Intermittent Fault On 3BB Internet - runs slowly then stops

[dsfbrit]

I have the 3BB 'Premier' account which runs up to 3Mb. I have had this for 4 years now. I could change it to a faster cheaper account (it costs 1100 baht per month), but it has always been reliable and runs at 3Mb most of the time. Until recently that is.

I am trying to watch live football (365Sport), which used to play OK.

However about 4 months ago, during the world cup, the picture kept freezing due to the buffer having zero seconds of data.

I monitored the internet link via Task Manager (it is Windows 8) and watched the datarate go from 3.2 to 1.2 to 0.1 then 0.0. It did this for a few minutes then either hung or went back to 3.1 Mb. It just repeated this cycle now and then. I found that if I went off for a while and left it on pause then it built up enough data for me to watch some more of the game. Hardly ideal.

I have 2 computers, one connected via Wifi and the other via a direct ethernet cable. The problem is the same on both PC's.

Over the past 4 months I have tried (this is only a partial list):-

- replacing the ADSL router. This is a 3BB router.

- cleaning the 3BB/cable connections to my house

- removing the house phone that I never use anyway.

- removing the phone/modem splitter.

- fitting new telephone cable between ADSL router and outside cable.

- had 3BB come and inspect the setup. They have been helpful, but the problem still persists.

- had 365Sport monitoring the line during broadcast

- reinstalled the operating system on 1 PC and just installed the software needed to make 365Sport work

- when I run Microsoft Troubleshooter, it often says that there is a break between the PC and the DNS server, then the link comes back again anyway within about 10 seconds.

- etc... etc... etc...

3BB came back again last week and said I should change the thick black telephone cable between my computer and their connection point on their pole that is about 30 metres away.

I would normally think that 3BB were just doing their normal trick of blaming the equipment that they had not provided. However, these guys seemed pretty keen to solve the problem and even replaced the connections on their post outside, cleaned them up and encased the cables in plastic to stop them getting damp.

I fit the cable before and could fit another cable. The trouble is, I cannot see that a faulty cable would make the comms run in this manner. I could understand it if it were constantly running slow, maybe it would be that the the cable could be damaged or was dirty and the data needed re-transmitting all the time. However, this fault does not seem to fit into that category.

I have spoken to TOT and they could install a 13Mbit line for a monthly rate of 700 baht.

Any thoughts would be appreciated, both on the technical problem and a move to TOT.

I was considering moving to 3BB 10Mbit offering for 600 baht a month, but the engineers told me not to as it is rubbish - stick to Premier it is better was their response - fair enough

Thanks for you help

edit

The main reason I am reluctant to replace the 30 metre cable, is simply that it is not easy to access - not easy at all.

Edited October 17, 2014 by dsfbrit

[dave_boo]

Wrong thread...

Edited October 17, 2014 by dave_boo

[KittenKong]

Your problem sounds like DSL that is disconnecting and reconnecting over and over again and this could indeed be caused by a cable fault.

Forget about looking at any troubleshooters or monitors in Windows to see the status of your internet connection. Either look at the LEDs on the router (notably the DSL one which should be on permanently and should not go off or start regular pulsing), or check the router's admin status page via your web browser. Which model router do you have?

For what it's worth I have found my 3BB technicians to be totally dedicated to getting the connection working properly. I'm highly impressed.

[dsfbrit]

Kitten Kong, thanks for the reply.

The router is the NT3BB-1P.

I find it very hard to tell if the DSL light is on or not as it is so feint. At the moment it is green.

Isn't it typical, I have been sitting here for 20 minutes now and it hasn't failed at all, so I have just a green DSL light that has been on constantly.

I have not tried to log onto this new router.

For several years I had the NT3BB-1PWN router, that had Leds that were easy to see. The 3BB shop gave me this NT3BB-1P router when they swapped it over for me a couple of months ago.

I have to go out now, but will try that later on and have a look at the 'status' page.

Again, thanks for your help Kitten Kong, it is nice have someone else's thoughts as to what this problem is.

[KittenKong]

In the modem config pages you should find the log which will show how many disconnections you have had and when they happened. None is the ideal number.

The config pages will also show the up-down connection speeds, the up-down attenuation and the up-down SNR. Ideally you should have something like this attachment (though your package is limited to 3mbs as you mention so you wont get more than that for your down stream reading). My package is the 900B 1mbs/15mbs one.

High attenuation numbers or SNR readings under about 6 are generally signs of line problems. The 3BB technicians are equipped with a digital meter that should show the distance away that any major line fault is located. It showed my fault exactly 63 metres away and we paced it out and it was spot on.

[drake]

don't blame your line, router or pc - 3BB is the Problem!

[dsfbrit]

Ok, I have decided to spend the day working on this.

So I have:

- moved my PC upstairs next to the router

- plugged my pc directly into the router ethernet port

- logged into the router via web address 192.168.1.1, set date and time.

- switched everything off and on to start from 'scratch'.

- logged into router and copied the STATUS/SYSTEM log

here it is:

10/18/2014 8:3:59> netMakeChannDial: err=-3000 rn_p=80588778

10/18/2014 8:3:59> Last errorlog repeat 1 Times

10/18/2014 8:3:59> netMakeChannDial: err=-3000 rn_p=80588778

10/18/2014 8:3:59> Last errorlog repeat 1 Times

10/18/2014 8:4:9> netMakeChannDial: err=-3000 rn_p=80588778

10/18/2014 8:5:4> Last errorlog repeat 169 Times

This does not look good after being logged in for just 2 minutes.

Mind you the Traffic Stats look good after 2 minutes

:

ADSL

Transmit total PDUs

2522

Receive total PDUs

5113

Transmit total Error Counts

0

Receive total Error Counts

0

Edited October 18, 2014 by dsfbrit

[dsfbrit]

Hi Drake,

I think you are having problems with 3BB as well ! No offence, but could you please start your own thread as I am trying to get my router working and your dumps are confusing an already confusing situation. Thanks.

Oh and good luck with it - I have been 'fiddling' with this for weeks now - so know how feel !!!

Edited October 18, 2014 by dsfbrit

[sammycic]

I had very similar problems, lost connection about 20 times in one morning. Rang 3bb came out, checked modem, all good and said they were going to check the line and when the came back all working perfectly.

[dsfbrit]

Sammycic, I have had this problem for about 4 months now on and off. 3BB have been out to look at it. They have said various things as to why it does not work - rusty connection was the last theory. They cut the wire at their connection and reconnected my cable. Made no difference as an hour later the fault occurred again. I have been considering changing to TOT for a while now, so may do that as well as change the cable running to my house if I have to. At the moment though I just want to investigate and find the actual fault, just for the hell of it!!!

It just failed, this is the system log:

10/18/2014 9:18:22> Last errorlog repeat 72 Times

10/18/2014 9:18:22> MPOA Link Up

10/18/2014 9:18:22> SNMP TRAP 3: link up

10/18/2014 9:18:25> netMakeChannDial: err=-3000 rn_p=80588778

10/18/2014 9:18:34> Last errorlog repeat 16 Times

10/18/2014 9:18:34> MPOA Link Down

10/18/2014 9:18:34> mpoaChannDown: ch<0> null iface

10/18/2014 9:18:34> SNMP TRAP 2: link down

10/18/2014 9:18:34> netMakeChannDial: err=-3001 rn_p=80588778

10/18/2014 9:18:55> Last errorlog repeat 143 Times

10/18/2014 9:18:55> netMakeChannDial: err=-3001 rn_p=80588778

10/18/2014 9:19:8> Last errorlog repeat 55 Times

10/18/2014 9:19:8> MPOA Link Up

10/18/2014 9:19:8> SNMP TRAP 3: link up

10/18/2014 9:19:11> netMakeChannDial: err=-3000 rn_p=80588778

10/18/2014 9:19:15> Last errorlog repeat 2 Times

10/18/2014 9:19:15> ppp_ready: ch:805d3ee0, iface:80512d88

10/18/2014 9:19:15> SNMP TRAP 3: link up

10/18/2014 9:19:15> Accept() fail

10/18/2014 9:19:15> Accept() fail

10/18/2014 9:19:16> netMakeChannDial: err=-3000 rn_p=80588778

10/18/2014 9:19:21> Last errorlog repeat 14 Times

Edited October 18, 2014 by dsfbrit

[lomatopo]

For those with DSL, please clearly state that this is the access method.

Also, get into the model's UI and look at the DSL statistics, preferably when there is an issue with speed, and share those here.

We are looking for SNR, and line attenuation, specifically.

Example:

Update Counter : 23648

Modulation : ADSL2+

Annex Mode : Annex M

Line State : up

Lan Tx : 13601397

Lan Rx : 7811843

ADSL Tx : 3103163

ADSL Rx : 5543324

CRC Down : 0

CRC Up : 58

FEC Down : 0

FEC Up : 7026

HEC Down : 171

HEC Up : 0

SNR Up : 26.4

SNR Down : 9.2

Line Attenuation Up : 10.7

Line Attenuation Down : 8.4

Data Rate Up : 1197

Data Rate Down : 18839

Problems can arise within the modem, the wiring in the house, the wiring between the serving modem (shelf) and the outside of the home, within the shelf/port card, in the provisioning system.

[dsfbrit]

lomatopo, can you please tell me how are you getting that nicely formatted log?

I can get screen dumps or just this, which I have formatted to make some sense, as before it was just an unformatted mess!:-

Downstream Upstream

SNR Margin: 30.0 6.1 db

Line Attenuation: 18.4 10.2 db

Data Rate: 3584 725 kbps

Max Rate: 21336 725 kbps

Thanks for your help.

From what I can tell from my figures, compared to yours, my line attenuation on my link is poor.

I am going to revise my knowledge of line attenuation etc..it has been some time since I last studied all this stuff!

Edited October 18, 2014 by dsfbrit

[sammycic]

I don't if this helps but you can compare if you want

[lomatopo]

"replacing the ADSL router. This is a 3BB router."

Did you replace the modem/router with a known, good, working unit? That is to say, did you verify that it was working on a known, good line?

My best guess(es), and that is all these are based on what little information you've provided, is that the port/port card (in the 3BB DSLAM/shelf) is bad, or the physical line has one or more serious faults in the run between the shelf and your modem.

Personally, after years of supporting DSL installs here, I would pull a new line, preferably FTTx (or 15/1 DSL: 900 baht/month) and be done with it.

Edited October 18, 2014 by lomatopo

[drake]

Some points to check:

If u has Internet connection: your Router settings are OK

If the DL S/N (Signal Noise Ratio) is higher as 6dB: Line OK

My measurements are (S/N) 25dB for Download, 26dB Upload.

(Even with a 20dB/120 Ohm Line attenuator the Connection was OK)

Only what we can do is WAIT for 3BB/TTT to solve the Problem.

[dsfbrit]

drake, thanks for that, I am not sure I want to wait for 3BB or TOT to 'solve' anything as such. I intend to get as much information as I can about this fault, then maybe run a new cable into the house and if that does not solve the problem, then give them hard copy printouts of the errors etc... to prove it is not my side that is at fault. Mind you, it may well be that it is indeed on my side that the fault is, over the next few days I hope to find out.

Curiously, since I have unplugged the Wireless Router (D-Link Wireless N DIR-615) the problems seem to have almost disappeared.

[dsfbrit]

lomatopo.

The original router was a 3BB router and I changed this at their office for another 3BB router. They 'tested' it for a minute or so and it was OK. Mind you as there was an old sticky label that had been removed, I do wonder if it was in fact one that had been repaired.

I am hoping it is a not a problem with the card at the 3BB office. Proving that would be very time consuming and is why I thought if I were to change the cable from my router to their line 30 metres away, then if it did not work, I may find it easier to switch to TOT and start again.

I am revising my attenuation knowledge that I learnt all those years ago at university, I think this number is reasonable, although I cannot remember if a high SNR is good or not - oh well off to revise about SN ratios.

You suggest 15/1 DSL: 900 baht/month - who with??? I could do this with both 3BB or TOT, even with 3BB it would get me on a different server at the 3BB site.

Thanks again for your help

edit: it has only failed once in 3 hours and the speed has been a constant 3Mb. I wonder if the unplugged Wireless router is adding to this problem (Dir615 D-Link)?

I wonder if it would be worth changing the router (again), but this time for a new 3BB one with a built in Wireless router as well?

Edited October 18, 2014 by dsfbrit

[lomatopo]

"Curiously, since I have unplugged the Wireless Router (D-Link Wireless N DIR-615) the problems seem to have almost disappeared."

Curiously, is this the first mention of this bit of gear? Obviously sharing as much detail as possible about your configuration can yield better recommendations. Holding back details can be quite frustrating to some who might want to help.

I would take this device out of the network and test with a wired connection from a PC to the 3BB modem; since you've configured the 3BB modem for bridge mode you will have to reconfigure it.

"You suggest 15/1 DSL: 900 baht/month - who with???"

3BB.

It seems like your modem is re-synching, again based on what limited information you have provided, so that leads me to a fault with you modem, line, shelf, provisioning, in decreasing order.

Good luck, be sure to let us know the ultimate resolution.

Edited October 18, 2014 by lomatopo

[dsfbrit]

Lomatopo,

I did indeed mention it in Post 1.

'I have 2 computers, one connected via Wifi and the other via a direct ethernet cable. The problem is the same on both PC's.'

Mind you, if I were to share with you all the different configurations I have tried over the last weeks, it would fill many posts.

I have worked with computers (programming, low level, high level languages, hardware, even networks in the RS232 days and early 802.3 stuff) all my working life.

I have therefore gathered a lot of bits of kit over the years. I have recently added a wifi router for my wife and her friends, who are staying for a few days..

I however normally connect my PC's via the ethernet cables that I have installed around the house.

As the wifi router is normally not installed anyway, I find it hard to understand why it would make such a significant difference to a problem that has been recurring for several months now. Maybe just a coincidence, but an interesting one.

I have just tried putting all of the kit I would normally run and the wifi router back on the system and it has has not failed for about an hour.

And curiousier and curiouser.

You say, go for the 3BB option for 900 baht a month - I think I will take your advice. Cheaper than what I have at the moment and faster.

Just one question - is it RELIABLE???

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Edited October 18, 2014 by dsfbrit

[Rooo]

Hi Drake,

I think you are having problems with 3BB as well ! No offence, but could you please start your own thread as I am trying to get my router working and your dumps are confusing an already confusing situation. Thanks.

Oh and good luck with it - I have been 'fiddling' with this for weeks now - so know how feel !!!

As the OP asked Drake, please start a new thread.

Thanks.

[JetsetBkk]

It all started one dark and stormy night...

No, really it did!

Have a look at this post of mine:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/742375-rainy-season/?p=8156384

During the storm my Internet went down and came back. And then every time it got a bit windy, I lost my connection for a few minutes.

To summarize, I checked my cables, tried a spare modem, 3BB tried another modem, they even re-wired the street right up to the pole outside my house. No change.

I then told them - for about the 5th time - that the problem started during a storm, so maybe they should check the connection in my roof space.

Which they did, and solved the problem.

.

Edited October 18, 2014 by JetsetBkk

[dsfbrit]

I have been fiddling about with this problem all day. I would like to thank you all for your advice, it has been most helpful.

To be honest, I have been 'lazy' with this over the previous months and should have logged onto the 3BB router and made more effort to isolate the fault to assist 3BB to resolve this fault..

The trouble is, those of you who have been involved with (some of) the more arrogant 3BB engineers and staff, will know what a depressing task this can be.

In this case though, I think they may actually be right and there is a problem with my setup as I found the following which I will list as it may help someone else with a similar problem.

1. I have 2 computers in the house, one upstairs and one downstairs. One is a Dell Desktop and the other a Lenovo Laptop.

2. They are both connected to an ethernet cable, I don't use wifi access.

3. I have a 3BB ADSL router that has its single ethernet port connected to the ethernet cables on the 2 computers via the 4 ethernet ports on the back of the D-Link wireless router. Quite simply I have the 3 ethernet cables from PC1, PC2 and the ADSL router plugged into the back of the D-Link wireless router. So although I never use the Wireless router as a wireless device, it is actually available for use.

4, This weird 'Heath Robinson' setup of mine has I believe been causing at least some of the problems, as I have now got it set up so that the 3 ethernet cables from PC1, PC2 and the ADSL router AND the D-Link wireless router all plug into the back of a D-Link fast ethernet switch.

5. Since setting it up like this the problems seem to have gone away. Well I have had no problems since I did this.

I will probably change to the 3BB service as suggested by lomatopo, I will have a think about that.

Lomatopo, Drake, Sammycic, Kitten Kong, thanks very much for taking time to make your comments on my problem.

I hope it works tonight - as I want to watch the football

Thanks again

Dave

Edited October 18, 2014 by dsfbrit

[dsfbrit]

JetSetBkk, oh dear, I feel your pain. The trouble is we have all become so dependent on our computers and the internet that losing it seems to screw up a major part of our life -well it does for me anyway. I find I sometimes get really frustrated with the people trying to fix it - especially some of the ruder 3BB engineers who talk to me as if I am an idiot. In this case though they may have been right and I am stupid as it appears it may have been my fault all along. What I cannot understand though, is why I did not spot this problem before. I am sure that when I was testing the system last month that I plugged my PC directly into the ADSL router port and the problem persisted.

I wonder if 3BB have moved me to another port on their server ?

What 3BB service are you using? Is it any good ?

Edited October 18, 2014 by dsfbrit

[lomatopo]

You have to put the 3BB device in Bridge mode, connect the ethernet uplink port on the 3BB device to the ethernet WAN port on your D-Link router. Then you have to configure the PPPoE details on the D-Link.

Re-start everything.

Have you been doing this?

Edited October 18, 2014 by lomatopo

[ChrisY1]

Power supply...Internet service providors.....everything is not stable here in Thailand.........

[dsfbrit]

Lomatopo

Thanks for that. I had the router fixed to the wall, so I could not see the actual ethernet ports on the D-Link 615 wireless router. I did indeed have the ethernet cable from the 3BB ADSL router going into the WAN port on the D-Link 615 wireless router. I actually set this up using the D-Link Internet wizard several years ago. It worked fine for a couple of years and I only stopped using it a while ago, as I prefer using the ethernet cables in the house. Just my preference.

I won't be using the ethernet cables again though. I have ripped them out. I noticed that when I connected one of the ethernet cables, that the data rate dropped to 0.3 Mbit for a few seconds and then the datarate that had been a pretty constant 3Mbit was all over the place. So obviously the cable run had a problem. So after much fault finding, I have removed the ethernet cables from around the house, plugged in the ADSL 3BB router and connected it to the D-Link 615 wireless router as you have mentioned and everything is working fine.

It is much neater as well without the ethernet cables.

So thanks very much for your help.

Dave

edit: as an aside, one of the reasons I was using the ethernet cables, is because I used to use the Dreambox 500s in several rooms around the house and they had to use ethernet cables. When I stopped using the dreamboxes a couple of years ago, I used the cables for my computers as in theory ethernet via cables are/can be faster and more reliable than wifi. Yes I know, that is a debatable point for sure. Anyway I wont be using them in the future!

Edited October 19, 2014 by dsfbrit

[dsfbrit]

ChrisY1 - that is what I love about Thailand, as unlike in the UK where I come from, over here the speed cameras and all the other motorist and general security and surveillance equipment so loved by the UK government, doesn't work over here either.

Edited October 19, 2014 by dsfbrit

[lomatopo]

I did indeed have the ethernet cable from the 3BB ADSL router going into the WAN port on the D-Link 615 wireless router.

And you set the 3BB device to BRIDGE MODE? And re-configured the D-Link with your 3BB PPPoE credentials?

Now my best guess is that your cabling is probably OK, but you may not have your modem/router properly configured. But who knows, as you appear to be changing just about everything, intermittently and randomly

Are you still experiencing problems? If so, try to get DSL stats when you experiencing issues - take the D-link out of the network, use the 3BB device in standard mode, with a single wired ethernet connection to a PC.

[dsfbrit]

lomatopo, I have not been changing everything intermittently and randomly.

I am sadly very logical in all things I do - I wish I were more 'random' !

I wanted to find out once and for all just what worked for sure and if it was needed.

It is why I allocated the whole of Saturday to it and in advance posted on TV and other technical threads what I was doing and asked for advice.

So after much laborious fault finding, I now have:

- checked everything works by isolating each piece of equipment and cabling

- removed the suspect ethernet cables from my house.

- I have just the 3BB router and D-Link 615 wifi router to provide access to the internet for both my computers and my wife's friends mobile phones.

Everything has worked fine without any failures for about 18 hours.

I have not bored people with all the details of my testing as it would be just that - boring.

So thanks to you and others on TV and other forums, I have solved my problem.

I was able to watch the football last night for 5 hours and not a glitch.

I don't now want to play with the routers any more as they are working and I intend to post a thread to see if your other suggestion that I replace the current 3BB service with the 13Mb/1Mb service for 900 baht is as good as it sounds.

If I do I will buy the 3BB ADSL router with the WIfi router built in and remove my D-Link wifi router altogether.

Do you know how reliable the 3BB 13Mb/1Mb service is?

Thanks again for your help.

Dave

Edited October 20, 2014 by dsfbrit