Thai Wife UK to EU via ferry without Schengen Visa

[7by7]

Basically, as the UK is not a member of the Schengen area, a UK issued residence card does not by itself allow visa free entry to the Schengen area.

However, if it clearly states that the holder's UK residence is due to their being a qualifying family member, e.g. spouse, of an EEA national then it can be used for visa free entry to all other EEA states.

Unless recently changed, UK residence cards issued under the immigration rules do not say this and so cannot be used for visa free travel to other EEA states.

Saying the card holder is the spouse of XXXXX is not enough; it must state "Family member of an EEA national."

N.B. The rights under the freedom of movement regulations are not dependent on where the couple live. If the non EEA national is the qualifying family member of an EEA national then they have the same freedom of movement rights as the EEA national; provided they are travelling with or to join them and can show the relationship.

IMHO the simplest way of doing this is to obtain a visa in advance; which should be free, require the minimum of paperwork and be issued without hassle or delay.

Remember that when entering the EEA state of which the EEA national is a citizen they will need the appropriate visa issued under that states immigration law; unless Surinder Singh applies..

[mgb]

Is a UK BRP sufficient evidence along with the marriage cert?

Only a residence card following a EEA2 application for a family member of a EEA citizen is good for visa exception.

A non EEA spouse of a UK citizen can get such a card only in a Surrinder Singh case.

Precondition to get a visa at the schengen border is a marriage certificate, passport and passport of the accompanying EEA citizen.

As far as I know the french don't play the tit for tat game. In the other direction there are tons of reports about problems with UKVI officers and EEA citizen with accompanying non EEA family members.

[falang1969]

UPDATE

 

Today, Me (UK Citizen), my wife (Thai on her 3rd UK Visitor Visa) and our kid (Thai and UK Passport) booked the ferry from Dover to Calais for a day trip (car) and my wife was denied entry to France.

 

We had marriage certs and translations.

 

Did it as a bit of an experiment to see if we could get in, after all, the ferry was only 25 quid return for the day inc car!

 

First booth that greets you in Dover is the French immigration. She asked for all 3 passports, she was not too sure what to do when she saw the Thai passport, asked if married etc and asked for something like UK Residency Card or something, kept referring to her colleague, we only had marriage certs/translations. I said we were hoping to get a visa on arrival as we are travelling together as a family with all the same surname etc etc. 

 

All very civil, asked us to pull over, had to wait a while as only 2 booths open and she had to close hers, to go and see higher officers I guess, came back and "she can not go to France".

 

Then UK immigration officers came to escort us back out the port, he advised that they (French Customs) are getting strict and have seen people refused entry even with visa's in their passports.

 

Can't be arsed to go through hassle of getting a visa from London, maybe another year! 

 

 

[ravip]

On 10/17/2014 at 4:54 PM, teatree said:

Is a Schengen visa easy to obtain and free? I know it should be but...

 

On 10/17/2014 at 8:45 PM, Richard W said:

On 10/17/2014 at 5:52 PM, 7by7 said:

As you say; it should be!

See How and where to apply for a visa?

Note that you should only apply to France if France is your main destination or you are touring and entering the Schengen area via France.

Note the illegal demand for an itinerary! I can't find a statement of how far a Thai marriage certificate falls short of being adequate evidence of being a family member for France.

 

On 10/17/2014 at 10:49 PM, Donutz said:

Indeed asking for an initiary is a violation of the direcitve, as is the demand that the passport is valid for X months. I reported various embassies to the EU Commission (Home Affairs). Got a reply back with thanked me for and listed the demands that those familiar with the directive already know (prove of marriage, traveling/joining EU spouse and IDs). Only by complaining and informing various authorities may things change in the future. Few embassies or countries seem to get it right. Though an embassy of an EU nation located overseas in country A may get it right while those in B do not.

If the embassy puts up a fight and you run out o f time then yes turning up at Dover-Calais should work. Just as I won't bother to get a UK visa for my wife. Too much hassle. If I culd go to the UK embassy here in The Hague I'd go there. THis is no longer possible so then it is much easier to go to Calais to save us all the crap from the UK authorities (online applicaiton, outsourcing blablablabla).

 

On 10/20/2014 at 5:25 AM, Jay Sata said:

UK airlines and ferries are free to deny boarding to any passenger they choose.

 

5 hours ago, falang1969 said:

UPDATE

 

Today, Me (UK Citizen), my wife (Thai on her 3rd UK Visitor Visa) and our kid (Thai and UK Passport) booked the ferry from Dover to Calais for a day trip (car) and my wife was denied entry to France.

 

We had marriage certs and translations.

 

Did it as a bit of an experiment to see if we could get in, after all, the ferry was only 25 quid return for the day inc car!

 

First booth that greets you in Dover is the French immigration. She asked for all 3 passports, she was not too sure what to do when she saw the Thai passport, asked if married etc and asked for something like UK Residency Card or something, kept referring to her colleague, we only had marriage certs/translations. I said we were hoping to get a visa on arrival as we are travelling together as a family with all the same surname etc etc. 

 

All very civil, asked us to pull over, had to wait a while as only 2 booths open and she had to close hers, to go and see higher officers I guess, came back and "she can not go to France".

 

Then UK immigration officers came to escort us back out the port, he advised that they (French Customs) are getting strict and have seen people refused entry even with visa's in their passports.

 

Can't be arsed to go through hassle of getting a visa from London, maybe another year! 

 

 

Reading through this thread one can understand how the immigration officers behave worldwide. This is something all travellers have to bear.

[Donutz]

6 hours ago, falang1969 said:

UPDATE

 

Today, Me (UK Citizen), my wife (Thai on her 3rd UK Visitor Visa) and our kid (Thai and UK Passport) booked the ferry from Dover to Calais for a day trip (car) and my wife was denied entry to France.

 

We had marriage certs and translations.

 

Did it as a bit of an experiment to see if we could get in, after all, the ferry was only 25 quid return for the day inc car!

 

First booth that greets you in Dover is the French immigration. She asked for all 3 passports, she was not too sure what to do when she saw the Thai passport, asked if married etc and asked for something like UK Residency Card or something, kept referring to her colleague, we only had marriage certs/translations. I said we were hoping to get a visa on arrival as we are travelling together as a family with all the same surname etc etc. 

 

All very civil, asked us to pull over, had to wait a while as only 2 booths open and she had to close hers, to go and see higher officers I guess, came back and "she can not go to France".

 

Then UK immigration officers came to escort us back out the port, he advised that they (French Customs) are getting strict and have seen people refused entry even with visa's in their passports.

 

Can't be arsed to go through hassle of getting a visa from London, maybe another year! 

 

 

Thanks for the feedback. The French violated your EU rights though if you provided them with passports and proof of marriage. Passports plus marriage certificate (and translation in a language they can understand) would have been enough. Perhaps her superior simple told her that you should get lost without really looking at the paperwork or not being arsed to issue a visa on the spot. Perhaps if you had asked for a denial in writing with their names under it they would have given it more thought...

 

The EU website on traveling with non EU family says:

 

Arriving at the border without an entry visa

It is always best for your non-EU family members to be well informed in advance and have all the necessary documents before starting their journey.

However, if they arrive at the border without an entry visa, the border authorities should give them the opportunity to prove by other means that they are your family members. If they manage to prove it, they should be issued with an entry visa on the spot.

If your family members are having difficulties getting a visa, you can contact our assistance services.

Entry refusal

In very rare cases, an EU country can refuse entry to you or your family members for reasons of "public policy, public security or public health".

If this happens, the authorities must prove that you or your family members pose a "genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat".

You are entitled to receive this decision in writing, stating all the grounds, and specifying how you can appeal and by when.

 

Source: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

[Jackin1960]

On 9/23/2015 at 9:39 AM, myprivate said:

Has anybody actually done this? I mean a British guy with Thai wife travelling from Dover to France by ferry, or from St Pancreas train station to Paris on Eurostar, when the Thai wife does not have a pre-issued Schengen visa.

I'm going on holiday to the UK and France with my Thai wife very soon, we were married in Thailand (not UK). If I can avoid the hassle a getting a Schengan visa for her in Thailand then it's great news. But I'm skeptical and I hate uncertainty. Anybody actually done it?

Hi Yes I ( British man) Married to a Thai lady in Thailand I was at that time a long term resident and worker in Spain. I took her to my home in Spain having got her a free visa from the Spanish embassy and on arrival in Spain got her a free residence permit (5 year). We left Spain having got a family permit from the British embassy to go to live in the UK. On arrival in the UK I got her, her NI number and residence card. We have visited France to go shopping (one day) and simply drove to Dover showed our passports with her new British 5 year residents vignette stuck in her passport. We have made several trips to France from Dover also driven down to Spain and once drove to Sweden with no problem. We always travel as a family myself wife and two children. My wife has now renewed her residency card (now plastic card lasts 10 years). We plan to visit family in Spain with our two girls this July and will simply show passports at dover and the wives UK residents card we will also have ready in a folder our Thai Marriage cert with official translated (at British embassy) and certified true copy by Thai foreign office in BKK along with all her old passports showing we have visited France before. I will also bring girls Birth certs and prof of where we both live in the UK. I do not imagine we will have any problems but there is always one jobs worth who wants to spoil a nice day I hope he is not there when we travel. 

[rasg]

Please let us know how you get on.