Extremists Gun Down Teacher In Classroom

[Netfan]

Perhaps this will make a little sense: these are two quotes from the Prophet Mohammad, taken from a biography written by a British author who spent many years in N. Africa and Saudi Arabia:

"Go and seek knowledge, even unto China”. and “Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave”.

So if these are the words of the Prophet, then anyone who shoots a teacher or burns a school is blaspheming the words of the founder of the religion. I don't consider those doing the violence in the south "Muslims". Terrorists, yes. Thugs, gangsters, cowards, yes. But no more a Muslim that someone who murders a doctor and calls themself a "Christian". It's too bad the 99.9% of the Muslims in the world who follow a peaceful life have to suffer for what a few uneducated losers are doing.

[Plus]

Easy answer is that those terrorists/murderers don't think that their children obtain knowledge in Thai schools, they think that they are indoctrinated.

Islam is the only mass religion that is standing up to western materialism. Christianity has succumbed long time ago. In Thailand people often want to become Christians to get rich like farangs. Thai Christians are mostly from upper classes, too. Buddhism is becoming largely irrelevant to modern life.

Only Islam tries to preserve its purity and purpose. Why the violence? Is it exclusive? We saw how Thai Buddhists reacted when their sacred image (Phra Prom) was destroyed, muslims are not much different. The big difference is that when they see threats to their religion, Thai Buddhists find excuses, i.e gambling, drinking, meat-eating, prostitution.

Muslims don't believe in compromises and "middle way". I personally don't think it exists, not under current circumstances and current stand off, and current direction of world development. It's a dog eats dog out there, whereas muslims don't even charge interest rates on loans. Two systems are simply incompatible.

[fruittbatt]

Perhaps this will make a little sense: these are two quotes from the Prophet Mohammad, taken from a biography written by a British author who spent many years in N. Africa and Saudi Arabia:

"Go and seek knowledge, even unto China”. and “Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave”.

So if these are the words of the Prophet, then anyone who shoots a teacher or burns a school is blaspheming the words of the founder of the religion. I don't consider those doing the violence in the south "Muslims". Terrorists, yes. Thugs, gangsters, cowards, yes. But no more a Muslim that someone who murders a doctor and calls themself a "Christian". It's too bad the 99.9% of the Muslims in the world who follow a peaceful life have to suffer for what a few uneducated losers are doing.

Well said, Netfan!

And Griffin,

when you read the newspapers, don't take media "beat-ups" at face value. Newspapers and other mass media promote and protect the very powerful corporate interests of their owners, their advertisers, and their "nation"...whatever a "nation" is...(can't say I've ever seen a nation come to think of it).

When I read or watch i always try to figure whose interests are being promoted or protected, who is being represented as the "bad guy" and why things are reported in that particular way instead of the story being told from quite another angle. News is negative because sensation sells, and simplistic divisions of the players into goodies and baddies makes for a nice easy read. Life, however, is much too complex to fit into the space of a column or a one-minute report. You gotta go deeper than the news to know what is really going on in this world..at least that's my experience for what it's worth...not trying to patronise you as I can see that you are genuinely interested in this topic. Cheers

[mittheimp]

Mittheimp, Why am I a bigot? If one disagrees with bloodsports (as i do) is it correct for its proponents to call them bigots? My point stands. Islamists are the most narrow minded people

Ok so lets presume my anti-islamic remarks are un-true! Woud someone please expalin to me the problems of Egypt, Oman, Russia, Britain, Egypt, Thailand, Israel, America, Spain, Holland, Australia, Canada, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Palestine, Libya the list goes on and on. Any country that hosts muslims has a muslim problem.

I look forward to your answers.

Lets give the last word to the president of Malaysia (a muslim from a muslim land. lest i be called a bigot) "while not all muslims are terrorists, almost all terrorists are muslims"

In your enclosed little world maybe all terrorists are Muslims, but perhaps this reflects the newspapers you are reading - they may have limited coverage of Sri Lanka's civil war, conflict throughout South America, ETA in Spain, conflict in Angola etc, not so long ago the word terrorist was synonymous with 'Irish' - was this because of the teachings from Rome?

I agree that a lot of Muslim countries are run by harsh regimes - but quite a few aren't, and the reason that conflict exists in many countries is due to an ideological battle between moderates and extremists. In Thailand the argument is less to do with religion than it is for Identity (same with northern Ireland actually), Many Thai Muslims living in the 4 southern provinces don't feel Thai and don't feel they are best represented by remaining part of Thailand.

Remember there are over 1 billion Muslims in the world - the worlds second largest religion. I called you a bigot as you seemed to believe the caricatures and stereo types you see in the media are an accurate reflection of all these 1 billion people - i do believe such an assumption is crass and bigoted (and the description i posted was a dictionary definition of bigoted - that's what the word means! is that 'dumb'!!) and deserved the reaction that you generated!

Mr Griffin, i would be interested to know where you are living, is it a multi cultural area with a large Muslim presence? What is it they you are basing these opinions on?

[terry57]

Mittheimp, Why am I a bigot? If one disagrees with bloodsports (as i do) is it correct for its proponents to call them bigots? My point stands. Islamists are the most narrow minded people

Ok so lets presume my anti-islamic remarks are un-true! Woud someone please expalin to me the problems of Egypt, Oman, Russia, Britain, Egypt, Thailand, Israel, America, Spain, Holland, Australia, Canada, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Palestine, Libya the list goes on and on. Any country that hosts muslims has a muslim problem.

I look forward to your answers.

Lets give the last word to the president of Malaysia (a muslim from a muslim land. lest i be called a bigot) "while not all muslims are terrorists, almost all terrorists are muslims"

In your enclosed little world maybe all terrorists are Muslims, but perhaps this reflects the newspapers you are reading - they may have limited coverage of Sri Lanka's civil war, conflict throughout South America, ETA in Spain, conflict in Angola etc, not so long ago the word terrorist was synonymous with 'Irish' - was this because of the teachings from Rome?

I agree that a lot of Muslim countries are run by harsh regimes - but quite a few aren't, and the reason that conflict exists in many countries is due to an ideological battle between moderates and extremists. In Thailand the argument is less to do with religion than it is for Identity (same with northern Ireland actually), Many Thai Muslims living in the 4 southern provinces don't feel Thai and don't feel they are best represented by remaining part of Thailand.

Remember there are over 1 billion Muslims in the world - the worlds second largest religion. I called you a bigot as you seemed to believe the caricatures and stereo types you see in the media are an accurate reflection of all these 1 billion people - i do believe such an assumption is crass and bigoted (and the description i posted was a dictionary definition of bigoted - that's what the word means! is that 'dumb'!!) and deserved the reaction that you generated!

Mr Griffin, i would be interested to know where you are living, is it a multi cultural area with a large Muslim presence? What is it they you are basing these opinions on?

hey griff,

your getting up mitt's nose here, as he was only stating the correct meaning of the word bigot.

the way your post reads some people could interperet you as being one.

im pointing that out to you in an informative way only so dont misinterpret my meaning please.

im from oz and im at odds to why you say we have a muslim problem ?

we have many problems in oz but no one who lives there would say that is one of them unless they are racist and bigoted , as its certainly not the case.

after the bali bombing our goverment has been monitoring militant muslims and others including australians but these are well in the minority and not representative of the average australian or muslim.

infact they are a very small minority that we have to be afraid off and i think that's true conserning these mad people in all country's.

the problem is that these small militant minorities are extremely dangerous and that is our worry in oz.

i spent a lot of time in malaysia, im in borneo at the moment and as you know the majority are muslim.

i can truly say that i have never had a problem with these people and quite to the contrary i find them to be extremely friendly, caring and always ready to help myself.

this is my first time to borneo and there friendlyness has been overwelming.

i suggest that you come and spend some time amongst these people to experience it first hand but please come with an open mind and you could possibly change your views a tad.

cheers griff.

[bannork]

Easy answer is that those terrorists/murderers don't think that their children obtain knowledge in Thai schools, they think that they are indoctrinated.

Islam is the only mass religion that is standing up to western materialism. Christianity has succumbed long time ago. In Thailand people often want to become Christians to get rich like farangs. Thai Christians are mostly from upper classes, too. Buddhism is becoming largely irrelevant to modern life.

Only Islam tries to preserve its purity and purpose. Why the violence? Is it exclusive? We saw how Thai Buddhists reacted when their sacred image (Phra Prom) was destroyed, muslims are not much different. The big difference is that when they see threats to their religion, Thai Buddhists find excuses, i.e gambling, drinking, meat-eating, prostitution.

Muslims don't believe in compromises and "middle way". I personally don't think it exists, not under current circumstances and current stand off, and current direction of world development. It's a dog eats dog out there, whereas muslims don't even charge interest rates on loans. Two systems are simply incompatible.

Nearly all the killers in the south are youths, they haven't reached adulthood yet, their 'education' mostly came from a pondok not a Thai government school.

Islam stands up to western materialism? I don't see the Arabs shunning DVDs, nice cars and luxuries. You'll be hard pressed to meet a Muslim in England who doesn't want to make money, and good luck to them in that.

Look at all the suicide car bombers in Iraq, killing fellow Muslims,no purity there.

Any purity that remains can be found in rural areas, as with Buddhism in Thailand. If you knew rural Thailand you would find plenty of people who try to follow Buddhist precepts, the difference with Islam though is Buddhists will accept others, you can have a Thai girlfriend but if your girlfriend is Muslim it's a one-way street.

[Plus]

Rich Arabs or British muslims aren't models for everyone, besides being rich doesn't equate with being materialistic. I suspect there are plenty of fairly well to do Arabs who really don't drink and gamble, and who find time for their daily prayers, five times a day facing Mecca, I believe. Which other religion takes itself so seriously?

Suicide bombers in Iraq and Palestine are actually a perfect case - they put the ideals above their personal survival instincts. They are ready to die for their religion, nation, whatever. None of the usual western values are worth dying for, certainly not modern day Christianity, for example.

I also don't think that rural Thailand is an idillic Buddhist paradise anymore - how many of them gamble and drink their lives away? How many of them live from one lottery draw to the next? How many visit temples in search of easy way to riches instead of reducing their material attachments? It's not all like that, of course, but the trend is clearly there.

It could be argued that the same non-exclusion and acceptance of everything and everyone that Buddhists are praised for is actually the cause of their downfall - if you dance with the devil...

I'm not championing muslim case, btw, just trying to understand things. I don't know what are the solutions and don't even ask me how to solve this or that problem, especially Israel-Palestinian one.

[mittheimp]

Rich Arabs or British muslims aren't models for everyone, besides being rich doesn't equate with being materialistic. I suspect there are plenty of fairly well to do Arabs who really don't drink and gamble, and who find time for their daily prayers, five times a day facing Mecca, I believe. Which other religion takes itself so seriously?

Suicide bombers in Iraq and Palestine are actually a perfect case - they put the ideals above their personal survival instincts. They are ready to die for their religion, nation, whatever. None of the usual western values are worth dying for, certainly not modern day Christianity, for example.

I also don't think that rural Thailand is an idillic Buddhist paradise anymore - how many of them gamble and drink their lives away? How many of them live from one lottery draw to the next? How many visit temples in search of easy way to riches instead of reducing their material attachments? It's not all like that, of course, but the trend is clearly there.

It could be argued that the same non-exclusion and acceptance of everything and everyone that Buddhists are praised for is actually the cause of their downfall - if you dance with the devil...

I'm not championing muslim case, btw, just trying to understand things. I don't know what are the solutions and don't even ask me how to solve this or that problem, especially Israel-Palestinian one.

Arab-Israeli conflict is much less about religion than it is about economy and identity. A lot of suicide bombers do make material decisions as they know there families will be given financial support afterwards! and how many of these muslim terorrists sacrifice there lives to be greeted by 72 virgins in heaven? Also an easy way to riches!! Most decions in life, what ever ideal they seem to be supporting can usually be reduced to fairly selfish reasoning!

"Suicide bombers in Iraq and Palestine are actually a perfect case - they put the ideals above their personal survival instincts. They are ready to die for their religion, nation, whatever None of the usual western values are worth dying for, certainly not modern day Christianity, for example"

Is that a criticism of other ideals - that they are not worth murdering for!

However All religions take themselves seriously and all religions have had terrorists supposedly protecting and supporting their ideals!

I also personally don't see the problem with drinking either!

[bannork]

Rich Arabs or British muslims aren't models for everyone, besides being rich doesn't equate with being materialistic. I suspect there are plenty of fairly well to do Arabs who really don't drink and gamble, and who find time for their daily prayers, five times a day facing Mecca, I believe. Which other religion takes itself so seriously?

Suicide bombers in Iraq and Palestine are actually a perfect case - they put the ideals above their personal survival instincts. They are ready to die for their religion, nation, whatever. None of the usual western values are worth dying for, certainly not modern day Christianity, for example.

I also don't think that rural Thailand is an idillic Buddhist paradise anymore - how many of them gamble and drink their lives away? How many of them live from one lottery draw to the next? How many visit temples in search of easy way to riches instead of reducing their material attachments? It's not all like that, of course, but the trend is clearly there.

It could be argued that the same non-exclusion and acceptance of everything and everyone that Buddhists are praised for is actually the cause of their downfall - if you dance with the devil...

I'm not championing muslim case, btw, just trying to understand things. I don't know what are the solutions and don't even ask me how to solve this or that problem, especially Israel-Palestinian one.

Arab-Israeli conflict is much less about religion than it is about economy and identity. A lot of suicide bombers do make material decisions as they know there families will be given financial support afterwards! and how many of these muslim terorrists sacrifice there lives to be greeted by 72 virgins in heaven? Also an easy way to riches!! Most decions in life, what ever ideal they seem to be supporting can usually be reduced to fairly selfish reasoning!

"Suicide bombers in Iraq and Palestine are actually a perfect case - they put the ideals above their personal survival instincts. They are ready to die for their religion, nation, whatever None of the usual western values are worth dying for, certainly not modern day Christianity, for example"

Is that a criticism of other ideals - that they are not worth murdering for!

However All religions take themselves seriously and all religions have had terrorists supposedly protecting and supporting their ideals!

I also personally don't see the problem with drinking either!

If a suicide bomber wants to blow only himself up, fine, but of course he's murdering as many people,(usually muslims), as possible. What happens to the 72 virgins in that case?

Regarding rural Buddhist practices, you're right about the gambling and drinking, but in our village the temple and its monks are still important for everyday activities such as morning alms round and making merit. There's even 24 hour recitals of Buddhist teachings from the canons on important days.

One of my brothers-in-law gives up drinking for Buddhist Lent every year, the trouble is he makes up for it the rest of the year.

[Plus]

I'm not passing judgement on any ideals - I'm saying muslims think that theirs are worth dying for, many others don't.

I seriously doubt that suicide bombers are driven by desire to obtain 72 virgins, they are at war and they think this war is just and holy. Payments to the families and promises of afterlife are secondary.

9/11 and London bombers weren't after the virgins for sure, nor were they after material success.

>>>>>>

You can't deny that muslims are relatively more strict with adjusting their lives and personal wants to their religious rules while in many other religions there aren't any rules left to follow. Being a Christian or Buddhist is alot easier on your lifestyle. Do we need to argue that? I think it's rather obvious.

[opothai]

I seriously doubt that suicide bombers are driven by desire to obtain 72 virgins, they are at war and they think this war is just and holy. Payments to the families and promises of afterlife are secondary.

9/11 and London bombers weren't after the virgins for sure, nor were they after material success.

>>>>>>

.

i think these people do not understand religion, as muslim is meant to be loving and peacefull, untill you miss interpritate certain passages in the koran as you can with the bible.

now if every body stood up for thier religion as you seem to admire so much, as the muslim religion does, how far would this little world go before it was ended.

these idiots do receive payments to the families and so think of the promised land.

as for muslims being a strict religion how come so many travel to bkk and pattaya and the rest of the world and taste the forbidden fruits of life.

its all about money and power and getting thick backward young idiot to do thier bidding.

as soon as the sh+t hits the fan the top clerics run and hide some even come to the uk and expect a living.

if the so called clerics stood up and fought then i could understand some people following but the extreme clerics are COWARDS and deranged nut cases trying to gain some sort of power in the world even at the expence of killing many many other fellow muslims.

what sort of religion is that?

[dog412]

the problem for thailand is determining who is funding this "militant" movement in the south. at that point, you will find the true idealistic reason for the violence. if i was a guessing man....

[terry57]

I seriously doubt that suicide bombers are driven by desire to obtain 72 virgins, they are at war and they think this war is just and holy. Payments to the families and promises of afterlife are secondary.

9/11 and London bombers weren't after the virgins for sure, nor were they after material success.

>>>>>>

.

i think these people do not understand religion, as muslim is meant to be loving and peacefull, untill you miss interpritate certain passages in the koran as you can with the bible.

now if every body stood up for thier religion as you seem to admire so much, as the muslim religion does, how far would this little world go before it was ended.

these idiots do receive payments to the families and so think of the promised land.

as for muslims being a strict religion how come so many travel to bkk and pattaya and the rest of the world and taste the forbidden fruits of life.

its all about money and power and getting thick backward young idiot to do thier bidding.

as soon as the sh+t hits the fan the top clerics run and hide some even come to the uk and expect a living.

if the so called clerics stood up and fought then i could understand some people following but the extreme clerics are COWARDS and deranged nut cases trying to gain some sort of power in the world even at the expence of killing many many other fellow muslims.

what sort of religion is that?

this would have to be the best post i have read on this subject.

every thing that the author state's is strait up, spot on and true to the point.

the trouble is, a lot of people cant handle the truth, bury there heads in the sand and throw up pathetic excuses for these derainged people who kill in the name of religion.

very basic reasoning that opothai is stating here and not hard to understand.

im sure many people are with you on this post opothai.

thanks for the read.

[fruittbatt]

I seriously doubt that suicide bombers are driven by desire to obtain 72 virgins, they are at war and they think this war is just and holy. Payments to the families and promises of afterlife are secondary.

9/11 and London bombers weren't after the virgins for sure, nor were they after material success.

>>>>>>

.

i think these people do not understand religion, as muslim is meant to be loving and peacefull, untill you miss interpritate certain passages in the koran as you can with the bible.

now if every body stood up for thier religion as you seem to admire so much, as the muslim religion does, how far would this little world go before it was ended.

these idiots do receive payments to the families and so think of the promised land.

as for muslims being a strict religion how come so many travel to bkk and pattaya and the rest of the world and taste the forbidden fruits of life.

its all about money and power and getting thick backward young idiot to do thier bidding.

as soon as the sh+t hits the fan the top clerics run and hide some even come to the uk and expect a living.

if the so called clerics stood up and fought then i could understand some people following but the extreme clerics are COWARDS and deranged nut cases trying to gain some sort of power in the world even at the expence of killing many many other fellow muslims.

what sort of religion is that?

this would have to be the best post i have read on this subject.

every thing that the author state's is strait up, spot on and true to the point.

the trouble is, a lot of people cant handle the truth, bury there heads in the sand and throw up pathetic excuses for these derainged people who kill in the name of religion.

very basic reasoning that opothai is stating here and not hard to understand.

im sure many people are with you on this post opothai.

thanks for the read.

For a totally different perspective on this topic it is worth reading today's Bangkok Post, the first page of "Outlook" section - about a Thai Buddhist's experiences of working with Muslims in Pattani. This is the sort of article that keeps me buying newspapers. Highly recommended and probably available online.

[mittheimp]

For a totally different perspective on this topic it is worth reading today's Bangkok Post, the first page of "Outlook" section - about a Thai Buddhist's experiences of working with Muslims in Pattani. This is the sort of article that keeps me buying newspapers. Highly recommended and probably available online.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Outlook/31Jul2006_out01.php

[Plus]

now if every body stood up for thier religion as you seem to admire so much, as the muslim religion does, how far would this little world go before it was ended.

I don't think muslims would have problem with other religions, it's the "infidels" that they are fighting against. I think they take "infidel" in a broad sense - one who does not believe in God at all, or even worse - one who only pretend to believe.

these idiots do receive payments to the families and so think of the promised land.

These idiots don't receive any payments. I also don't think it's a plausible explanation - they are not selling their children into prostitution, not even selling kidneys, they are dying themselves. This economic theory completely ignores the ideals as a cause of terrorism, but is good for bashing muslims.

as for muslims being a strict religion how come so many travel to bkk and pattaya and the rest of the world and taste the forbidden fruits of life.

Just how many? And the fact that they have to travel to Bkk or Pattaya says that back home the religion has a very tight control over their lives.

its all about money and power and getting thick backward young idiot to do thier bidding.

as soon as the sh+t hits the fan the top clerics run and hide some even come to the uk and expect a living.

Well, Osama Bin Laden is in hiding, no questions. Abu Bakar Bashir though isn't, and Hamas leaders go into hiding only when Israelis target their houses with precision bombs. And where is that money and power they get by sending suicide bombers on Israelis?

if the so called clerics stood up and fought then i could understand some people following but the extreme clerics are COWARDS and deranged nut cases trying to gain some sort of power in the world even at the expence of killing many many other fellow muslims.

So you cannot understand why so many people follow these cowards and nut cases. Maybe it's because they aren't actually cowards, and maybe they sound perfectly reasonable to thousands of people.

The suicide bomber "movement" has become so widespread that you can't blame it on some cult following. It's not based on charismati personalities like Shoko Asahara, or David Koresh, or Jim Jones.

They don't do it for the money, nor for the virgins, nor for "dear leader". Why don't you accept it the face value - to protect their religion/land from infidels who destroy their way of life.

Here's a quote from that BP article:

Loss of faith, Nukul says, causes people to succumb to greed. "If we overuse our natural resources in a rapacious fashion, the system will soon collapse."

[fruittbatt]

For a totally different perspective on this topic it is worth reading today's Bangkok Post, the first page of "Outlook" section - about a Thai Buddhist's experiences of working with Muslims in Pattani. This is the sort of article that keeps me buying newspapers. Highly recommended and probably available online.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Outlook/31Jul2006_out01.php

thanks, mit!

[terry57]

For a totally different perspective on this topic it is worth reading today's Bangkok Post, the first page of "Outlook" section - about a Thai Buddhist's experiences of working with Muslims in Pattani. This is the sort of article that keeps me buying newspapers. Highly recommended and probably available online.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Outlook/31Jul2006_out01.php

thanks, mit!

ok , ill read it just give me a minute or so and i'll get back in to this.

[bannork]

now if every body stood up for thier religion as you seem to admire so much, as the muslim religion does, how far would this little world go before it was ended.

I don't think muslims would have problem with other religions, it's the "infidels" that they are fighting against. I think they take "infidel" in a broad sense - one who does not believe in God at all, or even worse - one who only pretend to believe.

these idiots do receive payments to the families and so think of the promised land.

These idiots don't receive any payments. I also don't think it's a plausible explanation - they are not selling their children into prostitution, not even selling kidneys, they are dying themselves. This economic theory completely ignores the ideals as a cause of terrorism, but is good for bashing muslims.

as for muslims being a strict religion how come so many travel to bkk and pattaya and the rest of the world and taste the forbidden fruits of life.

Just how many? And the fact that they have to travel to Bkk or Pattaya says that back home the religion has a very tight control over their lives.

its all about money and power and getting thick backward young idiot to do thier bidding.

as soon as the sh+t hits the fan the top clerics run and hide some even come to the uk and expect a living.

Well, Osama Bin Laden is in hiding, no questions. Abu Bakar Bashir though isn't, and Hamas leaders go into hiding only when Israelis target their houses with precision bombs. And where is that money and power they get by sending suicide bombers on Israelis?

if the so called clerics stood up and fought then i could understand some people following but the extreme clerics are COWARDS and deranged nut cases trying to gain some sort of power in the world even at the expence of killing many many other fellow muslims.

So you cannot understand why so many people follow these cowards and nut cases. Maybe it's because they aren't actually cowards, and maybe they sound perfectly reasonable to thousands of people.

The suicide bomber "movement" has become so widespread that you can't blame it on some cult following. It's not based on charismati personalities like Shoko Asahara, or David Koresh, or Jim Jones.

They don't do it for the money, nor for the virgins, nor for "dear leader". Why don't you accept it the face value - to protect their religion/land from infidels who destroy their way of life.

Here's a quote from that BP article:

Loss of faith, Nukul says, causes people to succumb to greed. "If we overuse our natural resources in a rapacious fashion, the system will soon collapse."

The suicide bomber hasn't reached Thailand or Indonesia yet, though the latter has the 'laughing bomber' sentenced to death.

The suicide mass killer bomber only occurs in the Middle-East, with the rare occurence in the West, ie Sept 11 and the London underground.

The present bombs in Iraq are sect killings betwen the Shi-ites and Sunnis,I don't see how they are protecting their land from the infidels by killing each other.

What is the average age of a suicide bomber? Very young I bet, just the right age to be influenced by a 'dear leader' to kill innocents.

[opothai]

So you cannot understand why so many people follow these cowards and nut cases. Maybe it's because they aren't actually cowards, and maybe they sound perfectly reasonable to thousands of people.

The suicide bomber "movement" has become so widespread that you can't blame it on some cult following. It's not based on charismati personalities like Shoko Asahara, or David Koresh, or Jim Jones.

They don't do it for the money, nor for the virgins, nor for "dear leader". Why don't you accept it the face value - to protect their religion/land from infidels who destroy their way of life.

Here's a quote from that BP article:

Loss of faith, Nukul says, causes people to succumb to greed. "If we overuse our natural resources in a rapacious fashion, the system will soon collapse."

if you could have seen panorama sunday evening

you would have seen the clerics teaching the young muslims to sing songs about the glory of carrying a kalashnicov and the jubilation in killing the infidels.

these kids were 7 to 12 years of age, is this education or brain washjing and indoctrination.

come on man get real, if these children were educated with an open mind along with an understanding of thier religion i dare say the same said children would turn on these poisonous dangerous clerics.

it is the young that are going to lose in life through the teaching of a few mad mulla's

the bottom line is in this day and age thier is no need for murder for the sake of religion, we should have gotten over that in the MIDDLE AGES. move on and make this a better world

make no mistake thier will be only one winner. the west who believe in freedom of speech and general acceptance. has more power than the mad mulla's

death and destruction is the only winner, and that will make these idiots happy ???

[BangnaBound]

I think Plus has been drinking the Kool-Aid. You seem to be in aw of the devotion to a ‘higher purpose’ that these murders seem to possess. Let me shatter your illusion. People are surprisingly easy to manipulate, and can be convinced to do almost anything with proper conditioning. Remember the suicide cult with the matching track suits that killed themselves so the ‘mother ship’ could come and collect them. Some of these guys castrated themselves before killing themselves ‘for their religion’. But before you say, ‘hey, that’s just some wacky cult’, let me just say that the scientifically proven method used by cult leaders to condition their followers, is pretty much the same protocol used on suicide killers.

But this really isn’t the case in this story. These guys weren’t on a suicide mission, just gross depravity. The real story isn’t what motivated these thugs to kill, but why the usual motivators against such behavior are not in affect in Southern Thailand.

If the IRA had used the tactics that Islamist terrorists use (killing school children like in Chechnya, or shooting a teacher in the head in front a classroom), how do you think their own supporters would react? A lot more critical than the typical Muslim responses would be my guess.

[Plus]

Let me shatter your illusion. People are surprisingly easy to manipulate, and can be convinced to do almost anything with proper conditioning. Remember the suicide cult with the matching track suits that killed themselves so the ‘mother ship’ could come and collect them. Some of these guys castrated themselves before killing themselves ‘for their religion’. But before you say, ‘hey, that’s just some wacky cult’, let me just say that the scientifically proven method used by cult leaders to condition their followers, is pretty much the same protocol used on suicide killers.

It's a very long shot - to blame all suicide bombers on mind control. They might use these techiniques in Palestine, but there are plenty of examples of people acting on their own or in small cells all around the world. That is mentioned in every terrorist study - they don't need any leaders anymore, they act on their own, driven by ideology, not by "scientifically proven methods". I don't even think they draw their inspiration from occasional Bin Laden videos - their ideology lives on its own.

the bottom line is in this day and age thier is no need for murder for the sake of religion, we should have gotten over that in the MIDDLE AGES.

Ironically, the West feels it's quite ok to kill in the name of freedom of speech and democracy in 21st century. Collateral damage, "sacrifices must be made" - it all looks very different to muslims on the ground.

The west has lost all moral superiority over "mullahs" after Guantanamo, Abu Graib, and generally Iraq adventure.

While suicide bombers haven't reached Thailand yet, we had suicidal attacks in which dozens people were killed - Krue Sue massacre day, remember? Youths jumping on police stations, in the line of fire, armed with machetes.

[terry57]

now if every body stood up for thier religion as you seem to admire so much, as the muslim religion does, how far would this little world go before it was ended.

I don't think muslims would have problem with other religions, it's the "infidels" that they are fighting against. I think they take "infidel" in a broad sense - one who does not believe in God at all, or even worse - one who only pretend to believe.

these idiots do receive payments to the families and so think of the promised land.

These idiots don't receive any payments. I also don't think it's a plausible explanation - they are not selling their children into prostitution, not even selling kidneys, they are dying themselves. This economic theory completely ignores the ideals as a cause of terrorism, but is good for bashing muslims.

as for muslims being a strict religion how come so many travel to bkk and pattaya and the rest of the world and taste the forbidden fruits of life.

Just how many? And the fact that they have to travel to Bkk or Pattaya says that back home the religion has a very tight control over their lives.

its all about money and power and getting thick backward young idiot to do thier bidding.

as soon as the sh+t hits the fan the top clerics run and hide some even come to the uk and expect a living.

Well, Osama Bin Laden is in hiding, no questions. Abu Bakar Bashir though isn't, and Hamas leaders go into hiding only when Israelis target their houses with precision bombs. And where is that money and power they get by sending suicide bombers on Israelis?

if the so called clerics stood up and fought then i could understand some people following but the extreme clerics are COWARDS and deranged nut cases trying to gain some sort of power in the world even at the expence of killing many many other fellow muslims.

So you cannot understand why so many people follow these cowards and nut cases. Maybe it's because they aren't actually cowards, and maybe they sound perfectly reasonable to thousands of people.

The suicide bomber "movement" has become so widespread that you can't blame it on some cult following. It's not based on charismati personalities like Shoko Asahara, or David Koresh, or Jim Jones.

They don't do it for the money, nor for the virgins, nor for "dear leader". Why don't you accept it the face value - to protect their religion/land from infidels who destroy their way of life.

Here's a quote from that BP article:

Loss of faith, Nukul says, causes people to succumb to greed. "If we overuse our natural resources in a rapacious fashion, the system will soon collapse."

The suicide bomber hasn't reached Thailand or Indonesia yet, though the latter has the 'laughing bomber' sentenced to death.

The suicide mass killer bomber only occurs in the Middle-East, with the rare occurence in the West, ie Sept 11 and the London underground.

The present bombs in Iraq are sect killings betwen the Shi-ites and Sunnis,I don't see how they are protecting their land from the infidels by killing each other.

What is the average age of a suicide bomber? Very young I bet, just the right age to be influenced by a 'dear leader' to kill innocents.

"quote" the suicide bomber has'nt reached thailand or indonesia yet.

well you correct on one of those aspects and thats thailand, but i would'nt be holding my breath considering what is going on down south.

there not far away from that as if they are prepared to cut peoples heads off, the next step is to take out as many people as they can and thats got to be the suicide bomber.

no person can defeate a suicide bomber as they are willing to sacrifice there own lives for there perceived cause.

regards indonesia, have you forgotton already the people who were blown up in kuta and at that beach restaurant in the second terrorist attack on bali ?

us australians certainly havn't but just goes to show how soon people forget things.

[bannork]

Apologies if I'm wrong but I thought the first Bali bombing was a car bomb detonated by remote control. If I remember rightly there was a small bomb detonated (in a bar?) first to lure all the people out on to the street and then the big car bomb.

Apologies again if the second bomb in the restaurant was a suicide bomber, I forgot.