Ensure 'fair probe' for suspects, says Thein Sein

[Number 3]

Try reading the previous post in this series again where I stated that the condom is irrelevant to it all. Forget about the condom and sperm inside or outside of it and look at what one of the Burmese said. That is the pertinent part of my point!!!

In short, he basically said that they raped her!

Who is the confused party?? ( quote )

I am not denying the possibility that the 2 Burmese may have ( or not ) raped the victim.

Still, i am not aware of them being interviewed by the press... It seems they speak very little Thai, they had no lawyer when they confessed, according to the police...And they had a " translator " who , according to their lawyer, was hitting them in the face.... Then you come out with nonsense about sperm in the condom..

Methinks things are confused enough without you adding your fantasies.

Let me simplify it for you:

"they said they hadnt used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge"

Got it now?

The only thing that is really clear is that they had no legal representation....a translator who may or may not like those of Burmese origin and happens to be a banana pancake flipper.....amid rumours of beatings and torture.

Anything they have signed in Thai under these conditions isn't worth the paper its written on.....and it looks like they might have better legal representation than the police first imagined.

No wonder the prosecutor keeps tossing the case back to the police!

The prosecutor requested some changes and a shorter report.

Please do not think speculate for a minute that he is the saviour here.

Prosecutors are "selected" by police that they know have their back. Just as certain judges are also "selected" especially in these small type of communities where the mafia require certain results.

Is it possible the prosecutor was sitting back not hearing anything to so with this case at all and a random file ends up on his desk one day? Prosecutors and judges assist in keeping the flow.

Fact is this guys pretty damn nervous now with all the attention this has and is stalling. I would think the BIB may have been slightly caught off guard with this short pass.

Mere hiccup.

Palm greasing will assist him in coming to his senses no problem.

[BritTim]

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants’ purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge — despite the fact police said their sperm was found on a condom linked to the scene.

To me, this means in their purported confession (now retracted with claims that it was extracted by intimidation) they said they hadn't used a condom, while the police said a condom was used and had DNA on it.

If you accept their confessions (which is detailed in some respects, but missing information in others because the police admit they were too drunk at the time to remember much) then, yes, they are guilty. If the police wrote the confessions (as most of us suspect) then their confessions mean nothing.

[Number 3]

Try reading the previous post in this series again where I stated that the condom is irrelevant to it all. Forget about the condom and sperm inside or outside of it and look at what one of the Burmese said. That is the pertinent part of my point!!!

In short, he basically said that they raped her!

Who is the confused party?? ( quote )

I am not denying the possibility that the 2 Burmese may have ( or not ) raped the victim.

Still, i am not aware of them being interviewed by the press... It seems they speak very little Thai, they had no lawyer when they confessed, according to the police...And they had a " translator " who , according to their lawyer, was hitting them in the face.... Then you come out with nonsense about sperm in the condom..

Methinks things are confused enough without you adding your fantasies.

Let me try and help you on the comprehension front.

"they said they hadnt used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge:

OK now?

No doubt the coppers were not using their OWN words either.

Please.

[smokie36]

Try reading the previous post in this series again where I stated that the condom is irrelevant to it all. Forget about the condom and sperm inside or outside of it and look at what one of the Burmese said. That is the pertinent part of my point!!!

In short, he basically said that they raped her!

Who is the confused party?? ( quote )

I am not denying the possibility that the 2 Burmese may have ( or not ) raped the victim.

Still, i am not aware of them being interviewed by the press... It seems they speak very little Thai, they had no lawyer when they confessed, according to the police...And they had a " translator " who , according to their lawyer, was hitting them in the face.... Then you come out with nonsense about sperm in the condom..

Methinks things are confused enough without you adding your fantasies.

Let me simplify it for you:

"they said they hadnt used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge"

Got it now?

The only thing that is really clear is that they had no legal representation....a translator who may or may not like those of Burmese origin and happens to be a banana pancake flipper.....amid rumours of beatings and torture.

Anything they have signed in Thai under these conditions isn't worth the paper its written on.....and it looks like they might have better legal representation than the police first imagined.

No wonder the prosecutor keeps tossing the case back to the police!

The prosecutor requested some changes and a shorter report.

Please do not think speculate for a minute that he is the saviour here.

Prosecutors are "selected" by police that they know have their back. Just as certain judges are also "selected" especially in these small type of communities where the mafia require certain results.

Is it possible the prosecutor was sitting back not hearing anything to so with this case at all and a random file ends up on his desk one day? Prosecutors and judges assist in keeping the flow.

Fact is this guys pretty damn nervous now with all the attention this has and is stalling. I would think the BIB may have been slightly caught off guard with this short pass.

Mere hiccup.

Palm greasing will assist him in coming to his senses no problem.

That's one of the few things I have my doubts about in this matter. Police is one thing....the court system quite another.

[NeverSure]

I don't know what everyone is wagging on about. This investigation has been very transparent.

I can see right through it.

[SICHONSTEVE]

..............................dumber and dumber!!!!!!

[McQwaid]

Fair comments throughout, apart from one thing. They seemed to be able to communicate perfectly well when they accidentally compromised themselves.

They seemed to be berating the police for accusing them of having found their DNA on the outside of the condom by saying that it couldn't be so as they didn't use condoms when they raped her (violated is the word that thy used to be specific). How could this get lost in translation??

The police have cocked up throughout but that doesn't mean that they didn't rape her (even if they made everything up and lied about the whole thing). They raped her and there is no getting away from that fact - as to whether they committed the murders that is still up for discussion but they must be the prime suspects for that.

Are you making that up or do you have a source ?

I've been reading all the stuff, and i can't remember that detailed confession.

My thoughts are the same. I haven't read anything about the 2 Burma guys saying that they raped her but not with a condom. Sichonsteve's comments are the first I heard of this? Anyone else wanna chime in on this?

[Number 3]

Try reading the previous post in this series again where I stated that the condom is irrelevant to it all. Forget about the condom and sperm inside or outside of it and look at what one of the Burmese said. That is the pertinent part of my point!!!

In short, he basically said that they raped her!

Who is the confused party?? ( quote )

I am not denying the possibility that the 2 Burmese may have ( or not ) raped the victim.

Still, i am not aware of them being interviewed by the press... It seems they speak very little Thai, they had no lawyer when they confessed, according to the police...And they had a " translator " who , according to their lawyer, was hitting them in the face.... Then you come out with nonsense about sperm in the condom..

Methinks things are confused enough without you adding your fantasies.

Let me simplify it for you:

"they said they hadnt used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge"

Got it now?

The only thing that is really clear is that they had no legal representation....a translator who may or may not like those of Burmese origin and happens to be a banana pancake flipper.....amid rumours of beatings and torture.

Anything they have signed in Thai under these conditions isn't worth the paper its written on.....and it looks like they might have better legal representation than the police first imagined.

No wonder the prosecutor keeps tossing the case back to the police!

The prosecutor requested some changes and a shorter report.

Please do not think speculate for a minute that he is the saviour here.

Prosecutors are "selected" by police that they know have their back. Just as certain judges are also "selected" especially in these small type of communities where the mafia require certain results.

Is it possible the prosecutor was sitting back not hearing anything to so with this case at all and a random file ends up on his desk one day? Prosecutors and judges assist in keeping the flow.

Fact is this guys pretty damn nervous now with all the attention this has and is stalling. I would think the BIB may have been slightly caught off guard with this short pass.

Mere hiccup.

Palm greasing will assist him in coming to his senses no problem.

That's one of the few things I have my doubts about in this matter. Police is one thing....the court system quite another.

Merely a functioning chain of command.

Mafia, Government / Army, BIB then public prosecutor and judge. You can start anywhere in this chain of command and move down it for the result that you require. If you don't know the result or can't be all that assed about it if it's a case that won't pay the coppers a whole lot of cash they ll simply lose the file rather than go through with something that they won't win. In a high profile case like this it will not be left to chance. No siree.

All the right People are in place quite early on in this process.

[joecoolfrog]

I cant help but feel we are all getting a little sidetracked here , justice needs to be seen to be done.If the Burmese are found to be guilty then well and good, but the trial must also show that they acted independently of others.To gain trust and encourage tourists to return any possibility of a cover up must be proven false , facesaving alone wont wash this time.

[keystonecoppers2]

They said they didn`t use a condom. Try picture this 2 guys, drinking some beers (early on in the evening) and maybe a few more later on (after their friend left to visit his g.friend).

Ok, intoxicated a bit, taking out a tall guy, drag him down to the water, back again(whatever for?). One use the condom and then give to his mate, fumbling a bit (Damn beer!),

go on with the charade whilst they can be seen a at any second by anyone going for a night stroll on the beach. They go home, sleep and wake up, act normal, according to their friend.

And the cig.butt don`t mean a thing, could have been there for many hours before, remember they used to sit and play and sing at this beautiful beach many times.

So did apparently others(Hello Sean!) as well!

I have more on the DNA, coming up.

[JLCrab]

For all the talk on here of DNA, CCTV video, telephones, etc. this could be a case that will largely turn on circumstantial evidence.

They were on the beach that night therefore they are guilty?

Really its up to the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they are guilty.

I'm not seeing that level of evidence myself.

You said that; I didn't.

[ATF]

It's extremely unlikely the Burmese used condoms. Firstly they would be too expensive. Secondly they would be dumber than dumb regarding DNA and other evidence.

Someone killed the guy raped the girl using a condom and then killed her but why go to the trouble of using a condom and then discard it near the crime scene it just doesn't make sense.

[Fatty123]

It's extremely unlikely the Burmese used condoms. Firstly they would be too expensive. Secondly they would be dumber than dumb regarding DNA and other evidence.

Someone killed the guy raped the girl using a condom and then killed her but why go to the trouble of using a condom and then discard it near the crime scene it just doesn't make sense.

A lot doesn't make sense. I suspect the time and place had a bearing. Ko Tao is known as a 'party' Island.

Personally, I can't see two 5ft 2'' skinny blokes getting the better of the victims alone. My view is that they were set on by a pack of wild animals (I mean people of course, but you get my drift), fueled by alcohol and possibly drugs. Perhaps the two accused are protecting others who were there. Perhaps they weren't even there?

I have no idea, but I'm not sure those two tiny chaps could've easily got the better of the two victims. Not on their own, anyway.

My point is that if one (or more) perps were off their heads or steaming drunk, they could easily have left evidence at the crime scene without realising.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Fatty123

[ATF]

It's extremely unlikely the Burmese used condoms. Firstly they would be too expensive. Secondly they would be dumber than dumb regarding DNA and other evidence.

Someone killed the guy raped the girl using a condom and then killed her but why go to the trouble of using a condom and then discard it near the crime scene it just doesn't make sense.

A lot doesn't make sense. I suspect the time and place had a bearing. Ko Tao is known as a 'party' Island.

Personally, I can't see two 5ft 2'' skinny blokes getting the better of the victims alone. My view is that they were set on by a pack of wild animals (I mean people of course, but you get my drift), fueled by alcohol and possibly drugs. Perhaps the two accused are protecting others who were there. Perhaps they weren't even there?

I have no idea, but I'm not sure those two tiny chaps could've easily got the better of the two victims. Not on their own, anyway.

My point is that if one (or more) perps were off their heads or steaming drunk, they could easily have left evidence at the crime scene without realising.

I agree with you.

It's commonplace in Thailand and some other Countries to pay someone to go to jail for you.

Your theory of multiple attackers makes a lot of sense.

[greenchair]

In my observation and personal opinion. Every picture i look at of the boys re-enacting the scene, had at least one or two officials hand on the shoulder, back or arm. Whenever anybody was near (press, public) the police stood over the boys and held them very closely. The boys and burmese witnesses are watched closely at all times. Even when they go to court, they will be closely monitored. The boys know, when the lawyer goes home,embassy go back to the office, and while waiting for the court decision, they are in the cells with police and people who Will do anything for easier time. The witnesses are not being protected from harm. They are being protected from any impartial official from speaking to them alone. They also at the end of the day are left with the police and may commit suicide at anytime under the pressure.

[greenchair]

It's extremely unlikely the Burmese used condoms. Firstly they would be too expensive. Secondly they would be dumber than dumb regarding DNA and other evidence.

Someone killed the guy raped the girl using a condom and then killed her but why go to the trouble of using a condom and then discard it near the crime scene it just doesn't make sense.

The canadian girls who suspect they were date drugged/raped by Sean and his thai mates. Said one condom was left behind also. Some people have a conflict when committing this type of crime. They feel guilty and part of them want to be caught. Or some like to tease officials, by leaving a little bit of catch me if you can evidence. Such as a used condom with no sperm and writing encrypted messages that show neither guilt nor innocence. SEAN.

[joedot]

Here is why the police did torture them. There was a Thai taxi driver in Koh Tao that said the police offered him a bribe to be a witness. When he refused he said the police beat him. No Thai living in Koh Samui would dare make this up. First he could be killed by the local mafia, and second he would face punishment according to Thai law for libel. He would have to be insane to make that up. Second, there have been at least a half dozen other Burmese who have come forward and said they were beaten and tortured. Andrew Drummond even had pics on his website of marks on some of these victims. A bunch of people unrelated to each other would not make this stuff up. Due to the number of people reporting this behavior by police one has to conclude that where there is smoke there is fire.

[greenchair]

The burmese may actually guilty for some part. But absolutely they were not alone.

If they are fully innocent why does the lawyer not send their DNA to England, with a special request for a fast analysis and reply.

The english forensics would have preserved every tiny piece of evidence. Then if cleared the confession would mean nothing.

[Robby nz]

Try reading the previous post in this series again where I stated that the condom is irrelevant to it all. Forget about the condom and sperm inside or outside of it and look at what one of the Burmese said. That is the pertinent part of my point!!!

In short, he basically said that they raped her!

Who is the confused party?? ( quote )

I am not denying the possibility that the 2 Burmese may have ( or not ) raped the victim.

Still, i am not aware of them being interviewed by the press... It seems they speak very little Thai, they had no lawyer when they confessed, according to the police...And they had a " translator " who , according to their lawyer, was hitting them in the face.... Then you come out with nonsense about sperm in the condom..

Methinks things are confused enough without you adding your fantasies.

Let me try and help you on the comprehension front.

"they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge:

OK now?

They said to who ?

You are quoting an overseas paper which you say has all the facts.

You have no idea what they said or did not say, you are only taking one statement from a remote source and condemning them on that statement which is not a statement from them to that paper or anyone else that you know of and certainly not to you.

[hawker9000]

'Wish the U.S. prez had the same eggs the president of Myanmar seems to! How long has SGT Andrew Tahmooressi been rotting in a Mexican jail now? ...just for taking a wrong turn at the border crossing?

[phuketandsee]

A Boycott KT FB page has been set up:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Koh-Tao-until-justice-for-David-and-Hannah-is-done/515148018620672

[gemguy]

@SICHONSTEVE - While at times you actually do make some relevant statements and fact, you seem to have a serious "obsession" in regards to the two suspects NOT being tortured. So, with that in mind, I'm assuming you completely missed the article in the BP a few days back in regards to them being "tortured" into a confession,

I guess you totally missed the article about the representative of the Myanmar Embassy who went to talk to the two suspects, and afterwards openly stated comments concerning the serious bruising on BOTH of their bodies that he observed during his interview with them? Did you, by chance, miss that article????

I know that this was said - but nothing to substantiate it and until they can provide evidence of the alleged torture we should all assume that it didn't happen.

Here in Thailand it happens ...commonly in the hands of the police.

[phuketandsee]

Newspaper that shall not be named reporting this morning that police say recanting of confession was just a "rumor" and that "suspects" are maintaining their guilt and "repented their crime"

[Number 3]

A Boycott KT FB page has been set up:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Koh-Tao-until-justice-for-David-and-Hannah-is-done/515148018620672

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Koh-Tao-until-justice-for-David-and-Hannah-is-done/515148018620672

Good stuff. Now to vote no to serial murder tape mugging and attacks and no to island justice.

Please send this link to all friend with young people as they seem the least deterred right now. No more KT!

[Number 3]

Newspaper that shall not be named reporting this morning that police say recanting of confession was just a "rumor" and that "suspects" are maintaining their guilt and "repented their crime"

Sets the stage for two upcoming suicides.

One cannot suicide if one has not executed any crime ?

[gemguy]

Fair comments throughout, apart from one thing. They seemed to be able to communicate perfectly well when they accidentally compromised themselves.

They seemed to be berating the police for accusing them of having found their DNA on the outside of the condom by saying that it couldn't be so as they didn't use condoms when they raped her (violated is the word that thy used to be specific). How could this get lost in translation??

The police have cocked up throughout but that doesn't mean that they didn't rape her (even if they made everything up and lied about the whole thing). They raped her and there is no getting away from that fact - as to whether they committed the murders that is still up for discussion but they must be the prime suspects for that.

Are you making that up or do you have a source ?

I've been reading all the stuff, and i can't remember that detailed confession.

Fortunately, I did.

The quote is as follows:

“A case of two murdered people certainly needs a forensic physician,” the head of Thailand’s forensic science institute said, according to the Guardian. Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants’ purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge — despite the fact police said their sperm was found on a condom linked to the scene.

As to the source, I think the Washington Post is a fairly reputable newspaper!

Check out the article by Terrence McCoy in the WP edition on October 10th.

I would surmise the condom was there and about to be used by the British lad ...as in safe sex...and that condom was remaining there at the scene of the crime.

One of the preps could have picked it up and then discarded it nearby.

[McQwaid]

What?!!

We have 2 Canadian girls that say they were date drugged/raped by Sean and his Thai mates? !!!

Please, can someone chime in on this and elaborate?

It's extremely unlikely the Burmese used condoms. Firstly they would be too expensive. Secondly they would be dumber than dumb regarding DNA and other evidence.

Someone killed the guy raped the girl using a condom and then killed her but why go to the trouble of using a condom and then discard it near the crime scene it just doesn't make sense.

The canadian girls who suspect they were date drugged/raped by Sean and his thai mates. Said one condom was left behind also. Some people have a conflict when committing this type of crime. They feel guilty and part of them want to be caught. Or some like to tease officials, by leaving a little bit of catch me if you can evidence. Such as a used condom with no sperm and writing encrypted messages that show neither guilt nor innocence. SEAN.

[Robby nz]

Newspaper that shall not be named reporting this morning that police say recanting of confession was just a "rumor" and that "suspects" are maintaining their guilt and "repented their crime"

Sets the stage for two upcoming suicides.

One cannot suicide if one has not executed any crime ?

Now that's a strange statement or question, whatever.

So all those who have committed suicide in the past have all committed crimes. Or do you have another explanation ?

[NeverSure]

For all the talk on here of DNA, CCTV video, telephones, etc. this could be a case that will largely turn on circumstantial evidence.

Right. And as you obviously know, all of the above including DNA are circumstantial evidence.

I just want that DNA independently verified. The phone issue has been a circus, CCTV doesn't prove them the killers or rapists. The only circumstantial evidence that could nail them would be DNA.

[lannarebirth]

What?!!

We have 2 Canadian girls that say they were date drugged/raped by Sean and his Thai mates? !!!

Please, can someone chime in on this and elaborate?

It's extremely unlikely the Burmese used condoms. Firstly they would be too expensive. Secondly they would be dumber than dumb regarding DNA and other evidence.

Someone killed the guy raped the girl using a condom and then killed her but why go to the trouble of using a condom and then discard it near the crime scene it just doesn't make sense.

The canadian girls who suspect they were date drugged/raped by Sean and his thai mates. Said one condom was left behind also. Some people have a conflict when committing this type of crime. They feel guilty and part of them want to be caught. Or some like to tease officials, by leaving a little bit of catch me if you can evidence. Such as a used condom with no sperm and writing encrypted messages that show neither guilt nor innocence. SEAN.

FWIW: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/766476-koh-tao-murders-police-chief-reconfirms-myanmar-migrant-workers-are-real-suspects/page-16#entry8513626