Initial DNA test clears Koh Tao village headman's son of murder

[CapFarmer]

I hope the real twist in this travesty will arrive when the British forensics ask for his sample and at the same time the Thai police have no idea that Heathers body produced another sample back in the UK after repatriation. This is the only thing that can prove this case now. If our far more advanced forensic experts have somehow managed to get a DNA sample of her murderers the

This would be a great development -

I hope the Thais haven't scrubbed the victim (female) completely clean of evidence and some micro level evidence was there- and taken.

Its very likely the Brits would have ordered a very top level forensic examination once she made UK soil.

It would really (As the Equalizer said) If the Thais Co-operate and pass on a sample , or they have one already and its a match - that would be SH*T hitting the fan-

I was coming on to post similar. The only way I'd now believe ANYTHING the Thai authorities claim on this case is if it were independently verified. It wouldn't have to be by the British authorities either, U.S., French, German or a multitude of others would satisfy me. Having witnessed this charade which the Thais claim as an investigation, the North Koreans or ISIS would probably be more convincing.

Any lab certified to conduct DNA testing would be fine. Thailand does not have any certified labs.

[Fatty123]

On the thai tv news just now they announced results showed the DNA does NOT match and the father has hired a lawyer to go after those websites that allowed postings that tarnished his family name for lawsuits.

That's fair enough. I would look at the person that started the rumours. The one that called a press conference asking people to look out for the suspect.

When a head cop calls a National press conference and does 'Thailand's Most Wanted' for the watching world, it's not surprising people latched on to this subject (after the cops posted footage of the running man which they implied was Nomsod).

The dude/dudette from CSI LA's website is going for an interview with Thai PBS. If anyone can put subtitles on a youtube vid, that would be great.

With the Thais love of a 'show' , I fully expect either Nomsod's dad to hand him a letter from his lawyer or the cops to just come in and arrest him. I wonder if this interview is in a secret location? If this CSI LA chap knows what's good for him, that's what he should be doing (just before catching his flight to South America).

Public Enemy once sang ''Fight the Power!''....they've obviously never been to Thailand.

the csila guy isnt in Thailand, and you are correct, the head cop, or ex head cop, is the one that should be held responsible as he was the one that started the so called rumors

Thanks, I didn't realise he was outside Thailand. I thought he was a bit brave

[JOC]

JTH and/or jdinasia.

In any police-investigation, one of the first things the cops are looking for is motive!!

What possible motive would the two Myanmar guys have to brutally murder two complete strangers?

I don't buy the part about them being sexually aroused, because they saw someone making out. They are from the sticks i Myanmar, where sex isn't a taboo, they could probably get laid in their village for 20 baht.

They are captured on CCTV buying one beer each, so lets presume they were not drunk.

The very violent way in which the victims were murdered, almost in rage, to me looks like it was something personal. Commited by someone with an inflated opinion about his/their entitlement, and when refused/insulted have to get back, all in name of the all important face. And that in my opinion points somewhere else!

So just enlighten us about, what in your opinion would be the possible motive for the two guys to violently kill the two Brits!!

[wantan]

OP says:

DNA test conducted by the Police hospital has cleared the son of the influential village headman on Koh Tao of any involvement in the murder of two British tourists on the island in mid-September.

How can a DNA test clear someone "of any involvement in a murder"? It just shows that there was no matching DNA found (assuming the test samples were "handled correctly").

[jdinasia]

now you are simply trolling. What is the source for your claims that those people did not know where he was for a week?

Hint: you won't be able to supply a source.

lets just make a note that you dont dispute that the guy went into hiding and try to move on

Hiding? That is your characterization. Was in BKK. Contacted the police on his own after obtaining a lawyer and exculpatory evidence, would be my characterization.

I did know you wouldn't give a source. It simply wasn't true.

[otocheater]

Thailand only!!!

Hope the truth reveal soon.

How many son he've got?

[jdinasia]

JTH and/or jdinasia.

In any police-investigation, one of the first things the cops are looking for is motive!!

What possible motive would the two Myanmar guys have to brutally murder two complete strangers?

I don't buy the part about them being sexually aroused, because they saw someone making out. They are from the sticks i Myanmar, where sex isn't a taboo, they could probably get laid in their village for 20 baht.

They are captured on CCTV buying one beer each, so lets presume they were not drunk.

The very violent way in which the victims were murdered, almost in rage, to me looks like it was something personal. Commited by someone with an inflated opinion about his/their entitlement, and when refused/insulted have to get back, all in name of the all important face. And that in my opinion points somewhere else!

So just enlighten us about, what in your opinion would be the possible motive for the two guys to violently kill the two Brits!!

Theft and rape.

[balo]

As I've said earlier, even with the Brits present during the DNA test , conspiracy theorists in here will not believe anything that Thai police, or dna labs , or even Scotland Yard will share of information. The boy is probably innocent and we do have a DNA test to prove it.

[JLCrab]

JTH and/or jdinasia.

In any police-investigation, one of the first things the cops are looking for is motive!!

What possible motive would the two Myanmar guys have to brutally murder two complete strangers?

I don't buy the part about them being sexually aroused, because they saw someone making out. They are from the sticks i Myanmar, where sex isn't a taboo, they could probably get laid in their village for 20 baht.

They are captured on CCTV buying one beer each, so lets presume they were not drunk.

The very violent way in which the victims were murdered, almost in rage, to me looks like it was something personal. Commited by someone with an inflated opinion about his/their entitlement, and when refused/insulted have to get back, all in name of the all important face. And that in my opinion points somewhere else!

So just enlighten us about, what in your opinion would be the possible motive for the two guys to violently kill the two Brits!!

. they could probably get laid in their village for 20 baht. Maybe -- but apparently it has been a long time since they've been in their village.

What I have a hard time buying face lost or not is that someone would rape and murder a girl just for turning him down and then leave her body and that of another on the family doorstep and just say " No big deal -- my Dad will take care of it."

[Soutpeel]

As I've said earlier, even with the Brits present during the DNA test , conspiracy theorists in here will not believe anything that Thai police, or dna labs , or even Scotland Yard will share of information. The boy is probably innocent and we do have a DNA test to prove it.

where they actually present ?.....usually with token farangs involved the media uses the photo op, I stand to be corrected but in the footage and film I have seen of the DNA sampling never seen a farang copper anywhere ?

[DarloKnight]

On the thai tv news just now they announced results showed the DNA does NOT match and the father has hired a lawyer to go after those websites that allowed postings that tarnished his family name for lawsuits.

That's fair enough. I would look at the person that started the rumours. The one that called a press conference asking people to look out for the suspect.

When a head cop calls a National press conference and does 'Thailand's Most Wanted' for the watching world, it's not surprising people latched on to this subject (after the cops posted footage of the running man which they implied was Nomsod).

The dude/dudette from CSI LA's website is going for an interview with Thai PBS. If anyone can put subtitles on a youtube vid, that would be great.

With the Thais love of a 'show' , I fully expect either Nomsod's dad to hand him a letter from his lawyer or the cops to just come in and arrest him. I wonder if this interview is in a secret location? If this CSI LA chap knows what's good for him, that's what he should be doing (just before catching his flight to South America).

Public Enemy once sang ''Fight the Power!''....they've obviously never been to Thailand.

the csila guy isnt in Thailand, and you are correct, the head cop, or ex head cop, is the one that should be held responsible as he was the one that started the so called rumors

Thanks, I didn't realise he was outside Thailand. I thought he was a bit brave

He is now saying he will be on a Thai program tonight? Unless via video link?

[partington]

After some research on the web: The fastest time for an accurate DNA-Analysis takes 72 hours! 3 days! Does anybody else know? Until now I always see 72 h.

I am curious what our resident expert RTP apologists, JohnJohn & jdinasia have to say about that, as it does seem Thailand has set a world record to locally turn around an accurate analysis in such a quick period of time and it just happens to be the BiB hospital which on would assume would not be the best equipped anyway

so come on Johnjohn and jd give us some words of wisdom on this question ?

it seems to me, if I have the timings right, they have turned this DNA test around in 19 odd hours..so someone must have been work OT and night shift

I'm not claiming to know what happened. In fact, my suspicions run the other direction from the official reports.

But keep in mind if the blood type was wrong, the DNA results could have definitively ruled someone out in minutes, perhaps hours.

There is nothing to be gained by suggesting the DNA test didn't take place, because clearly that can be disproved, and because three other centres are also doing the tests, with results that will come out shortly.

It is perfectly possible to do a DNA profiling from a cell sample (blood or cheek cells) in slightly under 24 hours (see the timeline given at the end of this post). Given the adverse publicity for the Thai Police generated by this case it would not be surprising that the Police General Hospital Forensic lab would prioritise it, to be able to announce the results first.

There is also little to be gained by suggesting that Thai forensic laboratories cannot do DNA profiling, because there are publications and websites that show that they can. There are 7 laboratories with DNA profiling capability in Thailand, and at least in one case, Mahidol University, they also teach courses in DNA forensics using current techniques.

The question is: Is the crime scene DNA sample from the victim that these tests are being compared to, intact, verifiable, and genuine? The repeated returns of the prosecution files for further evidence collection suggests there is something wrong wth this initial evidence, and unless this evidence is shown to be genuine, undegraded and not the result of deliberate tampering, repeated tests on other people are meaningless.

Taken from the text book: Introduction to Forensic DNA Evidence for Criminal Justice Professionals, J.M. Taupin, (2013) CRC Press. Chapter 3, p 59.

"Table 3.2 estimates the time required for each step of a DNA analysis. These times are based on samples designated urgent. [...]Urgent cases, however, can be processed relatively quickly if an impact-based priority system is followed.

Table 3.2 Analytical Times for DNA Steps^a

Step Time

Extraction 90 minutes for blood; overnight for semen and hairs

Quantification 3 hours

Amplification 3 hours

Separation and detection 2 hours

Analysis of fragments 2 hours for 2 scientists

Interpretation Variable, minimum of 1 hour

Approximate as of 2012"

[Luang]

As I've said earlier, even with the Brits present during the DNA test , conspiracy theorists in here will not believe anything that Thai police, or dna labs , or even Scotland Yard will share of information. The boy is probably innocent and we do have a DNA test to prove it.

where they actually present ?.....usually with token farangs involved the media uses the photo op, I stand to be corrected but in the footage and film I have seen of the DNA sampling never seen a farang copper anywhere ?

They'll have wanted absolutely nothing to do with it!

[lor]

Have I missed something?

I seem to remember at the start of this case the DNA samples had to be sent to Singapore because Thailand did not have the expertise to test them. But now the police can do it in 24 hours and also there are another 3 places that are also testing.

I hope that the comparison is not done only against the DNA found in the victim but also against the DNA from the found condom and from around her nipples.. Or is that too much to expect?

Chris

[thailandchilli]

JTH and/or jdinasia.

In any police-investigation, one of the first things the cops are looking for is motive!!

What possible motive would the two Myanmar guys have to brutally murder two complete strangers?

I don't buy the part about them being sexually aroused, because they saw someone making out. They are from the sticks i Myanmar, where sex isn't a taboo, they could probably get laid in their village for 20 baht.

They are captured on CCTV buying one beer each, so lets presume they were not drunk.

The very violent way in which the victims were murdered, almost in rage, to me looks like it was something personal. Commited by someone with an inflated opinion about his/their entitlement, and when refused/insulted have to get back, all in name of the all important face. And that in my opinion points somewhere else!

So just enlighten us about, what in your opinion would be the possible motive for the two guys to violently kill the two Brits!!

. they could probably get laid in their village for 20 baht. Maybe -- but apparently it has been a long time since they've been in their village.

What I have a hard time buying face lost or not is that someone would rape and murder a girl just for turning him down and then leave her body and that of another on the family doorstep and just say " No big deal -- my Dad will take care of it."

Thats a fair point but there are also allegations that this is not the first time he's been in serious problems, there was one time he allegedly raped a girl and on his exist through the bedroom window cut his foot. There are also allegations by previous Thai girls of being raped, not by him but by the same group who is believed to be involved. There is of course another unsolved murder of a UK national in Koh Tao that happened only a few months ago. The parents are currently seeking the truth as they do not believe the RTP version of events that he drowned.

[thailandchilli]

As I've said earlier, even with the Brits present during the DNA test , conspiracy theorists in here will not believe anything that Thai police, or dna labs , or even Scotland Yard will share of information. The boy is probably innocent and we do have a DNA test to prove it.

And as I said earlier, the Brits would never attend such a circus and fiasco despite being invited to do so by the RTP. They have already made their position clear and its not the version given out by the RTP speaking on their behalf.

[bruceybonus]

JTH and/or jdinasia.

In any police-investigation, one of the first things the cops are looking for is motive!!

What possible motive would the two Myanmar guys have to brutally murder two complete strangers?

I don't buy the part about them being sexually aroused, because they saw someone making out. They are from the sticks i Myanmar, where sex isn't a taboo, they could probably get laid in their village for 20 baht.

They are captured on CCTV buying one beer each, so lets presume they were not drunk.

The very violent way in which the victims were murdered, almost in rage, to me looks like it was something personal. Commited by someone with an inflated opinion about his/their entitlement, and when refused/insulted have to get back, all in name of the all important face. And that in my opinion points somewhere else!

So just enlighten us about, what in your opinion would be the possible motive for the two guys to violently kill the two Brits!!

Theft and rape.

Yeh??? Theft at 2am when all tourists have their pockets stuffed with cash. Rape??? yeh when she is with a guy twice the size of the two Burmese guys

Not exactly the sort of scenario a rational person could envisage!

[Luang]

Have I missed something?

I seem to remember at the start of this case the DNA samples had to be sent to Singapore because Thailand did not have the expertise to test them. But now the police can do it in 24 hours and also there are another 3 places that are also testing.

I hope that the comparison is not done only against the DNA found in the victim but also against the DNA from the found condom and from around her nipples.. Or is that too much to expect?

Chris

You already know the answer to that.

Re. the condom, mysteriously there was no attackers DNA found, only Hannah's! Re. the other you mention, the police have never mentioned it. Probably another figment of everybody's imagination.

I'm sure the Jay Twins will be on soon to clear our ignorant misunderstandings up.

[Fatty123]

Some are saying that the UK cops need to get involved or that they should've been at the DNA test yesterday and observed and followed the sample etc. This is my two cents.

The bodies were returned to the UK. If DNA was still present in or on the bodies, do you think Scotland Yard will have a copy?

Do you think Scotland Yard have requested DNA samples from the two Burmese suspects?

If you can aswer yes to the above, you have the reasons why they are saying nothing.Yet. They may be waiting to see if their results (if any) match those of the RTP. It may be fan, hit and sh..t if they don't match.

I've always maintained that although the case looks a biy iffy, that I'm not sure that the Burmese guys are innocent. I still think any statements by Scotland Yard will be what may are waiting for. But you'll have to wait...they don't go mouthing off until they're pretty certain.

[lausie]

now you are simply trolling. What is the source for your claims that those people did not know where he was for a week?

Hint: you won't be able to supply a source.

lets just make a note that you dont dispute that the guy went into hiding and try to move on

Hiding? That is your characterization. Was in BKK. Contacted the police on his own after obtaining a lawyer and exculpatory evidence, would be my characterization.

I did know you wouldn't give a source. It simply wasn't true.

I'm not entirely sure images from CCTV at his condo timestamped anywhere between 4-7 hours after the incident is exculpatory evidence, given you could travel from KT to BKK in that time period.

[culicine]

JTH and/or jdinasia.

In any police-investigation, one of the first things the cops are looking for is motive!!

What possible motive would the two Myanmar guys have to brutally murder two complete strangers?

I don't buy the part about them being sexually aroused, because they saw someone making out. They are from the sticks i Myanmar, where sex isn't a taboo, they could probably get laid in their village for 20 baht.

They are captured on CCTV buying one beer each, so lets presume they were not drunk.

The very violent way in which the victims were murdered, almost in rage, to me looks like it was something personal. Commited by someone with an inflated opinion about his/their entitlement, and when refused/insulted have to get back, all in name of the all important face. And that in my opinion points somewhere else!

So just enlighten us about, what in your opinion would be the possible motive for the two guys to violently kill the two Brits!!

Theft and rape.

Yeh??? Theft at 2am when all tourists have their pockets stuffed with cash. Rape??? yeh when she is with a guy twice the size of the two Burmese guys

Not exactly the sort of scenario a rational person could envisage!

I'm of the opinion that more than two were involved. One of the Burmese is muscular but both are quite small. The only what this could have happened is if there were king hit at the same time while having sex, but there is no evidence of that, as none of David's DNA was present on Hannah. There was also mention of a third set of DNA. It would have taken the two to take down David, but Hannah would have been able to escape in that scenario. At 50+ meters from the crime scene, in the dark, it would have been pretty hard for those guys to 'get aroused' . They are going to need a lot more than just DNA to get a conviction here.

[dean008]

I read that Thailand do not have the technology to do the DNA test

I read that Thailand have to send the results to Singapore

I read DNA testing takes at least a week

I know read that they can complete the test in Thailand within 24 hours

[Patje]

Why am I not surprised ???

[kcirtapyelrah]

JTH and/or jdinasia.

In any police-investigation, one of the first things the cops are looking for is motive!!

What possible motive would the two Myanmar guys have to brutally murder two complete strangers?

I don't buy the part about them being sexually aroused, because they saw someone making out. They are from the sticks i Myanmar, where sex isn't a taboo, they could probably get laid in their village for 20 baht.

They are captured on CCTV buying one beer each, so lets presume they were not drunk.

The very violent way in which the victims were murdered, almost in rage, to me looks like it was something personal. Commited by someone with an inflated opinion about his/their entitlement, and when refused/insulted have to get back, all in name of the all important face. And that in my opinion points somewhere else!

So just enlighten us about, what in your opinion would be the possible motive for the two guys to violently kill the two Brits!!

. they could probably get laid in their village for 20 baht. Maybe -- but apparently it has been a long time since they've been in their village.

What I have a hard time buying face lost or not is that someone would rape and murder a girl just for turning him down and then leave her body and that of another on the family doorstep and just say " No big deal -- my Dad will take care of it."

To think like that you would have to be rational, nobody with a rational mind would do such a terrible think.

[hoyism]

So just enlighten us about, what in your opinion would be the possible motive for the two guys to violently kill the two Brits!!

you've obviously not lived or spent any long amounts of time down on those islands

[Runamile]

BKK Brit : "And we thought we did corruption well" ........ that's if they've not fallen off the hotel room balcony.

[jdinasia]

now you are simply trolling. What is the source for your claims that those people did not know where he was for a week?

Hint: you won't be able to supply a source.

lets just make a note that you dont dispute that the guy went into hiding and try to move on

Hiding? That is your characterization. Was in BKK. Contacted the police on his own after obtaining a lawyer and exculpatory evidence, would be my characterization.

I did know you wouldn't give a source. It simply wasn't true.

I'm not entirely sure images from CCTV at his condo timestamped anywhere between 4-7 hours after the incident is exculpatory evidence, given you could travel from KT to BKK in that time period.

You don't have to be. You are assuming that is the only evidence that the police investigation in BKK revealed.

[Runamile]

BKK Brit : "And we thought we did corruption well" ........ that's if they've not fallen off the hotel room balcony.

[jdinasia]

now you are simply trolling. What is the source for your claims that those people did not know where he was for a week?

Hint: you won't be able to supply a source.

lets just make a note that you dont dispute that the guy went into hiding and try to move on

Hiding? That is your characterization. Was in BKK. Contacted the police on his own after obtaining a lawyer and exculpatory evidence, would be my characterization.

I did know you wouldn't give a source. It simply wasn't true.

I'm not entirely sure images from CCTV at his condo timestamped anywhere between 4-7 hours after the incident is exculpatory evidence, given you could travel from KT to BKK in that time period.

You don't have to be. You are assuming that is the only evidence that the police investigation in BKK revealed.

BTW from KT to BKK takes more than 4 hours. First off you must get to Samui or Chumpon then wait for a plane then get from the airport to the university.

[Patje]

Why am I not surprised ???