Malaysian Muslim receives death threats for dog-petting event

[Scott]

It would appear that you have made up your mind that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. That's up to you. I think that 'barely' Muslim is a new term. If we are going to have extremes then I guess the barely Muslim extreme seems like a good alternative.

[manarak]

Moderate Muslim is not an oxymoron. I know quite a few moderate Muslims. Some of them are moderate enough that I didn't even know they were Muslim. They are not lapsed, they haven't given up the faith, but they seldom actively participate in it, except when it comes to traditions like births, deaths and marriage.

The moderates get almost no attention, but let's remember, all the people who went to pet the dogs were probably moderates.

Is that what being a moderate muslim is, is it? Barely being a Muslim?

I always thought it was a term to define people who are true Muslims but we're not radical or fundamental about it but your definition fits in with my belief that there is no such thing as a moderate true Muslim.

you are right, a "moderate Muslim" is a Muslim who has decided that the Quran should not be understood literally.

The only problem with that is that the Quran itself states that the text is a 100% accurate account of what Allah has revealed to Muhammed.

So "moderate Muslims" are people who do not believe in the Quran.

That is also the view shared by radicals and islamists, and is 100% correct.

The Bible also contains some strange stuff, such as talking snakes, donkeys and bushes, dividing the seawater for walking through the seabed, zombies, virgin birth, demons turned into pigs jumping from a cliff, etc.

Luckily, the Bible is reputed to be "hearsay" and also amendable (it has been amended numerous times) - the Quran is not amendable and this will be its eventual downfall.

[KunMatt]

It would appear that you have made up your mind that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. That's up to you. I think that 'barely' Muslim is a new term. If we are going to have extremes then I guess the barely Muslim extreme seems like a good alternative.

We actually agree on the same thing. You described the moderate Muslims you knew not actively or devoutly following Islam. I always thought that the term "Moderate Muslim" meant a devout Muslim who was tolerant to non-Muslims and not fundamental. From how you term "Moderate Muslims" you are saying that the only moderate Muslims you know are only moderate because they are not devout Muslims, which is exactly what I also believe.

Edited October 26, 2014 by KunMatt

[Tep]

It would appear that you have made up your mind that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. That's up to you. I think that 'barely' Muslim is a new term. If we are going to have extremes then I guess the barely Muslim extreme seems like a good alternative.

We actually agree on the same thing. You described the moderate Muslims you knew not actively or devoutly following Islam. I always thought that the term "Moderate Muslim" meant a devout Muslim who was tolerant to non-Muslims and not fundamental. From how you term "Moderate Muslims" you are saying that the only moderate Muslims you know are only moderate because they are not devout Muslims, which is exactly what I also believe.

I do not like the term moderate muslim. I think it is an attempt by a certain group to push their agenda and oppress groups that they do not like for whatever reason. It is like the term 'illegal alien'. This is a buzz word for certain groups, yet more rational, respectful organisations do not use this. The Associated Press now only uses the word illegal to apply to an activity that is illegal, not to the person itself.

Certain groups don't like this. It removes their power. They moan about PC. They are not about respect so they do not understand or comprehend the idea of being respectful to others. To me, using the term 'moderate muslim' implies some obligation on that person to demonstrate continually their moderation. What will satisfy those screaming the loudest on this issue? A non stop, 24/7 apology from every muslim on the planter? A declaration at the start of every sentence they speak, saying "I abhor the actions of my radical brethren"? Remaining in a position of supplication every time one of these screaming ninnies is in the room?

I am not Muslim. I have no desire to be Muslim. I do not like any of the Abrahamic Religions as a set of beliefs although I do accept their historic role. However, if there was to be a term 'moderate muslim', I do not think it should be defined by a non muslim. Anything otherwise is an attempt to use language as oppression.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Tep

[Scott]

It would appear that you have made up your mind that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. That's up to you. I think that 'barely' Muslim is a new term. If we are going to have extremes then I guess the barely Muslim extreme seems like a good alternative.

We actually agree on the same thing. You described the moderate Muslims you knew not actively or devoutly following Islam. I always thought that the term "Moderate Muslim" meant a devout Muslim who was tolerant to non-Muslims and not fundamental. From how you term "Moderate Muslims" you are saying that the only moderate Muslims you know are only moderate because they are not devout Muslims, which is exactly what I also believe.

During my time in the Middle East, I met some devout Muslims who were quite tolerant. Actually, I didn't really meet any radical or extremist Muslims, that I knew of. A few were quite dogmatic in their beliefs, but hardly radical.

I think there is a difference when people live in an area where the vast majority of people are Muslim. There wasn't much to get very radical about.

In Turkey I once saw an Imam who came by a bar with outside seating and started yelling and screaming at all the people there. The locals didn't call him a radical, they called him a nutter and he was rather abruptly helped out of the area.

....but I think we are straying from the topic of Malaysia. I haven't spent a lot of time there, but I found it to be a rather moderate, for lack of a better word, country.

[simple1]

Moderate Muslim is not an oxymoron. I know quite a few moderate Muslims. Some of them are moderate enough that I didn't even know they were Muslim. They are not lapsed, they haven't given up the faith, but they seldom actively participate in it, except when it comes to traditions like births, deaths and marriage.

The moderates get almost no attention, but let's remember, all the people who went to pet the dogs were probably moderates.

Is that what being a moderate muslim is, is it? Barely being a Muslim?

I always thought it was a term to define people who are true Muslims but we're not radical or fundamental about it but your definition fits in with my belief that there is no such thing as a moderate true Muslim.

you are right, a "moderate Muslim" is a Muslim who has decided that the Quran should not be understood literally.

The only problem with that is that the Quran itself states that the text is a 100% accurate account of what Allah has revealed to Muhammed.

So "moderate Muslims" are people who do not believe in the Quran.

That is also the view shared by radicals and islamists, and is 100% correct.

The Bible also contains some strange stuff, such as talking snakes, donkeys and bushes, dividing the seawater for walking through the seabed, zombies, virgin birth, demons turned into pigs jumping from a cliff, etc.

Luckily, the Bible is reputed to be "hearsay" and also amendable (it has been amended numerous times) - the Quran is not amendable and this will be its eventual downfall.

The Quran has a number of different schools of 'interpretation', there is not one single body of thought that represents the Quran. Accordingly I do not agree that 'moderates' do not believe in the Quran - I'm talking about Muslims who attend Mosque, don't drink and so on.

At the URL below is an essay that covers the subject of the various schools of thoughts, the politics and influence of conservative Islam in a fair amount of detail.

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_1551_1600/quran_many_interpretations.htm

[manarak]

The Quran has a number of different schools of 'interpretation', there is not one single body of thought that represents the Quran. Accordingly I do not agree that 'moderates' do not believe in the Quran - I'm talking about Muslims who attend Mosque, don't drink and so on.

At the URL below is an essay that covers the subject of the various schools of thoughts, the politics and influence of conservative Islam in a fair amount of detail.

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_1551_1600/quran_many_interpretations.htm

Erm... Islam as an "idea", schools of thought and interpretations, etc. are all well and good, but could you please point out the school of thought that says the pillaging and killing of innocents, as described in the Quran and as ordered/motivated by Muhammed was wrong?

Or can you point out a school that says the Quran contains errors and is not perfect?

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Edited October 26, 2014 by manarak

[Roadman]

It would appear that you have made up your mind that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. That's up to you. I think that 'barely' Muslim is a new term. If we are going to have extremes then I guess the barely Muslim extreme seems like a good alternative.

We actually agree on the same thing. You described the moderate Muslims you knew not actively or devoutly following Islam. I always thought that the term "Moderate Muslim" meant a devout Muslim who was tolerant to non-Muslims and not fundamental. From how you term "Moderate Muslims" you are saying that the only moderate Muslims you know are only moderate because they are not devout Muslims, which is exactly what I also believe.

During my time in the Middle East, I met some devout Muslims who were quite tolerant. Actually, I didn't really meet any radical or extremist Muslims, that I knew of. A few were quite dogmatic in their beliefs, but hardly radical.

I think there is a difference when people live in an area where the vast majority of people are Muslim. There wasn't much to get very radical about.

In Turkey I once saw an Imam who came by a bar with outside seating and started yelling and screaming at all the people there. The locals didn't call him a radical, they called him a nutter and he was rather abruptly helped out of the area.

....but I think we are straying from the topic of Malaysia. I haven't spent a lot of time there, but I found it to be a rather moderate, for lack of a better word, country.

Moderate Muslims...seriously backward people in a modern world. Watch the YouTube video from Islam net " an attempt to silence criticism". They maybe able to differentiate between moderate and radical but when Muslim moderates in total believe of their bible consider men and women should be seated separate, that stoning to death is acceptable then the step from moderate to radical is not that big.

[Credo]

A very poor argument. What makes people move from moderate to radical, I don't know. I also don't know why some of the people who were recently Christians converted to Islam and then went about hacking and killing others.

People are strange beings. They get stranger when religion gets in the mix.

Like most creatures. It's best not to back them into a corner.

[F430murci]

A very poor argument. What makes people move from moderate to radical, I don't know. I also don't know why some of the people who were recently Christians converted to Islam and then went about hacking and killing others.

People are strange beings. They get stranger when religion gets in the mix.

Like most creatures. It's best not to back them into a corner.

Everyone talks about religion. I, however, have to say that most of the people I have come across in my life that are active in a church and believe in a God are happy, good people. My 2 older girls went to a Catholic private high school and became incredible young women. I struggle with the concept of a God and I have to say I am one of the more unhappy, stressed out people I know.

I candidly see christian religion as a positive as those that buy into it seem happy, well adjusted people. I am also talking about main stream and not the nut case Branch Dividian, Jim Jones type crap.

[StreetCowboy]

It would appear that you have made up your mind that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. That's up to you. I think that 'barely' Muslim is a new term. If we are going to have extremes then I guess the barely Muslim extreme seems like a good alternative.

We actually agree on the same thing. You described the moderate Muslims you knew not actively or devoutly following Islam. I always thought that the term "Moderate Muslim" meant a devout Muslim who was tolerant to non-Muslims and not fundamental. From how you term "Moderate Muslims" you are saying that the only moderate Muslims you know are only moderate because they are not devout Muslims, which is exactly what I also believe.

I don't think he said that they were in any way less devout than the bearded fire-brand loonies that you so love to hate.

The moderate muslims I know and work with go about their daily prayers five times discretely, and tend to frequent fish restaurants when we travel overseas. They'll sit and have a coffee or a coke in the airport bar while others of us take a beer.

SC

[KunMatt]

It would appear that you have made up your mind that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. That's up to you. I think that 'barely' Muslim is a new term. If we are going to have extremes then I guess the barely Muslim extreme seems like a good alternative.

We actually agree on the same thing. You described the moderate Muslims you knew not actively or devoutly following Islam. I always thought that the term "Moderate Muslim" meant a devout Muslim who was tolerant to non-Muslims and not fundamental. From how you term "Moderate Muslims" you are saying that the only moderate Muslims you know are only moderate because they are not devout Muslims, which is exactly what I also believe.

I don't think he said that they were in any way less devout than the bearded fire-brand loonies that you so love to hate.

The moderate muslims I know and work with go about their daily prayers five times discretely, and tend to frequent fish restaurants when we travel overseas. They'll sit and have a coffee or a coke in the airport bar while others of us take a beer.

SC

And when the revolution comes they will be the first people to cut your head off.

[Ulysses G.]

A very poor argument. What makes people move from moderate to radical, I don't know. I also don't know why some of the people who were recently Christians converted to Islam and then went about hacking and killing others.

People are strange beings. They get stranger when religion gets in the mix.

Like most creatures. It's best not to back them into a corner.

Everyone talks about religion. I, however, have to say that most of the people I have come across in my life that are active in a church and believe in a God are happy, good people. My 2 older girls went to a Catholic private high school and became incredible young women. I struggle with the concept of a God and I have to say I am one of the more unhappy, stressed out people I know.

I candidly see christian religion as a positive as those that buy into it seem happy, well adjusted people. I am also talking about main stream and not the nut case Branch Dividian, Jim Jones type crap.

I tend to agree with you that some religions are more positive than negative, but I have to admit that the more I learn about Islam the more I am suspicious that it is not one of them.

From what I understand, the only people who are supposed to be left in "peace" are either Muslims or "people of the book" that pay a tax to be left alone and have less rights than Muslims - dhimmīs. The Quran calls for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Moderate Muslims are the ones that do not follow their religion strictly.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[ggt]

They were reportedly shocked by media photos of Muslims including women in hijab cuddling with the dogs.

These are the people who would rule the world...Muslim cuddling with dogs? Off with their heads...!

They should see the dogs these Muslim women have to cuddle at home...

[KunMatt]

They were reportedly shocked by media photos of Muslims including women in hijab cuddling with the dogs.

These are the people who would rule the world...Muslim cuddling with dogs? Off with their heads...!

They should see the dogs these Muslim women have to cuddle at home...

They were offended because the female dogs weren't wearing hijabs.

[kinmaew]

I am gonna kill you because you patted a dog?

Thais are the opposite I have seen a picture of them praying to a dog (Yes a canine).

What kind of minds are we dealing with on this earth?

[amse]

Religion; Extreme superstition to the max.

Edited October 26, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed again. Please stop using bold font when posting.

[vogie]

If you have to kill in the name of religion, please start with yourself.

[H1w4yR1da]

I do not like the term moderate muslim. I think it is an attempt by a certain group to push their agenda and oppress groups that they do not like for whatever reason. It is like the term 'illegal alien'. This is a buzz word for certain groups, yet more rational, respectful organisations do not use this. The Associated Press now only uses the word illegal to apply to an activity that is illegal, not to the person itself.

Certain groups don't like this. It removes their power. They moan about PC. They are not about respect so they do not understand or comprehend the idea of being respectful to others.

Jeez! I've read some politically correct horseshit in my time but this crap takes the cake.

So by your strange way of thinking, referring to illegal immigrants as 'illegal' oppresses them?

Are you writing this as a joke?

And even though the illegal immigrant has illegally entered the country, calling them 'illegal' isn't showing them respect. According to you, we should only refer to the action of illegally entering a country, not to their status as illegals.

Man, you are way out there.

[hawker9000]

It would appear that you have made up your mind that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. That's up to you. I think that 'barely' Muslim is a new term. If we are going to have extremes then I guess the barely Muslim extreme seems like a good alternative.

We actually agree on the same thing. You described the moderate Muslims you knew not actively or devoutly following Islam. I always thought that the term "Moderate Muslim" meant a devout Muslim who was tolerant to non-Muslims and not fundamental. From how you term "Moderate Muslims" you are saying that the only moderate Muslims you know are only moderate because they are not devout Muslims, which is exactly what I also believe.

I do not like the term moderate muslim. I think it is an attempt by a certain group to push their agenda and oppress groups that they do not like for whatever reason. It is like the term 'illegal alien'. This is a buzz word for certain groups, yet more rational, respectful organisations do not use this. The Associated Press now only uses the word illegal to apply to an activity that is illegal, not to the person itself.

Certain groups don't like this. It removes their power. They moan about PC. They are not about respect so they do not understand or comprehend the idea of being respectful to others. To me, using the term 'moderate muslim' implies some obligation on that person to demonstrate continually their moderation. What will satisfy those screaming the loudest on this issue? A non stop, 24/7 apology from every muslim on the planter? A declaration at the start of every sentence they speak, saying "I abhor the actions of my radical brethren"? Remaining in a position of supplication every time one of these screaming ninnies is in the room?

I am not Muslim. I have no desire to be Muslim. I do not like any of the Abrahamic Religions as a set of beliefs although I do accept their historic role. However, if there was to be a term 'moderate muslim', I do not think it should be defined by a non muslim. Anything otherwise is an attempt to use language as oppression.

And so ends today's lesson on political correctness... ('No such thing. If you use the term, you're "moaning".) Lol Your reference to illegal aliens (as precise and objective a term as ever there was, but not PC) puts your comments immediately and entirely in clear perspective. Thanks!

Edited October 26, 2014 by hawker9000

[Das Boot]

W%^kers! Yet another reason to dislike these twisted, excuse for 'human beings'

[StreetCowboy]

W%^kers! Yet another reason to dislike these twisted, excuse for 'human beings'

I don't think cuddling dogs is that bad.

So long as you wash the bowl properly after the dog's eaten it, and avoid the dog slavering all over you, you should be OK

I'm not going to condemn the whole of the rugby league fraternity because some idiots made death threats against Ben Flower

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-29625986

nor because some of their members exhibit unsavoury behaviour

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-29691561

There were more muslims involved in the handling of the dogs than in the death threats

SC

Edited October 26, 2014 by StreetCowboy

[Andre0720]

No one is bashing moderate Muslims. The complaints are about radical Muslims and fundamentalism. They are the ones issuing the death threats against moderate Muslims for petting dogs. .

Quite right.

When Muslims run out of non-muslims to perpetrate violence, then they turn to other Muslims...

Sad but true...

[feba]

What a beautiful religion!!!!!!

Give me a feakin break!!!!!!

[abhaya]

I think spanking you monkey is allowed.

Edited October 26, 2014 by abhaya

[generealty]

YES but the Buddists DO NOT CUT YOUR FRIGGING HEAD OFF for doing so !

No one is bashing moderate Muslims. The complaints are about radical Muslims and fundamentalism. They are the ones issuing the death threats against moderate Muslims for petting dogs. .

For many of this lot, there is no difference.

If the supposed "moderates" would out the "radicals", I could agree that "moderates" exist

. Until that happens, the world must treat all muslims as suspiciously as we would treat known radicals.

Inactive complicity is essentially support

. The "radicals" would not be able to function outside the area controlled

by the new Militant threat in the middle east without the silence of those who know

and dont report... ... ...

Time after time after time, moderate Muslims HAVE INDEED come out and rubbished the extremists.... Do some research.... Uninformed claptrap.

Take a look at who is assisting the Americans in their Air Strikes against IS. It is Muslims.... Have look at who the people MOST affected by radical Islam, actually are.... Moderate Muslims....

Sure, not being able to pat a dog is nonsense to us..... but equally nonsensical to a non Buddhist, is not being able to touch the top of someone's head.... without causing offense... And before you come back about Buddhism being a truly peaceful religion (tho that is generally true) ask the Rohingyas how that is working for them....

[Mudcrab]

Do they allow the petting of Badgers and gerbils?

Or are they going to issue a fatwa on me?

Could be a fatwa or a thinwa depending on the sex of said badger or gerbil.

Please note: badger milking is permitted only whilst wearing a Burqa. As is the insertion of a gerbil to any bodily orifice - we do need to keep some decorum in our lives.(unless of course nobody is looking then it's game on)

[mikiea]

yea, i gotta dog ya can pet :-)

[searayman]

There is nothing wrong petting a dog

why are those retards threatening ……….

feeling insecure and jealous on the good pet lover i guessed

[Bakeman]

The Muslims need to help by standing up to the radical Muslims. If they don't condemn Radical Muslim acts then they themselves are Radical Muslims.