Thailand Haltingly Moves Toward Stability and Democracy

[Lingba]

junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:

Totally agree with the article. Do others commenting really believe that previously had a democratically elected government? The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government.

Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated, but we have yet to see them spend any time in jail... to show they mean business they need to investigate/charge and jail those at the top, this of course will not happen as it would also mean investigating the military, the RTP, all politicians (from all parties) including but not limited to the village chiefs. It will NEVER happen, well not in my lifetime.

Exactly...just look at Koh Tao

[MediaWatcher]

tbthailand, on 26 Oct 2014 - 17:53, said:

MediaWatcher, on 26 Oct 2014 - 17:38, said:

Suffinator, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:58, said:Suffinator, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:58, said:

The reality is that democracy extends as far as allowing an individual to vote in the next dictator who in turn is controlled by the banks and industry. For the people, by the people... it's just meaningless words. Unfortunately in Thailand with the average Thai being as ignorant as a toothbrush they cannot understand what true democracy is about and therefore cannot implement it.

One reason they do not "understand" democracy is that it isn't taught... keep the nation dumb, it's easier to control. Just ask your partner if they know what democracy is. Please, that doesn't include the minority that studied politics at uni or studied overseas.

Thais understand democracy perfectly.

The Thai elites and military do not WANT democracy. They use the 'Thais don't understand democracy' argument to support their own desire to kill democracy.

Um, like I said, go ask you Thai partner or family.....

[tbthailand]

It appears the writer, living in the U.S. is as clueless of the "American experiment" of the people ruling as some folks living here are of Thai culture. Oh, well. As we have said previously, the U.S. has many flaws but it does seek to allow a vote for citizens (yes, I am well aware of the Republican attempts to limit voters...of U.S. History...of the money being poured into influencing elections and politicians). But we Americans continue to struggle toward the ideal. The U.S. has a long history with the Thai people, we encourage them to reach toward that same ideal.

While we oft fall short, allow me to share the ideal:

"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education". Thomas Jefferson

good quotation.

America today is the perfect example showing that there are always anti-democratic forces at work and every democracy takes effort on the part of the people to protect that democracy and to nurture that democracy.

The Thai people are not even given that chance.

[rickirs]

"Haltingly Moves Toward Stability and Democracy"

"Haltingly" means "faltering" or "hesitating." "Haltingly" is a contradiction to "moves" and more accurately describes a FAILURE to move. Maybe a more descriptive title might be:

"Thailand in a Quagmire for Move Towards Stability and Democracy."

[tullynagardy]

It doesn`t bode well for an article when the actual title is grammatically unsound! Sure enough it`s a heap of bs even a diehard coup mongerer would cringe at.

I think the vast majority of Thais now know they have gone from the frying pan to the fire. The sad thing is, unlike before, they are unable to articulate those grievances for fear of persecution.

[Robespiere]

We have a second Michael Yon.

Wherever there's a chance to make a buck, someone will take it.

Morals be damned.

[MediaWatcher]

Robby nz, on 26 Oct 2014 - 17:55, said:

MediaWatcher, on 26 Oct 2014 - 17:34, said:

junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:

Totally agree with the article. Do others commenting really believe that previously had a democratically elected government? The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government.

Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated, but we have yet to see them spend any time in jail... to show they mean business they need to investigate/charge and jail those at the top, this of course will not happen as it would also mean investigating the military, the RTP, all politicians (from all parties) including but not limited to the village chiefs. It will NEVER happen, well not in my lifetime.

Another one who fails to understand that there is a process to be gone through before people are jailed.

First they must be investigated to determine if they have committed crime, assuming they have then they are charged with the appropriate crime, prosecuted and allowed their day(s) in court where the prosecution must prove then guilty before a judge can sentence them. They are then allowed to appeal a guilty verdict

All this take time and there are many investigations and prosecutions in the pipe line, some of those from very high places, for example Tarit.

Robby, before commenting, on what I wrote, please understand it was in reply to junk1e.. who said "The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government." the sad truth is, nothing has really changed hence the reason for the first sentence I wrote "Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated." Please, do reply, but in context to what I replied to junk1e. If you can show what/where things have "changed" then do so... but be prepare for a lot of replies shooting you down...

[Eric Loh]

American Thinker? Not in my book. Perhaps Mr. Chowtham can opine about the other 16 coups where he can't use Thaksin as the boogie man. My opinion is that it's the same old story of the establishment refusing to relinquish power to the people.

[tbthailand]

tbthailand, on 26 Oct 2014 - 17:53, said:

MediaWatcher, on 26 Oct 2014 - 17:38, said:

Suffinator, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:58, said:Suffinator, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:58, said:

The reality is that democracy extends as far as allowing an individual to vote in the next dictator who in turn is controlled by the banks and industry. For the people, by the people... it's just meaningless words. Unfortunately in Thailand with the average Thai being as ignorant as a toothbrush they cannot understand what true democracy is about and therefore cannot implement it.

One reason they do not "understand" democracy is that it isn't taught... keep the nation dumb, it's easier to control. Just ask your partner if they know what democracy is. Please, that doesn't include the minority that studied politics at uni or studied overseas.

Thais understand democracy perfectly.

The Thai elites and military do not WANT democracy. They use the 'Thais don't understand democracy' argument to support their own desire to kill democracy.

Um, like I said, go ask you Thai partner or family.....

??

explain yourself please.

See, I have already listened to my Thai family. And I have Thai friends on both sides of the political divide. The ones who prefer democracy know that politics is a corrupt business and they don't like it (but they also don't like paying tea-money, or paying the police, or giving extra cash to the doctor for better care, etc). But what this side wants is to vote and to have a say in their government - that's all.

The friends on the other side, pretend to understand democracy, but really just want to have their way. Often times the fall back on the corruption issue and really believe that, or at least they do not talk openly about the real reasons for the 'intervention'.

[Thai at Heart]

junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:

Totally agree with the article. Do others commenting really believe that previously had a democratically elected government? The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government.

Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated, but we have yet to see them spend any time in jail... to show they mean business they need to investigate/charge and jail those at the top, this of course will not happen as it would also mean investigating the military, the RTP, all politicians (from all parties) including but not limited to the village chiefs. It will NEVER happen, well not in my lifetime.

Another one who fails to understand that there is a process to be gone through before people are jailed.

First they must be investigated to determine if they have committed crime, assuming they have then they are charged with the appropriate crime, prosecuted and allowed their day(s) in court where the prosecution must prove then guilty before a judge can sentence them. They are then allowed to appeal a guilty verdict

All this take time and there are many investigations and prosecutions in the pipe line, some of those from very high places, for example Tarit.

Isn't the logical point to come from that unless a party proves demonstrably that they are consistently and effectively anti corruption, that they are likely corrupt too.

As yet,they've cleared a few beaches.

And even more ironically, they have enacted populist subsidies which they used as an excuse to oust the last bunch.

All sides of thr system are bent in Thailand. Once any side starts locking up their own, I will start believing they are part of the solution.

[phoenixdoglover]

Mr. Chowtham asks, "What do Americans know that the Thai people don’t? "

As an American, let me give it a try.

1) Majority rule is not one-party rule. When you lose a national election, you can expect your power to be diminished. The remedy for that power shift is to do better next time. (and vote buying is a criminal offense)

2) If you cannot prosecute corruption among the powerful and wealthy, you cannot reduce corruption. America has a checkered history in this regard, but there have been times when the mighty have fallen (and right now is not one of them).

3) The Press (news media) must be unfettered, regardless of whether they are purveying truths or hogwash. Criticism of the government and the elite is a primary function of the Press.

4) The Judiciary must be transparent and there must be due process for all accused. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Not on a beach with people gawking at the accused, not among an appointed commission, and not through a closed proceeding.

5) Demonstrations and violence in the streets is not sufficient justification for a military coup. Not in the Ukraine, not in Egypt, not in Thailand. America has had periods of extreme stress of this sort, especially during the Great Depression, and during the Vietnam War. Peaceful protest is a right. Violence is a criminal offense to be dealt with by the police.

I've tried to present this as an American perspective, not an analysis of Thailand's ills. I personally believe the proper roles of the Press and the Judiciary are the key, and that the form of elections/legislature/executive is less critical.

[ginjag]

This guy is writing for one of the ultra-right-wing blogs in the USA. It's a regular money-making, fear and hate-mongering industry that preys on people who can't think for themselves. Among the other articles on the home page now is one titled: Democratic Party: America's Resident Evil

This guy has his head penetrating his own behind that he manages to mix all of the PDRC + military + anti-democratic-elites nonsense into a single article. Let's see.... starting at the top:

How many of the world’s governments are truly “democratic”? How many are genuinely representative of their peoples?

that is a red-herring - it's not the question that concerns people living in Thailand under a military 'government'.

A simple-minded, inadequate test is whether their governments were elected by majority vote, In fact, elections alone are no guarantee of representative democracy.

This guy is too banal to believe, he is the one who is too simple-minded. Elections do not guarantee representative democracy... but military 'intervention' does guarantee the death of democracy.

Elections in Thailand produced a government under previous regimes that were un-representative of large segments of Thai society.

This is a bold-faced lie which he must have gotten straight from the PDRC... The last time I looked, the Thai people voted and sent a perfectly representative mix of MPs to the government house - PTP, Democrats, and many others. The fact that the opposition abrogated their responsibilities in representing the (not a majority) of Thais who elected them, took to the streets, called for a military 'intervention', blocked, not just boycotted, elections, speaks volumes about the source of the 'un-representative democracy' in Thailand.

It used corruption to buy votes

Obviously not very informed. International observers declared the elections fair, ... as did the leader of the losing party. But hey, right-wing blog-o-sphere doesn't need facts.

Thailand tottered on the brink of civil chaos. In May of this year the military stepped in. Soon, the army commander, General Prayuth, became prime minister and announced a national program of reconciliation. Today, the streets of Bangkok are calm. Critics of the new government claim this is only so because of “repression.” In fact, it seems clear that most Thais breathed in relief that they had escaped the scourge of civil war.

This longer passage repeats the royalists-elites' and the 'NCPO' translation of events for the rest of the world. Of course the elites and military understand that there was never a risk of civil war before the 'intervention'. Suthep and Co used the same MO as they did in 2006 & 2008, not to mention in the decades going back to the 60s....

And it is slimy how he rejects the charge of repression without denying that it happens but rather just with a nonsensical and unrelated comment that "most Thais are relieved..." - American right-winger thinks torture is OK - well, ... that is his world.

Still, most Thais are satisfied with the new government’s attempt at reconciliation

yes, here we have all seen the military-backed opinion polls which month after month approach 99.99999% approval ratings for the 'NCPO'

The author uses this tired old horse,

What do Americans know that the Thai people don’t? Criticism and condemnation should be based on understanding.

to segue into this anti-democratic nonsense:

The Thai people understand what outsiders fail to understand.

yes, we falang, like the author, clearly don't understand Thailand because it is so unique and different that no other ideas about democracy can possibly apply - which falls flat since many Thai people prefer democracy to 'interventions', but they only control their vote. They can't control the generals.

Once again, he leans on the 'most Thais' crutch ignoring that the uber-rich elite and uber-rich generals currently in the drivers seat are not 'most Thais'.

Then he pulls this gem out of his ... well, you know:

Americans, more than any other people, should understand that majoritarian rule is a potential threat to representative government. America has a Constitution that prevents majority tyranny. The Thais deserve such a constitution, too.

because of course, Thailand had that before the 2006 'intervention' and something less democratic before the 2014 'intervention', and the government which was overthrown by the 'intervention' was following the constitution, calling for elections and putting the question of governance before the people.

Some how this nutter ignores all of that.

The ending is classic BS...

Many of Thailand’s American critics understand neither the aspirations of the Thai people nor the Constitution of the United States.

which he just 'claims' but of course he did not actually discuss the "aspirations" of Thais, nor did he discuss ANY points about the US constitution which guarantees freedom of speech, human rights, universal suffrage, civilian rule over military rule, and provides system of government which is fully elected and not appointed... from the national level to the state level to the county level to the municipal level.

On the other hand what if Robert Amsterdam had written an article......pick the bones out of that.

what does that have to do with anything ?

oh, wait, ... I understand now, ... it's the

but, but, but Thaksin argument.

I personally find this guy article and the "but Thaksin" argument basically brain-dead.

As is your style of democracy, and lets face it you will not know of another style here will you. Apart from The Shins there have only been coups so how do you expect Thais to view it.

[ginjag]

junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:

Totally agree with the article. Do others commenting really believe that previously had a democratically elected government? The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government.

Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated, but we have yet to see them spend any time in jail... to show they mean business they need to investigate/charge and jail those at the top, this of course will not happen as it would also mean investigating the military, the RTP, all politicians (from all parties) including but not limited to the village chiefs. It will NEVER happen, well not in my lifetime.

Another one who fails to understand that there is a process to be gone through before people are jailed.

First they must be investigated to determine if they have committed crime, assuming they have then they are charged with the appropriate crime, prosecuted and allowed their day(s) in court where the prosecution must prove then guilty before a judge can sentence them. They are then allowed to appeal a guilty verdict

All this take time and there are many investigations and prosecutions in the pipe line, some of those from very high places, for example Tarit.

Isn't the logical point to come from that unless a party proves demonstrably that they are consistently and effectively anti corruption, that they are likely corrupt too.

As yet,they've cleared a few beaches.

And even more ironically, they have enacted populist subsidies which they used as an excuse to oust the last bunch.

All sides of thr system are bent in Thailand. Once any side starts locking up their own, I will start believing they are part of the solution.

I love you bit of applaud the PM with Quote They've cleared a few beaches" and this is your non biased summing up is it.

5 months of highlighting the past wrongs and you expect he should have already solved them.

1 example Phuket alone. beachfronts, taxis, and the corrupt police.

It would take a year to sort out that Dung alone.

How many personnel do you think it would take to go through the whole of Thai provinces all 77 of them ??? For you to say a few beaches in 5 months is mind boggling. Use some logic mate see reason, could you do it all in 5 months.

[MediaWatcher]

ramrod711, on 26 Oct 2014 - 17:29, said:

Still, most Thais are satisfied with the new government’s attempt at reconciliation. According to the result of a poll conducted in September with 1,534 people throughout the country, 43.16% said they were satisfied with it and 38.14% very satisfied, while 12.32% said they were a little satisfied and 6.38% not satisfied at all.

Most Thais want to give the new government a chance to implement a national campaign against corruption as well as the effort toward national reconciliation. They see these as crucial precursors to desperately needed constitutional reform.

Thais have had enough of majoritarian one-party rule. They believe in the new government’s commitment to restore elections in a new constitutional framework.

My first reaction is that Scott Chowtham doesn't read Thai Visa, I'm sure that he would have a whole different opinion if he was to read the comments of Fab 4 and the rest who support murder, arson and corruption. Make no mistake, when you support Thaksin, that is what you are standing in favor of. His rule of terror, complete with almost every member of his family, was nothing short of demagoguery.

When it comes to polls I always ask, why was it done and who benefits from its outcome. Here we see a poll of 1,534 people, from a population of 65,000,000, there is no mention where, or when, this poll took place, these can significantly skew any results.

[Denim]

' Elections in Thailand produced a government under previous regimes that were un-representative of large segments of Thai society. '

Whereas now , we have an unelected body representative of an even smaller segment of society.

The author seems confused. Having slated democracy, he now thinks Thailand is slowly moving towards it ? What he really meant to speak about was something he has direct experience of,

' Elections in America produced a government under previous regimes that were un-representative of large segments of American society. '

[Thai at Heart]

junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:

Totally agree with the article. Do others commenting really believe that previously had a democratically elected government? The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government.

Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated, but we have yet to see them spend any time in jail... to show they mean business they need to investigate/charge and jail those at the top, this of course will not happen as it would also mean investigating the military, the RTP, all politicians (from all parties) including but not limited to the village chiefs. It will NEVER happen, well not in my lifetime.

Another one who fails to understand that there is a process to be gone through before people are jailed.

First they must be investigated to determine if they have committed crime, assuming they have then they are charged with the appropriate crime, prosecuted and allowed their day(s) in court where the prosecution must prove then guilty before a judge can sentence them. They are then allowed to appeal a guilty verdict

All this take time and there are many investigations and prosecutions in the pipe line, some of those from very high places, for example Tarit.

Isn't the logical point to come from that unless a party proves demonstrably that they are consistently and effectively anti corruption, that they are likely corrupt too.

As yet,they've cleared a few beaches.

And even more ironically, they have enacted populist subsidies which they used as an excuse to oust the last bunch.

All sides of thr system are bent in Thailand. Once any side starts locking up their own, I will start believing they are part of the solution.

I love you bit of applaud the PM with Quote They've cleared a few beaches" and this is your non biased summing up is it.

5 months of highlighting the past wrongs and you expect he should have already solved them.

1 example Phuket alone. beachfronts, taxis, and the corrupt police.

It would take a year to sort out that Dung alone.

How many personnel do you think it would take to go through the whole of Thai provinces all 77 of them ??? For you to say a few beaches in 5 months is mind boggling. Use some logic mate see reason, could you do it all in 5 months.

This is cosmetic. It doesn't get to thr heart of the issue.

If they sequester every govt employees bank statement and asset list, they will discover who is bent.

Didn't they only partially disclose the assets in the ncp? They have done 10% of the job so far, and they only have a little time left.

They have barely scratched the surface of corruption. This is reality, not propaganda.

Thailand has an enormous corruption problem from buying pencils for schools to the army buying aircraft. EVERYTHING has a clip. EVERYTHING.

[Robby nz]

junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:

Totally agree with the article. Do others commenting really believe that previously had a democratically elected government? The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government.

Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated, but we have yet to see them spend any time in jail... to show they mean business they need to investigate/charge and jail those at the top, this of course will not happen as it would also mean investigating the military, the RTP, all politicians (from all parties) including but not limited to the village chiefs. It will NEVER happen, well not in my lifetime.

Another one who fails to understand that there is a process to be gone through before people are jailed.

First they must be investigated to determine if they have committed crime, assuming they have then they are charged with the appropriate crime, prosecuted and allowed their day(s) in court where the prosecution must prove then guilty before a judge can sentence them. They are then allowed to appeal a guilty verdict

All this take time and there are many investigations and prosecutions in the pipe line, some of those from very high places, for example Tarit.

you realize that under the current martial law 'environment' that process you describe all flies out the window, don't you?

No it does not.

The process still has to be gone through regardless of which court eventually tries a suspect.

The only thing that is different is there is no appeal against a military court decision.

You may not have noticed but most cases are still going to the civil courts.

[tbthailand]

This guy is writing for one of the ultra-right-wing blogs in the USA. It's a regular money-making, fear and hate-mongering industry that preys on people who can't think for themselves. Among the other articles on the home page now is one titled: Democratic Party: America's Resident Evil

This guy has his head penetrating his own behind that he manages to mix all of the PDRC + military + anti-democratic-elites nonsense into a single article. Let's see.... starting at the top:

How many of the world’s governments are truly “democratic”? How many are genuinely representative of their peoples?

that is a red-herring - it's not the question that concerns people living in Thailand under a military 'government'.

A simple-minded, inadequate test is whether their governments were elected by majority vote, In fact, elections alone are no guarantee of representative democracy.

This guy is too banal to believe, he is the one who is too simple-minded. Elections do not guarantee representative democracy... but military 'intervention' does guarantee the death of democracy.

Elections in Thailand produced a government under previous regimes that were un-representative of large segments of Thai society.

This is a bold-faced lie which he must have gotten straight from the PDRC... The last time I looked, the Thai people voted and sent a perfectly representative mix of MPs to the government house - PTP, Democrats, and many others. The fact that the opposition abrogated their responsibilities in representing the (not a majority) of Thais who elected them, took to the streets, called for a military 'intervention', blocked, not just boycotted, elections, speaks volumes about the source of the 'un-representative democracy' in Thailand.

It used corruption to buy votes

Obviously not very informed. International observers declared the elections fair, ... as did the leader of the losing party. But hey, right-wing blog-o-sphere doesn't need facts.

Thailand tottered on the brink of civil chaos. In May of this year the military stepped in. Soon, the army commander, General Prayuth, became prime minister and announced a national program of reconciliation. Today, the streets of Bangkok are calm. Critics of the new government claim this is only so because of “repression.” In fact, it seems clear that most Thais breathed in relief that they had escaped the scourge of civil war.

This longer passage repeats the royalists-elites' and the 'NCPO' translation of events for the rest of the world. Of course the elites and military understand that there was never a risk of civil war before the 'intervention'. Suthep and Co used the same MO as they did in 2006 & 2008, not to mention in the decades going back to the 60s....

And it is slimy how he rejects the charge of repression without denying that it happens but rather just with a nonsensical and unrelated comment that "most Thais are relieved..." - American right-winger thinks torture is OK - well, ... that is his world.

Still, most Thais are satisfied with the new government’s attempt at reconciliation

yes, here we have all seen the military-backed opinion polls which month after month approach 99.99999% approval ratings for the 'NCPO'

The author uses this tired old horse,

What do Americans know that the Thai people don’t? Criticism and condemnation should be based on understanding.

to segue into this anti-democratic nonsense:

The Thai people understand what outsiders fail to understand.

yes, we falang, like the author, clearly don't understand Thailand because it is so unique and different that no other ideas about democracy can possibly apply - which falls flat since many Thai people prefer democracy to 'interventions', but they only control their vote. They can't control the generals.

Once again, he leans on the 'most Thais' crutch ignoring that the uber-rich elite and uber-rich generals currently in the drivers seat are not 'most Thais'.

Then he pulls this gem out of his ... well, you know:

Americans, more than any other people, should understand that majoritarian rule is a potential threat to representative government. America has a Constitution that prevents majority tyranny. The Thais deserve such a constitution, too.

because of course, Thailand had that before the 2006 'intervention' and something less democratic before the 2014 'intervention', and the government which was overthrown by the 'intervention' was following the constitution, calling for elections and putting the question of governance before the people.

Some how this nutter ignores all of that.

The ending is classic BS...

Many of Thailand’s American critics understand neither the aspirations of the Thai people nor the Constitution of the United States.

which he just 'claims' but of course he did not actually discuss the "aspirations" of Thais, nor did he discuss ANY points about the US constitution which guarantees freedom of speech, human rights, universal suffrage, civilian rule over military rule, and provides system of government which is fully elected and not appointed... from the national level to the state level to the county level to the municipal level.

On the other hand what if Robert Amsterdam had written an article......pick the bones out of that.

what does that have to do with anything ?

oh, wait, ... I understand now, ... it's the

but, but, but Thaksin argument.

I personally find this guy article and the "but Thaksin" argument basically brain-dead.

As is your style of democracy, and lets face it you will not know of another style here will you. Apart from The Shins there have only been coups so how do you expect Thais to view it.

you are really a joke.

democracy is not 'my style'. Democracy is democracy, 'NCPO' is 'NCPO'.

No matter how focused you are on "the Shins", this isn't about them. I would have thought you'd have figured that out by now.

[tbthailand]

Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated, but we have yet to see them spend any time in jail... to show they mean business they need to investigate/charge and jail those at the top, this of course will not happen as it would also mean investigating the military, the RTP, all politicians (from all parties) including but not limited to the village chiefs. It will NEVER happen, well not in my lifetime.

Another one who fails to understand that there is a process to be gone through before people are jailed.

First they must be investigated to determine if they have committed crime, assuming they have then they are charged with the appropriate crime, prosecuted and allowed their day(s) in court where the prosecution must prove then guilty before a judge can sentence them. They are then allowed to appeal a guilty verdict

All this take time and there are many investigations and prosecutions in the pipe line, some of those from very high places, for example Tarit.

you realize that under the current martial law 'environment' that process you describe all flies out the window, don't you?

No it does not.

The process still has to be gone through regardless of which court eventually tries a suspect.

The only thing that is different is there is no appeal against a military court decision.

You may not have noticed but most cases are still going to the civil courts.

do you understand what martial law allows?

First, no need for probable cause.

Second, detention with out charges.

Third, trials is military courts with no appeal. Now they are choosing closed trials in certain cases.

Is it any wonder the 'PM' hasn't lifted martial law?

Not that it matters since under the interim constitution, anything the 'NCPO' does is defined as legal.

[Denim]

Actually, Thailand doesn't need to move slowly towards democracy because it has now achieved the democratic idyll of

' one man one vote '

Of course, that means just one man , and just the one vote. That man of course being the current prime minister.

[Robby nz]

Robby nz, on 26 Oct 2014 - 17:55, said:

MediaWatcher, on 26 Oct 2014 - 17:34, said:

junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:

Totally agree with the article. Do others commenting really believe that previously had a democratically elected government? The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government.

Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated, but we have yet to see them spend any time in jail... to show they mean business they need to investigate/charge and jail those at the top, this of course will not happen as it would also mean investigating the military, the RTP, all politicians (from all parties) including but not limited to the village chiefs. It will NEVER happen, well not in my lifetime.

Another one who fails to understand that there is a process to be gone through before people are jailed.

First they must be investigated to determine if they have committed crime, assuming they have then they are charged with the appropriate crime, prosecuted and allowed their day(s) in court where the prosecution must prove then guilty before a judge can sentence them. They are then allowed to appeal a guilty verdict

All this take time and there are many investigations and prosecutions in the pipe line, some of those from very high places, for example Tarit.

Robby, before commenting, on what I wrote, please understand it was in reply to junk1e.. who said "The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government." the sad truth is, nothing has really changed hence the reason for the first sentence I wrote "Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated." Please, do reply, but in context to what I replied to junk1e. If you can show what/where things have "changed" then do so... but be prepare for a lot of replies shooting you down...

You apparently have missed quite a lot in the last 6 months, but lets not go back that far.

Take last Fridays news for instance and we see several things that are being done :

Investigation into land-encroachment allegations against ex-DSI chief continues

BANGKOK: -- There will be no preferential treatment for anyone found encroaching on forest reserves, General Daophong Rattanasuwan, the minister of natural resources and environment, said yesterday.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....tment-minister/

BANGKOK: -- The Natural Resources and Environment Minister Gen Dapong Ratanasuwan has ordered a probe into alleged land encroachment in Nakhon Ratchasima by former Department of Special Investigation (DSI) chief Tarit Pengdit.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....-2#entry8578247

BANGKOK: -- THE NAMES of elderly people entitled to the old-age allowance were found to have been repeated in several villages in Kalasin's Muang district, prompting authorities to launch an investigation into withdrawals made over the past six months.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....allowance-scam/

BANGKOK: -- Teachers who affixed their signatures in documents pertaining to the bidding, construction and acceptance of the flawed futsal pitches will be held accountable unless they can prove otherwise.

Full Story: http://www.thaivisa....futsal-scandal/

BANGKOK: -- Inspection of government’s rice stockpiles to determine their quantity has been completed but the result cannot be disclosed yet pending DNA tests of rice samples to ascertain whether they are Thai rice of grains smuggled in from neighbouring countries.

Full Story: http://www.thaivisa....-their-origins/

Finance Ministry demands transparency in rice subsidy scheme

BANGKOK, 24 October 2014 (NNT) - The Finance Ministry has ordered all relevant government agencies involved in disbursing payments to farmers in the administration's 1,000 baht per rai subsidy program to perform their duties transparently.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....subsidy-scheme/

BANGKOK: -- A combined force of more than 50 drug enforcement officials and police yesterday searched and seized over 100 million baht of assets of a major drug dealer, Sarayuth Leelertrakul, in Wieng Papao district of Chiang Rai province.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....ealer-in-north/

Govt spokesman clarifies 114 million baht PR budget offered to his company

BANGKK: -- Government spokesman Caption Yongyuth Maiyalarp today denied of awarding over a hundred million baht public relations campaign budget to a company which he owned, saying it was untrue.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....to-his-company/

[ginjag]

Actually, Thailand doesn't need to move slowly towards democracy because it has now achieved the democratic idyll of

' one man one vote '

Of course, that means just one man , and just the one vote. That man of course being the current prime minister.

And that's good but if Thais do not like it--believe me they will take to the streets but at the minute they seem to be fairly content.. SOME not.

[mojorison]

Good lord, we are now taking political science class from a web designer. Next we'll be learning about neuroscience from a pole dancer. Spare me.

[JOC]

Actually, Thailand doesn't need to move slowly towards democracy because it has now achieved the democratic idyll of

' one man one vote '

Of course, that means just one man , and just the one vote. That man of course being the current prime minister.

And that's good but if Thais do not like it--believe me they will take to the streets but at the minute they seem to be fairly content.. SOME not.

And ofcourse the high level of content has nothing to do with martial law at all??

[Fatty123]

junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:

Totally agree with the article. Do others commenting really believe that previously had a democratically elected government? The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government.

Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated, but we have yet to see them spend any time in jail... to show they mean business they need to investigate/charge and jail those at the top, this of course will not happen as it would also mean investigating the military, the RTP, all politicians (from all parties) including but not limited to the village chiefs. It will NEVER happen, well not in my lifetime.

Another one who fails to understand that there is a process to be gone through before people are jailed.

First they must be investigated to determine if they have committed crime, assuming they have then they are charged with the appropriate crime, prosecuted and allowed their day(s) in court where the prosecution must prove then guilty before a judge can sentence them. They are then allowed to appeal a guilty verdict

All this take time and there are many investigations and prosecutions in the pipe line, some of those from very high places, for example Tarit.

Isn't the logical point to come from that unless a party proves demonstrably that they are consistently and effectively anti corruption, that they are likely corrupt too.

As yet,they've cleared a few beaches.

And even more ironically, they have enacted populist subsidies which they used as an excuse to oust the last bunch.

All sides of thr system are bent in Thailand. Once any side starts locking up their own, I will start believing they are part of the solution.

I love you bit of applaud the PM with Quote They've cleared a few beaches" and this is your non biased summing up is it.

5 months of highlighting the past wrongs and you expect he should have already solved them.

1 example Phuket alone. beachfronts, taxis, and the corrupt police.

It would take a year to sort out that Dung alone.

How many personnel do you think it would take to go through the whole of Thai provinces all 77 of them ??? For you to say a few beaches in 5 months is mind boggling. Use some logic mate see reason, could you do it all in 5 months.

This is cosmetic. It doesn't get to thr heart of the issue.

If they sequester every govt employees bank statement and asset list, they will discover who is bent.

Didn't they only partially disclose the assets in the ncp? They have done 10% of the job so far, and they only have a little time left.

They have barely scratched the surface of corruption. This is reality, not propaganda.

Thailand has an enormous corruption problem from buying pencils for schools to the army buying aircraft. EVERYTHING has a clip. EVERYTHING.

I've seen it first hand. When I worked in LOS, the rich owner of our school made us buy some polo shirts for an end of term show.They cost 400 baht (for Thai and western staff). I didn't think anything of it until I was in a local shopping centre a few days later. The very same shirts were being sold for 250baht each. My educated guess is that she probably got the shirts for much less than 250 baht each (seeing as she was buying dozens of them).

Despite owning holiday homes in France, Singapore and Hong Kong, the owner still wanted to fleece her staff. Unbelievable.

[mojorison]

Actually, Thailand doesn't need to move slowly towards democracy because it has now achieved the democratic idyll of

' one man one vote '

Of course, that means just one man , and just the one vote. That man of course being the current prime minister.

You nailed it. Well done.

[JOC]

Actually, Thailand doesn't need to move slowly towards democracy because it has now achieved the democratic idyll of

' one man one vote '

Of course, that means just one man , and just the one vote. That man of course being the current prime minister.

But Thaksin...........................................

[Fatty123]

If it looks like fascism., smells like fascism...

[MediaWatcher]

Reply to Robby NZ...

I know what has been happening, BUT I also know that very little has changed.. yes, there have been numerous investigations, most simply fade away, my point is, and you seem to fail understanding it is that so far little has changed, everyday we still see corruption, we still see the RTP taking "tea" money, happened to my wife only last week, we still see jetski scams on Patong beach, we still see cops siding with scammers, do I need to go on. How many charges/convictions have we seen with the rice scams...very little...how many military officers investigated, how many high level RTP investigated.... you really need to open you eyes, and mind, to the truth, not believe what the junta wants you to believe. I truly hope things do change, in a positive direction, for ALL Thais, but so far...nope, all talk. Thailand needs to mature and get over this coup will fix the problems mentality... The military has been in control, since 1932, longer, close to 50% of the time, than any single political party... and look at Thailand's political system.... fail fail fail. The coups have never succeeded and so far neither has this one.

[ginjag]

Reply to Robby NZ...

I know what has been happening, BUT I also know that very little has changed.. yes, there have been numerous investigations, most simply fade away, my point is, and you seem to fail understanding it is that so far little has changed, everyday we still see corruption, we still see the RTP taking "tea" money, happened to my wife only last week, we still see jetski scams on Patong beach, we still see cops siding with scammers, do I need to go on. How many charges/convictions have we seen with the rice scams...very little...how many military officers investigated, how many high level RTP investigated.... you really need to open you eyes, and mind, to the truth, not believe what the junta wants you to believe. I truly hope things do change, in a positive direction, for ALL Thais, but so far...nope, all talk. Thailand needs to mature and get over this coup will fix the problems mentality... The military has been in control, since 1932, longer, close to 50% of the time, than any single political party... and look at Thailand's political system.... fail fail fail. The coups have never succeeded and so far neither has this one.

Since 1932, Nelly Dean ??? omg NOT yet after 5 months tell us in 3 years, yes give him 3 years and see if there are any improvements ?? If not I will be ante coup.