Jingthing Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Oh please, I've said it many times ... action and risks are needed by BOTH sides to move this forward. The blame for lack of success isn't on one side, and the action needed to bring any possible solution isn't on one side either. Yes, the settlement expansion sucks but so does so called "more moderate" Abbas praising terrorists as heroic martyrs. My current understanding of Israeli public is this (and don't take this as gospel, I am NOT Israeli): The majority of Israelis still DO want a two state solution. The majority of Israelis are OK with the status quo for the immediate future. Realization that the status quo won't work FOREVER though. The majority of Israelis can't accept the position of the Palestinian leadership as being helpful to bring about any real hope of a two state solution. So yes Israelis being Israelis (obviously biased just as any side would be) place most of the blame on the Palestinian but many also understand their side has blame as well. Edited November 6, 2014 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japsportscarmad Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Oh please, I've said it many times ... action and risks are needed by BOTH sides to move this forward. The blame for lack of success isn't on one side, and the action needed to bring any possible solution isn't on one side either. Yes, the settlement expansion sucks but so does so called "more moderate" Abbas praising terrorists as heroic martyrs. Ok I can't disagree on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japsportscarmad Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) :-) Edited November 6, 2014 by japsportscarmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seastallion Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Oh please, I've said it many times ... action and risks are needed by BOTH sides to move this forward. The blame for lack of success isn't on one side, and the action needed to bring any possible solution isn't on one side either. Yes, the settlement expansion sucks but so does so called "more moderate" Abbas praising terrorists as heroic martyrs. Ok I can't disagree on this. Perhaps not disagree, but when the lives and futures of two peoples are at stake, "settlements", actual physical colonies displacing families, versus mere words....Is that really a valid excuse to hold the current position? My mum always used to say (still does), "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me". Words. They said "such and such" so we will displace some more of them. The immense inequities continue; Stones vs machine guns, home made rockets vs helicopter gunships and tanks,..... The imbalance is so heavily tilted. The first sincere steps must come from the aggressor. Israel must back off and give back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 If you are going to have an off-topic discussion, and this appears to be somewhat tangential, please make sure you keep it civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lissos Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The immense inequities continue; Stones vs machine guns, home made rockets vs helicopter gunships and tanks,..... The imbalance is so heavily tilted. The first sincere steps must come from the aggressor. Israel must back off and give back. Cry me a river about military imbalance, because when the air raid sirens start wailing, 'fairness' and 'balance' is not a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) "Little old Israel" knocked out it's neighbours with a king hit by attacking first. Israel was the aggressor. You and your comrades need to read some history. Israel was not "the aggressor". In 1967, the Arabs threatened to destroy Israel over and over again before Israel pulled the trigger and Israel was under actual attack from Arab terrorists well in advance. In 1965, 35 raids were conducted against Israel. In 1966, the number increased to 41. In just the first four months of 1967, 37 attacks were launched. On May 15 Egyptian troops began moving into the Sinai and massing near the Israeli border. By May 18, Syrian troops were ready for war along the Golan Heights. Nasser ordered the UN Emergency Force, stationed in the Sinai since 1956, to withdraw on May 16. On May 22, Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli shipping. This blockade cut off Israels only supply route with Asia and stopped the flow of oil from its main supplier. Nasser challenged Israel to fight almost daily. Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight. King Hussein of Jordan signed a defense pact with Egypt on May 30. Nasser then proclaimed: "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." President Abdur Rahman Aref of Iraq joined in: The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clearto wipe Israel off the map. On June 4, Iraq joined the military alliance with Egypt, Jordan and Syria. The Arab declarations were matched by the mobilization of Arab forces. Approximately 250,000 troops, more than 2,000 tanks and 700 aircraft ringed Israel. Of course Israel struck first and hard. They were provoked relentlessly and they would have been stupid not to. Edited November 7, 2014 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seastallion Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The immense inequities continue; Stones vs machine guns, home made rockets vs helicopter gunships and tanks,..... The imbalance is so heavily tilted. The first sincere steps must come from the aggressor. Israel must back off and give back. Cry me a river about military imbalance, because when the air raid sirens start wailing, 'fairness' and 'balance' is not a concern. I take your point, though you missed mine. Of the two sides, one has to make the first positive move. I'm suggesting that it should be the side for whom the odds are heavily stacked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Israel has been making "positive moves" for 66 years. They have offered numerous peace deals. It is time for the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and agree to peace. Edited November 7, 2014 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dexterm Posted November 7, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Israel has been making "positive moves" for 66 years. They have offered numerous peace deals. It is time for the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and agree to peace. The best of these so called peace deals were Camp David when Ehud Barak offered 97% (not 100%) of land including swaps of 67 borders..then Barak did a disappearing act in the Camp’s grounds, and in 2008 Olmert’s as a last gasp effort just as he was about to be tried for corruption...Abbas didn’t reject it, just that it was too close to Olmert’s political demise. Both initiatives worth considering but were immediately undermined by the Israeli right wing...in 2000 the war criminal Ariel Sharon took a stroll on Temple Mount along with 1,000 bodyguards (not that he was expecting any trouble..ho hoho..shades of today’s Zionist provocations eh) provoking the 2nd intifada and his election victory. In 2008 Israel provoked the Gaza War and peace negotiations swept under the carpet.. All the while Israel expanding colonies on the West Bank, and now having gained recognition way back in 1993 from Arafat of the State of Israel, Netanyahu (an now you have started to parrot it too) now wants recognition of the racist/religionist Jewish State of Israel, thus condemning 20% of its population to instant 2nd class citizenship...not exactly acts of good faith. The worst Israeli deal was the right wing Israeli proposal allowing Palestinians in the West Bank to stay (how magnanimous of them!) as non Israeli citizens holding Jordanian passports with the probability of course of future ethnic cleansing i.e. no deal at all. Interesting history of peace deals at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Middle_East_peace_proposals and http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-11103745 Edited November 7, 2014 by dexterm 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Your links do not support any of the made up nonsense in your post. You have been caught over and over again posting lies. Why do you keep posting links that have nothing to do with your posts or directly refute them? Edited November 7, 2014 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japsportscarmad Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Your links do not support any of the made up nonsense in your post. You have been caught over and over again posting lies. Why do you keep posting links that have nothing to do with your posts or directly refute them? Like you don't, you are always posting rubbish to links written by people who suport your case, although it must be hard as there can't be many of them you can find. Edited November 7, 2014 by japsportscarmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Providing links that support your posts is the whole point. Only an idiot would provide a link that directly contradicts his post as someone has done repeatedly. I guess he is hoping that no one will check them for accuracy. Edited November 7, 2014 by Ulysses G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japsportscarmad Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Yes I liked that well done for confirming the limited view taken in you choosing reading material. I try to read about both sides, hence my posts are always fair and balanced. Significantly they are always accurate and backed up by real evidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japsportscarmad Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Israel has been making "positive moves" for 66 years. They have offered numerous peace deals. It is time for the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and agree to peace. Or get world opinion against Israel to get a just settlement. Exactly what's happening!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I try to read about both sides, hence my posts are always fair and balanced. Significantly they are always accurate and backed up by real evidence. You have a good sense of humor or is it opposite day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japsportscarmad Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 That's what Herzl wrote in 1885. You claim he was exclusively thinking about a Zion in Argentina. I don't claim anything. Your link does. You got caught lying. You have been caught lying repeatedly and not just today. Face it. Herzl wanted to win over non-Jewish opinion for Zionism.[34] When he was still thinking of Argentina as a possible venue for massive Jewish immigration, he wrote in his diary: "When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us" http://en.wikipedia....i/Theodor_Herzl UG You really shouldn't call other members liars it's not nice and I am surprised the moderators have not removed this post. If you stayed to the facts that Israel gets criticised as its doing things wrong in the view of its peers as in the post topic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post up-country_sinclair Posted November 7, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Tough, iron clad trade sanctions on Israel are long overdue. The UN needs to make this a priority. Edited November 7, 2014 by up-country_sinclair 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Tough, iron clad trade sanctions on Israel are long overdue. The UN needs to make this a priority. Why not? The UN seems to make everything else about Israel demonization a priority. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Yes I liked that well done for confirming the limited view taken in you choosing reading material. I try to read about both sides, hence my posts are always fair and balanced. Significantly they are always accurate and backed up by real evidence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Off-topic, troll posts have been removed along with replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCer Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) More Illegal settlements = more rockets. Tit for tat show continues. In suppose Israel won't stop these settlement for the sake of global peace. Selfish Israel rears its ugly head once again. Back the OP, supposing the two state solution never happens and a "one state reality" is made permanent. What does that mean exactly for both Jews and Arabs? I really don't know. The region and the world will never have peace again. Dear, Dear! To answer all this in a few words: "Clutch". - Which one would be more correct: 1) more settlements = more rockets; or 2) more rockets => more settlements; or 3) more settlements => more rockets; or 4) more rockets no matter what; or 5) no rockets if the bigger rockets come back? I think TAT for tit is the answer. "coma". - Did this region EVER had peace? I think the answer is YES only in the absence of one of the ingredients. And one other poster simply forgot to add "Down with the head of Israel!" - sorry for you, but... your condition is the excuse. Edited November 9, 2014 by ABCer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutch Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 My original post is the correct answer. You omitted 'Illegal' from your incorrect selection of choice. Maybe you thought you'd trick me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Inflammatory post removed. Please post in a civil manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I'm surprised anyone is actually worried about Israel at the moment, what's going on up the road is far more significant for the whole region. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ulysses G. Posted November 9, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2014 Israel is full of Jews. It always attracts more than its share of hate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) I'm surprised anyone is actually worried about Israel at the moment, what's going on up the road is far more significant for the whole region. For the first time in several years the US Embassy in Riyadh is issuing warnings with specific details of attacks and places to avoid. Generally the Warden's notices are generic in nature but I have received two of them in the recent past with specific warnings. Edited November 9, 2014 by chuckd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 An off-topic post has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCer Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 IMHO the once Great Idea of UN has petered out into an Organisation of inept, indecisive, inadequate, corrupt Representatives of equally inadequate 'states'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexterm Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Your links do not support any of the made up nonsense in your post. You have been caught over and over again posting lies. Why do you keep posting links that have nothing to do with your posts or directly refute them? I wear your criticisms and ad hominem attacks like a badge of honor, UG....it means I must be hitting a raw nerve with the truth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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