Koh Tao murder suspects retract confessions: 'interpreter assaulted us'

[Sviss Geez]

Stop believing that the embassy never does anything .

They have quite cleverly managed to get access for thr British police without annoying anyone in thailand. They have made their statements about the problems with the case quite firmly and diplomatically.

What would you like them to do? Send in thr SAS?

Not my country nor my business, but wasn't the "access" granted only after the General met with Cameron in UK,

without any involvment of the UK embassy?

Do you seriously think that the UK government and the British embassy have no connection and have not been giving each other advice? Ridiculous. By definition the embassy has to have been involved.

[Carrerakiss]

WhizBang, on 22 Oct 2014 - 09:59, said:

Quote

The "interpreter" initially used by police turned out to be a local food vendor of Rohingya descent, not a professional.

Just like the police, not professional at all.

This is all over the BBC this morning. More of Thailand's reputation in tatters. Not that Thailand had a good reputation to begin with.

This 'perfect job' by the RTP is seriously starting to unravel. How long before we see some RTP charged with coverup and destroying evidence? Follow the money. See who paid out and received large sums of money since Sept 15.

I wonder, if this is what the RTP consider a "perfect job" what would they consider a "poor job." You also have to wonder how many "innocent" people have been jailed. in the past.

The Thai police said the case was complete <snip> in Thai, they never said it was perfect, that was poor translation.

So is it complete? And if so, why has it been sent back to them again? Different word, same meaning.

[Sviss Geez]

Not my country nor my business, but wasn't the "access" granted only after the General met with Cameron in UK,

without any involvment of the UK embassy?

They didn't "meet"

the Thai PM was summoned

No he wasn't, they met and had a discussion at an international summit.

[JLCrab]

Yeah, I agree with the posts above that Nom Sod doesn't look like a killer, but he very well could have been involved, hence the rush off the island. I figure it was Nom Sod and the other two in that photo that Sean took, the AC Bar mngr and the cop....they would have to stay on the island, but Nom Sod is better off skedaddling to BKK. It adds up.

Did you guys see the photo of the kid who detonated bombs at the Boston Marathon a few years back, did he look like a killer?

What does a killer look like?

Billy the Kid -- who allegedly killed over 20 men before being killed at the age of 21.

Edited October 22, 2014 by JLCrab

[stephen terry]

I'm not sure that's correct. Despite the not-guilty plea and retraction of the confession, I think that the prosecutor will still be able to introduce the confessions into evidence, although he would have a big challenge demonstrating the reliability of the confessions because the defense counsel would counter them in the way I described in my comment. I might be wrong, but unless the judge decides the confessions are so unreliable that they are not admissible into evidence, they will still be part of the case.

This is one objective of the Brit police. To examine the confession methodology, and allegations of coercion and torture. I would like to think that the prosecutor would realise he could not submit this evidence as being sound beyond all reasonable doubt.

[Sviss Geez]

The British Embassy and/or Mark Kent are next to useless and have done very little other than mouthing a few platitudes.

The British Police were allowed to be involved only AFTER the Thai PM met Cameron, that had nothing to do with Mark Kent or the British Embassy.

Quite honestly, the UK Govt and Embassies need to stop pussyfooting around and being so diplomatic that they achieve next to nothing. A little more forcefulness would be good to see occasionally. A little more give and take instead of the current just taking things (mostly) lying down in fear of upsetting the "host" nation.

"The British Police were allowed to be involved only AFTER the Thai PM met Cameron, that had nothing to do with Mark Kent or the British Embassy"

This is such a ridiculous statement, the British embassy here is the UK government's representative and has to be involved.

Even more ridiculous is your implied suggestion that you are familiar with what goes on between the British Prime Minister and his Ambassador here.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Sviss Geez

[stephen terry]

# 132 it isn't a Not Guilty plea until said in court when asked " how do you plead ? " At best it's an indication they may plead Not Guilty and accused do change their mind before they actually appear.

I'm sure the BIB and ' interpreter ' have whispered n their ear they can avoid the death penalty by co-operating including a Guilty plea.

Now these confused young men may have lawyers saying they can get them off in a trial.

It's a nightmare.

Yes, agreed. My post should have indicated that it would seem improbable that the retracted statement would be changed back to admittance of guilt in court. But stranger things have happened...

[stephen terry]

Yeah, I agree with the posts above that Nom Sod doesn't look like a killer, but he very well could have been involved, hence the rush off the island. I figure it was Nom Sod and the other two in that photo that Sean took, the AC Bar mngr and the cop....they would have to stay on the island, but Nom Sod is better off skedaddling to BKK. It adds up.

Did you guys see the photo of the kid who detonated bombs at the Boston Marathon a few years back, did he look like a killer?

What does a killer look like?

Billy the Kid -- who allegedly killed over 20 men before being killed at the age of 21.

Ah, now there's a thought...

[atyclb]

DNA has likely been faked, and destroyed as this would implicate the police tampering.

Expect the two boys to be released soon and the real sweating on Kho Tai to begin,

They have one week to let the kids go

to obtain a so called contrived dna match police would have had to submit samples from each of the burmese along with other samples of burmese dna though labeling it as being from the deceased tourist(s)

not saying its impossible for the 2 burmese to have done it but given the story, the inconsistencies, the refusals to give dna samples, doctored videotapes, et, etc it seems highly unlikely. additionally thao;ands leading forensic pathologist US residency trained dr. porntip has stated publicly the forensics was bungled thus essentially = dna = moot point.

reportedly a former high ranking police official on a tv talk show believed nearly50 of the prison population was framed.

[Sviss Geez]

The UK police are only here to observe.. made clear by the PM after he had words with the police who literally had pissed and shitted themselves when they heard the PM initially would allow the uk police to come in and help investigate and do independent DNA tests..

I don't see why the UK couldn't do some independent tests with the parents of the scapegoats... If the scapegoats truly are guilty the UK DNA samples from the victims bodies should be very similar to those of the scapegoats parents..

"...the police who literally had pissed and shitted themselves..."

Literally? Where was that reported?

[heyexile]

Has more come out on the DNA testing? I remember originally they said it was sent to Singapore for the analysis. The reason I ask, is that means some of the original DNA might still be in the Singapore lab outside of the BIBs reach, that would give a true sample to test against.

Wouldn't hold out too much optimism. Singapore could only have what RTP labeled and sent.

Or not sent at all?

Sat 20th Sept: Gen Somyot announces Asian suspects rape British tourists, following DNA testing by Thai police forensics dept.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/asian-suspects-rape-english-tourist/

Sun 21st Sept: Gen Somyot announces no FBI but tests WILL be done in Singapore.

http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/koh-tao-murders-dna-tests-will-be-done-in-singapore

[pb1936]

After dna verification has been confirmed by the UK ( if it should become so ) there will be perhaps a solid case of guilt on the part of the accused. However, proof of rape, in itself, is surely not proof that the accused committed murder, without other conclusive evidence.

[Thai at Heart]

Stop believing that the embassy never does anything .

They have quite cleverly managed to get access for thr British police without annoying anyone in thailand. They have made their statements about the problems with the case quite firmly and diplomatically.

What would you like them to do? Send in thr SAS?

Not my country nor my business, but wasn't the "access" granted only after the General met with Cameron in UK,

without any involvment of the UK embassy?

The foreign office in London called in the Thai ambassador

Pretty rare occurence. So do you, think london just thought that up all on their own. Cameron wouldn't even know who the thai Pm is.

Its caller diplomacy. Get what you want by causing as few problems as possible.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Caspersfriend]

There are always those who think they know better what version of the 'truth' should be fed down to the populace:

[Sakeopete]

I have a bad feeling these two boys will not live long enough to go to trial. The RTP is probably already cooking up a planned double suicide/accident to make this case disappear.

[SolePurpose]

I see the usual suspects are out in force with their usual anti thai tirades.

Happy to live out their life in a country they despise so much. Mind bogglingly ironic but most of the morons can't see beyond the cheap beers and even cheaper carnal comforts.

The uk sends police help when in its own backyard law and order, public safety etc still remains one of the top 3 concerns of the average Brit.

Recreational drug use , alcohol abuse and the violence fuelled by these scourges grows by the day. Victims of these scourges continue to go unheard, despite the presence of the wonderful British bobby... Spare me this unequivocal claptrap!

Lord Lucan remains at large, Stephen Lawrence's disgraceful murder was whitewashed and UK police institutional racism continues unchecked.

But hey keep watching your reruns of ' only fools and horses', wipe away the tears when you hear Jerusalem at last night of the proms.

Pitiable small minded hypocrites the lot of you

Are you serious?

Maybe people that live here want the country to advance forward not backwards, so this country will be safer for their children and grandchildren. There is nothing wrong with trying to make the country that you live in a better place.

You're just trolling.

[Frank James]

From Post # 17:

"What would you like them to do? Send in the SAS?"

That falls under the heading of Scenes We'd Like to See!

Late at night a light transport plane, painted in black primer with no markings, lands at Don Muang, and taxies to an unused hangar. A crew of six generic looking whiteguys, each carrying a light duffle, wearing casual civilian clothes, files off the plane and pile into a waiting Land Rover with Embassy plates and blacked out windows. Inside the UK Embassy compound, the crew gets briefed. It's Andy McNab, Bear Grylls, Ray Stevenson, Jason Statham, Harry Windsor, and Daniel Craig.

They're ready for anything, and This time, it's PERSONAL!

Edited October 22, 2014 by Frank James

[Anon999]

Guessing the police were hoping they'd commit suicide in prison, or at least wished for a fast-track trial. Tough on them and I hope it all comes out and destroys careers and KT tourism (until it's thoroughly cleansed).

I see Mr Kent's name mentioned again. Why? And why is he still ambassador even?

I bet the British bobbies are relishing working with the Thai police. I hope they are familiar with this place as it'll be easy to run them around if not. They'd be better off being chaperoned by the army. RTP should take a backseat or, better still, get out of the car!

Stop believing that the embassy never does anything .

They have quite cleverly managed to get access for thr British police without annoying anyone in thailand. They have made their statements about the problems with the case quite firmly and diplomatically.

What would you like them to do? Send in thr SAS?

The British Embassy and/or Mark Kent are next to useless and have done very little other than mouthing a few platitudes.

The British Police were allowed to be involved only AFTER the Thai PM met Cameron, that had nothing to do with Mark Kent or the British Embassy.

Quite honestly, the UK Govt and Embassies need to stop pussyfooting around and being so diplomatic that they achieve next to nothing. A little more forcefulness would be good to see occasionally. A little more give and take instead of the current just taking things (mostly) lying down in fear of upsetting the "host" nation.

Cameron wouldn't have got involved with out consulting Kent first

I take it you are an acknowledged expert on diplomacy? Since when has a PM had to consult an Ambassador about what he should do? The Ambassador will almost certainly have been told of the plans which is an entirely different thing altogether.

[Tatsujin]

The British Embassy and/or Mark Kent are next to useless and have done very little other than mouthing a few platitudes.

The British Police were allowed to be involved only AFTER the Thai PM met Cameron, that had nothing to do with Mark Kent or the British Embassy.

Quite honestly, the UK Govt and Embassies need to stop pussyfooting around and being so diplomatic that they achieve next to nothing. A little more forcefulness would be good to see occasionally. A little more give and take instead of the current just taking things (mostly) lying down in fear of upsetting the "host" nation.

"The British Police were allowed to be involved only AFTER the Thai PM met Cameron, that had nothing to do with Mark Kent or the British Embassy"

This is such a ridiculous statement, the British embassy here is the UK government's representative and has to be involved.

Even more ridiculous is your implied suggestion that you are familiar with what goes on between the British Prime Minister and his Ambassador here.

As you are so familiar with the inner workings of the British Govt and it's Embassies overseas, perhaps you could explain what and how Mark Kent and the British Embassy here in Thailand arranged for this concession that the British Police can come to Thailand to observe the investigation . . . ?

As far as I am concerned, the allowance for the British Police to come to Thailand was obtained by David Cameron in Milan when he met with the Thai PM, this followed the 100,000+ signatures that were obtained calling for their involvement. Mark Kent and the British Embassy are not the ones that made this happen.

[freedom4life]

the DNA results are already suspect because the same alleged suspects were already cleared by DNA the first time

the RTP has made themselves the complete fools here, why?

because social media has kept them accountable,

and on their heels because, they are liars and they proved it to the world

Correct. They were apparently cleared the first time...this alone will get them off. Indeed they are liars and most corrupt, even the Thais agree to that. Follow the money trail, if you can. That may prove to be difficult, if cash was delivered.

[jabis]

And the shit finally has hit the fan - for the RTP !!!

Let's hope that this cesspit full of corrupt brown crooks will be stirred up properly and that heads will roll accordingly.

I'd say more that the shit hit the banana pancake-man, who was presented in dozens of photos, introduced as the accused boys' translator, now taking the fall for their investigative methods. Who would've guessed

[webfact]

UPDATE:

Myanmar migrants retract British tourist murders confession

Bangkok, Thailand | AFP |

BANGKOK: -- Two Myanmar migrant workers accused of murdering a pair of British tourists on a Thai island have retracted their confessions and alleged they were tortured, lawyers said on Wednesday.

Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun were charged with the murder of David Miller, 24, and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, after the tourists' battered bodies were found on the island of Koh Tao last month.

The retractions are the latest blow for Thai police who have come under widespread criticism for bungling the murder investigation amid accusations the migrants were being framed for the brutal crime.

"The suspects said they did not kill them, they were not involved in the incident, and they were physically abused," Surapong Kongchantuk, the lead lawyer for the pair, told AFP.

Thai authorities have strongly denied using the pair as scapegoats, insisting the case is built on solid evidence showing the DNA of the accused matches samples taken from Witheridge's body.

On Wednesday prosecutors confirmed they had received a letter from the defence team in which the pair withdrew their confession and laid out allegations of torture.

"It doesn't matter if they confessed or denied it because the court will consider evidence from forensic tests," said prosecution lawyer Paiboon Archavanuntakun.

The murders on the normally tranquil island rocked the small community and marked a new setback for Thailand's image as a holiday haven after months of protests in Bangkok led to a coup and the imposition of martial law in May.

Last week Thai authorities agreed to allow British police to observe the investigation after the UK expressed concerns and offered to help with the probe.

The parents of the migrant workers were expected to travel to Koh Samui prison on Wednesday to visit their detained sons, Surapong said.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-10-22

[loongdavid]

Lies! This was a perfect police investigation and you farrangs just need time to understand.

Happiness in the Kingdom now sits at 120% and corruption has been eradicated.

Love live the Generalissimo

"Lies! This was a perfect police investigation and you farrangs just need time to understand".

Well, tullynagardy I can assure you that by world's best practice this was most definitely NOT a perfect police investigation. Like everyone else I have been following events everyday, particularly the constant stream of contradictory press releases by the RTP. Nothing, I repeat nothing, could have been more counter-productive and amateur than the performance of the RTP. I have no knowledge whatsoever as to the guilt or innocence of the accused and I would respectfully suggest that you do not either.

As for your statement that corruption "...has been eradicated", you just have to be joking. By this statement you lose any credibility you may have had. As for your ridiculous and somewhat insulting comment that "...you farrangs just need time to understand". You are obviously ignorant as to the depth of understanding that most farangs have regarding this matter.

[Bleacher Bum East]

Yeah, I agree with the posts above that Nom Sod doesn't look like a killer, but he very well could have been involved, hence the rush off the island. I figure it was Nom Sod and the other two in that photo that Sean took, the AC Bar mngr and the cop....they would have to stay on the island, but Nom Sod is better off skedaddling to BKK. It adds up.

Did you guys see the photo of the kid who detonated bombs at the Boston Marathon a few years back, did he look like a killer?

What does a killer look like?

Billy the Kid -- who allegedly killed over 20 men before being killed at the age of 21.

Ah, now there's a thought...

Your inference with the photo is correct ... you cannot tell who is capable of murder simply by their age and appearance.

But the other clear message of your post should be this: It is vitally important that the persons who committed these horrific crimes, whoever they may be, are caught and locked away so they can never do it again (I'm not an advocate of the death penalty in any situation, but that's another discussion).

The Thai authorities charged with protecting their own citizens and visitors to the country should be at the top of the list of people wanting to make sure this happens.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[Thaiwine]

Hopefully the retraction means they won't be pleading guilty, so the prosecution will have to present their evidence in court for the world to see.

[Pattaya46]

Correct. They were apparently cleared the first time...this alone will get them off.

Where did you see they were cleared? From Police reports I remember, the 2 suspects were part of a group of *hundreds* workers who got a DNA sample collected... but Police also said the DNA tests were made only for a few tens of people who were suspected at this time. The 2 final suspects were not in the short list, as their employer "forgot" to put them on his employees list...

[Always18]

Lies! This was a perfect police investigation and you farrangs just need time to understand.

Happiness in the Kingdom now sits at 120% and corruption has been eradicated.

Love live the Generalissimo

"Lies! This was a perfect police investigation and you farrangs just need time to understand".

Well, tullynagardy I can assure you that by world's best practice this was most definitely NOT a perfect police investigation. Like everyone else I have been following events everyday, particularly the constant stream of contradictory press releases by the RTP. Nothing, I repeat nothing, could have been more counter-productive and amateur than the performance of the RTP. I have no knowledge whatsoever as to the guilt or innocence of the accused and I would respectfully suggest that you do not either.

As for your statement that corruption "...has been eradicated", you just have to be joking. By this statement you lose any credibility you may have had. As for your ridiculous and somewhat insulting comment that "...you farrangs just need time to understand". You are obviously ignorant as to the depth of understanding that most farangs have regarding this matter.

With the greatest respect Loongdavid, I think it's abundantly clear that Tullynagardy was exercising that ancient English tradition called "sarcasm".......................

[ratcatcher]

I have a bad feeling these two boys will not live long enough to go to trial. The RTP is probably already cooking up a planned double suicide/accident to make this case disappear.

Try and relax. It's a bit "late in the day" for a sudden dual suicide in Samui jail. There are too many interested parties watching this whole thing under a magnifying glass now that I would speculate that these two suspects are under very secure custody.

The can of worms has been well and truly blown open now and nothing will put the lid back on until the truth has been discovered.

And for the few that think the British Police will arrive in a brand new Range Rover with lights and sirens, dream on.

IMHO opinion they have had very discreet "feet on the ground" in one way or another since day one watching these events unfold. This also goes for several other countries, who have personnel here undercover all year. We just don't notice them. That's their job.

[worzel]

Unfortunately, so many westerners, including many on this very forum, were calling for the murderers to be found quickly and sent to prison the next day. Even though in most foreign countries it takes time to find the suspects, here they are condemned for not finding the suspects next to the dead bodies. Because we live in a tourist area, they try to please the foreigners wishes and deliver results that are not correct, but expedient. Next time please give them some room to do their job.

do their job ha ha ha sat on thier butts counting tea money

[loongdavid]

"I take it you are an acknowledged expert on diplomacy? Since when has a PM had to consult an Ambassador about what he should do? The Ambassador will almost certainly have been told of the plans which is an entirely different thing altogether".

...but I am, and I can assure you that for the British PM not to have consulted the British Ambassador in Thailand, your statement and the concept is utterly ridiculous. Ambassadors are in place to give advice and an up-to-date assessment of the situation "on the ground".