Thaksin gained most from coup, Chalerm claims

[DoDoey]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

The people have the democratic right to protest.

When a govt is trying to pass an amnesty bill for criminals and corrupt politicians because their leader is both they are especially entitled to do so.

The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy.

"The people have the democratic right to protest."

True, except when their protest includes physically preventing other citizens from exercising their right to vote (the core of what democracy means).

The protests were a fundamentally non-democratic--actually, anti-democratic--in aim and action.

No.

What suthep did in blocking elections was wrong.

The protests themselves were a democratic expression of anger at the arrogant lords and ladies of misrule that was the last PT govt.

Oh give it a rest, Bluespunk. You can't back peddle out of this one. The right to protest and the definition of democracy are two different things. The ability to protest is a "right" in some countries. it is a right of the people of the United States, which is also a Democracy. Note the word also. A democratic nation may or may not allow it's people to protest, and still be considered a democracy. China allows forms of protest, but that doesn't make it a democracy.

[Local Drunk]

@DoDoey

The US is a Constitutional Republic. It is not a Democracy!

[moe666]

This will all take place within the next 90 days as well surprised he left that part out. Anyway just remind the farmers who paid them for their rice PTP doesn't have a chance.

[tbthailand]

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"There was no alternative to the previous forced change in government, this was recognized by the people who could make the required decisions for the sake of the country"

You really believe that don't you - there could be no other reason? 12 "successful" coups and still some people believe that "this one will be different"...................... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

Actually fabie, nobody yet knows if it will or won't be different.

But never mind, it seems to make you happy to be as negative as possible.

And we all know why.

It is already clear that this coup is - fundamentally - no different from the past coups.

So, yeah, nobody knows what tomorrow will bring, banality at it's best, but the blueprint is the same.

And that is the key point.

The blueprint is the same - care to expand on that?

taking both your points together....

Since the revolution, the military has taken control to direct the future of Thailand in ways that enhance its own power and wealth. Same as 2014.

Since at least the 50s, military coups have been justified as necessary to 'remove a corrupt government' - same as 2014.

While the details of Thai coups have naturally been different, the fundamental underpinnings have remained the same. So have the superficial justifications.

[tbthailand]

@DoDoey

The US is a Constitutional Republic. It is not a Democracy!

The USA is a democracy.

[rubl]

@DoDoey

The US is a Constitutional Republic. It is not a Democracy!

The USA is a democracy.

wiki gives this definition

"Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens are meant to participate equally – either directly or, through elected representatives, indirectly – in the proposal, development and establishment of the laws by which their society is run."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

Now looking for the definition of 'eligible' and the meaning of "laws by which their society is run" following which we'll try to fit the Thai version of democracy from when we still had it into this definition. Only a matter of square pegs into round holes I think.

In the mean times it would seem that a criminal fugitive is said to have profited most from the coup. Now that should surprise a few people

Edited October 19, 2014 by rubl

[Bluespunk]

@dodoey

You said

Oh give it a rest, Bluespunk. You can't back peddle out of this one. The right to protest and the definition of democracy are two different things. The ability to protest is a "right" in some countries. it is a right of the people of the United States, which is also a Democracy. Note the word also. A democratic nation may or may not allow it's people to protest, and still be considered a democracy. China allows forms of protest, but that doesn't make it a democracy.

My response

Absolute nonsense, ridiculous position to take. No country that does not allow protest is a democracy. It may have the window dressing but it is not democratic.

I have no idea what you are drivelling about with ludicrous accusations of back peddling (other than you don't know what it means) as I have remained consistent in my position on the right to protest.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Bluespunk

[englishoak]

I'm no fan of military dictatorships

I'm also no fan of the pretend-democracy that PT sells.

What is rather alarming is that supporters of PT are quoting this rambling idiotic alcoholic and brandishing his quotes like a sword of truth!

Forget the messenger. It's the message that resonate with many who feel that coups only harden the resolve of the people to have distrust of the military intention and have not done any difference to the political landscape 18 times over.

I disagree, military coups are like wife beating husbands, each time they come back the people tell themselves this time it'll be different.

Thats about it yes.....

Thais also have no interest in history or learn well from mistakes, given its never anyones fault for anything here its always the "other one" no wonder they fall for the same old BS every time.

Edited October 19, 2014 by englishoak

[Baerboxer]

Too late when a convicted criminal is back,causing problems.If the govt,is useless and corrupt,it is up to the people to take them out.

Thaksin was convicted on a conflict of interest charge, not a crime. Since the coup, no ministers in the previous government has been convicted for corruption. The people did not take him out; it was by a military coup. Nothing in your posting is correct. Think for yourself; don't just follow the crowd.

Stop being silly Eric. Thaksin knowingly broke the law, got caught, prosecuted and convicted. Then he jumped bail and became a fugitive.

Not a criminal - yeah sure, if it make you happy. And not the only member of his family with a conviction either.

[daboyz1]

Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government.

At least he got one thing right. Thaksin would still be running the show via his "clone" if it wasn't for that 4 AM amnesty bill. Yingluck was PM for well over a year with no protests of any sizable number. I'm glad it happened the way it did. It proved once again that Thaksin only cares about Thaksin. His sister, and Thailand as a whole, are a very distant second and third on his priorities list.

[daboyz1]

Stop being silly Eric. Thaksin knowingly broke the law, got caught, prosecuted and convicted. Then he jumped bail and became a fugitive.

Not a criminal - yeah sure, if it make you happy. And not the only member of his family with a conviction either.

Not only that, he has more serious charges lined up if he ever returns.

[Denim]

BANGKOK: -- Ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra is the winner of the military coup and Pheu Thai Party will end up winning the next general election, former deputy PM Chalerm Yoobamrung has told party colleagues close to him.

Wrong. The whole point of the current reforms is to enable the impeachment of sufficient PT politicians to ensure they couldn't run a noodle stand , much less the country.

Besides, the good general has already deferred elections to sometime , later, never so nobody is going to ' win ' anything anytime soon. The next change of government will come with another coup.....according to established tradition.

After all, everyone knows Democracy doesn't work in Thailand ......... and everyone knows why.

[rametindallas]

This general is doing more good for Thailand than anyone has ever-

He is destroying its image and reputation to such an extent he is turning all the country slowly Red.

By the time Bangkok crashes and businesses vanish and the middle class Thai/Chinese Gold store owners lament their Protests which started almost a year ago-

This Junta would have Galvanised the entire country *(against it

Even right wing elitist mouth pieces like the NATION newspaper are starting to raise questions about the course this THAI_TANIC is on.

Which is extraordinary in itself

Delusional, much?

[rametindallas]

Prayuth didn't do too badly - got to be PM, go on telly, give out posts to his pals.

His real reward will come when he is kicked upstairs to a Privy C position.

You mean like the last coup leader, Sonthi?

[rametindallas]

Why does Chalerm even make these statements? "Chalerm believes there are only two scenarios that could lead to a Pheu Thai defeat: Thaksin dies or quits politics."

Didn't Thaksin assert that he was finished with politics? Or, is was this a lie?

If his lips were moving, it was a lie.

[rametindallas]

Because of the coup, Thaksin must reward Prayut with 12 cartons of Petrus [a pricey wine].

I'm sure every effort is being made to bribe PM Prayuth the same as with General Sonthi. Proof of Thaksin's success at bribing General Sonthi was that General Sonthi ended up joining Thaksin's puppet party (how is that possible?). I hope PM Prayuth is made of sterner stuff. Sonthi will go down in history as a lame footnote; if PM Prayuth stays the course, he will be well regarded in the future history.

[jdinasia]

I expect the next constitution to block anyone sentenced to 2 years in jail to be forever blocked from politics. I also expect that any party acting as a proxy for a banned politician to be banned along with its leadership.

[DoDoey]

@DoDoey

The US is a Constitutional Republic. It is not a Democracy!

You are correct, but you see my point?

Edited October 19, 2014 by DoDoey

[englishoak]

Because of the coup, Thaksin must reward Prayut with 12 cartons of Petrus [a pricey wine].

I'm sure every effort is being made to bribe PM Prayuth the same as with General Sonthi. Proof of Thaksin's success at bribing General Sonthi was that General Sonthi ended up joining Thaksin's puppet party (how is that possible?). I hope PM Prayuth is made of sterner stuff. Sonthi will go down in history as a lame footnote; if PM Prayuth stays the course, he will be well regarded in the future history.

Don't count your chickens.

[JAG]

When Thaksin's passport is withdrawn as a criminal & his sister, along with her cronies, are impeached/convicted of negligence & dereliction of duty, then, Thailand will freely move fwd.

Otherwise, stagers like Chalerm will continue to wallow in "days of future past" as the song goes!

Won't happen, they will not risk the backlash.

[Robby nz]

When Thaksin's passport is withdrawn as a criminal & his sister, along with her cronies, are impeached/convicted of negligence & dereliction of duty, then, Thailand will freely move fwd.

Otherwise, stagers like Chalerm will continue to wallow in "days of future past" as the song goes!

Won't happen, they will not risk the backlash.

You believe the threats will work then do you ?

Could you give us a reason why an illegally issued passport should not be withdrawn, keeping in mind the numerous (ignored) requests by the OAG for Yingluck to explain why it was issued.

Could you give reasons why those who have broken the law should not face justice, other than that those whose duty it is to uphold the law have been threatened.

[tx22cb]

When Thaksin's passport is withdrawn as a criminal & his sister, along with her cronies, are impeached/convicted of negligence & dereliction of duty, then, Thailand will freely move fwd.

Otherwise, stagers like Chalerm will continue to wallow in "days of future past" as the song goes!

Won't happen, they will not risk the backlash.

You believe the threats will work then do you ?

Could you give us a reason why an illegally issued passport should not be withdrawn, keeping in mind the numerous (ignored) requests by the OAG for Yingluck to explain why it was issued.

Could you give reasons why those who have broken the law should not face justice, other than that those whose duty it is to uphold the law have been threatened.

Great question - "why an illegally issued passport should not be withdrawn".

The Generals have been in absolute martial law power without a Constitution for months - why have they not ordered this to be done?

Perhaps the answer is that the General (or his advisers) is/are wiser than some of us.

[bristolgeoff]

the thaksin period is over maybe,the people know that all the tea money mp,s may never get in again.we can only see what happens in the coming year,will be interesting to see now

[EnglishJohn]

Red-shirts seem to have no idea how this man single-handedly makes them all look like gullible idiots who believe anything they are told by primates who belong hundreds of years in the past.

[chrisrazz]

If I recall correctly, the Red Shirts did not want a blanket amnesty. They wanted the international criminal court to investigate the 2010 debacle. Why they changed this stance one can only speculate.

[fab4]

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"There was no alternative to the previous forced change in government, this was recognized by the people who could make the required decisions for the sake of the country"

You really believe that don't you - there could be no other reason? 12 "successful" coups and still some people believe that "this one will be different"...................... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

Actually fabie, nobody yet knows if it will or won't be different.

But never mind, it seems to make you happy to be as negative as possible.

And we all know why.

Ah the ubiquitous "we all know". Well I for one, don't know, so why don't you enlighten me - unless, of course, what you want to say is against forum rules?

[Equalizer]

Seems to me most of the ex pats on here have also been brainwashed with the totalitarian takeover attitude to media freedom on political views. When a government in the UK wins a general election (democratically i may add) do you see them go and arrest all the previous party MPs and swear them all into silence. Seems like we once had 10s of thousands of Expats here and now we have 10s of thousands of little Hitlers. The man is making a political statement, this is democracy folks let us get back to our core values and get of this dictatorial band wagon.

It seems you're mistaking a coup for an election. When was the last time a government here won an election and arrested any MPs?

Seems like there was no likes for your comment fellow. Maybe because everyone else understood mine.

[whybother]

Seems to me most of the ex pats on here have also been brainwashed with the totalitarian takeover attitude to media freedom on political views. When a government in the UK wins a general election (democratically i may add) do you see them go and arrest all the previous party MPs and swear them all into silence. Seems like we once had 10s of thousands of Expats here and now we have 10s of thousands of little Hitlers. The man is making a political statement, this is democracy folks let us get back to our core values and get of this dictatorial band wagon.

It seems you're mistaking a coup for an election. When was the last time a government here won an election and arrested any MPs?

Seems like there was no likes for your comment fellow. Maybe because everyone else understood mine.

Just because no one 'liked' it, doesn't make it wrong.

How can you compare an elected government in the UK to a coup junta in Thailand?

[Equalizer]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

But at the cost of Thaksin being acquitted. I like it a lot how it went, because of this amnesty we got the junta. Its the end of the PTP and we will see next election. Even if they win (i still think that is probable) the new constitution will have so many new checks and balances that its not as profitable to be in government as it once was.

So everone is a winner except Thaksin.

But it is good to know that finally even the core of the PTP admits that the junta came to be because of Thaksins selfishness.

The Junta was always going to come to be, amnesty bill or not.

That it took so long for them to finally find an issue to latch on to and exploit is a credit to the way Yingluck performed as PM.

Soon, things will change in this country in a very, very big way.

It is only a matter of time until a true, non-compromised constitution is written and accepted by the people via a referendum.

BTW, the amnesty bill was more an olive branch from the Reds to the Yellows than it was a get out of jail free card for Thaksin (remember Thaksin's sole conviction is extremely dubious whereas the 90 innocents slain in the streets was very real). The bill was an attempt to bring the decade long struggle to an end as peacefully and magnanimously as Mandela ended apartheid with his non-recriminating Truth and Reconciliation process.

Its fun to read the red apologies.

Of course the junta would not be here without the massive street protest caused by the amnesty of that criminal. Taksins convictions are real and there are a lot more waiting for him. They should trial him in absentia for those or make sure there is no statue of limitations on them.

The 90 deaths were a result of Thaksins black shirts (we see more and more about this now) and Abisith and Suthep wanted a trial because there is no way they will be convicted for this. Unlike Taksin who hides like a coward for all his charges. (p.s. no love here for Suthep he is a tool that served his purpose bringing down the PTP)

The bill was only for Thaksin.. Abisith did not want to be included. The normal reds would have been freed by now out of jail and such.. But no Thaksin needed to ruin it all. Actually they are rotting in jail because of Thaksin.

Suthep was a tool who made more money than Thaksin ever did out of his palm oil refining scam. Billions between a few families.

[Equalizer]

Seems to me most of the ex pats on here have also been brainwashed with the totalitarian takeover attitude to media freedom on political views. When a government in the UK wins a general election (democratically i may add) do you see them go and arrest all the previous party MPs and swear them all into silence. Seems like we once had 10s of thousands of Expats here and now we have 10s of thousands of little Hitlers. The man is making a political statement, this is democracy folks let us get back to our core values and get of this dictatorial band wagon.

It seems you're mistaking a coup for an election. When was the last time a government here won an election and arrested any MPs?

Seems like there was no likes for your comment fellow. Maybe because everyone else understood mine.

Just because no one 'liked' it, doesn't make it wrong.

How can you compare an elected government in the UK to a coup junta in Thailand?

Maybe because the leader is now the prime minister!! HELLO is there anyone there?