PM calls for joint action over state land encroachment

[Lite Beer]

PM calls for joint action over state land encroachment
The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has ordered six main state agencies to integrate plans on tackling encroachments on state land.

They included the Treasury Department, the Department and Cooperatives Promotion, the Social Development and Welfare Department, the Agricultural Land Reform Office, the Department of Land, and the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment.

Speaking during his weekly broadcast "Returning Happiness to the People" on Friday, Prayut said the agencies should use the same maps and photos to ensure they were all on the same page in this task. The law enforcement should also consider the principles of political science to take care of the affected people, he said, urging that the people should be steered away from violating the law and urged to do proper land registration, which would have information about their origin and land ownership.

If the authorities deemed that the people had no land for vocation or no career, they should then consider how to help them, he said, adding the government would later discuss about land distribution in various formats.

Meanwhile, a military unit under Army Region 2, led by Col Sommai Busaba, yesterday inspected an 800-rai public forest in tambon Han Huai Sai in Nakhon Ratchasima's Prathai district. More than half the area was reportedly encroached by villagers in the past decade for farming. It was reported that some people, whose lands bordered the forest, even had land title deeds that covered the forest soil.

Sommai said he would urge the related agencies to reclaim the 400 rai back from the farmers, while the issue of overlapping land title deeds would be handled by the district office and local bodies by carrying out a land survey. Illegal deeds would be revoked.

Earlier on Friday, Sommai led the team to inspect the 1,900-rai Khoksad Forest in Nong Poung district following villagers' complaints that the forestland had been encroached on. They found the forest area had been turned into residential houses and monastic compounds.

Nong Pluang district chief Suphan Pongsong said a 700-rai nearby plot covered 25 rai of forestland and was covered by a title deed.

Colonel Sommai said he had instructed Nong Puang district and the Land Department to carry out a land survey and mark encroached lands, so that legal action could be taken against the law violators.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/PM-calls-for-joint-action-over-state-land-encroach-30245293.html

-- The Nation 2014-10-12

[NongKhaiKid]

In Nong Pluang District Col. Sommai spoke of legal action being taken against law violators but will that include the VIIPs / Influential people who have built houses or opened resorts on land illegal encroached on or will their property simply be demolished, possibly after a legal battle, and that's an end to it ?

This needs to be sorted out nationwide.

Former DSI Chief Tarit had his illegally built house demolished but so far no suggestion he has been charged with anything.

The law not only needs to be done it has to be seen to be done.

[Robby nz]

As long as they leave the forest people alone who have in many cases lived in the forests for generations before the places were designated national parks.

Treat these people as friends of the forest and nor enemies, employ them in the forest service.

Go after the real forest encroachers with their resorts, large plantations and big houses.

[canopy]

Treat these people as friends of the forest and nor enemies, employ them in the forest service.

I beg to differ. Living among hill tribe people for years it becomes apparent they are the most destructive force to the forest imaginable. Hunting endangered species, cutting down trees, burning areas, clearing land, diverting streams, and taking everything of value for themselves or to sell. And do not forget there are many that deliberately illegally immigrated to these locations themselves and have not been there for generations. And many are still coming.

employ them in the forest service

Talk about having the fox guard the hen house.

Go after the real forest encroachers with their resorts, large plantations and big houses.

Taking out the one rich guy and leaving the 99 poor encroachers isn't going to accomplish anything. You will find encroachment is mainly the small houses, rickety resorts, and small farms all made by the poor. Unlike the rich, these type people have little understanding of the environment and could care less about it. While a rich person may preserve and beautify the environment around them, the poor tend to use lots of poisons, clear cutting, destruction, then burn it all every year. It's plain as day for all to see.

You seem to have an agenda. Instead of solving an important problem you only want to use the law to punish a particular group you seem to dislike.

[bangrak]

Ah, so, soon, at last, we will see, all over the country, a score of 'influential persons', Army and Police top brass, and politicians, land in jail, isn't it? After being evicted from the encroached land, their family's assets seized to cover for the ill gotten profits and reparation, isn't it? Plus the 'local leaders' and land office officials who made the fraud possible kicked out, and really punished, not, eventually, just sent to an inactive post, is it? The odds are we'll first see hens growing teeth and pigs flying... 'The system' will not allow it, 'class justice' will go on, IMO, as nobody has the power, nor the support, to even, seriously, start cleaning up the Augias' stable this country has become! As long as the Thais don't understand by/for themselves they're digging their own grave if they don't consider corruption as a major problem, ...and solve it! The organised lack of a decent education is playing a major role in it... But don't worry dear Thais, the other Asean countries will take advantage of that situation, not to speak of 'big brother' China... Is it 'som-nam-nah' to you, then, proud Thais?

Edited October 12, 2014 by bangrak

[worgeordie]

How do they suddenly find these resorts in national parks AFTER

they have been built,the people in charge of looking after the forests

are just not doing there jobs,or are been paid to turn a blind eye.

Forest encroachment and stealing government land should be treated

much more seriously,and punishments to reflect the crime,NO MATTER

who the encroacher's are,but i think it is OK for local people to enter

the forest areas to collect mushrooms and other forest foods,except

animals.

Regards Worgeordie

[Robby nz]

Treat these people as friends of the forest and nor enemies, employ them in the forest service.

I beg to differ. Living among hill tribe people for years it becomes apparent they are the most destructive force to the forest imaginable. Hunting endangered species, cutting down trees, burning areas, clearing land, diverting streams, and taking everything of value for themselves or to sell. And do not forget there are many that deliberately illegally immigrated to these locations themselves and have not been there for generations. And many are still coming.

employ them in the forest service

Talk about having the fox guard the hen house.

Go after the real forest encroachers with their resorts, large plantations and big houses.

Taking out the one rich guy and leaving the 99 poor encroachers isn't going to accomplish anything. You will find encroachment is mainly the small houses, rickety resorts, and small farms all made by the poor. Unlike the rich, these type people have little understanding of the environment and could care less about it. While a rich person may preserve and beautify the environment around them, the poor tend to use lots of poisons, clear cutting, destruction, then burn it all every year. It's plain as day for all to see.

You seem to have an agenda. Instead of solving an important problem you only want to use the law to punish a particular group you seem to dislike.

You tell us you live among these people and it is their fault the forests are being degraded, so you say.

As you say there is a difference between the recent arrivals and those who have been there for generations.

OK the recent arrivals can be moved out, but I say give those who have been there long term employment in the forest so they have an income and they don't have to live hand to mouth off the forest by hunting and gathering or destructive practices.

The forest service needs employees, why not use those who are there and know the forest ?

Arrange better schooling for the kids, scholarships for the bright kids in forest management, , better health care, better housing.

Wont happen overnight but a much better option than kicking them out to go where, do what ?

You believe the rich are there because the love the environment and wont to preserve it, no mate they are there because those who have started resorts know the environment will bring people and money.

Those who have cleared land for plantations, ditto for money.

And finally you would use the law to punish the poor but the rich are fine because they understand the environment.

You are very right I have an agenda, protecting the forests, the animals and the birds which I have strong affinity for.

[canopy]

Don't misunderstand. I believe any rich encroaching are just as guilty as poor and hill tribes and have no business being there. Apply the law equally no matter how long or short anyone has been there and no matter how rich or poor. However, you are making a grave error in your assessment. In order to solve the problem, all must understand the poor devastate the forests and they will fight hard against anyone getting in their way of pillaging down to the last orchid and pangolin to extinction for their own benefit. And when they are all gone they won't care. A beautiful bird nearby to us or the rich is maybe something worthy to pull out a camera to view and appreciate. The chain smoking, whiskey drinking poor person next door will absolutely pull out a gun, sling shot, or just pick up a stone and throw it. Kids drive around on motorcycles looking for such opportunities for pleasure. You need to understand these people better before you put them in charge of anything. They aren't like the fairy tales you read about. Education as a quick and tidy fix so they all suddenly become caring for the earth, blah blah blah. It sounds so good and pure, but it's hopeless in our generation I am sad to see. I don't want to sound overly negative, but these are the realities we are dealing with. Let me try to send this home:

Neighbor enjoys putting up a "gill net" to catch beautiful birds who suffer a miserable death tangled up injuring themselves trying to escape in vain for days before they die. As far as I have seen, only a poor person would do such a cruel thing. A rich person would more likely put up some bird houses. So before you put them in charge you need to know more about them.

[ramrod711]

urging that the people should be steered away from violating the law and urged to do proper land registration, which would have information about their origin and land ownership.

Law enforcement need to treat everyone the same, I see poor peoples homes being destroyed on television, I read about twenty million baht resorts being found, but oddly I never see them being demolished. Anyone who can prove that they were residents on the land before it became protected should be allowed to stay, or bought out. Anyone who illegally encroached on protected land should be evicted and any buildings demolished, rich or poor.

[northernboy]

Some may well have purchased second hand the land with real authentic title papers but the issuing office had no right to issue it. As mentioned in the article, it seems like perhaps the complex land title system needs revamping. Look how many departments are included in the board with many different maps. Seems like many departments may over lap controls over land registration.

It talks about who was given the land and for what purpose. If it was give to help landless farmers who were suppose to make live in or near the forest or make the granted land financially viable to live off? Then when you get too old to work the farm approved what happens to it? Can you sell your improvements to a younger farmer or just pass it on to a son or daughter who may well have a vocation or a good career?

​Yes national parks are clearly not to build on, but what about the land use titles mentioned indirectly? As long as they a titled by the agriculture Dept or forestry should they not be used with stewardship in mind, disallowing short term soil destroying methods that non full ownership tends to encourage.

As a horticulturist it amazes me the lack of soil conservation practiced on most of these different land title areas, they seem to think it was free land so the government will give me more land when the soil is deteriorated by poor crop rotations or excessive chemical use. There is no long term practices. I see milk produces who use this land for feed crops,and the manure from cattle sheds instead of putting it back on their fields, instead the manure is sold to compost producers to make compost or potting soil for city people.

Maybe instead of worrying about your class wars here on TV we should worry about the best use of the forest lands for Thailand as a whole and the community it is near.. Sure resorts sound bad, As the are for the richer Thai and westerners enjoyment of the Royal Thai forests but the often provide better paying permanent jobs for locals and if well managed are not as environmentally destructive than many land use models, like slash and burn or high chemical use mono-culture farming. Nice to scream the rich are bad or the peasants are bad, people as a whole are bad for the forest, but it is a national resource and needs to be well maintained for all people present and future, because if money is low the locals will source food from the local forest and it is not able to supply all the people who want food form it forever.

Edited October 12, 2014 by northernboy

[robertson468]

How very, very interesting. Town Houses owned by my Wife have shops and restaurants at the back of them, but apparently it should be a public road, which means about 500 meters of houses, shops and business should be flatened and the public road reinstated. She is currently in dispute with the Guy who owns the current right of way to the property as the road is so bad and disrepaired that one can hardly get to the property. So if we raise enough issues with the appropriate authority, to either have the original road re-instated which will upset an awful lot of people, or to put pressure on them to simply adopt the present right of way and repair it. Will keep you posted on developments!!

Edited October 12, 2014 by robertson468

[outsider]

Do tourists still need to run checks and due dilligence to make sure the hotel they booked into isn't enroaching on state land?

[Robby nz]

Don't misunderstand. I believe any rich encroaching are just as guilty as poor and hill tribes and have no business being there. Apply the law equally no matter how long or short anyone has been there and no matter how rich or poor. However, you are making a grave error in your assessment. In order to solve the problem, all must understand the poor devastate the forests and they will fight hard against anyone getting in their way of pillaging down to the last orchid and pangolin to extinction for their own benefit. And when they are all gone they won't care. A beautiful bird nearby to us or the rich is maybe something worthy to pull out a camera to view and appreciate. The chain smoking, whiskey drinking poor person next door will absolutely pull out a gun, sling shot, or just pick up a stone and throw it. Kids drive around on motorcycles looking for such opportunities for pleasure. You need to understand these people better before you put them in charge of anything. They aren't like the fairy tales you read about. Education as a quick and tidy fix so they all suddenly become caring for the earth, blah blah blah. It sounds so good and pure, but it's hopeless in our generation I am sad to see. I don't want to sound overly negative, but these are the realities we are dealing with. Let me try to send this home:

gill net.jpg

Neighbor enjoys putting up a "gill net" to catch beautiful birds who suffer a miserable death tangled up injuring themselves trying to escape in vain for days before they die. As far as I have seen, only a poor person would do such a cruel thing. A rich person would more likely put up some bird houses. So before you put them in charge you need to know more about them.

I know very well what goes on in some places, I do get around some of the national parks and see things, even see the odd mist net where I live, no reason for it, they would be better off in the klong catching fish.

So your answer is just to kick them all out, then what happens to the people who have genuinely lived in the forest for generations ?

They have no land, no money, nowhere to go and in many cases are not even recognized as Thai citizens.

I say it is much better to work with them giving them a living wage so they don't need to hunt, educate, particularly the young, to be guardians of the forest rather than users, get them to use any plots of land they are cultivating as nurseries for forest trees and pay them for the saplings they produce then plant out in the forest.

There are already wildlife sanctuaries with breeding programs for rare birds to be released back into the wild with plenty of scope for more, establish a sanctuary around a village and train the people.

There are many more things that can be done with and for them but most of all give them pride in what they are and where they live, far better than putting them out on the street where many will have little choice than to turn to crime.

[bangrak]

How very, very interesting. Town Houses owned by my Wife have shops and restaurants at the back of them, but apparently it should be a public road, which means about 500 meters of houses, shops and business should be flatened and the public road reinstated. She is currently in dispute with the Guy who owns the current right of way to the property as the road is so bad and disrepaired that one can hardly get to the property. So if we raise enough issues with the appropriate authority, to either have the original road re-instated which will upset an awful lot of people, or to put pressure on them to simply adopt the present right of way and repair it. Will keep you posted on developments!!

Don't forget first to write your will, and to make arrangements for your funeral...

[mango66]

Treat these people as friends of the forest and nor enemies, employ them in the forest service.

I beg to differ. Living among hill tribe people for years it becomes apparent they are the most destructive force to the forest imaginable. Hunting endangered species, cutting down trees, burning areas, clearing land, diverting streams, and taking everything of value for themselves or to sell. And do not forget there are many that deliberately illegally immigrated to these locations themselves and have not been there for generations. And many are still coming.

employ them in the forest service

Talk about having the fox guard the hen house.

Go after the real forest encroachers with their resorts, large plantations and big houses.

Taking out the one rich guy and leaving the 99 poor encroachers isn't going to accomplish anything. You will find encroachment is mainly the small houses, rickety resorts, and small farms all made by the poor. Unlike the rich, these type people have little understanding of the environment and could care less about it. While a rich person may preserve and beautify the environment around them, the poor tend to use lots of poisons, clear cutting, destruction, then burn it all every year. It's plain as day for all to see.

You seem to have an agenda. Instead of solving an important problem you only want to use the law to punish a particular group you seem to dislike.

I like the shore and see very much !!

I go to same place fore more than 10 years !!

So you think the gvt should also grant the related beach and sea also to me !!

[martinhp]

Wvat about office encroachment ????

No matter what illegal office encroaching pebbles are doing its not legal and must be remedied as soon they get out

Get elected or leave that's it

[canopy]

to be guardians of the forest rather than users, get them to use any plots of land they are cultivating as nurseries for forest trees and pay them for the saplings they produce then plant out in the forest

It's an idyllic and noble idea indeed. However, as a case study keep in mind people in these areas have been indoctrinated into Thai schools for generations. Yet they still don't speak Thai among themselves despite the bests efforts of the government. Education hasn't worked. I repeat, education hasn't worked. So some villages in the forests where I am, which are very segregated by the way, they speak Mong and in others Laotion and none Thai. Change is unwanted by the poor and asking them to give up the things all around them for the benefit of the forest they will laugh at as backwards; I can tell you stories. So while you certainly could get your sapling project underway and I would encourage that, you'll then have a constant battle keeping the others from cutting them down, lighting forest fires there, trampling the area with buffalo, or using the land for something else. And the second you leave the chances of them drifting right back to their old ways is going to be very high. Just remember your idea is something you want and they don't want. None of them. Using the worst abusers to save the forests seems ludicrous to me and I fail to see education as a simple fix like applying a software update. So I just don't know why you see so much promise in the poor and despise the rich so much, the latter of which have the very characteristics you seek. I'd say it's better to get everyone out (rich and poor) and diligently enforce forests being left completely alone.