distinction between the Afro-Carribean community and the white population due to interacial partnerships.. what about that eh ?

2. And my further and previous point: why the <deleted> would I bother to make a veiled insult toward you or anyone, when I'm perfectly capable of making a direct one.

Yes indeed.. why ?

3. No relevance? and YOU didn't like it? So you felt it was reasonable to jump on me in the middle of an honest discussion and call me stupid because you didn't like it? And they say Americans don't get irony

Hold on... I just read back. I didn't call YOU stupid, I said it was a stupid thing to say.

And I didn't say it was a stupid thing to say because I didn't like it, I said it because it was a stupid thing to say.

What I didn't like was the way you managed to get into a discussion the implication that the English are racist. And I wonder why you did that.

totster

Ok, Totster, now I feel like we are having an honest discussion again. Please understand one thing about me: I am not one to make veiled insults if I can do it direct My nature is just not put together that way.

Let me read the rest of your post and I will respond.

Kat - you'll have to explain to me about these 3 english lads. They obviously had a very negative impact on you and I'm a bit sad that its tainted your view on my fellow country men. We aren't all the same that I can guaranteed you.

As for self gratification - I tend to want to please my partner, only thinking of myself surely wouldnt be very gratifying for me. Sure prob in my younger teenage years I prob thought only of myself, but this is what I call growing up. Respect others.

Nothing to do with disrespecting people, its human nature. You can't call human nature disgusting can you?

No quite frankly, as I've made abundantly clear, I find men who hold attitudes like that disgusting. I am also quite tired of your harangue.

And I asked some questions which you conveniently avoided.

What I really find happening here is that you are trying to shove me into a box so that you can try and discredit me according to your selective reasoning.

Exactly the same as earlier when you shoved me and Leftcross into a box based on your own selective reasoning about men in Thailand. Stings when the shoes on the other foot, doesn't it?

What I find is happening here is that I am making points that are pinning you down and pointing out some major flaws in your character (namely sexism and other forms of discrimnation based on foolish observations) and you think its just another white english male in Thailand attacking you because your a woman and of course, we all hate women.

Or perhaps you dont really think that, but its a convenient escape route for you, blame it all on bkkmadness's selective reasoning, "hes a sexist man in Thailand, don't listen to him anyone!".

I'm surprised you haven't thrown the racist card at me yet, but well there was quite a few comments regarding the racist white english males, I expect thats all you could get away with today.

A court of law could never pin you down for discrimination Kat since you throw in words like 'many' and 'a significant amount' when describing men in Thailand, or white english males when its quite clear you feel its 'the majority'.

You seem to use your status as a black woman to hide behind, blaming your problems on other peoples racism and sexism, even when they don't exist aside from in your own paranoid head.

When you discussed your abusive english bfs, your major point was that they was all English, that was just before you told us which of them were white and which were black, and only as an afterthought did you mention that the problem might not have been that they were English, but you could have just picked the wrong individuals. Finally, pointing a finger at yourself for your own shortcomings, a step forward I suppose, keep it up.

I think its quite obvious to anyone reading your recent posts that you have a huge chip on your shoulder and its something you need to get rid of.

Edited August 7, 200619 yr by bkkmadness

Kat - you'll have to explain to me about these 3 english lads. They obviously had a very negative impact on you and I'm a bit sad that its tainted your view on my fellow country men. We aren't all the same that I can guaranteed you.

She does understand that not all English males are like that and there are individual males who are not like that, but she did have relationships with three English men and they all abused her so............theres got to be some connection hasn't there? Connections got to be something to do with their race or nationality hasn't it? Certainly worth a mention.

As for self gratification - I tend to want to please my partner, only thinking of myself surely wouldnt be very gratifying for me. Sure prob in my younger teenage years I prob thought only of myself, but this is what I call growing up. Respect others.

Obviously sex with your partner and casual sex with some girl you met in a nightclub a few hours before is different. Precisely the point Leftcross made. Sex with your partner does involve respect, whereas casual sex to fulfil a need is more akin to having a wank.

Even though you went through a stage like this in your teenage years Brit, whereas some people would consider it natural, others would consider it a disgusting attitude towards women. It seems naturally functioning men are by their very nature disgustingly disrepectful to women by having self gratifying sex.

Totser: I don't mean to imply that the English are any more racist than anywhere else. I think they are just as racist, but in different ways, as the states. In certain attitudes or ways I think they can be more racist, or appear that way, but this is just my impression (which I readily admit is still open) and I'll tell you why in a minute.

I've come across many English who like to think that England is so far ahead of the states in terms of racism, but I and many other people of color I have talked to don't see it that way. One recurring impression I get from alot of English people is that the United States is this uniform collection of areas, people, and attitudes. America also has diverse, unconventional, integrated, segragated, and hippy towns, in many different combinations. Perhaps you never hear about this? I also think there are a lot of stereotypes of America that are constantly propogated by the tabloids and the same pervasive attitudes. I have seen this myself by watching and reading UK media.

The states had a Civil Rights Era which had to confront many of these attitudes in practice, on the street, in law, and on paper. It evolved into a dialogue and a culture, taken to excess sometimes, which still continues today. However, I think because of this, there has been a different awareness about diversity and multiculturalism than there in the UK. I said different, but I didn't say this awareness does not exist in the UK. Of course it does, but it is much different, and at times, seems less sensitive than in the United States. I have also been told this by Black Brits who reside or have visited the states for a length of time.

At any rate, I'm not stating any of this as fact or conclusive. This is a discussion. But, at minimum, I seriously doubt that England is ahead of the states in regards to race.

And, whose recounts and opinions are you going on concerning the states?

I can tell you, in addition to people and friends I've talked to that include Black Brits, there are clues and things I've observed and picked up on myself through the media, internet, and social interactions. I have never even been to England yet, but I have seen examples of racial body types being denigrated within English culture in a way that would not occur so easily in the states. I've already heard the saying " a bum like the back of a telly" is undesirable; I've heard Jennifer Lopez's body denigrated on a popular white comedy show in a very racially and culturally insensitive way; I've heard English friends talk about "attractive" and "unattractive" body types; and I've heard the way some English men (and other Anglos) talk about black women's bodies. In the states, there is much more diversity of opinion about beauty, among many different groups.

There also seem to be just as many ignorant and pissed off Brits as there are Americans, only manifested differently. In England, there is a lot of anti-refugee sentiment (I'm NOT making a judgement here), which seeps into a lot of other racial sentiments. There are racial crimes, racial biases, and racial insensitivity. I think the accurate answer would be that some things may be better, and some things may be worse.

Edited August 7, 200619 yr by kat

Kat - you'll have to explain to me about these 3 english lads. They obviously had a very negative impact on you and I'm a bit sad that its tainted your view on my fellow country men. We aren't all the same that I can guaranteed you.

As for self gratification - I tend to want to please my partner, only thinking of myself surely wouldnt be very gratifying for me. Sure prob in my younger teenage years I prob thought only of myself, but this is what I call growing up. Respect others.

No, no, no. It's more than 3, which is what I've been saying. But, I've also been saying that I have friends and don't confine anyone to that box. I'm open.

It's just that based on many experiences both personal and observed, as well as cultural - as an ethnic latin female - I don't think I am generally compatible with the English male. I'm always open to exceptions.

Nothing to do with disrespecting people, its human nature. You can't call human nature disgusting can you?

No quite frankly, as I've made abundantly clear, I find men who hold attitudes like that disgusting. I am also quite tired of your harangue.

And I asked some questions which you conveniently avoided.

What I really find happening here is that you are trying to shove me into a box so that you can try and discredit me according to your selective reasoning.

Exactly the same as earlier when you shoved me and Leftcross into a box based on your own selective reasoning about men in Thailand. Stings when the shoes on the other foot, doesn't it?

What I find is happening here is that I am making points that are pinning you down and pointing out some major flaws in your character (namely sexism and other forms of discrimnation based on foolish observations) and you think its just another white english male in Thailand attacking you because your a woman and of course, we all hate women.

Or perhaps you dont really think that, but its a convenient escape route for you, blame it all on bkkmadness's selective reasoning, "hes a sexist man in Thailand, don't listen to him anyone!".

I'm surprised you haven't thrown the racist card at me yet, but well there was quite a few comments regarding the racist white english males, I expect thats all you could get away with today.

A court of law could never pin you down for discrimination Kat since you throw in words like 'many' and 'a significant amount' when describing men in Thailand, or white english males when its quite clear you feel its 'the majority'.

You seem to use your status as a black woman to hide behind, blaming your problems on other peoples racism and sexism, even when they don't exist aside from in your own paranoid head.

When you discussed your abusive english bfs, your major point was that they was all English, that was just before you told us which of them were white and which were black, and only as an afterthought did you mention that the problem might not have been that they were English, but you could have just picked the wrong individuals. Finally, pointing a finger at yourself for your own shortcomings, a step forward I suppose, keep it up.

I think its quite obvious to anyone reading your recent posts that you have a huge chip on your shoulder and its something you need to get rid of.

I find your posts bizarre. You still are not responding to what I'm actually saying. You are accusing me of throwing a racist card which I have not even thrown, and you are trying to grind a previous grude from another thread into this one as an attempt to discredit my entire point of view, regardless of what I am actually saying on either

I just simply can't talk to you, not out of personal offense, but because I feel like I am trying to dial up on a modem to outer space

I've already heard the saying " a bum like the back of a telly" is undesirable; I've heard Jennifer Lopez's body denigrated on a popular white comedy show in a very racially and culturally insensitive way; I've heard English friends talk about "attractive" and "unattractive" body types; and I've heard the way some English men (and other Anglos) talk about black women's bodies. In the states, there is much more diversity of opinion about beauty, among many different groups.

Kat.. People are entitled to their opinions and to voice them outloud. The thing is that different race groups do have specific features, and some people will find these features undesirable. Why shouldn't they.

To some a stereotypical black womans body is unattractive, how can someone change what they find attractive..? Yet to an equal amount it's beauty itself. Are you suggesting that men not talk about what features they like or dislike in a womans body ?? Or even make themselves like a certain body type so as not offend ?

totster

and you are trying to grind a previous grude from another thread into this one as an attempt to discredit my entire point of view, regardless of what I am actually saying on either blink.gif

What previous grudge on what other thread? We haven't been discussing anything on any other thread but this one.

As an ethnic latin female - I don't think I am generally compatible with the English male. I'm always open to exceptions.

Um not so sure of that Kat - I don't think you've met the right available englishmen yet. As for compatability - don't think nationalities/ethnicities come into play - compatability based on interests, feelings, mutual attraction and generally what is inside a person.

There also seem to be just as many ignorant and pissed off Brits as there are Americans, only manifested differently. In England, there is a lot of anti-refugee sentiment (I'm NOT making a judgement here), which seeps into a lot of other racial sentiments. There are racial crimes, racial biases, and racial insensitivity. I think the accurate answer would be that some things may be better, and some things may be worse.

One thing I do have to add...

One thing that needs to be taken into account are the number of members of minority groups that are totally prejudice towards the people they have chosen to live with in the UK. These people will live in the UK society all their life and constantly find faults and cry unfairness. This section of the minority does nothing hinder relationships.

The point is that there is racism in all groups... not just in the majority group.

And the refugee/asylum seeker thing.. well, thats a whole other kettle of fish.. and not something to get into now I think.

totster

As for compatability - don't think nationalities/ethnicities come into play - compatability based on interests, feelings, mutual attraction and generally what is inside a person.

This is true Brit.. personally it would not bother me what nationality/race a prospective partner is, as long as there is a physical attraction and a emotional bond, not neccesarily that order, and yes IMHO physical attraction is needed in most cases..

However, there are certain features that I find physically attractive, which I suppose could not be found in all nationalities... which would mean I suppose that nationality/race does become important, but not decisive.

totster

I have never even been to England yet,

Ho hum....

well isn't this interesting, so....a lot of men find casual sex to be the same as having a wank & a lot of women find this anaolgy offensive. Is that about it?

Personally I don't find it offensive as I know too well that men & women have polar opposite views when it comes to the basic sexual need (from my own experiences, of course ) but do find the open expression of that opinion to be base & crude. Even with a one night stand or a hooker there should be a level of basic consideration IMO. You may not want to marry the women in question but it doesn't hurt to be a gentleman about the act.

As for the rest of it, well, bkk & kat, can you take it to pm pls or start another thread as all this race, ethinicity, nationality, man/women stuff is WAY off topic & you have both managed to fill about 5 pages over night.

actually the whole sex/wank thing is off topic too. I just had to re-read the heading to remember.

well isn't this interesting, so....a lot of men find casual sex to be the same as having a wank & a lot of women find this anaolgy offensive. Is that about it?

Personally I don't find it offensive as I know too well that men & women have polar opposite views when it comes to the basic sexual need (from my own experiences, of course ) but do find the open expression of that opinion to be base & crude.

Even with a one night stand or a hooker there should be a level of basic consideration IMO. You may not want to marry the women in question but it doesn't hurt to be a gentleman about the act.

It is as an expression that is base and crude, but its also honest and if this is not the place where we can open express ourselves, then really, where is? Considering the comment was made on a discussion board there seemed to be no real reason to be a gentlemen about it. I would understand that if it was said to a girl Ive just slept with, but quite obviously that is not the case here. If you want us to talk like 'gentlemen' at all times then you'll never hear a lot of truths.

I don't expect to be told that I have to be just as careful with my words here when talking to women on this discussion board as to talking to a woman I have just slept with. I don't expect it to be assumed because I have made honest though ungentlemen like comments here that I treat women with no consideration and am insulting to women. Thats not the case at all and I was kind of annoyed to be branded as such because certain people didn't seem to understand the point that was being made.

actually the whole sex/wank thing is off topic too. I just had to re-read the heading to remember.

You're totally right Boo, you'll hear no more about it. It was a quick one lined comment from a poster here that was pounced upon by other members ending up with some quite unflattering and discriminatory comments made about white english males and western males in LOS. If it was the other way round and simlar comments were made about white english girls and western women in LOS I'm sure it would have been stepped on a bit quicker with warnings issued and posts deleted as appropriate.

touchy touchy bkk, where have I said that you have to be careful with your words. You will be if you start making up comments that aren't there though

MY opinion, as expressed above, is mine & I am entitled to have it. I PERSONALLY find anyone referring to casual sex the same as a wank not offensive but find the need to say it crude.

IMO the original comment was said for a reaction & it certainly got one.

But whatever slanging match you & kat have got into overnight BKK, In future may I suggest you use the "report this post" button if there is anything you find offensive. You conducted most of this topic overnight or late night so limited mods were on duty but by reporting posts that upset you will ensure that several will be able to monitor the topic. Thats what it is there for.

touchy touchy bkk, where have I said that you have to be careful with your words. You will be if you start making up comments that aren't there though

Your right Boo, I was half referring to the need that I have to be more careful with my words on this web board in the future so people don't get the wrong impression of myself and the other half was me being a bit touchy. Apologies.

MY opinion, as expressed above, is mine & I am entitled to have it. I PERSONALLY find anyone referring to casual sex the same as a wank not offensive but find the need to say it crude.

Yep, I know, you did just say that before and I did just agree with you. I didn't say that you shouldn't have your opinion or that you are not entitled to it.

I really don't understand why people need to point out that the comment they are making is their own opinion and that they are entitled to it. Surely just seeing that the comment is made in a box with your name next to it is enough to know that people are aware its your own opinion. And I think most people that have reached adulthood would be aware that people are of course entitled to their own opinons so it doesn't need to be explained.

IMO the original comment was said for a reaction & it certainly got one.

Quite an over the top one really.

But whatever slanging match you & kat have got into overnight BKK, In future may I suggest you use the "report this post" button if there is anything you find offensive. You conducted most of this topic overnight or late night so limited mods were on duty but by reporting posts that upset you will ensure that several will be able to monitor the topic. Thats what it is there for.

I personally feel a good heated argument/discussion is always going to be more productive than asking a mod to slap someone on the wrist because they disagree with you.

anyways, I'll stop being a touchy lil shit now, and apologies to the OP for taking over the topic, you can partially blame it on a cup of tea that I had past my usual hour last night, I can turn into a caffiene monster sometimes.

Edited August 8, 200619 yr by bkkmadness

Sorry about that Boo. It did occur late at night. I cannot even read BKKmad's posts anymore, because he stopped making sense to me a long time ago. My internet was shut down abruptly a couple of nights ago, so I was unable to post.

I just want to respond to a couple of commments mostly to Totster, because I think he deserves one. Thanks for being patient and not shutting it down.

And btw: thanks Britmaverick and Thaibebop!

I've already heard the saying " a bum like the back of a telly" is undesirable; I've heard Jennifer Lopez's body denigrated on a popular white comedy show in a very racially and culturally insensitive way; I've heard English friends talk about "attractive" and "unattractive" body types; and I've heard the way some English men (and other Anglos) talk about black women's bodies. In the states, there is much more diversity of opinion about beauty, among many different groups.

Kat.. People are entitled to their opinions and to voice them outloud. The thing is that different race groups do have specific features, and some people will find these features undesirable. Why shouldn't they.

To some a stereotypical black womans body is unattractive, how can someone change what they find attractive..? Yet to an equal amount it's beauty itself. Are you suggesting that men not talk about what features they like or dislike in a womans body ?? Or even make themselves like a certain body type so as not offend ?

totster

There also seem to be just as many ignorant and pissed off Brits as there are Americans, only manifested differently. In England, there is a lot of anti-refugee sentiment (I'm NOT making a judgement here), which seeps into a lot of other racial sentiments. There are racial crimes, racial biases, and racial insensitivity. I think the accurate answer would be that some things may be better, and some things may be worse.

One thing I do have to add...

One thing that needs to be taken into account are the number of members of minority groups that are totally prejudice towards the people they have chosen to live with in the UK. These people will live in the UK society all their life and constantly find faults and cry unfairness. This section of the minority does nothing hinder relationships.

The point is that there is racism in all groups... not just in the majority group.

And the refugee/asylum seeker thing.. well, thats a whole other kettle of fish.. and not something to get into now I think.

totster

Tots: I totally agree with your last two posts, especially the above. I think I was trying to say something a bit more complicated, and I have maintained that while I notice dominant patterns, I am always open to individuals and exceptions. Every society has their broad patterns and views, and the people who are outside of that.

I don't think I even said anything bad, but was diplomatic in using the word "compatible". This has just been my repeated experience, and I'm sorry about that.

I have never even been to England yet,

Ho hum....

ho hum - I've lived in 2 different countries for a total period of 6 years, with a large number of English expats; I participated in an academic project in Asia with students from an English university in which our teams were mixed between the American and English university; I have very close English friends who are female; I've dated in total 5 English men, and, I participate on this forum for what - almost 2 years - interacting with a large group of English males, in addition to watching BBC daily.

I do want to go to England soon, but that is not totally necessary for me to discern general attitudes and traits of English people, and in particular, English men.

well isn't this interesting, so....a lot of men find casual sex to be the same as having a wank & a lot of women find this anaolgy offensive. Is that about it?

Personally I don't find it offensive as I know too well that men & women have polar opposite views when it comes to the basic sexual need (from my own experiences, of course ) but do find the open expression of that opinion to be base & crude. Even with a one night stand or a hooker there should be a level of basic consideration IMO. You may not want to marry the women in question but it doesn't hurt to be a gentleman about the act.

As for the rest of it, well, bkk & kat, can you take it to pm pls or start another thread as all this race, ethinicity, nationality, man/women stuff is WAY off topic & you have both managed to fill about 5 pages over night.

Thanks and sorry Boo.

And btw: thanks Britmaverick and Thaibebop!

You are welcome! I like this color, it is Prince Purple!

I am curious as to why the women would put up with this. This is their country and they have rights that their husbands do not have.

Well there is the cultural aspect of mistress and such historically being more accepted in the East than in the Victorian culturally based West. So you might be assigning Western Victorian cultural standards on Eastern women.

But I think there is also a shifting tide at work with women as well. There is a thread here on TV that is focused on the Mia Noi's and the man having them followed to check into their activities. But I can say that I know a couple of Thai ladies (one married to a western man, and one married to a Thai) that have things on the side as well. Certainly more prevalent for men then women; at least for now - but times they are a changing.

Seems everyone might need a wank every now and again.

You know "that look" women get when they want sex? Me neither. - Steve Martin

Having sex is like playing bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand. - Woody Allen

Edit to add above quotes

Edited August 10, 200619 yr by TokyoT

I have never even been to England yet,

Ho hum....

ho hum - I've lived in 2 different countries for a total period of 6 years, with a large number of English expats; I participated in an academic project in Asia with students from an English university in which our teams were mixed between the American and English university; I have very close English friends who are female; I've dated in total 5 English men, and, I participate on this forum for what - almost 2 years - interacting with a large group of English males, in addition to watching BBC daily.

I do want to go to England soon, but that is not totally necessary for me to discern general attitudes and traits of English people, and in particular, English men.

'general attitudes and traits of English people, and in particular, English men.'

Here lies my point, Kat. How on Earth can you generalise when talking about English men or women!

We're a hugely diverse bunch. On any given English street, three next door neighbours may well have completely different attitudes and traits.

Without wishing to frivolize your arguement, it's a bit like me saying that because you are a Latin American female you must have the same general attitudes and traits as Jennifer Lopez.

OK, here we go, the overgeneralized, generalizing statement

Just give it up while you're ahead please. That is like saying there are no cultural or political differences between people. I find this especially rich, since generalized, offensive comments about Americans are a regular on the BBC and by Brits.

And as a matter of fact, there are cultural similarities between Jenifer Lopez and me, because her parents are from Puerto-Rico and emigrated to the Bronx, same as my father.

So yes, we are different individuals, shaped by the same culture, and very similar demographics.

But, yes, different people; can you manage that

edit: It's like 3rd - 5th grade math: recognizing like elements in a set. Generalizations and hypothesis are also part of every scientific inquiry ever made.

Edited August 10, 200619 yr by kat

OK, here we go, the overgeneralized, generalizing statement

Just give it up while you're ahead please. That is like saying there are no cultural or political differences between people. I find this especially rich, since generalized, offensive comments about Americans are a regular on the BBC and by Brits.

You really are not getting this at all Kat. (hey look I can do the patronising roll eyes gif too!)

Somchai Jones is making a statement that he thinks you are overgeneralising. You in reply say you find that 'rich' because Brits do it against the Americans all the time.

Typically you lumped him in with Brits that you have watched on television making jokes about Americans. Typically you took his nationality and used your stereotypical view of the British to use as a weapon to wield against him in the discussion.

You're not looking for discussion, you're looking to point fingers and shout your opinions at others.

Perhaps you could forget about peoples nationalities, sex, or skin colour when having a discussion with them, it would do you the world of good and you might actually learn how to hold one.

I'm going to ignore you after this, because you are incredibly condescending, especially on an issue that you obviously know nothing about.

First of all, I'm not shouting anyone down, I was trying to have a discussion unitl you started following me around to harrass and harangue the same meaningless and reactionary point.

We all are human beings, and we all have identites: male, female, old, young, middle-aged, white, black, latin, arab, American, English, Scottish, Thai, French. It's a beautiful, colorful, diverse world.

If you don't see it, or in your case, pretend not to see it, then there is much you don't understand about yourself or the world. I understand similarities and differences, because I must, as a minority in a plural society, as EVERY minority everywhere understands it. As a matter of fact, even dominant majorities understand it, such as the English, as is evidenced by the multiple of jokes they have about every culture and country surrounding it (some of which are quite funny, I might add).

I am not responding to you again, because you are really harassing me because you don't like what I'm saying, rather than my actual points. You therefore have to pull out some reactionary, name-calling tripe, and beat it to death over and over again regardless of what I'm saying.

I'm tired of you and am now putting you on ignore.

"... Here lies my point, Kat. How on Earth can you generalise when talking about English men or women ... "

Because there are general traits about specific nationalities. There are people within those nationalities who are totally different too. Uhm, I did say GENERAL, didn't I? As far as I know, that means I WAS making a GENERAL statement while fully aware of the matter.

I'm sure every English person isn't the same, because I like some and hate others. I also like some Puerto-Ricans and hate others. However, because I have a shared heritage with them, I share many of the same cultural traits, which other Puerto-Ricans would expect in advance without having to ask, and vice versa. It's called CULTURE, and guess what guys - I didn't make it up!

That's all I'm going to say on the matter, because frankly, I'm sick of beating a dead horse.