Sex Tourism

[mittheimp]

As a matter of fact I love living here and don't want to leave, BUT, if it got on my nerves that much I WOULD seek greener pastures. I keep a low profile and unlike others here on this board I don't even consider discussing politics or complain about the Thai culture. I'm a guest here and behave myself as such. We have a lot of Pattaya bashers and other bashers who are powerless to change anything and all they are accomplishing is creating hard feelings. It disgusts me what some farangs say about Thaksin when they know nothing and have no right to say anything. I was never in the love it or leave it camp BUT I have more in common with that group than with the basher group. If you live here you do NOT have the right to express all your opinions.

So expats living in a foreign country have no right to criticise the government - Do I have a right to criticise Thaksin if I live in London? If I was living in Burma would I be allowed an opinion on the military junta in charge (ethically i mean - i know i wouldnt officially!!) - or is this not my business too? Does this 'no right' extend to the foreign media?

[Thaipwriter]

Jringo writes in another thread:

"We have been hired by TAT to build a tsunami wall around the perimeter of

Samui. It will be 4 meters wide at the base and 6 meters high, solid concrete.

We will build it at the mean high tide line around the entire island.

Every 200 meters there will be a ladder to go up and a ladder to go down on the other side to the water.

The TAT has high hopes that this will calm the fears of tourists and be a tourist draw in itself.

You will be able to walk along the top and shop at the little souvenir kiosks up there.

They plan to call it: THE GREAT WALL OF SAMUI

The ladders will be a bit of a nuisance at first, but they are only temporary.

Phase II will involve the monumental task of raising the entire island 6 meters.

When we are done the island will be a man made mesa. We will accomplish this by blasting and dredging up any coral reefs we can find to use for backfill and at the same time, blast and bulldoze the hills down level. The plan is to build the entire island up to the top of the tsunami wall.

Phase III (2006) will be when the Japanese investors come in and build the worlds largest golf course, 180 holes. Followed by phase IV (2007) when Hong Kong investors build you a nice 12 story hotel and casino.

There is even talk of an Asian Disneyland"

See more at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...27695&st=15

Troll.

[sbk]

As a matter of fact I love living here and don't want to leave, BUT, if it got on my nerves that much I WOULD seek greener pastures. I keep a low profile and unlike others here on this board I don't even consider discussing politics or complain about the Thai culture. I'm a guest here and behave myself as such. We have a lot of Pattaya bashers and other bashers who are powerless to change anything and all they are accomplishing is creating hard feelings. It disgusts me what some farangs say about Thaksin when they know nothing and have no right to say anything. I was never in the love it or leave it camp BUT I have more in common with that group than with the basher group. If you live here you do NOT have the right to express all your opinions.

Really?? That is an amazing attitude to me, coming from a country that everyone and his brother feels they have the right to bash when they don't even live there, don't even know what they are talking about. To then hear from someone that I don't have the right to express an opinion after living here for so many years, is just, well, shocking. I'll be sure to let my Thai husband know what you think. Somehow, I suspect he would disagree with you. But then, being Thai from Thailand, what would he know?

Anyway, this topic is not about what some farang think other farang opinions should be or shouldn't be but rather, in reality, a discussion of farang roles in the prostitution industry in this country.

[Stephen Cleary]

There are many a decent-hearted bar-girl but at the end of the day......none of them are forced into prostitution!

Maybe you should read this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=76574

I was talking about bar-girls and the likes of Pattaya.

Under-age prostitutes (usually hill-tribes) are often sold into the flesh-trade/brothels by the parents. These are a completely different kettle of fish to the girls who head on the first bus from the north-east looking for a job in a bar.

[sbk]

Jringo writes in another thread:

"We have been hired by TAT to build a tsunami wall around the perimeter of

Samui. It will be 4 meters wide at the base and 6 meters high, solid concrete.

We will build it at the mean high tide line around the entire island.

Every 200 meters there will be a ladder to go up and a ladder to go down on the other side to the water.

The TAT has high hopes that this will calm the fears of tourists and be a tourist draw in itself.

You will be able to walk along the top and shop at the little souvenir kiosks up there.

They plan to call it: THE GREAT WALL OF SAMUI

The ladders will be a bit of a nuisance at first, but they are only temporary.

Phase II will involve the monumental task of raising the entire island 6 meters.

When we are done the island will be a man made mesa. We will accomplish this by blasting and dredging up any coral reefs we can find to use for backfill and at the same time, blast and bulldoze the hills down level. The plan is to build the entire island up to the top of the tsunami wall.

Phase III (2006) will be when the Japanese investors come in and build the worlds largest golf course, 180 holes. Followed by phase IV (2007) when Hong Kong investors build you a nice 12 story hotel and casino.

There is even talk of an Asian Disneyland"

See more at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...27695&st=15

Troll.

Probably, but still an interesting topic, that, if it doesn't get reduced to flaming, name calling and abuse but can be discussed in a civil manner, is a very interesting and topical discussion.

[JRingo]

Jringo writes in another thread:

"We have been hired by TAT to build a tsunami wall around the perimeter of

Samui. It will be 4 meters wide at the base and 6 meters high, solid concrete.

We will build it at the mean high tide line around the entire island.

Every 200 meters there will be a ladder to go up and a ladder to go down on the other side to the water.

The TAT has high hopes that this will calm the fears of tourists and be a tourist draw in itself.

You will be able to walk along the top and shop at the little souvenir kiosks up there.

They plan to call it: THE GREAT WALL OF SAMUI

The ladders will be a bit of a nuisance at first, but they are only temporary.

Phase II will involve the monumental task of raising the entire island 6 meters.

When we are done the island will be a man made mesa. We will accomplish this by blasting and dredging up any coral reefs we can find to use for backfill and at the same time, blast and bulldoze the hills down level. The plan is to build the entire island up to the top of the tsunami wall.

Phase III (2006) will be when the Japanese investors come in and build the worlds largest golf course, 180 holes. Followed by phase IV (2007) when Hong Kong investors build you a nice 12 story hotel and casino.

There is even talk of an Asian Disneyland"

See more at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...27695&st=15

Troll.

Probably, but still an interesting topic, that, if it doesn't get reduced to flaming, name calling and abuse but can be discussed in a civil manner, is a very interesting and topical discussion.

Call it a troll if you like, but I call it witty sarcasm, in response to a rude poster in Samui.

[Gary A]

Anyway, this topic is not about what some farang think other farang opinions should be or shouldn't be but rather, in reality, a discussion of farang roles in the prostitution industry in this country.

I happen to be a US citizen and you are correct. NO one has the right to criticize my country unless they are also a US citizen. Anyways what does a wall around Samui have to do with farangs and prostitutes?

[mittheimp]

Jringo writes in another thread:

"We have been hired by TAT to build a tsunami wall around the perimeter of

Samui. It will be 4 meters wide at the base and 6 meters high, solid concrete.

We will build it at the mean high tide line around the entire island.

Every 200 meters there will be a ladder to go up and a ladder to go down on the other side to the water.

The TAT has high hopes that this will calm the fears of tourists and be a tourist draw in itself.

You will be able to walk along the top and shop at the little souvenir kiosks up there.

They plan to call it: THE GREAT WALL OF SAMUI

The ladders will be a bit of a nuisance at first, but they are only temporary.

Phase II will involve the monumental task of raising the entire island 6 meters.

When we are done the island will be a man made mesa. We will accomplish this by blasting and dredging up any coral reefs we can find to use for backfill and at the same time, blast and bulldoze the hills down level. The plan is to build the entire island up to the top of the tsunami wall.

Phase III (2006) will be when the Japanese investors come in and build the worlds largest golf course, 180 holes. Followed by phase IV (2007) when Hong Kong investors build you a nice 12 story hotel and casino.

There is even talk of an Asian Disneyland"

See more at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...27695&st=15

Troll.

Probably, but still an interesting topic, that, if it doesn't get reduced to flaming, name calling and abuse but can be discussed in a civil manner, is a very interesting and topical discussion.

Call it a troll if you like, but I call it witty sarcasm, in response to a rude poster in Samui.

sarcasm - i agree with you - clearly not a troll!! Witty, well thats a matter of opinion!

[mittheimp]

Anyway, this topic is not about what some farang think other farang opinions should be or shouldn't be but rather, in reality, a discussion of farang roles in the prostitution industry in this country.

I happen to be a US citizen and you are correct. NO one has the right to criticize my country unless they are also a US citizen. Anyways what does a wall around Samui have to do with farangs and prostitutes?

I trust you are joking????

But if not are you really suggesting citizens of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Grenada, Chile, Guatamala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Angola, etc etc etc etc have no right to comment on the USA despite the policies having a direct impact on these countries in a predominantly negative way!!!

[tourleadersi]

Anyway, this topic is not about what some farang think other farang opinions should be or shouldn't be but rather, in reality, a discussion of farang roles in the prostitution industry in this country.

I happen to be a US citizen and you are correct. NO one has the right to criticize my country unless they are also a US citizen. Anyways what does a wall around Samui have to do with farangs and prostitutes?

Can't agree with you there I'm afraid. We all have the right to criticise just as much as we have the right to applaud. To say that only nationals of a country can criticise it sets a very dangerous, isolationist scene. Your country, the USA is currently the most powerful nation on the planet, and makes decisions that affect countries all over the world. To deny these countries the right to criticise their 'bigger brothers' actions is a dangerous thing. There is the danger that they will feel powerless, that their lives are being controlled by a power that they cannot choose or influence.

We all have a right to our opinions, to openly criticise or congratulate freely. It is called freedom of speech.

[baboon]

Great wind-up Gary A!

[mittheimp]

Great wind-up Gary A!

I presume it is a wind up!! But some people actually think like this!!

[alexth]

Anyway, this topic is not about what some farang think other farang opinions should be or shouldn't be but rather, in reality, a discussion of farang roles in the prostitution industry in this country.

I happen to be a US citizen and you are correct. NO one has the right to criticize my country unless they are also a US citizen. Anyways what does a wall around Samui have to do with farangs and prostitutes?

Can't agree with you there I'm afraid. We all have the right to criticise just as much as we have the right to applaud. To say that only nationals of a country can criticise it sets a very dangerous, isolationist scene. Your country, the USA is currently the most powerful nation on the planet, and makes decisions that affect countries all over the world. To deny these countries the right to criticise their 'bigger brothers' actions is a dangerous thing. There is the danger that they will feel powerless, that their lives are being controlled by a power that they cannot choose or influence.

We all have a right to our opinions, to openly criticise or congratulate freely. It is called freedom of speech.

If I'd be jew, would I be allowed to criticise Hitler? If I'd be an iraqian, would I be allowed to criticise USA? I have a feeling you don't feel quite well today, Gary. That one there, was at least a communist remark

[Gary A]

Actually it was just in humor and really meant as a little dig for SBK. Most topics go off topic eventually and as long as it is an intersting discussion it doesn't bother me. I liked the post about Samui. I thought it was quite witty.

[tourleadersi]

Actually it was just in humor and really meant as a little dig for SBK. Most topics go off topic eventually and as long as it is an intersting discussion it doesn't bother me. I liked the post about Samui. I thought it was quite witty.

Phew that was a relief, for a minute there I thought you were serious. I'm still lousy at spotting a wind up when it is slapping me about the face. I do have to say though there are a few of your countrymen who feel that way, mind you I'm a Brit so can hardly talk.

Compliments on a baited hook well dangled, I just need to get some pliers so I can remove it from my lip now.

[JRingo]

Actually it was just in humor and really meant as a little dig for SBK. Most topics go off topic eventually and as long as it is an intersting discussion it doesn't bother me. I liked the post about Samui. I thought it was quite witty.

Gary, I think the post about Samui, which I wrote a year ago on another forum was just an attempt to discredit me and this thread as simply being a troll.

I don't think anyone bought that idea though.

I am glad you found it witty though

[JacknDanny]

I do not have a problem with this posting or related topics. What confuses me, is that in the past as soon as anyone mentions Bargirl or Sex or any related matter the post is immediately closed and people are directed to Bargirls.com!!!

Is there a change in policy here?

[alexth]

Actually it was just in humor and really meant as a little dig for SBK. Most topics go off topic eventually and as long as it is an intersting discussion it doesn't bother me. I liked the post about Samui. I thought it was quite witty.

Phew that was a relief, for a minute there I thought you were serious. I'm still lousy at spotting a wind up when it is slapping me about the face. I do have to say though there are a few of your countrymen who feel that way, mind you I'm a Brit so can hardly talk.

Compliments on a baited hook well dangled, I just need to get some pliers so I can remove it from my lip now.

Yeah, this stays in the american character, first they get you killed and then they're sending over appologies and donations while acting funny.

[leftcross]

i agree with the OP - bar owners collecting bar fines are simply pimps.

some of the excuses on here are laughable. tell you what, next time talk to a girl all night and then as soon as the pimp shuts the bar tell him you are taking one of his girls home for the night. see if he says it's ok.

these guys are making money off the poorest and most vulnerable members of thai society. how can anyone defend that???

if you want to dabble then you should pay the girl direct so she gets all the cash. give her the money you would have paid for the pimp's fee.

[davethailand]

i agree with the OP - bar owners collecting bar fines are simply pimps.

some of the excuses on here are laughable. tell you what, next time talk to a girl all night and then as soon as the pimp shuts the bar tell him you are taking one of his girls home for the night. see if he says it's ok.

these guys are making money off the poorest and most vulnerable members of thai society. how can anyone defend that???

if you want to dabble then you should pay the girl direct so she gets all the cash. give her the money you would have paid for the pimp's fee.

So you don't mind paying for the girls services you just resent paying the barfine?

[Kerryd]

Then it is perfectly clear that the girls are not in the bars to "work" in the bars but to draw in customers who are looking for someone to have sex with.

They are prostitutes, the bar owner helps hook them up with customers and charges for his service, that makes him a pimp.

Oh my, you'd better sit down for this one. It's going to shock you.

NOT EVERY WOMAN IN THAILAND IS A PROSTITUTE !

In fact, I know quite a few women that are working in beer and go-go bars, that DON'T HAVE SEX FOR MONEY !!

(I know one a-go-go in fact, where 6 of their best looking dancers don't do short/long time sex-for-money).

And, for example, I don't think the staff at the Blues Factory would appreciate being considered hookers. But according to you, they work in a bar, therefore they are prostitutes !

I'm going to call davethailand "Pimp Daddy" the next time I see him, from a safe distance of course

So lets see, if I pay a girl's bar fine, and we go to dinner and a movie, does that make her a hooker ? Does that make the bar owner a pimp ? Hmmm, mamasan Lee won't be happy with me calling her a pimp. Jo will be even angrier at being labelled a hooker. Guess I'd better stop seeing her then. I wouldn't want to be accused of being immoral.

As far as I know, not one girl I have ever spoken to/been with, has ever given the owner/manager of what ever club she was in, a cut of the money she has made for having sex.

(yes, I do actually talk to the girls, even ones I have no intention of doing anything with. Most of them are quite open and honest)

If a bar is compensated for losing an employee's services for a period of time, but gets no money if that employee gets paid for having sex later on, how is the bar a pimp ? Remembering that the bar-fine only allows the girl to leave work without penalty and in no way commits the girl to having sex.

So Keeryd, you say the world is on the brink of a major war so I suppose that makes it okay somehow to condone immorality?

First you were upset about barfines. Now it's about morality ? Or is it that you only find barfines immoral ? But taking a girl away from work in the middle of her shift without compensation to her employer is quite OK ? Especially as you know that girl expects to get paid for sex.

So is that it ? You don't mind prostitution, but you don't like having to pay to get her out of the bar, and then still have to pay her on top of that ?

And yes, I do think there are bigger issues at hand than the morality of a situation that has existed for decades and isn't going to go away because you aren't happy about it.

and for leftcross:

Shock and Surprise for you too ! Many guys wait until after closing to pick up their sweeties. Happens all the time. Some guys are just too cheap to pay the fine. Others like leaving their tee-raks at work, while they check out other bars and clubs. Some have steady girlfriends and can't afford to be paying their barfine every night, so they wait until closing to pick them up.

More surprises ! I haven't heard of a single bar owner that forces his staff to work. And when you think about it, without these bar owners, there'd be oh, about 50,000 poor and vulnerable people out of work, just here in Pattaya !

Hey, that's a great solution ! Shut down the bars and let the "poorest and most vulnerable members of thai society" try to find other jobs ! Wow. That'll solve all the problems of barfines !

Of course, you could just not get involved. By that I mean, stop picking up women in bars. Then you won't be bothered by bar fines. Stick to picking them up at Family Marts, Gas Stations, Fast Food shops, clothing stores and other places that don't expect you to compensate them for walking away with their employees during their shift !

Happy Hunting !

[sbk]

Actually it was just in humor and really meant as a little dig for SBK. Most topics go off topic eventually and as long as it is an intersting discussion it doesn't bother me. I liked the post about Samui. I thought it was quite witty.

Sorry to disoblige Gary

Anyway! (call me the on-topic maniac )

Normally we don't allow the endless bargirls are good/bargirls are bad discussion because inevitably they degenerate into one big mess.

However, it would be nice if we could all be adults here (GARY!) and try to discuss a topic that is more than just about prositutes good or bad but whether or not farangs playing an active role in promoting it are inethical/immoral whatever your choice of word may be.

So, if we can try to discuss this in a rational adult manner that would be nice.

[leftcross]

So you don't mind paying for the girls services you just resent paying the barfine?

i will never pay a pimp to go with a girl.

and kerryd - your arguments are ridiculous. would a bar be unable to operate without bar fines? no.

you make it sound like the girls working in bars are there regaling the customers with fantastic stories or doing musical turns to spellbind the customers into staying. the reality is they are there waiting for someone to take them home so they can earn some money. you are a pimp, simple.

[Thaipwriter]

Could it be, that when push comes to shove, most farangs dont like to see other farangs doing well or making money here in LOS.

Could this be the basis of the OP's complaints?

After all, he has not said anything about The Thai eqivalent of the "farang pimp"

[leftcross]

travelling half the way around the world to pimp out farm girls is hardly 'doing well for yourself' is it???

it's certainly makes money, but then so do drug dealers

[Thaipwriter]

travelling half the way around the world to pimp out farm girls is hardly 'doing well for yourself' is it???

I dont see a shortage of farangs buying bars.

[leftcross]

what's your point?

i didn't say pimps were in short supply

[Thaipwriter]

what's your point?

i didn't say pimps were in short supply

Farangs who share your high moral ground, are in short supply here though.

[wilko]

Don't bar-girls get a part of the bar-fine themselves?

I've had sex for money....so what does that make me....?

Mr Ringo (&co.) have you ever paid for sex? Is that a crime where you come from? Can you be prosecuted for it back home?

[JRingo]

Farangs who share your high moral ground, are in short supply here though.

The argument that bars need to hire pretty girls to attract customers has been

used a few times here.

This is convoluted logic if not total bullcrap. If it were true, then the bar owners

would not let the girls leave at all but stay working and keep the guys in the bar

and spending money as long as possible.

The fact that bar owners “barfine” the girls out is obvious and simple, the girls are

prostitutes and the owners are pimps.

Pimping is a crime in the USA, UK and Australia I believe.

Pimping is a sex crime.

New laws are being enforced that prosecute citizens of these countries who travel

abroad to commit sex crimes.

It won’t be long before NGOs start sending agents around to document the falang

bar owner collecting “barfines” with the intent to hand any evidence over to the

prosecutors back home.

I have heard they are active in Cambodia now, Thailand could be next.