ISIS' reasons for enslaving women

[JockPieandBeans]

7x7

This is a quote from a current TV thread.

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Malaysian police have arrested 13 people believed to have "links" with the Islamic State, a report said Wednesday, as concern grows over the extremist group's appeal in the moderate Muslim country.

The Star newspaper quoted national police chief Khalid Abu Bakar as saying the 13 Malaysians were arrested in a raid on a restaurant in a Kuala Lumpur suburb.

He added they bring the number of people arrested since April this year over suspected IS links to 36.

"We are constantly monitoring these kinds of activities. Militancy and terrorism have no place in this country," he was quoted saying.

As you are very keen on labelling IS as a terrorist group. Why do you think, it appears that their appeal is growing in a " Moderate Muslim " Country ?

Besides the fact that daily inculcaton of islamic teachings throughout the world sound exactly like the ISIS rationales for their actions, their own politicians have glorified IS actions in the Mid east. They may backpeddle under pressure, but the islamic world, for the most part, is eagerly waiting to see if a caliph will stick it out, and fufill a billion + desires. http://www.therakyatpost.com/news/2014/06/25/must-pm-glorify-isis-terrorists/

You may like to read the article below.

http://www.rappler.com/world/regions/asia-pacific/70320-malaysia-najib-unga-speech

Drew flak in June for his comments, takes until September 26th at a speech at the UN to issue a retraction ?

That sounds more like backed into a corner to me.

It still does not explain, why it is being reported, that the appeal of IS is growing in Malaysia.

Perhaps it was his comments in June that started the appeal of IS. Or maybe it is because the majority of moderate Muslims that we keep hearing about, are perhaps not as moderate as people think.

[KunMatt]

it is because the majority of moderate Muslims that we keep hearing about, are perhaps not as moderate as people think.

It's obviously not as simple as sympathisers make out that there are just two types of Muslims; i.e. the "radicals" and the "moderates". It's just an easy way for them to say the jihadists are the bad guys so every other Muslim must be a good guy and is potentially your best friend. There is at least another category of Pro-Islamists who are not moderate but also not extreme enough to be radical but they are pushing for Shariah Law and imposing Islamic laws onto everyone else. In the UK there are mobs of Muslim rallies, these people are not jihadists or terrorists but they are also not easy going "moderate Muslims" as they are activists for Islam in non-Islamic countries and they are anti-UK.

I believe that the majority of Muslims are like these Pro-Islamists. This is why the vast majority of Muslims are silent because even though they are not jihadists they have a similar goal which is why they are silent on the radical's activities because by doing and saying nothing they will get what they want in the end.

The IS has taken the extremism to an extreme even the Pro-Islamists fear which is why they have started speaking out against them, but rest assured it does not mean that Pro-Islamists are not only on the side on Islam and only the Islamic way and they are still the biggest threat to our western civilised way of life.

Eventually people like 7by7 will get it, maybe when his hometown becomes completely Halal or is under Shariah Law, maybe when he's out in the city he grew up in and it's nothing but a sea of burkha's, maybe when all his churches are mosques and there's the call to prayer ringing through his neighbourhood five times a day. I wonder how Islamophobic he will feel then?

[arjunadawn]

Besides the fact that daily inculcaton of islamic teachings throughout the world sound exactly like the ISIS rationales for their actions, their own politicians have glorified IS actions in the Mid east. They may backpeddle under pressure, but the islamic world, for the most part, is eagerly waiting to see if a caliph will stick it out, and fufill a billion + desires. http://www.therakyatpost.com/news/2014/06/25/must-pm-glorify-isis-terrorists/

You may like to read the article below.

http://www.rappler.com/world/regions/asia-pacific/70320-malaysia-najib-unga-speech

Drew flak in June for his comments, takes until September 26th at a speech at the UN to issue a retraction ?

That sounds more like backed into a corner to me.

It still does not explain, why it is being reported, that the appeal of IS is growing in Malaysia.

Perhaps it was his comments in June that started the appeal of IS. Or maybe it is because the majority of moderate Muslims that we keep hearing about, are perhaps not as moderate as people think.

You know, it is not correct that the majority of muslims condemn jihadists. However, I think it is fair to say the majority of muslims would like to live in peace, be loved, have kids, security, neighbors, good stories and friends, and worship as they know best. I suspect it is this deep intuition of our similarity that has many "supporters" of the silent majority concept believing it true; it must be true if we have so many similarities- and we do, as humans.

But deeply desiring to see Islam supreme and deeply desiring to see a caliphate reinstated, most muslims are passive to eager at the exponential growth of jihad and its rapid gains. I dont think this means most applaud slavery, or rape, or sensless murder. I think they remain silent because it nearly seems a means to an end; and quite frankly, it is happening fast. But most definitely, in order to repudiate IS, one has to signficantly repudiate core islamic principles. Indeed, much of the noise about IS revolves around central shar'ia principles regarding the ordering of society, roles of unbelievers, secondary roles of slaves and concubines, who is taxed... these are core features of the shar'ia latticework. To openly reject these tenets is to blaspheme.

The concept that muslims just wish to practice their muslim faith in their respective countries is, for the most part, not borne out by their own testimonies nor the pulpit activities of mosques throughout the world. One cannot read the islamic works without a sense of being empowered as an especially favored people and one can purchase this same unique surpremacy by virture or reciting the shahada-lā ʾilāha ʾillā-llāh, muhammadun rasūlu-llāh. This is enough to join this favored people. It is unquestionable that IS sees itself as divinely mandated to action their deeds- they are! All that is really at issue between the larger muslim world and IS is who actually should be claiming/establishing this first modern era caliphate? A majority of "moderate muslims" in the West have toiled years in and around Western institutions to manipulate or influence policies that later enable islamic expansion, and they are sorely put out by al baghdaddi's rapid rise- but they do not object to the core concepts.

[wellred]

The issue here is not so much the religion itself. It's yet another example of western folks poking their noses where it's not needed. We get hung up here on democracy but the fact is some places function better under a dictatorship. When you have inter religious conflict and inter tribal interests then a democracy does not work. Saddam would not have let them rampage throgh Iraq had he not been removed. Somalia, Iraq, Egpyt ect... Not saying a dictatorship is a good thing, but comparing objective reality I think most Iraqis were better off before.

[7by7]

Thousands Of British Muslims Gather To Denounce ISIS, Hear Messages Of Peace

Think Muslims Haven’t Condemned ISIS? Think Again

Muslim Leaders Worldwide Condemn ISIS

Isis concern: British Muslim leaders condemn extremist group

Just four links from the many found when putting "Muslims condemn ISIS" into Google.

Then there's videos like these on YouTube; the first being an, unfortunately as we all know unsuccessful, appeal to spare Alan Henning.

[7by7]

It seems one can't post more than two videos in one post; so here's the third:

[ttthailand]

So basically Isis kidnaps and rapes girls because it is ok in their believes.... Or is it really that they are too stupid and ugly for any woman to want to have anything to do with them so they have to over power them and take them against their will. Losers every last one of them ...

[JockPieandBeans]

it is because the majority of moderate Muslims that we keep hearing about, are perhaps not as moderate as people think.

It's obviously not as simple as sympathisers make out that there are just two types of Muslims; i.e. the "radicals" and the "moderates". It's just an easy way for them to say the jihadists are the bad guys so every other Muslim must be a good guy and is potentially your best friend. There is at least another category of Pro-Islamists who are not moderate but also not extreme enough to be radical but they are pushing for Shariah Law and imposing Islamic laws onto everyone else. In the UK there are mobs of Muslim rallies, these people are not jihadists or terrorists but they are also not easy going "moderate Muslims" as they are activists for Islam in non-Islamic countries and they are anti-UK.

I believe that the majority of Muslims are like these Pro-Islamists. This is why the vast majority of Muslims are silent because even though they are not jihadists they have a similar goal which is why they are silent on the radical's activities because by doing and saying nothing they will get what they want in the end.

The IS has taken the extremism to an extreme even the Pro-Islamists fear which is why they have started speaking out against them, but rest assured it does not mean that Pro-Islamists are not only on the side on Islam and only the Islamic way and they are still the biggest threat to our western civilised way of life.

Eventually people like 7by7 will get it, maybe when his hometown becomes completely Halal or is under Shariah Law, maybe when he's out in the city he grew up in and it's nothing but a sea of burkha's, maybe when all his churches are mosques and there's the call to prayer ringing through his neighbourhood five times a day. I wonder how Islamophobic he will feel then?

Is there a difference between 'war slaves' and 'prisoners of war' from ISIS ?

If you are a fully paid up, brainwashed member of Islamic nutjobs are us, the answer is NO.

If you are an clear headed, decent member of society, the answer is YES.

If someone is too stupid to know the difference, that is a whole new thread.

[KunMatt]

Is there a difference between 'war slaves' and 'prisoners of war' from ISIS ?

If you are a fully paid up, brainwashed member of Islamic nutjobs are us, the answer is NO.

If you are an clear headed, decent member of society, the answer is YES.

If someone is too stupid to know the difference, that is a whole new thread.

Can't believe you got suckered into replying to this guy. Have you learned nothing from his posts in this thread??

Get ready for an idiotic childish retort from him...

[Scott]

A few posters are well on their way to a lengthy suspension for off-topic trolling.

You have been warned.

[me313]

The subjugation of women is part of the entire strategy of subjugation for all these "war-torn" regions. It's intended to break the spirit of the captured, and bring offspring from rape relationships so children of these unfortunate pairings adhere to the dominating abuser, and grow up to hate their own culture and adhere to the oppressors, identify with them and betray their culture. It also trickles down into domestic violence situations in "normal" family relationship in "peaceful" countries. In Africa even 2 year old babies are being raped in certain extremely violent countries where women are raped/murdered. It's part of the fracturing of cultural identity, not a part of any religion. It's part of a formula to brainwash victims into a type of affinity with those who brutalize them, otherwise known as Stockholm Syndrome. There is a long-range plan here, not some freak incidental rape sex slave situation. It will ensure future generations of people who will work to support the new ISIS regime, which I doubt is limited to that region of the world but is a worldwide endeavor to control that region.

[H1w4yR1da]

IS's justification for these actions seem to come from the Koran itself.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/raymond-ibrahim/muhammad-and-islams-sex-slaves/

"As for “theological reasons” for sex slavery “according to the Sharia,” these are legion—from male Muslim clerics, to female Muslim activists. Generally they need do no more than cite the clear words of Koran 4:3, which permit Muslims to copulate with female captives of war, or ma malakat aymanukum, “what”—not whom—“your right hands possess.” "

Edited October 16, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[7by7]

Only those listed above could ever deny that the vast majority of Muslim leaders, scholars, ordinary Muslims have condemned IS, and similar terrorists, and stressed that IS have perverted Islam.

The vast majority of ordinary Muslims have condemned IS?

Really?

I must have missed that on BBC.

Apparently the 'vast majorty' of 1.6 billion muslims have all condemned IS?

When did they all do that exactly? Did they all get together in a meeting issue a press release? Or was it an online petition?

I eagerly await links to this momentous occasion.

Please give your pro-Islamist hyperbole BS a rest.

I have provided the links, I await your comment.

IS's justification for these actions seem to come from the Koran itself.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/raymond-ibrahim/muhammad-and-islams-sex-slaves/

"As for “theological reasons” for sex slavery “according to the Sharia,” these are legion—from male Muslim clerics, to female Muslim activists. Generally they need do no more than cite the clear words of Koran 4:3, which permit Muslims to copulate with female captives of war, or ma malakat aymanukum, “what”—not whom—“your right hands possess.” "

As has been shown many times in this topic, apart from the terrorists who use them as an excuse, Muslim scholars and leaders all say that the circumstances where quotes such as this would apply no longer exist in the modern world.

Even those we would deem as radical, such as Khilafah.com (with whose views on Israel I would certainly not agree), from whom I quoted earlier.

But, of course, you and the Islamaphobic websites, such as Frontpagemag, you regularly quote from refuse to recognise this.

Why do you believe the words of an extremist, terrorist group instead of the words of the many Muslim leaders, Imams, scholars and ordinary Muslims themselves who have, as has been shown, condemned that group?

[H1w4yR1da]

I have provided the links, I await your comment...

..Why do you believe the words of an extremist, terrorist group instead of the words of the many Muslim leaders, Imams, scholars and ordinary Muslims themselves who have, as has been shown, condemned that group?

You provided links to where the 'vast majority' of 1.6 billion Muslims condemned IS? Sorry, but I must have missed them.

As to your last point. From the far-left Huff Post. Pro-Islam academic Reza Aslan: "If ISIS Says It's Muslim, Then It's Muslim".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/15/reza-aslan-isis-muslim_n_5992110.html

Edited October 16, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[7by7]

I have provided the links, I await your comment...

..Why do you believe the words of an extremist, terrorist group instead of the words of the many Muslim leaders, Imams, scholars and ordinary Muslims themselves who have, as has been shown, condemned that group?

You provided links to where the 'vast majority' of 1.6 billion Muslims condemned IS? Sorry, but I must have missed them.

See this post at the top of this page and the one following it.

Here's some more:

British Muslims Unite To Condemn 'Evil' ISIS

Muslim Organizations & Scholars Condemn ISIS

ISLAMIC SCHOLARS REJECT BAGHDADI'S CALIPHATE, CONDEMN ISIS

Bristol Muslim condemns IS killing of charity worker Alan Henning

Muslim leaders release letter debunking 'the falsehood that ISIS in any way represents Islamic beliefs or practices'

More Than 100 Muslim Clerics Sign Letter Condemning ISIS

I'll grant you that not all of the above, nor those provided previously, come from the UK; but this is a world issue, not just a UK one.

As to your last point. From the far-left Huff Post. Pro-Islam academic Reza Aslan: "If ISIS Says It's Muslim, Then It's Muslim".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/15/reza-aslan-isis-muslim_n_5992110.html

I provide many links to many Muslims calling ISIS un Islamic; you come back with one man saying differently!

Even then, he is not supporting, condoning, excusing or apologising for ISIS; you should read the article, not just the headline!

Aslan also warned against saying that the Islamic State isn't Muslim, which may be true in some regards but misleading in others.

"ISIS' notion of reestablishing slavery as part of Islam -- I mean, if you know anything about Islamic history the very first thing that Muhammad did was outlaw slavery," Aslan said. "Nevertheless, there is no such thing as a Muslim pope, there is no such thing as a Muslim Vatican. No one gets to tell you who is and who is not a Muslim."

(My emphasis)

Click on the link in the article to see the video of what he said in full and in context.

[samran]

I have provided the links, I await your comment...

..Why do you believe the words of an extremist, terrorist group instead of the words of the many Muslim leaders, Imams, scholars and ordinary Muslims themselves who have, as has been shown, condemned that group?

You provided links to where the 'vast majority' of 1.6 billion Muslims condemned IS? Sorry, but I must have missed them.

See this post at the top of this page and the one following it.

Here's some more:

British Muslims Unite To Condemn 'Evil' ISIS

Muslim Organizations & Scholars Condemn ISIS

ISLAMIC SCHOLARS REJECT BAGHDADI'S CALIPHATE, CONDEMN ISIS

Bristol Muslim condemns IS killing of charity worker Alan Henning

Muslim leaders release letter debunking 'the falsehood that ISIS in any way represents Islamic beliefs or practices'

More Than 100 Muslim Clerics Sign Letter Condemning ISIS

I'll grant you that not all of the above, nor those provided previously, come from the UK; but this is a world issue, not just a UK one.

As to your last point. From the far-left Huff Post. Pro-Islam academic Reza Aslan: "If ISIS Says It's Muslim, Then It's Muslim".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/15/reza-aslan-isis-muslim_n_5992110.html

I provide many links to many Muslims calling ISIS un Islamic; you come back with one man saying differently!

Even then, he is not supporting, condoning, excusing or apologising for ISIS; you should read the article, not just the headline!

Aslan also warned against saying that the Islamic State isn't Muslim, which may be true in some regards but misleading in others.

"ISIS' notion of reestablishing slavery as part of Islam -- I mean, if you know anything about Islamic history the very first thing that Muhammad did was outlaw slavery," Aslan said. "Nevertheless, there is no such thing as a Muslim pope, there is no such thing as a Muslim Vatican. No one gets to tell you who is and who is not a Muslim."

(My emphasis)

Click on the link in the article to see the video of what he said in full and in context.

Playing video link bingo is all these blokes know how to do. And they don't even do it well.

Don't lower yourself. I guess it is a diversion for them from their regular games of bingo with all the other geriatrics or shaking their fists at the sky.

Edited October 16, 2014 by samran

[H1w4yR1da]

Playing video link bingo is all these blokes know how to do. And they don't even do it well.

Don't lower yourself. I guess it is a diversion for them from their regular games of bingo with all the other geriatrics.

Looks like samran is resorting to the 'I don't like how you're playing so I'm taking my ball home' tactic. Pathetic!

"But most of it [islamic State “article” or fatwa] is devoted to theological justifications for Islamic State behaviour, citing early clerics and the practices of the Prophet Mohammed and his Companions during the early years of Islamic expansion."

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/raymond-ibrahim/muhammad-and-islams-sex-slaves/

[samran]

Playing video link bingo is all these blokes know how to do. And they don't even do it well.

Don't lower yourself. I guess it is a diversion for them from their regular games of bingo with all the other geriatrics.

Looks like samran is resorting to the 'I don't like how you're playing so I'm taking my ball home' tactic. Pathetic!

"But most of it [islamic State article or fatwa] is devoted to theological justifications for Islamic State behaviour, citing early clerics and the practices of the Prophet Mohammed and his Companions during the early years of Islamic expansion."

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/raymond-ibrahim/muhammad-and-islams-sex-slaves/

Wow. A link.

Quelle suprise!

What next?

[7by7]

H1w4yR1da,

I again refer you to the many links provided earlier.

I again ask you; why do you believe the words of an extremist, terrorist group instead of the words of the many Muslim leaders, Imams, scholars and ordinary Muslims themselves who have, as has been shown, condemned that group?

Until you answer that question, there is no point in engaging with you further on this subject.

[H1w4yR1da]

See this post at the top of this page and the one following it.

.

Sorry, but I think you need to re-read some of your earlier posts.

You said....

Only those listed above could ever deny that the vast majority of Muslim leaders, scholars, ordinary Muslims have condemned IS, and similar terrorists, and stressed that IS have perverted Islam.

"The vast majority...of ordinary Muslims have condemned IS."

Apparently, there are over 1.6 billion Muslims. So a basic (not even a vast one) majority would mean over 800 million Muslims. A vast majority would, I feel, be over a billion.

I asked for links showing this and you posted a few videos of Imams and ordinary Muslims doing so. Not exactly representative of a billion Muslims are they.

So, I'll repeat what I said earlier.

Please give your pro-Islamist hyperbole BS a rest.

Edited October 16, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[7by7]

OK, an additional question for you.

Where is your proof that the majority of ordinary Muslims support ISIS or any other extremist, terrorist group?

Their leaders don't; their Imams don't; their spokespeople don't; many of them, in the west particularly, have publicly shown in street demonstrations and online videos that they don't.

So why do you think that they do?

And don't quote the Koran again; that excuse has well and truly been debunked!

[canuckamuck]

So if the whole world was under the control of Muslims, meaning all governments 100% Muslim.

And they no longer have to pretend to be moderates or appease western standards of rights and freedoms..

What kind of Islam would we have? Would it be ISIS style Islam, Saudi style, or Turkish style.

[arjunadawn]

It seems one can't post more than two videos in one post; so here's the third:

You know, I sure as hell hope you are correct. When something meaningful is said opposing radical jihad, it should be noted. While I have my reservations, I am keen to keep an open mind so when convinced, I can support those who are rejecting this path.

It is a curious theological debate both within and outside Islam that a reformation of sorts was long pending/needed. Sadly, I think (and smarter people than me) we actually are in the islamic reformation now. Unquestionably, that which is believed and supported to declare oneself muslim is being negotiated and discussed daily. This is among the prime reasons, IMO, that "muslim majority" silence conceeds ground to what we call "jihadists." In my opinion, this reformation of sorts is exactly as other reform movements for other faiths have traditionally moved- toward orginal intent, toward first principles, toward 7th century barbarism.

7by7, with your positions generally opposite mine, I applaud your dedication to finding those voices that share your optimism- really! I only hope I am wrong and you are right.

[arjunadawn]

So if the whole world was under the control of Muslims, meaning all governments 100% Muslim.

And they no longer have to pretend to be moderates or appease western standards of rights and freedoms..

What kind of Islam would we have? Would it be ISIS style Islam, Saudi style, or Turkish style.

Probably all three...

..and fighting each other in perpetuity.

Great mind experiment. And of course, VinnieK is correct, little would change. Sunni would still persecute sufi and other sects, shia and sunni would still war, those "children of the book" unfortunate to live under muslim control would still have to pay the tax and "be made to feel humiliated." What would it be like?

"Slaves being exchanged on trading blocks; women held with "the right hand" for sex slaves; significant portions of industry and economy run by slaves (it is nearly like that now in the middle east with contract slavery being filled by Sri Lankans, Fillipinas, and Hindis). There would be an immediate plunge in anything resembling enlightenment, the arts, entertainment, science, and medicine; previous traces of other faiths and artifacts would increasingly be destroyed; oil would be used as a weapon, and the international community would have little voice to protest a nuclear caliphate. When a bushing failed at a power plant the lights would go out forever; when a piece broke in a hospital that service would no longer be available..."

"The scariest environment imaginable:"

[H1w4yR1da]

And don't quote the Koran again; that excuse has well and truly been debunked!

Only in your mind. To normal people, it's quite relevant to the situation at hand.

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts removed.

[chuckd]

And in spite of all the so called moderate Muslims, the radicals are still in control of much of the Middle East and are holding the world to hostage.

Here is yet another Brit that says IS is doing just fine. In spite of protestations to the contrary, the radicals are winning the war for the minds of Islam.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

British Muslim Touts Benefits of Islamic State Rule: Tax Breaks, Slavegirls

October 14, 2014 - 4:37 PM

By Lauretta Brown

(CNSNews.com) – “Now that we have the caliphate, we can have slavegirls,” said British Islamic activist Mizanur Rahman, touting some of the benefits of the Islamic State (IS) in a series of videos obtained by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI).

Rahman, who also goes by the alias Abu Baraa, noted that enslaved women are permitted under Islamic sharia law as he addressed the question: “Can a father change the nappy of his baby daughter?”

“It’s allowed, but it’s not the normal suitable role of the father. It should be done by the mother. That is obviously part of the modesty and shyness,” he explained, adding: “If there are other women – of course it is better for them (to do it). A sister, a mother, a mother-in-law, a grandmother, an auntie – whatever, if there is somebody else it is better for them, Allah willing. Or a slavegirl.”

“Nowadays we can start to return to some of the many other rulings of Islam, which have been absent for many years," he continued. “Now that we have the caliphate, we can have slavegirls in the caliphate.”

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta-brown/british-muslim-touts-benefits-islamic-state-rule-tax-breaks-slavegirls

[giddyup]

It has been a blood-soaked religion for 1,400 years.

Obama and Cameron keep telling us Islam is a religion of peace ?

As far as I can tell, the idea is that it will be a religion of peace, once they have gotten rid of or subjugated all the unbelievers in Islam, but not until then.

Do you really believe that? Muslim tribal warfare has been going on for centuries, grudges are held forever between Shi'ites, Sunnis, Kurds etc. They aren't happy unless they are blowing somebody up.

[7by7]

And don't quote the Koran again; that excuse has well and truly been debunked!

Only in your mind. To normal people, it's quite relevant to the situation at hand.

It is relevant in as much as ISIS and similar groups use selected, out of context quotes to justify themselves. Just as those who demonise Islam , like you, do the same to justify your prejudice.

But the many Muslim scholars I have linked to and quoted from show that to be untrue, show that the Koran does not justify the actions of ISIS, show that ISIS are un Islamic.

How can you say that you are right and all these scholars are wrong?

Ooops; a question. So while I'm asking questions, I'll repeat the two previous ones you have ignored.

Why do you believe the words of an extremist, terrorist group instead of the words of the many Muslim leaders, Imams, scholars and ordinary Muslims themselves who have, as has been shown, condemned that group?

Where is your proof that the majority of ordinary Muslims support ISIS or any other extremist, terrorist group?

[Scott]

Why is it only slavegirls? Don't they allow for male slaves? What happens when the males are caught.....?