Manchester City

[Abrak]

We havent talked about Tevez for a while. My guess is that they will fine him six weeks wages, keep for six weeks and then sell him off cheap in January. And I for one and going to be pissed off if they get screwed again in that deal.

Here is a little intro from the Guardian about the almost deal with Corinthians in the summer.

Now what we know about Corinthians with absolute certainty is that they dont have the money to buy Tevez - their total revenues are about the size of Everton.

Secondly we are know they got together with Kia Joorabchian financed by Boris Berevsky bought a 51% stake in Corinthians made Kia head of recruitment who then spent a fortune selling in players like Tevez that he had an economic interest in.

Joorabchian hates to be called an agent because they take 5% on transfers he likes to play bigger - own players etc. He introduced Thaksin, recommended Cook to Thaksin, he manages Mark Hughes. I am sure Bojangles knows all the City stories until they kicked him out.

But ever since he sold his economic interest in Tevez for a massive fee to Hughes, it seems quite remarkable how far Tevez has gone to destroy it - homesick, give up football, retire early, insult everyone. Oh well we will see.

[mrbojangles]

We havent talked about Tevez for a while.

Have you not been reading the last dozen or so posts?

[mrbojangles]

Surely there must be only one outcome in all this? shouldn't there be!

I just found this article. I didn't realise that odds were so much in favour of the players. The current law is ridiculous and is probably the reason City are not rushing into a decision.

Article:- http://bleacherreport.com/articles/888739-man-city-v-carlos-tevez-why-city-could-save-football-from-itself

This is possibly the biggest story in football at this moment in time, but it may well be a story that will echo throughout football for decades to come.

Just as the case of journeyman Belgian footballer Jean-Marc Bosman reshaped how transfers were conducted and how contracts were structured, so could the Carlos Tevez saga have a profound impact on the movement of players.

What the situation between City and Tevez has brought into focus is the power that players have in the game and how little value there is for clubs in a typical contract.

Here are some interesting facts that show how clubs are almost powerless to manage players:

• In England a club can only fine a player two weeks wages without agreement from the PFA.

• The absolute maximum fine for a player is six weeks wages.

• If a player refuses to play and is sacked then he is free to sign for another club immediately.

• If a player is refused the chance to train with his team (but paid) he can sue the club.

To most people the situation where there is very little downside to unacceptable behaviour is plainly wrong and is indicative of how players are divorced from the real values of the wider society.

So as Manchester City navigate their way through the minefield of employment law and contract issues, it seems impossible that a club would ever choose to sack a player

If a player were to have his contract cancelled, then the club's investment (in Tevez's case of about £30 million) in the player purchase would be lost and the player could freely negotiate an improved contract with a new club.

If a club were to keep a player and punish him by getting him to train away from the first team—with the juniors or reserves or even alone—then the player could (and in all likelihood would) sue the club for restraint of trade. That would happen even if he were still in receipt of his full wage.

So for the player it is win-win—if he wants to force a move, he simply needs to behave in a manner that could be considered gross misconduct.

But Tevez has brought this situation from the shadows and into the bright light of public gaze, and it may well lead to FIFA getting involved and changing the rules of the sport.

There quite simply has to be an option for clubs to sanction players for gross misconduct that hurts the player and not just the club, and the answer may well come in the form of a FIFA ban.

The suggestion is that if a player were found guilty of gross misconduct, his club would advise FIFA of the facts, and, if FIFA agreed, a worldwide football ban could be handed down. Crucially the sacking club would retain the players' registration.

This would mean that a player could not sign for any other club until a suitable financial package is agreed to with the sacking club, but during the ban the player would not be paid.

There are some indications that FIFA would not limit any ban to the length of the player's contract but could insist that the ban remain in place until the club that sacked the player agrees on a compensation package, either with the player himself or with another club.

Although none of this is in place to change the outcome between City and Tevez, it may well be that Tevez will be remembered more for empowering clubs in their dealings with players than anything he achieves in a playing sense.

And I, for one, think that is something that we may well need to thank him for.

[bkkjames]

Good article Mr BJ; if I were your owner I would bite the bullet and sat him in reserves until his contract expires. Expensive lesson but he is one owner that can afford it.

[MrRed]

Sooo! what are they going to do then? I think in reality City know these laws and have looked into them already regarding Tevez,There has to be a statement from the club today or tomorrow before the restart of the Premier League lets all hope he gets whats coming and Mancini can move forward with the clubs backing 100% any other way and Mancini will be left looking a right plonker and his position will be undermined considerably.

[alfieconn]

If a club were to keep a player and punish him by getting him to train away from the first team—with the juniors or reserves or even alone—then the player could (and in all likelihood would) sue the club for restraint of trade. That would happen even if he were still in receipt of his full wage.

So taking the above a step further, if a player is dropped from the first team and told to sit in the stands, then surely that is " restraint of trade "

[mrbojangles]

Good article Mr BJ; if I were your owner I would bite the bullet and sat him in reserves until his contract expires. Expensive lesson but he is one owner that can afford it.

I think I'd do the same james and get shut of him in the next transfer window.

[mrbojangles]

Sooo! what are they going to do then? I think in reality City know these laws and have looked into them already regarding Tevez,There has to be a statement from the club today or tomorrow before the restart of the Premier League lets all hope he gets whats coming and Mancini can move forward with the clubs backing 100% any other way and Mancini will be left looking a right plonker and his position will be undermined considerably.

I think City will take the "diplomatic" approach. They will back Mancini behind the scenes but keep Tevez till the transfer window. Mancini will know this is the best for the club to get money back (for Mancini to spend). There is no avoidance of the FFP even if our owner can afford it.

[MrRed]

Yep agreed after the lull in proceedings i think they are going to be very certain about there actions and a quiet word with Mancini is needed for the club to come out of it without losing money on him in the long-term.

Lets hope FIFA look into that rules loophole.

Can see the Tevez ruling becoming important now that they are on stupid amounts of money,crazy that he could actually sue the club at the end of it all!

Edited October 12, 2011 by MrRed

[mrbojangles]

If a club were to keep a player and punish him by getting him to train away from the first team—with the juniors or reserves or even alone—then the player could (and in all likelihood would) sue the club for restraint of trade. That would happen even if he were still in receipt of his full wage.

So taking the above a step further, if a player is dropped from the first team and told to sit in the stands, then surely that is " restraint of trade "

It does seem that we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[mrbojangles]

Lets hope FIFA look into that rules loophole.

Absolutely. This could affect all clubs and is definately not good for the game.

[MrRed]

Just reading you might need Tevez at the weekend and the for the derby game

[mrbojangles]

Just reading you might need Tevez at the weekend and the for the derby game

How ironic that'll be. Roy of the Rovers wouldn't write a script like this as it would be too unbelievable.

[MrRed]

City's statement in full read: "The Club has been conducting an investigation into the events of 27 September at the Allianz Arena.

"The Club has now reached a stage in its investigation where it has concluded that there is a case for Carlos Tevez to answer of alleged breaches of contract.

"Accordingly, the Club has informed him that he will face disciplinary proceedings and the hearing will be convened shortly.

"Carlos will be required to report to Roberto Mancini for training on Thursday."

So lets forget about it all now eh?

[bkkjames]

Hillarious; pass the hot potatoe back to city

[mrbojangles]

Hillarious; pass the hot potatoe back to city

Why is it hilarious james? The "hot potato" never left our hands, so how can it be passed back? As we have found out above, it's nigh on impossible to sack a player nowadays. This is the kind of difficulties that ALL clubs face if found in a similar situation, from the Telegraph:-

WHAT PART OF TÉVEZ’S CONTRACT MIGHT HE HAVE BREACHED?

Clause 3.1 of the standard Premier League contract states: “The Player agrees, when directed by an authorised official of the Club, to participate in any matches for which he is selected to play for the Club.” As City manager, Roberto Mancini would be regarded as an authorised official of the club, so any refusal by Tévez to play would see him in conflict with the terms of his contract.

WHAT IS THE USUAL PUNISHMENT FOR SUCH A BREACH?

A two-week fine is the maximum allowed under Professional Footballers’ Association rules, although this can be extended to six weeks’ wages in exceptional circumstances on approval of the PFA. If a fine of two weeks’ wages is regarded as insufficient, clubs can request PFA support for an extended fine. Refusing to play in one game may not be sufficient to give City grounds to dismiss Tévez for gross misconduct.

UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES CAN A BREACH OF CONTRACT LEAD TO SACKING?

Clause 10 of the players’ Premier League contract gives the club the right to terminate the deal if a player is guilty of gross misconduct, but this is defined as “serious or persistent” conduct, including failure to comply with the terms of the contract. Thus, a first offence, unless regarding as extremely serious, is unlikely to lead to dismissal.

WHAT IS THE MOST LIKELY PUNISHMENT?

A fine of six weeks’ wages, totalling at least £1.2 million, combined with a further suspension is the likeliest outcome should Manchester City prove that Tévez refused to play as a substitute against Bayern Munich.

Sacking the Argentine forward is regarding as ‘excessive’ by the PFA and City could struggle to find legal justification for such a move.

Despite being suspended by City for the last weeks, Tévez remained on full pay during the investigation into the allegations against him.

[bkkjames]

Hillarious; pass the hot potatoe back to city

Why is it hilarious james? The "hot potato" never left our hands, so how can it be passed back? As we have found out above, it's nigh on impossible to sack a player nowadays. This is the kind of difficulties that ALL clubs face if found in a similar situation, from the Telegraph:-

WHAT PART OF TÉVEZ'S CONTRACT MIGHT HE HAVE BREACHED?

Clause 3.1 of the standard Premier League contract states: "The Player agrees, when directed by an authorised official of the Club, to participate in any matches for which he is selected to play for the Club." As City manager, Roberto Mancini would be regarded as an authorised official of the club, so any refusal by Tévez to play would see him in conflict with the terms of his contract.

WHAT IS THE USUAL PUNISHMENT FOR SUCH A BREACH?

A two-week fine is the maximum allowed under Professional Footballers' Association rules, although this can be extended to six weeks' wages in exceptional circumstances on approval of the PFA. If a fine of two weeks' wages is regarded as insufficient, clubs can request PFA support for an extended fine. Refusing to play in one game may not be sufficient to give City grounds to dismiss Tévez for gross misconduct.

UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES CAN A BREACH OF CONTRACT LEAD TO SACKING?

Clause 10 of the players' Premier League contract gives the club the right to terminate the deal if a player is guilty of gross misconduct, but this is defined as "serious or persistent" conduct, including failure to comply with the terms of the contract. Thus, a first offence, unless regarding as extremely serious, is unlikely to lead to dismissal.

WHAT IS THE MOST LIKELY PUNISHMENT?

A fine of six weeks' wages, totalling at least £1.2 million, combined with a further suspension is the likeliest outcome should Manchester City prove that Tévez refused to play as a substitute against Bayern Munich.

Sacking the Argentine forward is regarding as 'excessive' by the PFA and City could struggle to find legal justification for such a move.

Despite being suspended by City for the last weeks, Tévez remained on full pay during the investigation into the allegations against him.

I mean it's like they are saying "it's not our problem - you deal with it" : washed their hands of it so to speak.

Anyways, bench him the reserves, probably could do a whip around from all teams to help offset the salary (not that you need it).

[MrRed]

Roberto Mancini claims he 'doesn't know' whether Carlos Tevez will play for Manchester City again.

City were again staying tight-lipped on Tevez amid the ongoing disciplinary case involving the Argentine's alleged refusal tp play against Bayern Munich in the UEFA Champions League last month.

A City official had outlined the club's position and warned the press conference would be terminated if questions about Tevez were asked.

"We have been unable to allow questions about Carlos Tevez today, either to Carlos in general, his alleged conduct on the night in question, or the ramifications of that conduct," said the official.

"Questions also in relation to his future at the club are strictly off limits today and won't be answered. Breaches of this will result in the press conference being cancelled."

Unsure

However, Mancini was still asked whether Tevez had a future with the club.

"I don't know," responded the Italian.

Mancini did indicate Tevez, who returned to training on his own on Thursday, was not in his plans when he addressed how many strikers he had available for the clash with Aston Villa on Saturday.

"We have three strikers at this moment," said Mancini, who has vowed not to take any risks with Sergio Aguero, who has been suffering from an adductor muscle injury.

"If you stay there for four years, you are strong enough to be at every club.Mancini keeping mum on Tevez

Mancini also insists he is not feeling any pressure, having been made immune to such issues during his four years at Inter Milan.

"If you speak with Rafael Benitez, with Marcello Lippi, with Leonardo, Inter Milan is a strong team for any manager," noted Mancini.

"When you go to another country, you can work with different players in different situations, in a different culture."I don't have any problems. I have had experiences in my life. Why should I have any pressure?"

Better manager

Mancini also feels he has improved as a manager since arriving at City two years ago.

"I am a better manager now," continued Mancini.

"Every manager can improve. I am sure that I have improved in England."

[mrbojangles]

I found out tonight a mate of mine suffers from vertigo. Personally, I like it up here

[smokie36]

I found out tonight a mate of mine suffers from vertigo. Personally, I like it up here

Vertigo is overpriced....give me a river cruise any day......oops....

[mrbojangles]

Quite interesting from the Guardian

Maybe it's time to take Balotelli seriously

"They had a great laugh on the Match of the Day sofa. Alan Hansen wouldn't include Mario Balotelli in his side "when it comes to the crunch" (which side is this and when are their crunch games?) while Alan Shearer "guarantees" the Italian will get sent off further down the line.

Balotelli may partly have himself to blame for being treated like a pantomime character but there comes a point when his on-field actions are what he must be judged on. After all, Wayne Rooney is likely to get himself sent off again at some point in the future but for some reason that's not funny.

The Italian opened the scoring against Aston Villa with a fine improvised overhead kick to score his fourth goal in as many games. On top of that Balotelli generally made a nuisance of himself throughout at the Etihad, twice drawing saves from Shay Given with curling efforts from the inside-left channel.

But because he put his finger to his lips in front of Villa fans who were jeering him for losing his footing and returned to celebrate his goal in the vicinity of the away section he is seen as something of a liability. A former Chelsea manager used to do that kind of thing but was often remarked to "be a breath of fresh air".

What would genuinely be a breath of fresh air would be if Balotelli's increasingly assured displays become the focal point rather than his portrayal as some sort of El Hadji Diouf meets Krusty the Clown figure."

[MrRed]

I found out tonight a mate of mine suffers from vertigo. Personally, I like it up here

Enjoy it for a week

[mrbojangles]

I found out tonight a mate of mine suffers from vertigo. Personally, I like it up here

Enjoy it for a week

Bit cockey that isn't it. That's why you are affectionately know as RAGS

[MrRed]

[smokie36]

Bit cockney that isn't it. That's why you are affectionately know as RAGS

Corrected your post.

[smokie36]

Little bit of luck at the end but we all need that from time to time....still in with a decent shout....

[mrbojangles]

Little bit of luck at the end but we all need that from time to time....still in with a decent shout....

Yeah, we are starting to get as stuffy as United have been for years.

To be honest, we let them score a stupid goal early on but we dominated the whole game after that.

[MrRed]

Did not see it but a mate called me from UK and said that City where not at the races at all and will need to improve to get further in the group,he is a big City fan!

Edit to say out of the group!

Edited October 19, 2011 by MrRed

[JacknDanny]

Did not see it but a mate called me from UK and said that City where not at the races at all and will need to improve to get further in the group,he is a big City fan!

Edit to say out of the group!

I think its a bit strong to say we were not at the races at all!!!

We didnt play particularly well but we had at least 4 or 5 clear cut chances that we missed out on. Villareal had 2 chances, 1 they scored!

We were by far the better team in the first half, and although more equal in the second half, we still created more chances.

I think your mate has been spoiled because of the way we have basically dominated every game in the Premiership.

[mrbojangles]

Did not see it but a mate called me from UK and said that City where not at the races at all and will need to improve to get further in the group,he is a big City fan!

Edit to say out of the group!

I think its a bit strong to say we were not at the races at all!!!

We didnt play particularly well but we had at least 4 or 5 clear cut chances that we missed out on. Villareal had 2 chances, 1 they scored!

We were by far the better team in the first half, and although more equal in the second half, we still created more chances.

I think your mate has been spoiled because of the way we have basically dominated every game in the Premiership.

Albeit I agree overall we were the best team. Several of our lads did have a stinker. Dzecko was useless, Nasri wasn't on form, Silva was poor in relation to his normal exceptional self and De Jong was a tad rusty. The comfort I get though, is that all teams will suffer these types of performances but previously we would have missed out. This squad now has a belief and will go at it till the very last second. Quite an unusual feeling for a City fan.