Thai-US ties in 'Sleeping Beauty' mode

[Jonmarleesco]

'... Thai-US relations are still fragile, subjected to political whimpers ...' Political whimpers? There might well be a lot of those, but I assume the writer means whims.

'... Indeed, it was set to be in "The Sleeping Beauty" mode.' Waiting for which prince to administer the kiss of life?

[tonbridgebrit]

"Nostalgia and memory really help in this time of Thai-US frozen ties due to the power seizure on May 22."

The Nation is telling us something that we all know, but still, it's important to remind us all, as some of us seem to have forgotten this point.

Once we see an election, and the junta or Thaksin is the newly elected government, then, then "Sleeping Beauty" will wake up.

[Neeranam]

"Nostalgia and memory really help in this time of Thai-US frozen ties due to the power seizure on May 22."

The Nation is telling us something that we all know, but still, it's important to remind us all, as some of us seem to have forgotten this point.

Once we see an election, and the junta or Thaksin is the newly elected government, then, then "Sleeping Beauty" will wake up.

Are you seriously saying that Thaksin has a chance of becoming the next PM?

[Johnniey]

Things change. America once was a superpower but now 90% of her people are worse off than The average Thai, financially and definitely spiritually.

the country is hugely in debt and other countries have no respect.73% of adults are taking mind numbing medication ie prescribed antidepressants, tranquiliser or opiates. Many of the rest take booze and pot.

Thailand on the other hand was once a country that could only offer elephants, has happy free people.

I am not from the USA and have many issues with them as a country, as I do with my own native UK but saying 90% of the USA people are financially worse off than Thais is ludicrous. You have made the most ridiculous statement I have seen today. Thank you for making me laugh so hard.

I won't get into the spiritual statement as I wouldn't want to offend. 73% of adults are taking mind numbing medication???/ Please Johnniey tell me where you get these awe-inspiring statistics? I thought that they stopped information like these years ago from the back of PG tips cards.

Please keep these sweeping statements coming, as they keep my spirituality high.

Ive seen that figure somewhere but lost it.

For antidepressants ALONE it is 11%.!!http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/astounding-increase-in-antidepressant-use-by-americans-201110203624

10 % on illicit drugs

21% so far and still to find Painkillers and tranquilisers and alcohol.

[Fred Flinstone]

Thailand is like the uncle at the Xmas dinner who has a problem with keeping his hands to himself and a Big mouth.

A time comes he is tolerated but not really cherished or even wanted-

The whole thing is embarrassing to witness -

Its remarkable how many westerners regard Thailand now as a bit of a seedy dark character -

Has some relation to the others (world)

But really such a piece of shit under the current Junta

[gemini81]

Thailand is like the uncle at the Xmas dinner who has a problem with keeping his hands to himself and a Big mouth.

A time comes he is tolerated but not really cherished or even wanted-

The whole thing is embarrassing to witness -

Its remarkable how many westerners regard Thailand now as a bit of a seedy dark character -

Has some relation to the others (world)

But really such a piece of shit under the current Junta

What compels you to reside here then in such a negative, dismal view I wonder? Or do some of us like those dark, seedy things. Was off to work in Thailand 10 years back, friends said: 'hey, watch out for thieves, HIV, and loads of guns!' I don't form opinions based on movies, but I can see many do! Sometimes life here is like a movie..

[Fred Flinstone]

Quote : Washington continues to demand an inclusive process that would lead to an early election.

I always have a hard time grasping how a country who claims to be the greatest democracy in the world can so blatantly issue orders to other countries, regardless of the fact that these countries are sovereign.

Does it mean that the US herald democracy strictly within their own territory, but feel free to bully smaller nations and order them around in a totally un-democratic manner ? What a pathetic show of hypocrisy.

No your mistaken - they are simply telling the people holding up the Bank (Nation) to release the county back to its natural state-

Where people decide its fate and direction not the hijackers

[kerrysum]

"It is pivotal that the US and Thailand understand internal political dynamics and the process affecting their bilateral ties at various transitional periods."

Get real. The only dynamic which matters in international politics is: "Show me the money/power"

Exactly what one would assume..... Money and power...... My advice is, wake up world.....

[tonbridgebrit]

"Nostalgia and memory really help in this time of Thai-US frozen ties due to the power seizure on May 22."

The Nation is telling us something that we all know, but still, it's important to remind us all, as some of us seem to have forgotten this point.

Once we see an election, and the junta or Thaksin is the newly elected government, then, then "Sleeping Beauty" will wake up.

Are you seriously saying that Thaksin has a chance of becoming the next PM?

Well, the only possibilities are the general, or Thaksin, or Abhisit and his Democrat Party.

A three horse race (yes, all other parties taking part are basically making up the numbers, they're also-rans) will mean that Abhisit is splitting the anti-Thaksin vote. This might let Thaksin in.

Now, if Abhisit pulls out, the Democrat voters are, surely, going to vote for the junta, and not Thaksin. Hence, a two horse race between the general and Thaksin will, I think, likely produce the junta as the democratically elected government of Thailand.

Whatever happens, I don't think Abhisit and the Democrats will ever be the elected government of Thailand. The Democrats mainly represent a minority group in Thailand, ie. the Chinese middle-class. They can't win an election, because they haven't got enough voters.

[bangon04]

I made an effort to discuss this Nation article with my Mrs. She is a well-educated Thai, and she really didn't have a clue what this article was trying to say, and had even less interest in the historical background upon which the article is predicated.

I wonder if such an article would be written in a Thai language newspaper?

[jayboy]

Thailand never officially declared war on the US as the Thai Ambassador refused to deliver the declaration. While Johnniey is wrong on his/her stats, the US is no longer the country it was. It has no manufacturing base, it is destroying the middle/working class and can't win a war. It's economy is and has been a "house of cards". It is no longer a "democracy" it is a plutocracy/oligarchy or as some say corptocracy that has abandoned it's people for the 1%, who along with the banksters and Wall Street criminals rule. The past 2 presidents have destroyed the Constitution and the country is rapidly turning into a surveillance/police state. The US needs Thailand and SE Asia as a hedge against China, and SE Asia needs the US as a hedge against China. Let us hope that both the US and Thailand get their house in order.

The statement that Thailand never declared war on the US is so often repeated that it has come to be taken as the truth.It is however completely untrue.The story goes that the Ambassador in Washington, MR Seni Pramoj, simply placed the document declaring war in a drawer - and thus Thailand was never officially at war with US.The story is however fantasy (not denied however later on by Seni himself) and a copy of the declaration of war which Seni handed over is retained in US Government archives.It is true that Seni himself was probably sympathetic to the allied cause but that is a different point.The legend also runs that since the US was not at war with THailand it vetoed the British wish to exact reparations from the Thais after the war.The US position is accurately stated but it had nothing to do with the fantasy of Seni and his non declaration of war.It had much more to do with the US wish to curb British imperalism in the Far East (ironic in view of what happened later) and to extend its own influence.

[sgtsabai]

jayboy, interesting, can you provide links to said subject? I've read many places in historical accounts about Thailand's Ambassador not delivering the declaration but I've never heard that he actually did. As far as the veto, entirely possible that the US, soon to become the American Empire, would veto just to curb British influence. While not as bad as the crop of so-called politicians we've been burdened with the last 40 something years they weren't exactly motivated by purely altruistic purposes even then.

[sgtsabai]

I did a quick search and find nothing to substantiate your statement. Everything I found supports Seni did not deliver and in fact worked with the OSS to form a Thai underground that fought the Japanese. I would be interested in reading Reynolds' book. I found the following amongst many. If this all ends up jumbled together please forgive, for whatever reason I can't get paragraphs etc. to work on this forum.

Seni's claim and the actual declaration notice's delivery are described in Thailand's Secret War, by E. Bruce Reynolds, Cambridge University Press, 2005, pp 19-20. After the Japanese invasion of Thailand and the Thais' January 25, 1942 declaration, Seni told Assistant Secretary of State Adolf Berle on january 29 that he had received no official notice. Formal notice of the declaration came February 2, via the Swiss Foreign Ministry and the US embassy in Berne. On February 11, he told State that he would not deliver the notice if it were to arrive. This suited the US and Seni for various reasons. Reynolds footnotes Thai criticisms of Seni's veracity, but does not validate them.

The Seri Thai - Thailand's World War 2 Resistance Movement

http://www.thereformedbuddhist.com/2010/08/seri-thai-thailands-world-war-2.html

[willyumiii]

January 21 1942 - Thailand declared war on the US and UK.

Yes, they did...

But the U.S. took the " Mai Pen Rai" attitude the Thais are famous for...

And ignored their declaration of war.

[sgtsabai]

You are right, the Ambassador, in agreement with the US, never delived "the document". We are speaking "technicalities". He and the US (OSS) were already plotting the Thai resistance. I'd like to read the book, but the link is a short but interesting read. My wife's grandfather was one of the resistance, ahem, many of whom were, gasp, commies.

[willyumiii]

Things change. America once was a superpower but now 90% of her people are worse off than The average Thai, financially and definitely spiritually.

the country is hugely in debt and other countries have no respect.73% of adults are taking mind numbing medication ie prescribed antidepressants, tranquiliser or opiates. Many of the rest take booze and pot.

Thailand on the other hand was once a country that could only offer elephants, has happy free people.

Thailand on the other hand was once a country that could only offer elephants, has happy free people.

Happy, ( ignorance is bliss?)

free,

poor,

stupid,

careless,

corrupt,

poorly educated,

unmotivated,

environmentally unaware,

xenophobic,

Major drug and alcohol problems.

blatant prostitution

slavery,

human trafficing

and under military rule....

O n the up side, they still have a few elephants left too!

I just know most Americans wish they were as well off as the Thai people ! 555!

P.S. The USA is still a super power!

Strongest military, economic, technological, and industrial country on earth.

Oh..and they still elect their government too!

by chance are you Thai Johnniey ?

educated where?

[h90]

"Nostalgia and memory really help in this time of Thai-US frozen ties due to the power seizure on May 22."

The Nation is telling us something that we all know, but still, it's important to remind us all, as some of us seem to have forgotten this point.

Once we see an election, and the junta or Thaksin is the newly elected government, then, then "Sleeping Beauty" will wake up.

Are you seriously saying that Thaksin has a chance of becoming the next PM?

By using another family member as nominee it is possible.

At Somchai and Yingluck government, basically Thaksin was PM.

[sgtsabai]

Anybody that thinks the US is still a democracy hasn't been paying attention for the last 40 years. A rapidly devolving police/surveillance state, it is owned lock, stock and barrel by Wall Street criminals, banksters, plutocrats and corporations. So called elected politicians answer only to their real masters and they sure aren't the people. While still the most powerful military in the world, it hasn't won a real war since WWII, and that with a lot of help. It is a failing empire and all the world except the sheeple in Amerika see it. Thailand is far from perfect, as are most countries, but I'd much rather be here and with any luck at all will never return to the Corporate Police State of Amerika. Always possible Thailand will get worse instead of better. The general and his "moral" campaign scares hell out of me, then again so does the Shinawatara family.