Koh Tao murders: Thai police 'not embarrassed' by UK probe

[smedly]

"Nevertheless, Pol.Lt. Prawut added that Thai police will conduct any additional investigations per request from the British officers to "clarify any issues they don't understand."

so if the uk police requests the dna from Nom Sod,RTP will provide it?

from the way the OP is worded that does not seem to be the case, it appears the UK can ask for the DNA to be retested but will play no role in the testing

If I was the legal council for the accused I would be asking for samples of the original DNA from the bodies so that I could carry out my own tests, the UK authorities should have carried out their own autopsies on the bodies once they were returned to the UK then all they would need are DNA samples from the accused, they could also exhume the body with the parents permission and retest

I've mentioned before but I read that there are in fact no places in Thailand that have internationally recognised credentials for doing DNA testing - is this correct?

There is no clear statement as to how and where the DNA tests were carried out - there was a statement from the police that the DNA found on the victim matched the accused

Further to this - the head of the department of forensics science in Bangkok made a statement questioning why they were not tasked on this high profile case from the start - in fact it seems they have never been involved which in itself is rather troubling - and they wonder why questions are being asked

and the reason this case is getting so much interest is the fact that who ever did this left behind irefutible DNA evidence that makes it very easy to prove without doubt who was involved and a rather vague statement by police that the DNA matched the suspects

The key here is that nobody believes the police that were involved for various reasons including the raft of miss information conflicting reports and other behind the scenes goings on like people being offered money to testify - the local head man and his brother and son involvement etc etc more holes than a pin cushion

There is just something not right going on here and most people with an ounce of grey matter know it

[JohnTrove]

Anybody know for sure why this case is getting so much attention? The fact that the PM Cameron requested personally makes me that the victim's family must be very connected politically. I have never seen a murder of a farang get this much focus. But it does sound like the court case is pretty set in stone and they don't even say if any new evidence can be brought to the court by these investigators... Also thinking that maybe these investigators are already here secretly, not yet revealing themselves to the authority.

Lost for words......better stick your head back in your beer batter.

"connected politically" what a ridiculous thing to say!! Have you not seen the work the campaigners have done to get this spoken about?!!

[johnlandy]

"The Thai police haven't lost any credibility"

Correct, as they have none to lose

I cannot find the appropriate words to adeqately decscribe the worlds disgust at this sham of an investigation.

One poster wrote he would be communicating with all the travel agents and his friends advising them of the unsafe status of the islands in the south of Thailand.

BUT, this same attitude and response is played out anywhere in the realm whenever a like event occurs.

[DennisF]

If there's a Columbo "gotcha" moment that destroys the RTP's case, the Junta may fall.

Huge stakes here.

It may be one domino of many... but yes, it could force a few allegiances out in the open. I think there is a fair amount of disenchantment with the regime amongst Thai educated young people. The 93% approval is BS.

Thats a terrible slur, they took a sample of nearly 1000 people, a representative sample, doubtless :-)

[stephen terry]

These cops coming over are "not investigating" they are "observing". Why don't you people get that! No new investigation......review what they did that is it. The court will decide if the RTP did it right or not. If they collected the DNA from the rake and the victims correctly and sent it for analysis and then later found subjects matching that DNA it is all over. Forget the alleged torture....they should have had their b@lls kicked in anyway.

Not true. They can only observe the trial, but it doesn't exclude them from examining the investigation findings. Read the diplomatic statements. That could include liaising with the defence lawyers in the sanctuary of the Myanmar Embassy. That could include independent verification of DNA and an examination of the allegations of torture. Behind the veneer of diplomacy many things could happen without any of us knowing exactly what, but whether the Thai PM would accept the Brit report if it contravenes the submitted evidence given to the prosecutor, that's another matter altogether.

As to your last sentence, I agree that the real killers ought to have had their b@lls kicked in anyway.

[mojorison]

Moreover, the Thai police are no longer involved in the investigation anymore because they have already finished the case file and sent it to the public prosecutor, Pol.Lt. Prawut said.

So the police consider this case closed?

There is "0" chance of additional suspects?

These two Burmese kids did the hole thing by themselves?

I would never consider bringing my family to that island, most likely there are still murderers/rapists on that island.

I will be going to every single travel website I can comment on and warn people of the danger they are in if they go to KT, as well as KP and Samui just for the fact they are in close proximity. I would encourage everybody to do the same.

As soon as you place anything detrimental on Trip adviser ...they remove them Defeats the object really.

Negligent behaviour on behalf of trip advisor. Will they be held accountable for the next death on the island then for failing to allow appropriate warnings. I will no longer be referring to trip advisor anymore.

1. there are never "enough" statements posted, are there...!?

2. someone shall count and document the new posts made and if/when removed (yes, fighting for justice is a bitter one, this tedious work is just one tiny example...)

3. the "metrics" gathered above can make interesting, yet to "some" rather unwelcome reading, once posted on sites where they can not so easily "cleanse the world of misdeeds..."

4. of course, that can/should be accompanied by "friendly" communication, giving them a chance to explain their position, because "intimidation" or "harassment" is NOT what is intended, but what might be intended is allowing justified public opinion to be heard...

It's just one of many such things which needs to be in the arsenal to be and stay being heard...

yes, it's tedious, laborious, never sure of the outcome/effect, we could all live without, but...

TA is not a forum. If you haven't been there (Koh Tao), your opinion counts for nothing. You must have been to the places involved to voice an opinion on TA. If you want to "get the word out", you need to try Thorntree, or another "forum" style travel website. TA don't give a toss about "fighting for justice", it is not what they do.

[Morakot]

"The Thai police haven't lost any credibility"

It's a little bit more complicated than that!

The issue is a systemic fault in that the Public Prosecutor in Thailand has no authority soever to investigate independently of the police if necessary. Unlike in many jurisdictions around the word (e.g. US, Japan, Germany, Korea, Indonesia), the Thai Public Prosecutor cannot act as checks and balances to police investigation.

This has been highlighted and criticised on numerous occasions.

No53_28PA_Kesornsiricharoen.pdf

Edited October 20, 2014 by Morakot

[jpeg]

it will be a "battle of wills"... what they want and how they will proceed until ALL the way through is totally clear from their openly displayed conduct... they will come up with new stories and possibly pull new rabbits out of the hat on a daily basis, obstructing any "cooperation" where ever they can, no doubt in my mind...

it will all depend how determined the British delegation will be and how much support they have back home to be allowed, WITHIN the bounds of professional conduct of course, to "put up a fight"... there will be absolutely no meaningful addition to the Thai official statements without it ...

I don't envy the officers coming down here... wish them luck and hope they have the resolve, determination and support they will SURELY need...

Perhaps you mean well, but I believe you're fresh off the boat. The World and his wife already knows what happened and who are and aren't guilty

[Soiyamoto]

Maybe one of the reasons is these 2 victims were young , and what the killers did to that beautiful girls body has stirred emotion in people. The public want this sorted and deem determined to not let it slip away and be forgotten like the girl in i think chaing mai a few year ago

[WhizBang]

The arrival of UK authorities will not affect the credibility of the Thai police in any way, a spokesperson of the Royal Thai Police said in a press conference yesterday.

Very true. You must first HAVE credibility, in order to lose it.

[TTom911]

"Nevertheless, Pol.Lt. Prawut added that Thai police will conduct any additional investigations per request from the British officers to "clarify any issues they don't understand."

so if the uk police requests the dna from Nom Sod,RTP will provide it?

from the way the OP is worded that does not seem to be the case, it appears the UK can ask for the DNA to be retested but will play no role in the testing

If I was the legal council for the accused I would be asking for samples of the original DNA from the bodies so that I could carry out my own tests, the UK authorities should have carried out their own autopsies on the bodies once they were returned to the UK then all they would need are DNA samples from the accused, they could also exhume the body with the parents permission and retest

I've mentioned before but I read that there are in fact no places in Thailand that have internationally recognised credentials for doing DNA testing - is this correct?

There is no clear statement as to how and where the DNA tests were carried out - there was a statement from the police that the DNA found on the victim matched the accused

Further to this - the head of the department of forensics science in Bangkok made a statement questioning why they were not tasked on this high profile case from the start - in fact it seems they have never been involved which in itself is rather troubling - and they wonder why questions are being asked

and the reason this case is getting so much interest is the fact that who ever did this left behind irefutible DNA evidence that makes it very easy to prove without doubt who was involved and a rather vague statement by police that the DNA matched the suspects

The key here is that nobody believes the police that were involved for various reasons including the raft of miss information conflicting reports and other behind the scenes goings on like people being offered money to testify - the local head man and his brother and son involvement etc etc more holes than a pin cushion

There is just something not right going on here and most people with an ounce of grey matter know it

it will be hard to impossible for external investigators to produce new, even conclusive evidence (unless they are REALLY REALLY determined (and supported accordingly). That will be the big trouble, All sorts of official "reports" and "documents, will be put in front of them, all plastered with countless official stamps...

Having said the above, what I would be very certain though is, that the British police will not have much problems to find the countless flaws in the process and results...

Assuming the above would be the situation and there is not a "lucky break everyone is hoping for, then it really comes down to how much political/diplomatic will would be there to PRESS for more NEW investigation... That will/would be Phase 2 of the battle...

"They" of course very much count on that everyone will be tired, frustrated, "diplomatically tamed" and disappear...

Many "if's and when's"... This case can turn 180 degree on a daily basis for a while... VERY hard to predict the course and outcome...

Edited October 20, 2014 by TTom911

[bitterbatter]

Anybody know for sure why this case is getting so much attention? The fact that the PM Cameron requested personally makes me that the victim's family must be very connected politically. I have never seen a murder of a farang get this much focus. But it does sound like the court case is pretty set in stone and they don't even say if any new evidence can be brought to the court by these investigators... Also thinking that maybe these investigators are already here secretly, not yet revealing themselves to the authority.

You obviously don't know very much.

The ridiculous botched and deliberately sabotaged investigation of the Kirsty Jones murder / rape in Chiang Mai resulted in several questions in the House of Commons over several years and South Wales Police coming to Thailand on several occasions.

If you know jack and can't be bothered reading up, you would be best sticking to your afternoon beer and stop making ill-informed, callous comments.

CALLOUS COMMENTS? <deleted> are you referring to? I was saying that I believe the case was set in stone, just that the Thai police are saying the police evidence won't change. Yes I didn't know about this, I was not in Thailand or England for the past few months, and there was zero news about it there. I just saw this news and this is the first report I had read on it. NOw I have read about it for the last two hours and understand it was a result of the petition. SO EXCUSE ME, for asking a simple question about how the actual court case will be executed. Because if there is a cover-up and it gets exposed, then it puts into question policemen integrety, and the system of police investigation and use of DNA and forensic techniques.

I hope a clear conclusion is made at the very least of the two suspects' innocence.

As for Kristy Jones, I actually lived in that very guesthouse she was murdered in, a year and a half later. It was my first time to Thailand and I am from the US. I heard a little about the murder, but none of the thais who knew about it really could explain to me what had happened. There was no Thaivisa forum, and no news of this in the US media.

[WhizBang]

Anybody know for sure why this case is getting so much attention? The fact that the PM Cameron requested personally makes me that the victim's family must be very connected politically. I have never seen a murder of a farang get this much focus. But it does sound like the court case is pretty set in stone and they don't even say if any new evidence can be brought to the court by these investigators... Also thinking that maybe these investigators are already here secretly, not yet revealing themselves to the authority.

Well connected, really. They are not. The UK are responding to an outcry from social media.

Correct. I absolutely hate facebook and the like, but this time it has been a plus.

As for boots on the ground already. Yes, I would not be surprised.

[stevehaigh]

hope they found a couple of police who can speak, or at least understand Thai, then keep that knowledge to themselves.

[TTom911]

Anybody know for sure why this case is getting so much attention? The fact that the PM Cameron requested personally makes me that the victim's family must be very connected politically. I have never seen a murder of a farang get this much focus. But it does sound like the court case is pretty set in stone and they don't even say if any new evidence can be brought to the court by these investigators... Also thinking that maybe these investigators are already here secretly, not yet revealing themselves to the authority.

Well connected, really. They are not. The UK are responding to an outcry from social media.

Correct. I absolutely hate facebook and the like, but this time it has been a plus.

As for boots on the ground already. Yes, I would not be surprised.

agreed... both... it (the latter) would brighten my day and put a smile on my face......

Edited October 20, 2014 by TTom911

[DennisF]

These cops coming over are "not investigating" they are "observing". Why don't you people get that! No new investigation......review what they did that is it. The court will decide if the RTP did it right or not. If they collected the DNA from the rake and the victims correctly and sent it for analysis and then later found subjects matching that DNA it is all over. Forget the alleged torture....they should have had their b@lls kicked in anyway.

Uneducated troll alert

[heyexile]

If there's a Columbo "gotcha" moment that destroys the RTP's case, the Junta may fall.

Huge stakes here.

Or the perfect opportunity for The Military to clear out the RTP and with it the red shirt BIB

RTA RTP hand in glove. Who appointed Police Commissioner General Somyot . Yes, the good general PM Prayuth. He headed this perfect investigation and he and PM signed off publicly on it.Large para-military police force had to be on board for the coup and subsequent repressions reforms.

[Oziex1]

<deleted> That scene of those guys being made to strum a guitar in that sickening pantomime makes my blood boil and I request air power be diverted from Iraq to make a bombing run on this damned Island. just one please!

Unbelievable

[TTom911]

it will be a "battle of wills"... what they want and how they will proceed until ALL the way through is totally clear from their openly displayed conduct... they will come up with new stories and possibly pull new rabbits out of the hat on a daily basis, obstructing any "cooperation" where ever they can, no doubt in my mind...

it will all depend how determined the British delegation will be and how much support they have back home to be allowed, WITHIN the bounds of professional conduct of course, to "put up a fight"... there will be absolutely no meaningful addition to the Thai official statements without it ...

I don't envy the officers coming down here... wish them luck and hope they have the resolve, determination and support they will SURELY need...

Perhaps you mean well, but I believe you're fresh off the boat. The World and his wife already knows what happened and who are and aren't guilty

well, not just soooo fresh off the boat... just 8+ yrs, without asking I've seen more than I want... and "read a few things"....

The issue at hand now is not what "the world and his wife" knows... helping "the world and his wife" to get a second side to the story is almost "yesterday's job", that has been achieved, luckily... the question is what has to happen AFTER "the world and his wife" got to know and how to make sure they don't fall asleep...

If you are "not too fresh" here in TH and can come up with some productive suggestions, that would be of interest, I guess

Edited October 20, 2014 by TTom911

[stephen terry]

"Nevertheless, Pol.Lt. Prawut added that Thai police will conduct any additional investigations per request from the British officers to "clarify any issues they don't understand."

so if the uk police requests the dna from Nom Sod,RTP will provide it?

from the way the OP is worded that does not seem to be the case, it appears the UK can ask for the DNA to be retested but will play no role in the testing

If I was the legal council for the accused I would be asking for samples of the original DNA from the bodies so that I could carry out my own tests, the UK authorities should have carried out their own autopsies on the bodies once they were returned to the UK then all they would need are DNA samples from the accused, they could also exhume the body with the parents permission and retest

I've mentioned before but I read that there are in fact no places in Thailand that have internationally recognised credentials for doing DNA testing - is this correct?

There is no clear statement as to how and where the DNA tests were carried out - there was a statement from the police that the DNA found on the victim matched the accused

Correct.

Further to this - the head of the department of forensics science in Bangkok made a statement questioning why they were not tasked on this high profile case from the start - in fact it seems they have never been involved which in itself is rather troubling - and they wonder why questions are being asked

Correct.

and the reason this case is getting so much interest is the fact that who ever did this left behind irefutible DNA evidence that makes it very easy to prove without doubt who was involved and a rather vague statement by police that the DNA matched the suspects

Supposition which may or not be factual.

The key here is that nobody believes the police that were involved for various reasons including the raft of miss information conflicting reports and other behind the scenes goings on like people being offered money to testify - the local head man and his brother and son involvement etc etc more holes than a pin cushion

Correct.

There is just something not right going on here and most people with an ounce of grey matter know it

Correct, but hardly surprising.

While clearly something is not right about this investigation from day 1, we can only speculate what evidence to support the various crime charges was submitted to the prosecutor.

[Krataiboy]

• Koh Tao murders: Thai police 'not embarrassed' by UK probe

Obviously not yet reached the relevant part of their anatomy.

[Phuketboy]

The people who initially set up the first petition, should now set up another, getting the UK investigators to get the DNA from that little s%^t bag Nom Sod (physically). That little chicken sh&t who ran away like a scared little mouse and who the police never DNA tested. They also need to get Sean to come in and give a proper statement without hiding anything. I firmly believe he knows something and the blood splatter on his guitar suggest he was there. As I have mentioned many many times on here the UK don't need the Thai police to check the DNA in Hannah against that of the accused. They already have Hannah's body back in the UK and the family of the accused can provide DNA by simply giving to the UK investigators, a hairbrush or toothbrush that the accused has used. The UK investigators don't really need the Thai police for anything.

[Fullstop]

Thai police 'not embarrassed' by UK probe

Yeah...right.

[jpeg]

it will be a "battle of wills"... what they want and how they will proceed until ALL the way through is totally clear from their openly displayed conduct... they will come up with new stories and possibly pull new rabbits out of the hat on a daily basis, obstructing any "cooperation" where ever they can, no doubt in my mind...

it will all depend how determined the British delegation will be and how much support they have back home to be allowed, WITHIN the bounds of professional conduct of course, to "put up a fight"... there will be absolutely no meaningful addition to the Thai official statements without it ...

I don't envy the officers coming down here... wish them luck and hope they have the resolve, determination and support they will SURELY need...

Perhaps you mean well, but I believe you're fresh off the boat. The World and his wife already knows what happened and who are and aren't guilty

well, not just soooo fresh off the boat... just 8+ yrs, without asking I've seen more than I want... and "read a few things"....

The issue at hand now is not what "the world and his wife" knows... helping "the world and his wife" to get a second side to the story is almost "yesterday's job", that has been achieved, luckily... the question is what has to happen AFTER "the world and his wife" got to know and how to make sure they don't fall asleep...

If you are "not too fresh" here in TH and can come up with some productive suggestions, that would be of interest, I guess

If we're going to play the 'who's been here longest' game, I have ten years on you. And 'the world and his wife' need no further evidence as to how the haha, judiciary works in Third World Countries, This one in particular for obvious reasons. And because of the nature of this latest show of domestic barbarity will give this horror show/Disneyland the bodyswerve they deserve. Apart from the mongers. You one?

[stephen terry]

The people who initially set up the first petition, should now set up another, getting the UK investigators to get the DNA from that little s%^t bag Nom Sod (physically). That little chicken sh&t who ran away like a scared little mouse and who the police never DNA tested. They also need to get Sean to come in and give a proper statement without hiding anything. I firmly believe he knows something and the blood splatter on his guitar suggest he was there. As I have mentioned many many times on here the UK don't need the Thai police to check the DNA in Hannah against that of the accused. They already have Hannah's body back in the UK and the family of the accused can provide DNA by simply giving to the UK investigators, a hairbrush or toothbrush that the accused has used. The UK investigators don't really need the Thai police for anything.

They will need them to reopen the investigation, which is like tying to break into Fort Knox, IF they produce counter-evidence to support the B2's innocence. And if that scenario is factual and is reported to the Thai PM, I wouldn't bank on any agreement.

[Jonmarleesco]

'... will not affect the credibility of the Thai police ...' A little difficult to affect something that has often proven so elusive.

'... Thai police will conduct any additional investigations per request from the British officers to "clarify any issues they don't understand.".' Or that the Thai police overlooked.

[stephen terry]

The people who initially set up the first petition, should now set up another, getting the UK investigators to get the DNA from that little s%^t bag Nom Sod (physically). That little chicken sh&t who ran away like a scared little mouse and who the police never DNA tested. They also need to get Sean to come in and give a proper statement without hiding anything. I firmly believe he knows something and the blood splatter on his guitar suggest he was there. As I have mentioned many many times on here the UK don't need the Thai police to check the DNA in Hannah against that of the accused. They already have Hannah's body back in the UK and the family of the accused can provide DNA by simply giving to the UK investigators, a hairbrush or toothbrush that the accused has used. The UK investigators don't really need the Thai police for anything.

They will need them to reopen the investigation, which is like trying to break into Fort Knox, IF they produce counter-evidence to support the B2's innocence. And if that scenario is factual and is reported to the Thai PM, I wouldn't bank on any agreement.

[jpeg]

it will be a "battle of wills"... what they want and how they will proceed until ALL the way through is totally clear from their openly displayed conduct... they will come up with new stories and possibly pull new rabbits out of the hat on a daily basis, obstructing any "cooperation" where ever they can, no doubt in my mind...

it will all depend how determined the British delegation will be and how much support they have back home to be allowed, WITHIN the bounds of professional conduct of course, to "put up a fight"... there will be absolutely no meaningful addition to the Thai official statements without it ...

I don't envy the officers coming down here... wish them luck and hope they have the resolve, determination and support they will SURELY need...

Perhaps you mean well, but I believe you're fresh off the boat. The World and his wife already knows what happened and who are and aren't guilty

well, not just soooo fresh off the boat... just 8+ yrs, without asking I've seen more than I want... and "read a few things"....

The issue at hand now is not what "the world and his wife" knows... helping "the world and his wife" to get a second side to the story is almost "yesterday's job", that has been achieved, luckily... the question is what has to happen AFTER "the world and his wife" got to know and how to make sure they don't fall asleep...

If you are "not too fresh" here in TH and can come up with some productive suggestions, that would be of interest, I guess

If we're going to play the 'who's been here longest' game, I have ten years on you. And 'the world and his wife' need no further evidence as to how the haha, judiciary works in Third World Countries, This one in particular for obvious reasons. And because of the nature of this latest show of domestic barbarity will give this horror show/Disneyland the bodyswerve they deserve. Apart from the mongers. You one?

[stephen terry]

The people who initially set up the first petition, should now set up another, getting the UK investigators to get the DNA from that little s%^t bag Nom Sod (physically). That little chicken sh&t who ran away like a scared little mouse and who the police never DNA tested. They also need to get Sean to come in and give a proper statement without hiding anything. I firmly believe he knows something and the blood splatter on his guitar suggest he was there. As I have mentioned many many times on here the UK don't need the Thai police to check the DNA in Hannah against that of the accused. They already have Hannah's body back in the UK and the family of the accused can provide DNA by simply giving to the UK investigators, a hairbrush or toothbrush that the accused has used. The UK investigators don't really need the Thai police for anything.

They will need them to reopen the investigation, which is like trying to break into Fort Knox, IF they produce counter-evidence to support the B2's innocence. And if that scenario is factual and is reported to the Thai PM, I wouldn't bank on any agreement.

[Aceicol]

For me personally this isn't a UK police v Thailand police thing, more a case of humanity. Whoever killed the two of them need to be locked up for other peoples safety.

The UK police may be able to investigate areas that the local police feel uncomfortable doing, I agree that that isn't the way it should be, but that seems to be the case. On the other hand the UK police have made loads of mistakes over the years, they don't have any sort of magic wand and will find it very tough to solve the case, especially after most of the important clues will have been long ruined.