Thailand to 'allow' second DNA test for British murder accused

[mcm991]

These tests if conducted properly would show up any tampering. You simply can't remove all the DNA without destroying the subject.

If the test show up the same result it will put a lot of people's minds at rest that these two are the guilty party

BUT if they did 100 tests it would't convince the Thaibashers on here, who should be congratulated for being the biggest bunch of sweetie wives on the planet

Your first point is factually incorrect.

Your second point is more incorrect than even your first point.

I don't understand your third point.

(I simply don't understand what Thaibashing has to do with this. This is about a murder case that has been poorly dealt with. What is with the Thaibashing?)

[kkup]

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These tests if conducted properly would show up any tampering. You simply can't remove all the DNA without destroying the subject.

If the test show up the same result it will put a lot of people's minds at rest that these two are the guilty party

BUT if they did 100 tests it would't convince the Thaibashers on here, who should be congratulated for being the biggest bunch of sweetie wives on the planet alt=clap2.gif>

Your first point is factually incorrect.

Your second point is more incorrect than even your first point.

I don't understand your third point.

(I simply don't understand what Thaibashing has to do with this. This is about a murder case that has been poorly dealt with. What is with the Thaibashing?)

Not Thaibashers, Factbashers

[Halion]

Bloody waste of time and mere propaganda unless an accredited and independent body is allowed to conduct these tests. The PM seems to fail to comprehend that it is not only the tests that are controversial it is the whole dam system.

[AleG]

Oh they're going to allow them to test them again? Does this mean they are going to allow the most likely real murderers to refuse to give their DNA again as well? What's the point of doing the same test on the same people again?

I would have thought that this was obvious!

They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so.......

it seems that they are trying for a "best of three" result.

Would be cheaper and quicker to do Rock, Scissors, Paper though, and probably more reliable.

This "They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so" comes from the conspiracists grapevine or do you know it for a fact? In other words, cite?

Because from the actual news I've read the two suspects didn't show up for the first round of tests done on coworkers.

[Johnsen]

Amazing, 4 pages in and not one post from the team of trolls... That in itself suggests something.

[DennisF]

Oh they're going to allow them to test them again? Does this mean they are going to allow the most likely real murderers to refuse to give their DNA again as well? What's the point of doing the same test on the same people again?

I would have thought that this was obvious!

They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so.......

it seems that they are trying for a "best of three" result.

Would be cheaper and quicker to do Rock, Scissors, Paper though, and probably more reliable.

This "They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so" comes from the conspiracists grapevine or do you know it for a fact? In other words, cite?

Because from the actual news I've read the two suspects didn't show up for the first round of tests done on coworkers.

Then you should look at the photos, both the suspects were in the lineup on day 1 of the testing.

I doubt they were there to serve drinks.

The actual news is somewhat restricted here in what it can and cannot say.

Edited October 29, 2014 by DennisF

[xygote]

Oh they're going to allow them to test them again? Does this mean they are going to allow the most likely real murderers to refuse to give their DNA again as well? What's the point of doing the same test on the same people again?

I would have thought that this was obvious!

They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so.......

it seems that they are trying for a "best of three" result.

Would be cheaper and quicker to do Rock, Scissors, Paper though, and probably more reliable.

This "They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so" comes from the conspiracists grapevine or do you know it for a fact? In other words, cite?

Because from the actual news I've read the two suspects didn't show up for the first round of tests done on coworkers.

I may be wrong (it has happened before) but weren't they photographed in the line for testing when they rounded up all the foreign workers for DNA testing early on?

check back in one of the other threads, I think you'll see my point.

[Luang]

Amazing, 4 pages in and not one post from the team of trolls... That in itself suggests something.

Very odd indeed. Not even one surfacing!

[Luang]

Oh they're going to allow them to test them again? Does this mean they are going to allow the most likely real murderers to refuse to give their DNA again as well? What's the point of doing the same test on the same people again?

I would have thought that this was obvious!

They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so.......

it seems that they are trying for a "best of three" result.

Would be cheaper and quicker to do Rock, Scissors, Paper though, and probably more reliable.

This "They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so" comes from the conspiracists grapevine or do you know it for a fact? In other words, cite?

Because from the actual news I've read the two suspects didn't show up for the first round of tests done on coworkers.

I may be wrong (it has happened before) but weren't they photographed in the line for testing when they rounded up all the foreign workers for DNA testing early on?

check back in one of the other threads, I think you'll see my point.

You are correct.

[Yann55]

It's strange how AFP's articles on any subject involving Thailand i the past few months always seem to end up with the same line, this time formulated thus :

Quote : Thailand was already struggling to restore its tarnished image as a tourist haven after a May coup saw martial law imposed across the country.

The journalist(s) who work for AFP here seem to use it as a kind of 'signature', or perhaps he/she/they are just too lazy to come up with an original conclusion for each specific article. Personnally I'm beginning to find their mantra a little bit irritating.

[Travelman868]

A second test to compare with what. That is the key thing. No-one is doubting the tests. Everyone is doubting the samples which they were compared with. Where did these samples come from?

"Unbroken chain of evidence " I bet they cannot show that to the satisfaction of the UK police. The only reliable DNA would be sperm from Hannah

and a sample from the boys. Of course they have been in the hands of the police for some time.

If they have the original sample from Hannah this should show DNA from her and the assailant mixed together.

Every time I read about this case I think of the Red Bull boy.

[AleG]

I would have thought that this was obvious!

They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so.......

it seems that they are trying for a "best of three" result.

Would be cheaper and quicker to do Rock, Scissors, Paper though, and probably more reliable.

This "They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so" comes from the conspiracists grapevine or do you know it for a fact? In other words, cite?

Because from the actual news I've read the two suspects didn't show up for the first round of tests done on coworkers.

I may be wrong (it has happened before) but weren't they photographed in the line for testing when they rounded up all the foreign workers for DNA testing early on?

check back in one of the other threads, I think you'll see my point.

No I won't see it because I'm not going to comb through 30+ threads each running 30+ pages to see if I can find a picture... geez

Cite? anyone?

[jabis]

It's strange how AFP's articles on any subject involving Thailand i the past few months always seem to end up with the same line, this time formulated thus :

Quote : Thailand was already struggling to restore its tarnished image as a tourist haven after a May coup saw martial law imposed across the country.

The journalist(s) who work for AFP here seem to use it as a kind of 'signature', or perhaps he/she/they are just too lazy to come up with an original conclusion for each specific article. Personnally I'm beginning to find their mantra a little bit irritating.

Noticed the same - it seems much of the articles revolving around this case tend to copy-paste at least 1/3 of the previous articles in. Crappy editing.

[smedly]

It seems they are confident.

The British have the DNA from the victims and they will be able to compare.

Let's hope the truth comes out and stop the speculation.

Truth and facts are completely unrelated to the speculation that's been going on, it's an emotional issue; some people have tied up their emotions to a particular scenario and anything that goes against that will be taken as a personal slight and be resisted.

You can see it right now in this thread how some people are already weaving some new conspiracies to rationalize away why a positive test (one confirming the guilt of the Burmese men) will not be accepted. Not only that, it would even be held as proof of how much deeper the conspiracy is.

there is nothing new here, the simple truth is that most people both in Thailand and abroad do not trust the integrity of this investigation and IMHO have every right, having DNA retested by the same people that were involved in the first round of testing achieves nothing - if the tests were fabricated first time then it is likely going to be the same result in a retest and people will still have the same speculations about the outcome - we are no further on

To stop the speculation more details need to be provided about who were and what this new test will involve - simple

[smedly]

I strongly worry that what could have happened is the myanmar guys fluids etc were planted on the victim. That would explain why police would allow the test. How would the Brit police have a way around this? In fact by pushing for second test they could be doing more damage if this is the case. The headline BRIT TEST CONFIRM MYANMAR MATCH

you cannot simply plant DNA - all the samples must line up correctly with the type of body fluids be examined/tested both from the victim and the suspects which are then verified and cross referenced

[thailandchilli]

How sad, just found Dave Millers facebook page, his friends and family are still updating, his brother posted just a couple of days ago and its clear with all the links and posts for the change.org petition that the whole family backed it 100%

To all of those troll posters here who kept belittling the petition and how in your views it made no difference. I hope you now feel ashamed.

https://www.facebook.com/dangerdaveuk

[metisdead]

A post in a foreign language has been removed as well as a reply.

English is the only acceptable language anywhere on ThaiVisa including Classifieds, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

Posts containing content from CSILA have been removed. Facebook links in and of themselves are not a problem, the content can be. In other words, we don't allow rumors and that site is just that, a rumor mill. Also see here:

Any posts which can be construed as rumor mongering are not allowed.

Edited October 29, 2014 by metisdead

[Fatty123]

Well at least we've had a balanced solution put forward by the Surat Thani governor (according to a paper we can't quote- BKP).

He suggests (wait for it)...

A curfew of migrant workers on Samui, Phangan and Koh Tao (indoors by 10pm chaps). The tourist board are in agreement it seems. Will this apply to western workers in those areas (teachers, businessmen etc)? This new proposal applies to 'Migrant workers'.

Not racist at all to force non Thais inside after 10pm, of course. As we know, Thais are perfect.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Fatty123

[DennisF]

I would have thought that this was obvious!

They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so.......

it seems that they are trying for a "best of three" result.

Would be cheaper and quicker to do Rock, Scissors, Paper though, and probably more reliable.

This "They were apparently cleared in the first round of testing, their DNA supposedly "matched" in the second round so" comes from the conspiracists grapevine or do you know it for a fact? In other words, cite?

Because from the actual news I've read the two suspects didn't show up for the first round of tests done on coworkers.

I may be wrong (it has happened before) but weren't they photographed in the line for testing when they rounded up all the foreign workers for DNA testing early on?

check back in one of the other threads, I think you'll see my point.

No I won't see it because I'm not going to comb through 30+ threads each running 30+ pages to see if I can find a picture... geez

Cite? anyone?

If you cant be bothered to check the facts for yourself before posting, why bother posting?

Cant see anyone else being your skivvy cause you cant be ar5ed to do your own research

[koele2]

The samples taken from her body have been handled by the Koh Tao police. What if someone decided to do a switcharoo? How can anyone be confident in the chain of custody for the DNA sample taken from her body? DNA evidence is a dead end once you can't be sure that the DNA sample from her body is actually the DNA sample from her body. The only people who are sure are the police, not suprising.

[lausie]

Whilst I understand that British police are in Thailand purely to observe, I highly suspect that they are putting a huge amount of pressure on RTP.

They can't interfer, but I have no doubt that they are asking questions, even if rhetorical in nature. If sufficient answers can't be provided, the RTP may start to feel professionally embarrassed. This is pure speculation, of course, but I highly suspect the British Police are behind the sudden decision by BKK uni boy to provide DNA and the retesting of the Burmese 2.

I sincerely hope that both bodies were subject to a thorough forensic examination when they were returned to the UK. Can you imagine if the new results come back and the UK suddenly pull their own DNA profile reports from their breifcases for comparitive purposes. Ok I doubt that would happen, but it bloody well should!

[Gonzo the Face]

It seems they are confident.

The British have the DNA from the victims and they will be able to compare.

Let's hope the truth comes out and stop the speculation.

I would hope that the Brits were able to get and retain samples from the victims before burial. That the bodies weren't, shall we say sanitized before sending home.

It may also be of interest to know who made the statement allowing the 2nd test. Gen PM stated it but was it his initiative or that of the big copper. If the big copper wasn't aware of the announcement earlier, then there could be very interesting times ahead.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Gonzo the Face

[bruceybonus]

Here is an interesting question for you and extremely pertinent!

Why was Nom Sod EVER suspected to be prime suspect?

He was in Bangkok!!!!!!!!!, so why would the police ever connect him in the first place.

Most murders are committed by people that you know. However, Nom Sod has no connection to the suspects whatsoever, so why was he suspected?

If you can answer this question then you have solved the case imo

[bangrak]

General, PM, no, please, not '...we will conduct another test' but 'we will allow another test to be made by independent agencies', please, otherwise this next test (which would be a third one, not a second one) will have as much credibility as the second one (considering that the first test both Burmese had taken, together with 100+ other people on Tao, was negative for all partcipants...)!

[DennisF]

Whilst I understand that British police are in Thailand purely to observe, I highly suspect that they are putting a huge amount of pressure on RTP.

They can't interfer, but I have no doubt that they are asking questions, even if rhetorical in nature. If sufficient answers can't be provided, the RTP may start to feel professionally embarrassed. This is pure speculation, of course, but I highly suspect the British Police are behind the sudden decision by BKK uni boy to provide DNA and the retesting of the Burmese 2.

I sincerely hope that both bodies were subject to a thorough forensic examination when they were returned to the UK. Can you imagine if the new results come back and the UK suddenly pull their own DNA profile reports from their breifcases for comparitive purposes. Ok I doubt that would happen, but it bloody well should!

Stranger things have happened.

For sure they did not come here empty handed or empty headed, these guys are pros.

I am certain they are getting all the extra help they need from the British Embassy.

[mcm991]

I strongly worry that what could have happened is the myanmar guys fluids etc were planted on the victim. That would explain why police would allow the test. How would the Brit police have a way around this? In fact by pushing for second test they could be doing more damage if this is the case. The headline BRIT TEST CONFIRM MYANMAR MATCH

you cannot simply plant DNA - all the samples must line up correctly with the type of body fluids be examined/tested both from the victim and the suspects which are then verified and cross referenced

While I agree with the sentiment you express....... in reality there are many ways that results can be manipulated.

It all comes down to the trust and confidence one has in the testers.

It is a bit like democracy. Does not matter how many people vote for you ...... it is the people who count the votes that control the power.

The testers in this case have to be seen as completely independant and impartial. As do the samples they are testing.

Otherwise .... same same.

[DennisF]

Here is an interesting question for you and extremely pertinent!

Why was Nom Sod EVER suspected to be prime suspect?

He was in Bangkok!!!!!!!!!, so why would the police ever connect him in the first place.

Most murders are committed by people that you know. However, Nom Sod has no connection to the suspects whatsoever, so why was he suspected?

If you can answer this question then you have solved the case imo

You're new here aren't you?

[bruceybonus]

Amazing, 4 pages in and not one post from the team of trolls... That in itself suggests something.

Very odd indeed. Not even one surfacing!

Both recovering from rsi of the tongue and fingers. Very difficult to lick arse and type at the same time

Edited October 29, 2014 by bruceybonus

[JLCrab]

How sad, just found Dave Millers facebook page, his friends and family are still updating, his brother posted just a couple of days ago and its clear with all the links and posts for the change.org petition that the whole family backed it 100%

To all of those troll posters here who kept belittling the petition and how in your views it made no difference. I hope you now feel ashamed.

https://www.facebook.com/dangerdaveuk

The change.org petition stated:

This being said, we demand a full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths.

The above demand most likely had little or no influence on the UK Government's decision to send an investigating team to Thailand as that decision was made according to documented UK FCO and Police chief's procedure and was probably well in the works before the petition was even started.

BTW the official UK Government Petition started by the same Mr. Harkins who started the Change.org petition now stands at 10 signatures up from 9 yesterday.

Edited October 29, 2014 by JLCrab

[Luang]

Here is an interesting question for you and extremely pertinent!

Why was Nom Sod EVER suspected to be prime suspect?

He was in Bangkok!!!!!!!!!, so why would the police ever connect him in the first place.

Most murders are committed by people that you know. However, Nom Sod has no connection to the suspects whatsoever, so why was he suspected?

If you can answer this question then you have solved the case imo

Him and his uncle were named as suspects initially:

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe/