Sweden recognises Palestinian state

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts and replies have been removed.

[mania]

I have a question for all you that seem to hate Israel and everything it stands for.

Why are all of you so afraid of Israel?

What is it about them that strikes such fear in your hearts?

Have the Israeli's invaded your homelands and you fear a repeat?

Help me understand where all this angst is coming from.

Thank you.

I like your posts chuck & this one did make me think a bit...

Not so much about my own views but others too.

I think in some ways the question might be reversed...

Why are some so afraid to give Palestine a voice?

A means of asking for true outside opinion....intervention...refereeing <sp?>

For myself your 2nd question

"What is it about them that strikes such fear in your hearts?"

I would say being an American with no racial/religious bias that I am of course not afraid of Israel

but I am curious & at times worried about my countries ties to them

I am worried about why we as a country offer as much support financially when we are in dire straights ourselves.

Some will say because they are our friends in the ME.....Yet if we buy a friend is that a friend?

Obviously things like our own government condemning housing expansions etc. then having "Our Friend" basically

thumb their nose & tell us get lost is not comforting.

Then there is the unchecked nuclear capabilities there & why we who normally push so hard against anyone else

who would do the same turn a blind eye here? Because they are our friend again? Note I am not saying deny them

anything but why unchecked nuclear capabilities?

Your 3rd question

"Have the Israeli's invaded your homelands and you fear a repeat?"

I think in some ways I would say as an American citizen they have in fact invaded my government to some degree obviously

when one see's their lobbying power

But mainly I think this question is the crux of this topic & of course why the Palestinians want an official voice in the world theater

I think we know how they the Palestinians would answer this.

All in all? I think it is a mess...I think it has always been a mess...I think my government the USA should step back...way back from this mess.

Again I know we are "friends" but friends we need to buy with $$$ we dont have? Friends who do not care

what we think regarding some of their actions?

Friends we need to veto any UN resolution against even when it is obviously deserved at times & we are the only ones doing so? Doing so time & again is taking

its toll on our already fragile credibility in the world.

So for me no angst per se', no hatred of Israel nor Palestine but at times concern for my own country & how it all affects us the citizens of the USA

Financially & morally as well as how we are perceived on the world stage compared to what we once stood for, founded upon & proud of.

Edited November 7, 2014 by mania

[Ulysses G.]

"Friend we need to veto any UN resolution against even when it is obviously deserved"

You must not know much about the corrupt UN or their vendetta against Israel. The resolutions are anything but fair, which is why America vetoes them so many of them. .

[mania]

You must not know much about the corrupt UN or their vendetta against Israel. The resolutions are anything but fair, which is why America vetoes them so many of them. .

It is true I do not watch closely but have to admit we do stand out when we are doing such so

often even when so many other countries agree with the proposed sanctions.

But like they say if you like sausage or politics don't watch either being made

I try not to watch but at times do wonder about things I catch on the news etc. over the years.

Also it does not address the other concerns...But I know those would lead off topic.

[Ulysses G.]

More on UN corruption. These are the countries that want to recognize Palestine:

The U.N. General Assembly adopted a total of 21 resolutions singling out Israel for criticism in 2013 and 4 resolutions for the rest of the world combined.

The four that do not concern Israel are: one on Syria, a regime that has murdered 120,000 of its own people, and one each on Iran, North Korea and Myanmar.

There were zero UNGA resolutions on gross and systematic abuses committed by China, Cuba, Egypt, Pakistan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Zimbabwe, nor on many other major perpetrators of grave violations of human rights.

http://blog.unwatch....-rest-of-world/

Edited November 7, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Credo]

Is there some reason why the UN hasn't stepped in a set up a country? I mean there's Israel and then there is nothing, so when Israel claims land it becomes Israel, otherwise it really doesn't exist as a political entity.

[Ulysses G.]

The UN did set up a country. The Palestinians refused it. They declared war on the other country that they set up and LOST.

[Jingthing]

The UN did set up a country. The Palestinians refused it. They declared war on the other country that they set up and LOST.

You can be sure Palestinian students are not taught about that.

[ggold]

When will the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

Not sure how many people know this, but anti-semitic incidents are way up all over Scandinavia.

I guess there is no political price for the leaders there to pay to diss Israel in this way.

Why would Palestinians recognise Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State? ?.

At no point has Israel acknowledged or been asked to acknowledge by the U.S., a Palestinian state’s right to exist. In fact, the U.S. and Israel have thrown international hissy fits at any prospect of Palestinian statehood that does not materialize with their direct blessing.

In 2011 the U.S. withdrew funding from UNESCO because the organization overwhelmingly voted to grant membership to Palestine. The vote was 107 to 14 in favor, with 52 abstentions.

Seemingly not without a sense of humor, the U.S. criticized the vote as a “unilateral” Palestinian attempt to achieve statehood.So not only have the U.S. and Israel not recognized the right of Palestine to exist, but both refuse to acknowledge that Palestine even exists as a state currently, even though by and large it already possesses the characteristics of what could be called a state, including clearly defined territory and control of the principle means of force within it.

Therefore, even if we grant the existence of a “right to exist” in IR, the U.S. and Israel appear staggeringly unconcerned about reciprocating the very act they’re demanding from yhe Palestinians.

Palestine does not exist as a state, it does not have defined boarders, neither does it have the infrastructure associated with state hood. It most certainly doesn't control the principal means of force with in it, what ever that is supposed to mean! It is also for that Arabs to make the first move of recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. Something they have refused to do since 194 8 after their failed attempt in three wars to push the Jews into the sea. They, the Arabs need to prove they want peace.

[ggold]

Thats the fantastic job that western media has done to people like yourselves. They have demonised the muslims so that everyone believes they are all terrorists, and shallow minded masses are gullible enough to believe such propaganda.

There are organisations such as Hasbara who are responsible for this, it is a fact look them up if you dont believe me.

Maybe the demonisation of muslims has more to do with the fact that by and large the law abiding muslims are silent about the jihadists! Even now with isis the arab countries taking part in the supposed coalition fighting isis are only paying lip service to the destruction of isis they are not as far as can be seen actually dropping bombs on isis.

Where as in Israel a democratic state, there are mixed views about the arabs some want peace others don't, most wonder if the arabs really want peace. Israelis aren't killing each other because some want peace and others don't. Hamas have killed those who show opposition to their use of Gaza as a base to attack Israel.

[ggold]

Really you do not see zionists holding violent demonstrations????

You are joking, look a little harder and you will see

we have seen how peaceful the arabs demonstrate not just in Israel but in Europe too http://www.vox.com/2014/7/21/5923145/gaza-anti-semitism-europe

[Jingthing]

Great points. Again the blame is still shared on both sides and both sides have credible narratives. Great leadership is needed from both sides for any hope of long term peace and right now neither side has great leadership so optimism now is foolish.

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Edited November 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[ggold]

Next they will be recognizing Santa Claus as a real person.

Like some believing God gave the 'land' of israel to the Jews. It's fantasy stuff.

Truth is that is the only claim they have to the land and they admit it!

There is archaeological proof of Jewish presence in Israel long before anyone even came up with a word to describe the palestinians. It seems you are very weak with factual matters just spouting your propaganda. You are not worthy to be called an anti-simite. you are an anti humanist.

[ggold]

Like some believing God gave the 'land' of israel to the Jews. It's fantasy stuff.

Truth is that is the only claim they have to the land and they admit it!

Especially for the bigots the only land Jews believe to be given to them is Israel , just as it says in Torah.

On the other hand, using facts, jews have lived in Israel for over 5000 years, always preyed towards Israel and Israel and Jerusalem always mentioned in every prayer.

Other point of view is to claim a land which never belonged to a non existing nation, just as insane as to claim to be a nation which not only never existed but can not even be pronounced in their own language.

But , please do not let me stop you with more anti semitic nonsense.

Wrong again!!

The Torah says that the jews must remain in exile until and only until the messiah comes and brings them forth to there homeland.

Again how can I be anti semitic if I am pro Palestine? They are true Semites, unike the zionist kazars.

This is totaly false. there never was a jewish Kazaria,

“The silence of so many sources about the Khazars’ Judaism is very suspicious,” Stampfer said. “The Byzantines, the geonim [Jewish religious leaders of the sixth to eleventh centuries], the sages of Egypt – none of them have a word about the Jewish Khazars.”

The research ended up taking him four years. “I thought I’d finish in two months, but I discovered that there was a huge amount of work. I had to check sources that aren’t in my field, and I consulted and got help from many people.”

Stampfer said his research had no political motives, though he recognizes that the topic is politically fraught.

“It’s a really interesting historical question, but it has political implications,”

he said. “As a historian, I’m naturally worried by the misuse of history. I think history should be removed from political discussions, but anyone who nevertheless wants to use history must at least present the correct facts. In this case, the facts are that the Khazars didn’t convert, the Jews aren’t descendants of the Khazars and the contemporary political problems between Israelis and Palestinians must be dealt with on the basis of current reality, not on the basis of a fictitious past.”

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/200825/why-ashkenazi-jews-are-not-descended-from-khazars/#ixzz3IMVocFhC

[ggold]

Back on topic:)

concidering you have consistantly taken this off topic, why would you deny someone the right of reply if indeed you were being factual. YOU are not factual, you spout what is in esence racist views while claiming not be be racist.

Back on topic indeed!

[simple1]

the arab countries taking part in the supposed coalition fighting isis are only paying lip service to the destruction of isis they are not as far as can be seen actually dropping bombs on isis.

Arab coalition member countries have been carrying our air strikes against IS in Syria since 23/09/2014; countries are Bahrain, Jordan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. They have not been requested to contribute ground forces in Syria/Iraq and highly unlikely they ever will be for obvious regional balance of power politics.

[Seastallion]

Is there some reason why the UN hasn't stepped in a set up a country? I mean there's Israel and then there is nothing, so when Israel claims land it becomes Israel, otherwise it really doesn't exist as a political entity.

Some reason? USA.

Israel is very frightened of Palestinian statehood.

Palestinian statehood means Palestine can become a member of the UN, a constituent of the ICC, and a signatory to the Geneva Convention, and generally become a good global citizen.

As a global citizen, we would expect Palestine to be afforded all the protections of law and of force that the global community can muster....Israel would no longer be able to commit her crimes.

[Jingthing]

More like Israel is afraid a Palestinian state would do what Hamas says it wants to do ... get stronger and put an end to Israel. Jews have learned the hard lesson from history that when people say they want to wipe you out better believe them.

A change of heart ... a real show of acceptance of Israel as a Jewish state is needed. Proclaiming terrorists as heroes is the wrong direction.

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Edited November 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

More like Israel is afraid a Palestinian state would do what Hamas says it wants to do ... get stronger and put an end to Israel. Jews have learned the hard lesson from history that when people say they want to wipe you out better believe them.

A change of heart ... a real show of acceptance of Israel as a Jewish state is needed. Proclaiming terrorists as heroes is the wrong direction.

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I don't take your dramatic fears seriously, but lets for a moment entertain them along with the idea of Palestinian statehood.

Think about it JT. Palestine becomes a state and attempts to do what you fear. As a state, there is now an entity for the global community to act against. And they would.

Or do you think that the state of Palestine would cherry pick which Geneva conventions to sign up to, like Israel, and thus not be committing crimes?

[up-country_sinclair]

The people and nations of the world know that Palestine should have been recognized long ago. Sweden is just another domino that has fallen. We can expect many more to follow suit.

Edited November 7, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[Jingthing]

More like Israel is afraid a Palestinian state would do what Hamas says it wants to do ... get stronger and put an end to Israel. Jews have learned the hard lesson from history that when people say they want to wipe you out better believe them.

A change of heart ... a real show of acceptance of Israel as a Jewish state is needed. Proclaiming terrorists as heroes is the wrong direction.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I don't take your dramatic fears seriously, but lets for a moment entertain them along with the idea of Palestinian statehood.

Think about it JT. Palestine becomes a state and attempts to do what you fear. As a state, there is now an entity for the global community to act against. And they would.

Or do you think that the state of Palestine would cherry pick which Geneva conventions to sign up to, like Israel, and thus not be committing crimes?

You are very naive. after all what's it to you if millions of Jews are at risk from Jew hating Jihadists. Try to sell that crapola to the euro progressives and obsessive Israel demonizers. Israel ain't buying.

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[Jingthing]

The people and nations of the world know that Palestine should have been recognized long ago. Sweden is the first domino to fall. We can expect many more to follow suit.

Means little without Israel.

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[up-country_sinclair]

Now that the Swedish domino has fallen, it's only a matter of time until the EU officially recognizes Palestine (and this may come quicker than some here fear). That's when we will begin to see some real progress for the oppressed people of Palestine, Insha'Allah.

[japsportscarmad]

The people and nations of the world know that Palestine should have been recognized long ago. Sweden is the first domino to fall. We can expect many more to follow suit.

Means little without Israel.

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Your right and that's the issue as Israel does not want a fair deal or they would stop settlement building.

That's why sanctions are required in addition to the successful demonising of goods made in the occupied areas, or in Israel in general. Until they have to they will continue to do what they want.

[Seastallion]

The people and nations of the world know that Palestine should have been recognized long ago. Sweden is the first domino to fall. We can expect many more to follow suit.

Means little without Israel.

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Well, thankfully, Israel's opinion may not matter a jot. They will eventually be forced to accept whatever is put on the table.

[japsportscarmad]

More like Israel is afraid a Palestinian state would do what Hamas says it wants to do ... get stronger and put an end to Israel. Jews have learned the hard lesson from history that when people say they want to wipe you out better believe them.

A change of heart ... a real show of acceptance of Israel as a Jewish state is needed. Proclaiming terrorists as heroes is the wrong direction.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Jing thing why are you so scared?

No one wants to kill Jews on here just move them back off a little bit of the land they should not be on. It's not about Anti Semitic behaviour or hating jews, although by peole not accepting that Israel has issues and can't act with impunity on the things they do, this is leading to serious rises in anti semetic behaviour and attacks. Which none of us want to see I am sure of that.

If Israel was to do the right thing, then it would need to also ensured its continued protection or that would not be fair.

Edited November 7, 2014 by japsportscarmad

[Jingthing]

Too bizarre. Nobody wants to kill Jews? What planet do you have to come from to believe that lie? To add insult to injury Jews defending themselves gets the Jews blamed for antisemitism. Disgusting. Israel is correct that the world is ganging up on the Jews ... again. Good thing that Israel is a nuclear power.

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Edited November 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

More like Israel is afraid a Palestinian state would do what Hamas says it wants to do ... get stronger and put an end to Israel. Jews have learned the hard lesson from history that when people say they want to wipe you out better believe them.

A change of heart ... a real show of acceptance of Israel as a Jewish state is needed. Proclaiming terrorists as heroes is the wrong direction.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If Israel was to do the right thing, then it would need to also ensured its continued protection or that would not be fair.

You mean that they should commit mass suicide and capitulate to terrorism. Sorry, it ain't going to happen

[up-country_sinclair]

Due to both its immoral actions on the ground and inaction towards a negotiated peace, the world has decided that Israel will no longer dictate how the inevitable process towards Palestinian statehood moves forward. The only question now is which European nation will be the next to recognize Palestine.

By the way, here's a photo from the signing of the document in which Sweden officially recognized the state of Palestine!

[Ulysses G.]

A document which means next to nothing and does not change the fact that there is not and never was an Arab "state" of Palestine. .

Edited November 7, 2014 by Ulysses G.