Those who have read my posts woud agree that I am normally rational. But when posters who know nothing about the investigation start on a crusade to defend the indefensible, I get mad. <deleted> mad.

Time will reveal all, truth and justice will prevail and there's nothing this ragtag and bobtail outfit can do to stop it.

I assume you are taking about the amateur detectives online.

No -- maybe the online forensic psychiatrists.

What about the armchair quarterback RTP apologist crowd, who overlook decades of corruption (Thailand is ranked 102/177 in global corruption rankings) and police incompetence.

No his Alibi isn't money. Nor has it been refuted.

Time will reveal all, truth and justice will prevail and there's nothing this ragtag and bobtail outfit can do to stop it.

I assume you are taking about the amateur detectives online.

No -- maybe the online forensic psychiatrists.

What about the armchair quarterback RTP apologist crowd, who overlook decades of corruption (Thailand is ranked 102/177 in global corruption rankings) and police incompetence.

BEST POST EVER !!!

It seems to me that a DNA match does not prove that they killed the victims. It may prove at best that they had sex with them/her. It does not even prove rape and it certainly doesn't prove killing them.

As every criminal lawyer knows, confessions are no evidence, especially not in a case like this.

It seems to me that a DNA match does not prove that they killed the victims. It may prove at best that they had sex with them/her. It does not even prove rape and it certainly doesn't prove killing them.

As every criminal lawyer knows, confessions are no evidence, especially not in a case like this.

Exactly. There is NO evidence to support a murder charge.

No his Alibi isn't money. Nor has it been refuted.

how much u wonna be paid to change ur mind... 20... I wouldn't give u more for that nonsense... sorry for the language... but comes from the heart...

It seems to me that a DNA match does not prove that they killed the victims. It may prove at best that they had sex with them/her. It does not even prove rape and it certainly doesn't prove killing them.

As every criminal lawyer knows, confessions are no evidence, especially not in a case like this.

Agreed.

DNA proves presence. Confessions alone mean nothing. CCTV alone means nothing. Etc

Together it will likely see the 2 Burmese men convicted.

It seems to me that a DNA match does not prove that they killed the victims. It may prove at best that they had sex with them/her. It does not even prove rape and it certainly doesn't prove killing them.

As every criminal lawyer knows, confessions are no evidence, especially not in a case like this.

Agreed.

DNA proves presence. Confessions alone mean nothing. CCTV alone means nothing. Etc

Together it will likely see the 2 Burmese men convicted.

It is a foregone conclusion. Whether they are guilty or innocent, the judge will uphold the prosecutors 'evidence'. Welcome to Thailand.

more like , welcome to Dieland !

https://www.facebook.com/justiceforHannahandDavid

Please like ans share..

Possible to get a few more responses to this??? Where are all the poster's who so much disagree with the "official accounts"??? Show your hands, PLEASE !

It seems to me that a DNA match does not prove that they killed the victims. It may prove at best that they had sex with them/her. It does not even prove rape and it certainly doesn't prove killing them.

As every criminal lawyer knows, confessions are no evidence, especially not in a case like this.

Agreed.

DNA proves presence. Confessions alone mean nothing. CCTV alone means nothing. Etc

Together it will likely see the 2 Burmese men convicted.

It is a foregone conclusion. Whether they are guilty or innocent, the judge will uphold the prosecutors 'evidence'. Welcome to Thailand.

Not true. But don't let a bias bother you.

Time will reveal all, truth and justice will prevail and there's nothing this ragtag and bobtail outfit can do to stop it.

I assume you are taking about the amateur detectives online.

No -- maybe the online forensic psychiatrists.

What about the armchair quarterback RTP apologist crowd, who overlook decades of corruption (Thailand is ranked 102/177 in global corruption rankings) and police incompetence.

I'm outliked, +1

Get the independent (UK) DNA testing done and we're there, either way.

Until then there is no chance of a safe conviction in the eyes of the well . . . most people.

Kingsley Abbott, Bangkok-based adviser for the International Commission of Jurists...adds, the burden of proof rests on the prosecution, as the two men must be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Or as we say back home in Colorado: Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

Can someone tell me if Thailand Criminal code does, in fact, have a tradition of presuming one's innocence until proven guilty?

Thank you

Interesting comment. Up til now my understanding was all foreigners were presumed guilty with no chance of being innocent. Had a buddy of mine brutally beat with a cane pole for walking in a complex that had a no trespassing sign on a gate which was open which he never saw as the gate was open next to his complex. He tried to press charges as he was assaulted and beaten about his head. He asked the cops for medical attention and it was refused. He was told he could go but he wanted to press charges against the homeowner. He had to wait an hour for the tourist police who then told him he could press charges but he would go to jail for five years for trespassing. So much for being innocent. The toursit cops are shills for the real cops who of course are corrupt. It's a smokescreen the tourists don't realize, apparently just like this case. Hell, they probably planted the dna in her vagina after the fact. Wouldn't put it past em. I'm also trying to figure out how you get dna (sperm) on the outside of a condom with no dna on the inside. Buffoons galore methinks here in the Land of Scams.

Then there is the comment from the jailer he is worried they are gonna commit suicide. Is that Thai speak for they are gonna kill them and blame it on suicide? Of course then case closed, right?

Time will reveal all, truth and justice will prevail and there's nothing this ragtag and bobtail outfit can do to stop it.

It won't. You really believe that truth and justice will prevail, sorry it doesn't happen here.

I'm perplexed, why are you there?

Get the independent (UK) DNA testing done and we're there, either way.

Until then there is no chance of a safe conviction in the eyes of the well . . . most people.

"... and we are there..." ??? Yeah yeah, and you still believe you would get any materials which would not have been massively tempered with - out of pure unprofessionalism or intentionally ?

They are not really clever, but they are sure clever enough to NOT hand you over the materials expected for a proper, independent investigation which could come to any conclusive results...

Dreamer...

A post removed for profanity

It seems to me that a DNA match does not prove that they killed the victims. It may prove at best that they had sex with them/her. It does not even prove rape and it certainly doesn't prove killing them.

As every criminal lawyer knows, confessions are no evidence, especially not in a case like this.

Agreed.

DNA proves presence. Confessions alone mean nothing. CCTV alone means nothing. Etc

Together it will likely see the 2 Burmese men convicted.

It is a foregone conclusion. Whether they are guilty or innocent, the judge will uphold the prosecutors 'evidence'. Welcome to Thailand.

Dont be too sure of that, Thailand is going through a huge social awakening, as are those who visit LOS.

The last few years the mask Thailand wears has all but fallen off, political corruption,airport highjacks, coups, Navy human trafficking, commercial slavery, human rights abuses, ongoing terrorism, police corruption and mafia connected to all.

This case involving nationals of other countries cannot be just treated like an internal Thai on Thai inconsequential case. even though they might try I think the pressure will just grow. The pressure as well as domestic is also international and that community have standards.Thailand has of late been under the spotlight for ignoring International standards on many things. it cant keep on ignoring them without consequence forever.

What cannot go on forever simply dosnt, the question is when that change will come. Even Thailands corrupt system cannot buck change forever and when it comes theres likely to be a catalyst that tips it. There usually is.

This case is doing serious damage to the image of the country Internationally both in the tourist industry and security and police force that it relies on, depending on the case progressing the justice and legal system might too get blasted. That wont help at all.

The PM taking the stance he has to defend the farce also means politically his image is being further damaged along with the claim of reducing corruption and reforming the police.. If he were serious he would have jumped all over the RTP on this already and used it as an excuse/ example and cleaned house, by not doing so it has confirmed most International suspicions that its just another coup with the usual goals.

This isnt going to help the return to happiness campaign at all.

It seems to me that a DNA match does not prove that they killed the victims. It may prove at best that they had sex with them/her. It does not even prove rape and it certainly doesn't prove killing them.

As every criminal lawyer knows, confessions are no evidence, especially not in a case like this.

Agreed.

DNA proves presence. Confessions alone mean nothing. CCTV alone means nothing. Etc

Together it will likely see the 2 Burmese men convicted.

It is a foregone conclusion. Whether they are guilty or innocent, the judge will uphold the prosecutors 'evidence'. Welcome to Thailand.

Dont be too sure of that, Thailand is going through a huge social awakening, as are those who visit LOS.

The last few years the mask Thailand wears has all but fallen off, political corruption,airport highjacks, coups, Navy human trafficking, commercial slavery, human rights abuses, ongoing terrorism, police corruption and mafia connected to all.

This case involving nationals of other countries cannot be just treated like an internal Thai on Thai inconsequential case. even though they might try I think the pressure will just grow. The pressure as well as domestic is also international and that community have standards.Thailand has of late been under the spotlight for ignoring International standards on many things. it cant keep on ignoring them without consequence forever.

What cannot go on forever simply dosnt, the question is when that change will come. Even Thailands corrupt system cannot buck change forever and when it comes theres likely to be a catalyst that tips it. There usually is.

This case is doing serious damage to the image of the country Internationally both in the tourist industry and security and police force that it relies on, depending on the case progressing the justice and legal system might too get blasted. That wont help at all.

The PM taking the stance he has to defend the farce also means politically his image is being further damaged along with the claim of reducing corruption and reforming the police.. If he were serious he would have jumped all over the RTP on this already and used it as an excuse/ example and cleaned house, by not doing so it has confirmed most International suspicions that its just another coup with the usual goals.

This isnt going to help the return to happiness campaign at all.

maybe he's just too busy with TV appearances (... yawnnnnnnnn...) to be able to pay attention to those minor details...

ok totally off subject, but to endorse how people do not read posts properly, i have a female friend who had her phone nicked and i asked about getting a s/h phone, now it appears ever reply, i get is calling her "my girfriend" <deleted>

I had to read your post four times to try to understand what you were going on about.

They forgot to mention that there is at least one highly suspect individual who refuses to give a DNA sample (for what reason other than being guilty?) and whom the Thai police continues to overlook

Here we go !! If Mr. Hi -So is not guilty, why is he refusing to provide a DNA sample ? There is just too much in this case turning the fingers back to him.

This fact needs more exposure on Social Media across the world and needs to be looked at VERY SERIOUSLY.

Like sweatalot say, if this coward is not guilty and have nothing to hide why did he and his family refuse to work along with just providing a stupid DNA test..... it cost him nothing..

Instead they Lawyered Up and went through a LOT to provide " crappy " so called evidence which cost them MONEY in Lawyers fees.... and who knows..

They should simply get a court order for him to provide a DNA sample..... simple as that.

Meantime everybody's wasting valuable time, while in fact the answer is right under their noses. Nothing to Loose.

They forgot to mention that there is at least one highly suspect individual who refuses to give a DNA sample (for what reason other than being guilty?) and whom the Thai police continues to overlook

Not knowing Thai law I am at a loss to understand why the RTP have not compelled the "...highly suspect individual..." to give a DNA sample. One would think that he has no choice in the matter.

How difficult is it for the police to switch the original DNA samples to nail possible scapegoats?? Or were the original samples sealed, tested and the results witnessed and copies held by independent trustworthy third parties?

They forgot to mention that there is at least one highly suspect individual who refuses to give a DNA sample (for what reason other than being guilty?) and whom the Thai police continues to overlook

Here we go !! If Mr. Hi -So is not guilty, why is he refusing to provide a DNA sample ? There is just too much in this case turning the fingers back to him.

This fact needs more exposure on Social Media across the world and needs to be looked at VERY SERIOUSLY.

Like sweatalot say, if this coward is not guilty and have nothing to hide why did he and his family refuse to work along with just providing a stupid DNA test..... it cost him nothing..

Instead they Lawyered Up and went through a LOT to provide " crappy " so called evidence which cost them MONEY in Lawyers fees.... and who knows..

They should simply get a court order for him to provide a DNA sample..... simple as that.

Meantime everybody's wasting valuable time, while in fact the answer is right under their noses. Nothing to Loose.

Yes. Just submit to testing to be eliminated as a suspect.

What the problem?

They forgot to mention that there is at least one highly suspect individual who refuses to give a DNA sample (for what reason other than being guilty?) and whom the Thai police continues to overlook

Here we go !! If Mr. Hi -So is not guilty, why is he refusing to provide a DNA sample ? There is just too much in this case turning the fingers back to him.

This fact needs more exposure on Social Media across the world and needs to be looked at VERY SERIOUSLY.

Like sweatalot say, if this coward is not guilty and have nothing to hide why did he and his family refuse to work along with just providing a stupid DNA test..... it cost him nothing..

Instead they Lawyered Up and went through a LOT to provide " crappy " so called evidence which cost them MONEY in Lawyers fees.... and who knows..

They should simply get a court order for him to provide a DNA sample..... simple as that.

Meantime everybody's wasting valuable time, while in fact the answer is right under their noses. Nothing to Loose.

Obviously the police is not caring. That raises the question that they know and don't want to do their duty regarding this suspect.

Anyway, when they say they took his DNA and checked it - are you sure they really did? And really checked the real DNA of that subject? May be they will have a result in 3 hours?

They forgot to mention that there is at least one highly suspect individual who refuses to give a DNA sample (for what reason other than being guilty?) and whom the Thai police continues to overlook

Here we go !! If Mr. Hi -So is not guilty, why is he refusing to provide a DNA sample ? There is just too much in this case turning the fingers back to him.

This fact needs more exposure on Social Media across the world and needs to be looked at VERY SERIOUSLY.

Like sweatalot say, if this coward is not guilty and have nothing to hide why did he and his family refuse to work along with just providing a stupid DNA test..... it cost him nothing..

Instead they Lawyered Up and went through a LOT to provide " crappy " so called evidence which cost them MONEY in Lawyers fees.... and who knows..

They should simply get a court order for him to provide a DNA sample..... simple as that.

Meantime everybody's wasting valuable time, while in fact the answer is right under their noses. Nothing to Loose.

Yes. Just submit to testing to be eliminated as a suspect.

What the problem?

If I were the guilty one and in my 20's, I would be Ting Tong or Suicidal to agree to DNA resting, right ? On the other hand, man...... if I was a member ( specially the son ) of this Hi-So family, I would really not mind to get my Rich Ass Playboy Photo out there in the public and to proof I'm innocent ( and while I'm in the spotlight, assist with finding the murder who committed this horrible crime on MY Island ) to score some lady points, right ?

The proof is in the pudding, period !!

Actions speaks Louder Than Words...

In the full TIME article re CCTV: but is circumstantial at best.

In the USA, there have been murder convictions based upon circumstantial evidence when the body of the 'murder' victim has never been recovered.

Yes but slightly different circumstances... Those investigations probably were not shrouded in negligence, bribery, lying by officials, torture and incompetence

That this one is is only speculation. That will up to a judge. A Thai judge. In Thailand. Where a crime occurred in Thailand. Not in UK. Not in Myanmar. Thailand. Under Criminal Procedure Code of Thailand.

Torture aint speculation according to the Burmese officials!

^^TTom911, if they don't that just makes it worse.

Don't want to make the RTP look stupid. Just want a safe conviction.

Understand?

Oh dear. In the paper that shall not be named. Koh Tao case shatters faith in our police.

This is just one of many BIB induced farces.

To be honest Thailand has become a total basket case in the last few years.