Farang/baksida

[johng]

Apparently he's a travel writer who now writes mostly about "sexuality." He's neither a linguist nor a historian

Maybe a " cunning linguist " sorry couldnt resist.

[Ijustwannateach]

The term Farang had a negative connotation until after World War II.

This due to the french trying to convert Bushism into christianity and overthrow the King. However they failed to do so....

In those days the word Farang was not ment to be a nice word.

What's your source for this?

However nowadays Thais dont mean bad with it. Nor do the Thais know why we are called Farang. If they really knew they wouldn't call us Farangs.

Well, my point was that Thais don't mean it as an insult and today it just means Caucasian. If it had a derogatory meaning in the past - which I seriously doubt - it's irrelevant now. That farang is derived from farangset which is derived from the Thai pronunciation of Francais has been explained by Bangkok Post columnist "Ayu Mongkol," Marvin Brown (AUA) and others, but the usual explanation is that French people were among the first foreigners in Thailand so Thais initially called all foreigners "Francais." But no one knows the origin of the word for sure. French missionaries trying to overthrow the king sounds a bit wild to me.

It's true. Read the book Siam And The West, see the link below:

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/9747551578...&n=52042011

It's one of my favourite books on Siamese history (Ayutthaya Era), and the writer includes quite a number of juicy bits. He makes it quite clear that the French mission intrigued to take over the port of Bangkok.

As neither side comes out looking particularly good in this piece of history, I'm not surprised that neither the French nor the Thais often discuss this incident.

Interesting bit of gossip I learned from the book: the cannon that was used to bash down the door of the Bastille during the French Revolution was a Thai ornamental cannon sent as a present via this French mission.

"Steven"

[camerata]

It's true. Read the book Siam And The West, see the link below:

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/9747551578...&n=52042011

Thanks. It looks like a good one, and it must be a serious history if Michael Smithies was involved in it.

[GoodHeart]

Excuse me..if you would do some research you will know that the 21st century Thai name for western foreigners is Farang, an abbreviation of the original Farangse - the Thai word for the French (François in French).

That is entirely false. You are are the one in need of further 'research', actually. Allow me to make it as quick and painless as possible. I suggest you point your browser to Google Groups and run a search on "etymology of Farang" and educate thyself.

[mrbojangles]

""bak ham noi" " - as i know ,it just likes older people call younger boys ,for adorable .It seems like "kid /boy/son" (not sure im not from issanland)

My Mrs thought it was funny when i told her (she can speak Issan) when i asked her to explain to me. She said it was something like "he has a banana (penis) like a young boy"

[GoodHeart]

Source: USENET soc.culture.thai list

Origin of the word "farang"

A wide-spread belief in Thailand is that the word "farang" (Caucasian)

is derived from the French word "francais". This derivation is implausible

on phonetic and historical grounds. It is in fact a popular misconception.

It is true, however, that these words have the same ultimate source.

The word is attested in various forms in languages in Europe, Africa,

the Middle East, South Asia, and Southeast Asia. It is clear that the

word orginated as "Frank" in Europe and spread eastwards along Muslim

trade routes.

Thai most likely borrowed the word from influential Muslim Persian or

Indian traders in the 17th century or even earlier. The Persian word was

"farangg". The term probably was used to refer to early Portuguese

traders and subsequently to all Europeans (ie., non-Muslims).

It is possible that the Thai word "farangset" ("French") is a blend

of the word "farang" and the French word "francais", ie., "farangset" is

actually derived from "farang", not vice versa. Certainly, the word

"farang" existed prior to, and independently of, "farangset".

The following is an edited collection of discussions on the origin of

the Thai word "farang". PART 1 includes the initial discussion on

soc.culture.thai (PART 1). I forwarded the topic to LINGUIST LIST for

information on the word in other languages (PART 2).

[Editor's note: Both articles are available for anonymous FTP as files

the-word-farang-1.txt and the-word-farang-2.txt from ftp.nectec.or.th

from directory /soc.culture.thai/SCTinfo/languages.]

Edited July 28, 2006 by GoodHeart

[camerata]

French missionaries trying to overthrow the king sounds a bit wild to me.

It's true. Read the book Siam And The West, see the link below:

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/9747551578...&n=52042011

It's one of my favourite books on Siamese history (Ayutthaya Era), and the writer includes quite a number of juicy bits. He makes it quite clear that the French mission intrigued to take over the port of Bangkok.

You're absolutely right, of course. Apart from the history books, the tale of Constantine Phaulkon and the plot is superbly told in the Falcon of Siam trilogy, recently reprinted in Thailand.

[oldsparrow]

""bak ham noi" " - as i know ,it just likes older people call younger boys ,for adorable .It seems like "kid /boy/son" (not sure im not from issanland)

My Mrs thought it was funny when i told her (she can speak Issan) when i asked her to explain to me. She said it was something like "he has a banana (penis) like a young boy"

"ฺฺBak Ham Noi" is not a look down word. I remember one Isaan construction worker the family employed called me that when I was very young.

[oldsparrow]

It's "Farang Kee Nok" - Bird shit guava (Bad breed of guava) that is bad word for westerners. It has nothing to do with Francais origin just word play from the fruit name.

"Farang Kee Nok" is similar to "White trash".