In the context of Thailand, what is a digital nomad?

[phpsql]

A few days ago, there was a thread on this forum about digital nomads. The thread appears to have been removed. I assume it contravened forum rules. The thread was of interest, however, insofar as it revealed how little understood the term "digital nomad" is.

The term "digital nomad" is obviously very nebulous: while the word "nomad" is generally well understood, the word "digital" is vague and open to misinterpretation. In the context of Thailand, I would like to explain (to the best of my knowledge) what the term "digital nomad" means.

1. A digital nomad is NOT an internet entrepreneur:a digital nomad (by definition) will seldom set up a company or employ people.

2. Legality and visas. I'm no expert, but I found the following article on the Asia Correspondent.

3. Location: It appears that many digital nomads flock to Chiang Mai.

4. Digital nomads in Thailand can usually be sub-classified as:

a. programmers

b. coders

c. graphics designers / artists

d. bloggers

e. self-published authors

f. owners of e-commerce websites

g. owners of domain name leasing services

5. Earning potential. This is a tricky one. I believe that a nomadic lifestyle places a severe cap on what can be earned. To make serious money from the internet, a registered company or semi-permanent place of residence is needed.

6. Skills. IMO, young digital nomads in Thailand are skilled. I've seen this with my own eyes. I'm talking about:

a. web coding -- HTML / CSS / Javascript / AJAX

b. server side programming -- PHP / SQL / ASP / RUBY / PYTHON / JAVA

c. design -- AI / PSD

7. Older nomads. From what I've seen, youngsters plying their IT skills nomadically eventually move on and do well. Some set up their own companies; others enter the rat race.

8. The pros and cons. I see very few downsides. If I were young, computer literate and in possession of a laptop, I would love to be a digital nomad! What better way to travel the world, experience a little of what life has to offer and make money at the same time.

Edited October 25, 2014 by phpsql

[bigjules007]

Or you could learn the markets and trade forex. More earning potential when you know what your doing

[phpsql]

Or you could learn the markets and trade forex. More earning potential when you know what your doing

I do know FOREX traders in Thailand, but I'm not sure if they can be classed as "digital nomads". What do you think?

Frankly, I believe that successful traders need an office.

[pigeonjake]

ive got a couple of mates who work online,

it just dosnt interest me,

i like having the craic with the lads when im working, i couldnt just sit in my room, ok or on the beach,

i like to be with other people, then when im on my 35 days off i like to be with my family,

i dont have a problem at all with the digital nomads,

its just they seam to think its just for the young ones, and state as much saying the older people on here are just jelous of them, im far from jelous and im 54, each to there own as allways been my thoughts,

i dont agree that ,(if they are) abusing the visa system, its hard enough for people to stay here as it without some abusing the system,

good luck to all that do it legaly,,

[bigjules007]

An office is obviously a big plus but I dont think its absolutely essential, as long as you can gather enough info up before you start your trading day. I will say you do need your own privacy when you are trading as so not to be distracted. Im obviously talking about day trading and sprint markets.

[phpsql]

ive got a couple of mates who work online,

it just dosnt interest me,

i like having the craic with the lads when im working, i couldnt just sit in my room, ok or on the beach,

i like to be with other people, then when im on my 35 days off i like to be with my family,

i dont have a problem at all with the digital nomads,

its just they seam to think its just for the young ones, and state as much saying the older people on here are just jelous of them, im far from jelous and im 54, each to there own as allways been my thoughts,

i dont agree that ,(if they are) abusing the visa system, its hard enough for people to stay here as it without some abusing the system,

good luck to all that do it legaly,,

Good post Jake. Thank you.

I'm 50 years old and, to be truthful, am a bit jealous of their lifestyle. They make me wish I was young again!

I tried to click your LIKE button but my vote appears not to have been registered.

[bigjules007]

Think your right about trading not quite falling into the category of a digital nomad, but it is a viable way of earning money whilst on the move, anywhere in the world.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Trading Forex is not a skill. It's casino.

I thought gambling was illegal in Thailand?

Edited October 25, 2014 by theguyfromanotherforum

[rwdrwdrwd]

1. A digital nomad is NOT an internet entrepreneur:a digital nomad (by definition) will seldom set up a company or employ people.

On the contrary, quite often they will have a corporate entity through which to trade, though this is likely to be located in a tax efficient environment such as Hong Kong or BVI. You're right about not employing people though.

5. Earning potential. This is a tricky one. I believe that a nomadic lifestyle places a severe cap on what can be earned. To make serious money from the internet, a registered company or semi-permanent place of residence is needed.

I think you'd be surprised. In many cases these are people that have built up a successful career doing onsite work that have migrated to working remotely. The money is almost on-par with onsite rates, and the tax structure, payment via Dividends and difference in cost of living often pushes this well above in terms of (take home pay - cost of living).

In terms of Software Engineering, something I have 15 years experience in and am very familiar with (I've consulted, sometimes remotely, for a number of Fortune 500s), I can assure you that for a strong senior level programmer that is skilled enough to land a long term remote role with a decent western technical company, or that can fill their time with a selection of decent western clients, 100 - 120k USD+ is not that hard to obtain, and neither is equity - Silicon Valley is now paying 150k - 200k + equity so even undercutting by 20 - 25% means fantastic income and sometime undercutting isn't even a factor - there are a number of large profitable organisations with sizeable tech teams that are distributed across the globe and paid extremely well - same as SV rates. For these organisations the key is skillset and experience, not physical location, and they will pay for it.

A permanent home address isn't really a requirement as much as a reliable internet connection, wherever that may be, though executing contracts and invoicing via an offshore company with a serviced office / accountancy firm registered address certainly makes things easier.

Edited October 25, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[Costas2008]

The first time in my life I heard about digital Nomads was about a month ago when the thread appeared on TVF.

From what I understood from that thread is that digital nomads are mainly young people that have an idea of how to use a computer and try to convince themselves that they have a job.

The don't offer any benefits to anybody, no taxes paid no social security just instead of trying to find a proper job they are pissing around the globe pretending they offer something to society.

From what I understood also they are earning a pittance of money.

I would call them lazy bums and I would advise them to go and get a job.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Don't be jelly

[bigjules007]

Trading Forex is not a skill. It's casino.

I thought gambling was illegal in Thailand?

I totally disagree with this statement, while sprint markets can be perceived as gambling, day trading relies more on strategies to ensure you are successful and seeing trends over longer periods of time. Its a skill in itself to learn how to read a candlestick chart correctly.

[phpsql]

The first time in my life I heard about digital Nomads was about a month ago when the thread appeared on TVF.

From what I understood from that thread is that digital nomads are mainly young people that have an idea of how to use a computer and try to convince themselves that they have a job.

The don't offer any benefits to anybody, no taxes paid no social security just instead of trying to find a proper job they are pissing around the globe pretending they offer something to society.

From what I understood also they are earning a pittance of money.

I would call them lazy bums and I would advise them to go and get a job.

No. You have it all wrong, I'm afraid. Many of these youngsters are highly skilled, pay taxes and earn good money.

Good luck to them, I say.

Edited October 25, 2014 by phpsql

[meom]

I could be wrong but it seems to me that the majority of digital nomads in Thailand are not nomadic at all and prefer to stay in Thailand indefinately or something instead of travelling around.

I used to hitchhike when younger and it sure would' ve made life easier if there were lap tops in those days and if I had any skills to make money digital while on the road.

[phpsql]

Trading Forex is not a skill. It's casino.

I thought gambling was illegal in Thailand?

I totally disagree with this statement, while sprint markets can be perceived as gambling, day trading relies more on strategies to ensure you are successful and seeing trends over longer periods of time. Its a skill in itself to learn how to read a candlestick chart correctly.

Excellent post. FOREX is almost like a science.

[Soutpeel]

In the Thailand, context, people who flog fake goods, and gamble on line , distribute porn also claim to be digital nomads as well

And before the members of the ALBC get all up in arms, I have no issue with concept of a digital nomad provided what they are doing is legal in the country they are in

However I do take exception to those living in Thailand long term who are not really "nomads" claiming they should be afforded a special visa or considerations all because they carry a lap top under their arms, which even people who are legally employed in Thailand do as well

Edited October 25, 2014 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

The first time in my life I heard about digital Nomads was about a month ago when the thread appeared on TVF.

From what I understood from that thread is that digital nomads are mainly young people that have an idea of how to use a computer and try to convince themselves that they have a job.

The don't offer any benefits to anybody, no taxes paid no social security just instead of trying to find a proper job they are pissing around the globe pretending they offer something to society.

From what I understood also they are earning a pittance of money.

I would call them lazy bums and I would advise them to go and get a job.

No. You have it all wrong, I'm afraid. Many of these youngsters are highly skilled, pay taxes and earn good money.

Good luck to them, I say.

No he doesn't have it all wrong there are people who claim to to digital nomads living in who are exactly as Costa's describes

[jspill]

good luck to all that do it legaly,,

This is where otherwise interesting threads get derailed, certain posters start saying it's illegal to work online because tourist visa declarations say 'employment prohibited', then it turns into bickering and the thread gets deleted. Hopefully this one stays civil.

To me common sense would dictate that those visa declarations effectively mean 'don't take jobs from Thais' by performing physically present jobs, e.g. real estate brokerage, whatever, without a permit.

Say for example you run an amazon affiliate site, it provides monthly passive income. You then decide to holiday in Thailand on a tourist visa. You enjoy it and stay for years - there is no official limit on tourist visas. Are you breaking the law if you don't take the website offline before coming? I don't think so.

There's no functional difference between that passive income, and tinkering around with a bit of programming for offshore customers on a TR / Ed visa.

In fact if you apply for several TR / Ed visas back to back, sometimes consulates want to check that you aren't working illegally. What is their criteria for this? Asking you to provide proof of income from outside Thailand. Offshore sourced funds (that a digital nomad would have) do not constitute working in Thailand.

Source - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715011-red-stamp-in-vientiane-advice-needed/

[jspill]

In the Thailand, context, people who flog fake goods, and gamble on line , distribute porn also claim to be digital nomads as well

And before the members of the ALBC get all up in arms

There are criminals with work permits, criminals on retirement visas, all kinds of shady people in every industry.

[phpsql]

In the Thailand, context, people who flog fake goods, and gamble on line , distribute porn also claim to be digital nomads as well

And before the members of the ALBC get all up in arms

Respectfully, let's refrain from discussing illegal activities.

You may also wish to restrain your prejudices and preconceived ideas.

The previous thread about digital nomads was marred by childishness. Let's try to do things differently (and in accordance with forum rules) this time.

[Soutpeel]

In the Thailand, context, people who flog fake goods, and gamble on line , distribute porn also claim to be digital nomads as well

And before the members of the ALBC get all up in arms

Respectfully, let's refrain from discussing illegal activities.

You may also wish to restrain your prejudices and preconceived ideas.

The previous thread about digital nomads was marred by childishness. Let's try to do things differently (and in accordance with forum rules) this time.

So your disputing that there people who claim to digital nomads in Thailand who are are engaged in illegal activity ?

I have no prejudices, i have no issue with concept of digital nomads but at the same time, I take exception to claims by digital nomads that they should be afforded special treatment in Thailand and be issued a long term visa just because they have a lap top, if one really wishes to set up or operate a business from Thailand, one needs to do it properly and legally and register a company then

Edited October 25, 2014 by Soutpeel

[phpsql]

The first time in my life I heard about digital Nomads was about a month ago when the thread appeared on TVF.

From what I understood from that thread is that digital nomads are mainly young people that have an idea of how to use a computer and try to convince themselves that they have a job.

The don't offer any benefits to anybody, no taxes paid no social security just instead of trying to find a proper job they are pissing around the globe pretending they offer something to society.

From what I understood also they are earning a pittance of money.

I would call them lazy bums and I would advise them to go and get a job.

No. You have it all wrong, I'm afraid. Many of these youngsters are highly skilled, pay taxes and earn good money.

Good luck to them, I say.

No he doesn't have it all wrong there are people who claim to to digital nomads living in who are exactly as Costa's describes

Trust me -- you are hopelessly wrong.

[bigjules007]

I dont think this is a thread about boiler rooms is it??

Edited October 25, 2014 by bigjules007

[Soutpeel]

The first time in my life I heard about digital Nomads was about a month ago when the thread appeared on TVF.

From what I understood from that thread is that digital nomads are mainly young people that have an idea of how to use a computer and try to convince themselves that they have a job.

The don't offer any benefits to anybody, no taxes paid no social security just instead of trying to find a proper job they are pissing around the globe pretending they offer something to society.

From what I understood also they are earning a pittance of money.

I would call them lazy bums and I would advise them to go and get a job.

No. You have it all wrong, I'm afraid. Many of these youngsters are highly skilled, pay taxes and earn good money.

Good luck to them, I say.

No he doesn't have it all wrong there are people who claim to to digital nomads living in who are exactly as Costa's describes

Trust me -- you are hopelessly wrong.

Trust me your hopelessly wrong as well,

[phpsql]

Trust me your hopelessly wrong as well,

Let's do away with the childishness, okay?

Drop it.

[Soutpeel]

Trust me your hopelessly wrong as well,

Let's do away with the childishness, okay?

Drop it.

You started it by make sweeping, all encompassing statement's

[phpsql]

Back on topic

Let's talk more about what digital nomads do here in Thailand

Does anyone know of any successful, self-published authors who travel the country in search of new material?

Any competent nomadic website designers out there?

And how about those of you who blog? I've heard that a well-monetized blog can pull in up to one thousand dollars per month? I've heard too that some of the top bloggers operate 30 or more domains. That's serious cash. Any of these guys in Thailand?

It'd be good too to hear from graphics designers (PSD / AI).

[jspill]

Back on topic:

1. A digital nomad is NOT an internet entrepreneur:a digital nomad (by definition) will seldom set up a company or employ people.

Not all are, but some can be entrepeneurs. The definition of entrepeneur from wiki is just one who 'develops a business model, acquires the human and other required resources, and is fully responsible for its success or failure.'

That can be an internet business rather than a physical one, and the human resources can be outsourced online freelancers. The definition of 'business' is the issue, I'd say that's anything you create that generates income, could be a blog, niche affiliate site, consulting service, content site populated with adsense, information product (e.g. kindle ebooks), all those are online businesses, anyone creating one from scratch and being responsible for it's success or failure is an entrepeneur. They create jobs for others if they outsource minor tasks - lots of Thais on freelancer.com actually, being employed by digital nomads.

[phpsql]

Back on topic:

1. A digital nomad is NOT an internet entrepreneur:a digital nomad (by definition) will seldom set up a company or employ people.

Not all are, but some can be entrepeneurs. The definition of entrepeneur from wiki is just one who 'develops a business model, acquires the human and other required resources, and is fully responsible for its success or failure.'

That can be an internet business rather than a physical one, and the human resources can be outsourced online freelancers. The definition of 'business' is the issue, I'd say that's anything you create that generates income, could be a blog, niche affiliate site, consulting service, content site populated with adsense, information product (e.g. kindle ebooks), all those are online businesses, anyone creating one from scratch and being responsible for it's success or failure is an entrepeneur. They create jobs for others if they outsource minor tasks - lots of Thais on freelancer.com actually, being employed by digital nomads.

I tentatively agree.

I agree fully that bricks and mortar premises are not required to build a business.

For me, however, an entrepreneur is someone who creates jobs which he controls and pays salaries to from his own business.

Jobs created via extensive outsourcing don't really fit into this category, IMO.

I outsource to India, but would never lay claim to having created jobs there.

Edited October 25, 2014 by phpsql

[jspill]

For me, however, an entrepreneur is someone who creates jobs which he controls and pays salaries to from his own business.

Jobs created via extensive outsourcing don't really fit into this category, IMO.

I outsource to India, but would never lay claim to having created jobs there.

Well, sometimes outsourcing leads to regular work, semi-permanent positions. Even if it's only 100 hours, the hourly rate for that could make it equivalent to 100 days of work in their country.

First link I find on freelancer is an ad for thai translation, where the nomad is willing to pay 8,000 - 25,000 Baht to translate 3200 words, with an average bid price of 10,000 Baht. Compare that to an expat on a business visa paying 4 Thai employees 8,000 Baht per month to commute to an office for a 9 to 5.