DNA results from Ko Tao village head’s son don't match traces on slain British tourists

[thailandchilli]

Anthony 5, English is my first language, thailandchilli said "I'd be happy to bring with me any messages for them from anyone on here". He didn't say "everyone" so hasn't presumed any authority. The phrase "99%" is commonly used in the UK and other english speaking countries, when, in the absence any real data, it signifies the writers impression of a large majority. Your quote about engaging a psychiatrist because somebody has stated their intentions makes no sense in the context you are using it. A psychiatrist primarily deals with mental health issues, there is nothing in your requote that suggests the poster has mental health issues.

If English is indeed your first language, then I suggest you learn to read since I replied to uty6543 instead of Thailandchili in regards to the 99% of the farang community.

My comment regarding the mental health issues of some members came because it is quite obvious that some are dreaming away if they think that the two accused are waiting for them and that the Samui times gonna jump in the fire for them.

So if that's the context in which you said it. Then making such a flippant remark deserves the same in return.

Delivering messages and flowers along with my daughter and wife is the least I can do. I along with many posters have these 2 guys in our minds daily and feel for the injustice they are suffering. It sends them a message that they are not forgotten completely, they already get plenty of the same through other channels however I am in a position where its not too difficult for me to do this.

The mention of Samui times, note the 'I may', was me thinking out loud however it would not be beyond the realms of possibility for them to take a shot of my daughter handing over flowers to the lawyer or representative. Why would you think they would be jumping into the fire? But regardless this is going to happen, without the consultation of a psychiatrist. Do they have good ones in Thailand? Guess you must know eh

[Anthony5]

Anthony 5, English is my first language, thailandchilli said "I'd be happy to bring with me any messages for them from anyone on here". He didn't say "everyone" so hasn't presumed any authority. The phrase "99%" is commonly used in the UK and other english speaking countries, when, in the absence any real data, it signifies the writers impression of a large majority. Your quote about engaging a psychiatrist because somebody has stated their intentions makes no sense in the context you are using it. A psychiatrist primarily deals with mental health issues, there is nothing in your requote that suggests the poster has mental health issues.

If English is indeed your first language, then I suggest you learn to read since I replied to uty6543 instead of Thailandchili in regards to the 99% of the farang community.

My comment regarding the mental health issues of some members came because it is quite obvious that some are dreaming away if they think that the two accused are waiting for them and that the Samui times gonna jump in the fire for them.

So if that's the context in which you said it. Then making such a flippant remark deserves the same in return.

Delivering messages and flowers along with my daughter and wife is the least I can do. I along with many posters have these 2 guys in our minds daily and feel for the injustice they are suffering. It sends them a message that they are not forgotten completely, they already get plenty of the same through other channels however I am in a position where its not too difficult for me to do this.

The mention of Samui times, note the 'I may', was me thinking out loud however it would not be beyond the realms of possibility for them to take a shot of my daughter handing over flowers to the lawyer or representative. Why would you think they would be jumping into the fire? But regardless this is going to happen, without the consultation of a psychiatrist. Do they have good ones in Thailand? Guess you must know eh

People who think they can solve a crime investigation from behind their keyboard definitely need to see a psych.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Anthony5

[boomerangutang]

Without doing another nested quote, I would like to think that the reason that the District prosecution team has been unwilling to-date to move forward with this case is that they are honest people and good lawyers and do not wish to proceed with a case that they believe will lack sufficient credibility and that such decision has been made on the merits of the case and not because of pressure or publicity from any source. Call me naive on that one if you like.

I won't call you naive, but easily duped. The prosecution is working hand-in-glove with police (who have little or no forensic training) to try and frame the B2. What they should do is admit there's no viable case against the B2 and simply acquit them. They're under orders from police top brass (possibly going all the way up to the PM) to get resolution of this, in order to try and stop tourist #'s from dropping. They've all been broadsided from the incredible public outrage from hundreds of thousands of Thais and farang.

Things used to be so much easier and simpler for Thai investigators. They'd frame a scapegoat or (more often) give up on a case (usually due to incompetence) and know that the public would forget about it - and there's always some other news hitting the fan. This time they're between a rock and a hard place. Hopefully, some good things will come out of this, regardless of whether the scapegoats are found guilty or whether cops have the decency and professionalism to look at those who should be suspects. Hopefully, future crime cases in Thailand:

>>> will be professionally dealt with

>>> will call in expert investigators, instead of cops and top brass. Cops are poorly trained and beholden to top brass, and top brass have an agenda ....and it ain't justice.

>>> Not assume that the public are a bunch of dummies who will believe all the horseshit they're fed.

>>> Not allow rich and powerful people to control the direction of the investigation. In other words; follow leads to wherever they lead, instead of shielding/excusing certain well-connected groups of people as untouchable.

[thailandchilli]

Anthony 5, English is my first language, thailandchilli said "I'd be happy to bring with me any messages for them from anyone on here". He didn't say "everyone" so hasn't presumed any authority. The phrase "99%" is commonly used in the UK and other english speaking countries, when, in the absence any real data, it signifies the writers impression of a large majority. Your quote about engaging a psychiatrist because somebody has stated their intentions makes no sense in the context you are using it. A psychiatrist primarily deals with mental health issues, there is nothing in your requote that suggests the poster has mental health issues.

If English is indeed your first language, then I suggest you learn to read since I replied to uty6543 instead of Thailandchili in regards to the 99% of the farang community.

My comment regarding the mental health issues of some members came because it is quite obvious that some are dreaming away if they think that the two accused are waiting for them and that the Samui times gonna jump in the fire for them.

So if that's the context in which you said it. Then making such a flippant remark deserves the same in return.

Delivering messages and flowers along with my daughter and wife is the least I can do. I along with many posters have these 2 guys in our minds daily and feel for the injustice they are suffering. It sends them a message that they are not forgotten completely, they already get plenty of the same through other channels however I am in a position where its not too difficult for me to do this.

The mention of Samui times, note the 'I may', was me thinking out loud however it would not be beyond the realms of possibility for them to take a shot of my daughter handing over flowers to the lawyer or representative. Why would you think they would be jumping into the fire? But regardless this is going to happen, without the consultation of a psychiatrist. Do they have good ones in Thailand? Guess you must know eh

People who think they can solve a crime investigation from behind their keyboard definitely need to see a psych.

Poor attempt at deflection, whats that got to do with my post, goodnight

[Vejo]

I have no reason to mislead you, English is my first language and I'm comfortable enough with my reading and writing ability to point out that my statement around the phrase "99%" was made with no reference to who initially posted it. If I was dirt poor and incarcerated in a foreign country I would openly welcome a friendly stranger bearing gifts and emotional support in the way thailandchilli has offered. I also took his mention of the Samui Times as giving them a choice of whether they think it is newsworthy therefore keeping the trial in people's thoughts. I was giving you the benefit of my doubt that you perhaps missed the nuance of what was being said but it appears you didn't.

My original reason for breaking my "lurking" silence was going to ask posters about the RTP reported DNA match made from samples recovered from the crime scene. I've followed the story extensively but don't recall whether the reported match came from the cigarette or other samples gathered. Can anybody clarify please?

[simonuk]

Sometimes the bickering seems like a deliberate attempt to water down the overwhelming evidence that is present on this thread.

Purposeful deviation from the point-

Gross corruption and manipulation of a paper thin justice system.

[JLCrab]

Without doing another nested quote, I would like to think that the reason that the District prosecution team has been unwilling to-date to move forward with this case is that they are honest people and good lawyers and do not wish to proceed with a case that they believe will lack sufficient credibility and that such decision has been made on the merits of the case and not because of pressure or publicity from any source. Call me naive on that one if you like.

I won't call you naive, but easily duped. The prosecution is working hand-in-glove with police (who have little or no forensic training) to try and frame the B2. What they should do is admit there's no viable case against the B2 and simply acquit them. They're under orders from police top brass (possibly going all the way up to the PM) to get resolution of this, in order to try and stop tourist #'s from dropping. They've all been broadsided from the incredible public outrage from hundreds of thousands of Thais and farang.

Things used to be so much easier and simpler for Thai investigators. They'd frame a scapegoat or (more often) give up on a case (usually due to incompetence) and know that the public would forget about it - and there's always some other news hitting the fan. This time they're between a rock and a hard place. Hopefully, some good things will come out of this, regardless of whether the scapegoats are found guilty or whether cops have the decency and professionalism to look at those who should be suspects. Hopefully, future crime cases in Thailand:

>>> will be professionally dealt with

>>> will call in expert investigators, instead of cops and top brass. Cops are poorly trained and beholden to top brass, and top brass have an agenda ....and it ain't justice.

>>> Not assume that the public are a bunch of dummies who will believe all the horseshit they're fed.

>>> Not allow rich and powerful people to control the direction of the investigation. In other words; follow leads to wherever they lead, instead of shielding/excusing certain well-connected groups of people as untouchable.

There definitely will be tough times for those in power trying to stick a crime on a couple of scapegoats now or in the future when there are guys like yourself on the scene with a higher code of moral values than those in Thailand with the responsibility of enforcing the law or the law itself. When everyone on the blogosphere knows who really did it and who is being conveniently falsely charged that should be good enough for Thai officialdom as well.

Edited December 1, 2014 by JLCrab

[DennisF]

Without doing another nested quote, I would like to think that the reason that the District prosecution team has been unwilling to-date to move forward with this case is that they are honest people and good lawyers and do not wish to proceed with a case that they believe will lack sufficient credibility and that such decision has been made on the merits of the case and not because of pressure or publicity from any source. Call me naive on that one if you like.

I won't call you naive, but easily duped. The prosecution is working hand-in-glove with police (who have little or no forensic training) to try and frame the B2. What they should do is admit there's no viable case against the B2 and simply acquit them. They're under orders from police top brass (possibly going all the way up to the PM) to get resolution of this, in order to try and stop tourist #'s from dropping. They've all been broadsided from the incredible public outrage from hundreds of thousands of Thais and farang.

Things used to be so much easier and simpler for Thai investigators. They'd frame a scapegoat or (more often) give up on a case (usually due to incompetence) and know that the public would forget about it - and there's always some other news hitting the fan. This time they're between a rock and a hard place. Hopefully, some good things will come out of this, regardless of whether the scapegoats are found guilty or whether cops have the decency and professionalism to look at those who should be suspects. Hopefully, future crime cases in Thailand:

>>> will be professionally dealt with

>>> will call in expert investigators, instead of cops and top brass. Cops are poorly trained and beholden to top brass, and top brass have an agenda ....and it ain't justice.

>>> Not assume that the public are a bunch of dummies who will believe all the horseshit they're fed.

>>> Not allow rich and powerful people to control the direction of the investigation. In other words; follow leads to wherever they lead, instead of shielding/excusing certain well-connected groups of people as untouchable.

There definitely will be tough times for those in power trying to stick a crime on a couple of scapegoats now or in the future when there are guys like yourself on the scene with a higher code of moral values than those in Thailand with the responsibility of enforcing the law or the law itself. When everyone on the blogosphere knows who really did it and who is being conveniently falsely charged that should be good enough for Thai officialdom as well.

Not sure if that was a tongue in cheek comment or not!

However, it has been said on the thread before:

'For evil and injustice to prevail all a good man has to do, is nothing.'

We are fortunate that some good men are dopingf something.

[JLCrab]

Well as far as I'm concerned writing on the internet on what amounts to be pure speculation is as close to doing nothing as one can come without doing nothing.

And if you want to cue the Tom Joad speech "Wherever there’s a cop beatin’ up a guy, I’ll be there..." Tom Joad whacked an officer to death -- he didn't whack his keyboard.

So I'm off now for another day in LOS doig nothing while and I'll check in to review the sanctimony hurled at me later in the day.

Edited December 1, 2014 by JLCrab

[thailandchilli]

Latest news from the 'blogosphere'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/01/suspects-thai-murder-british-backpackers-charged?CMP=share_btn_tw

"Rights groups including Amnesty International have expressed concerns about the police investigation, citing apparent gaps in the evidence and the Thai authorities’ previous record of wrongly blaming Burmese nationals for high-profile crimes."

[jdinasia]

For the ones who followed the OJ case, the similarities are scary!

OJ:

1) a bloody trail from the murder scene to his house was indisputable

2) a car full with blood spatters and walkway

3) a DNA match with his blood & DNA of Nicole & Ron was found (not tampered)

4) a knife was missing from a knife box

5) a matching bloody shoe prints in the walkway at Nicole's

6) a bloody glove at his estate and bloody socks in the bedroom

7) a cut at his finger

8) an escape attempt in the Bronco

B2:

1) NO bloody trail from the murder scene to their room

2) NO room full with blood spatters, not even a tiny single drop was found

3) NO DNA match the first round, 2nd DNA round in 12 hours??

4) NO 2nd murder weapon was ever found, NO DNA on the hoe from David

5) NO matching foot prints in the sand

6) NO bloody clothes at their room, nothing, they were sleeping like baby's

7) NO cuts, bruises at them at all, yeah makes sense too. David versus Goliath

8) NO escape attempt from Koh Tao for two weeks!

The crazy thing, OJ got off the hook due to his brilliant lawyers "dream-team" who managed to convince a not too bright jury non tampered DNA was tampered with. The scary thing, the B2 will not have a dream-team, there will be no jury, and the Thai court will probably convict on tampered DNA!

It is very worrying these guys could be put to death by lethal injection (soon)!

Welcome to Thailand the land of smiles!

There are so many errors in your assessment of the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers.

[BritTim]

Latest news from the 'blogosphere'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/01/suspects-thai-murder-british-backpackers-charged?CMP=share_btn_tw

"Rights groups including Amnesty International have expressed concerns about the police investigation, citing apparent gaps in the evidence and the Thai authorities’ previous record of wrongly blaming Burmese nationals for high-profile crimes."

I find the most interesting part is:

The regional head prosecutor, Thawatchai Siangjaew, reportedly said the combined evidence, including witnesses and DNA, was strong enough for the prosecution to begin.

Their original star witness, the third Burmese, I understood, had testified that he knew nothing that would link them to the crime. Have they found new witness(es)? Who are they? My suspicion is that the identity of the witnesses will remain confidential as long as possible to avoid independent examination of their credibility.

[jdinasia]

Without doing another nested quote, I would like to think that the reason that the District prosecution team has been unwilling to-date to move forward with this case is that they are honest people and good lawyers and do not wish to proceed with a case that they believe will lack sufficient credibility and that such decision has been made on the merits of the case and not because of pressure or publicity from any source. Call me naive on that one if you like.

I won't call you naive, but easily duped. The prosecution is working hand-in-glove with police (who have little or no forensic training) to try and frame the B2. What they should do is admit there's no viable case against the B2 and simply acquit them. They're under orders from police top brass (possibly going all the way up to the PM) to get resolution of this, in order to try and stop tourist #'s from dropping. They've all been broadsided from the incredible public outrage from hundreds of thousands of Thais and farang.

Things used to be so much easier and simpler for Thai investigators. They'd frame a scapegoat or (more often) give up on a case (usually due to incompetence) and know that the public would forget about it - and there's always some other news hitting the fan. This time they're between a rock and a hard place. Hopefully, some good things will come out of this, regardless of whether the scapegoats are found guilty or whether cops have the decency and professionalism to look at those who should be suspects. Hopefully, future crime cases in Thailand:

>>> will be professionally dealt with

>>> will call in expert investigators, instead of cops and top brass. Cops are poorly trained and beholden to top brass, and top brass have an agenda ....and it ain't justice.

>>> Not assume that the public are a bunch of dummies who will believe all the horseshit they're fed.

>>> Not allow rich and powerful people to control the direction of the investigation. In other words; follow leads to wherever they lead, instead of shielding/excusing certain well-connected groups of people as untouchable.

You start with a premise that contradicts your earlier posts about why the prosecution failed to indict and sent the case back 4 times.

Then go on to your standard rant.

[z42]

For the ones who followed the OJ case, the similarities are scary!

OJ:

1) a bloody trail from the murder scene to his house was indisputable

2) a car full with blood spatters and walkway

3) a DNA match with his blood & DNA of Nicole & Ron was found (not tampered)

4) a knife was missing from a knife box

5) a matching bloody shoe prints in the walkway at Nicole's

6) a bloody glove at his estate and bloody socks in the bedroom

7) a cut at his finger

8) an escape attempt in the Bronco

B2:

1) NO bloody trail from the murder scene to their room

2) NO room full with blood spatters, not even a tiny single drop was found

3) NO DNA match the first round, 2nd DNA round in 12 hours??

4) NO 2nd murder weapon was ever found, NO DNA on the hoe from David

5) NO matching foot prints in the sand

6) NO bloody clothes at their room, nothing, they were sleeping like baby's

7) NO cuts, bruises at them at all, yeah makes sense too. David versus Goliath

8) NO escape attempt from Koh Tao for two weeks!

The crazy thing, OJ got off the hook due to his brilliant lawyers "dream-team" who managed to convince a not too bright jury non tampered DNA was tampered with. The scary thing, the B2 will not have a dream-team, there will be no jury, and the Thai court will probably convict on tampered DNA!

It is very worrying these guys could be put to death by lethal injection (soon)!

Welcome to Thailand the land of smiles!

There are so many errors in your assessment of the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers.

Elaborate please JD. Preferably without deflecting anything too.

[Bleacher Bum East]

Well as far as I'm concerned writing on the internet on what amounts to be pure speculation is as close to doing nothing as one can come without doing nothing.

And if you want to cue the Tom Joad speech "Wherever there’s a cop beatin’ up a guy, I’ll be there..." Tom Joad whacked an officer to death -- he didn't whack his keyboard.

So I'm off now for another day in LOS doig nothing while and I'll check in to review the sanctimony hurled at me later in the day.

"And if you want to cue the Tom Joad speech "Wherever there’s a cop beatin’ up a guy, I’ll be there..." Tom Joad whacked an officer to death -- he didn't whack his keyboard."

What do you think has more social impact for change, a guy like Tom Joad whacking an officer to death, or a guy like John Steinbeck whacking his keyboard and revealing the unjust circumstances that would cause a guy like Tom Joad to whack an officer to death?

“But words are things and a small drop of ink,

Falling like a dew, upon a thought produces

That which makes thousands, perhaps millions think"

― George Gordon Byron, Don Juan

I have a question which I'm sure will be perceived as sanctimonious, but is actually sincere:

If you think all the people speculating on the internet are doing close to nothing, why do you bother commenting on their posts at all?

[boomerangutang]

There definitely will be tough times for those in power trying to stick a crime on a couple of scapegoats now or in the future when there are guys like yourself on the scene with a higher code of moral values than those in Thailand with the responsibility of enforcing the law or the law itself. When everyone on the blogosphere knows who really did it and who is being conveniently falsely charged that should be good enough for Thai officialdom as well.

You're now calling the B2 scapegoats?! There are many Thai-on-farang crimes in Thailand which don't create a whirlwind of concern by tens of thousands of Thais and farang. Why has this case become so prominent? Answer: Because of fumbling and frame-up and shielding the headman's people (by officials) has been so evident to so many who aren't afraid to speak out. Earlier crime cases were fumbled, but the online media wasn't quite as robust then as now. With internet access so prevalent, it's easier to speak out. Thai officials were blindsided. We don't expect justice for this case, but hopefully for future crimes (some possibly by the same perps who killed Hannah and David) ....perhaps police won't be so quick to do their biz-as-usual.

In a different scenario, if internet chatter was saying things which Thai officialdom wanted to hear, Thai officials would be praising and publicizing it as much as possible.

There are so many errors in your assessment of the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers.

Elaborate please JD. Preferably without deflecting anything too.

I thought JD had taken a sabbatical because we hadn't heard from him in a few hours. <snip>

Edited December 2, 2014 by Jai Dee
Flame deleted

[jdinasia]

For the ones who followed the OJ case, the similarities are scary!

OJ:

1) a bloody trail from the murder scene to his house was indisputable

2) a car full with blood spatters and walkway

3) a DNA match with his blood & DNA of Nicole & Ron was found (not tampered)

4) a knife was missing from a knife box

5) a matching bloody shoe prints in the walkway at Nicole's

6) a bloody glove at his estate and bloody socks in the bedroom

7) a cut at his finger

8) an escape attempt in the Bronco

B2:

1) NO bloody trail from the murder scene to their room

2) NO room full with blood spatters, not even a tiny single drop was found

3) NO DNA match the first round, 2nd DNA round in 12 hours??

4) NO 2nd murder weapon was ever found, NO DNA on the hoe from David

5) NO matching foot prints in the sand

6) NO bloody clothes at their room, nothing, they were sleeping like baby's

7) NO cuts, bruises at them at all, yeah makes sense too. David versus Goliath

8) NO escape attempt from Koh Tao for two weeks!

The crazy thing, OJ got off the hook due to his brilliant lawyers "dream-team" who managed to convince a not too bright jury non tampered DNA was tampered with. The scary thing, the B2 will not have a dream-team, there will be no jury, and the Thai court will probably convict on tampered DNA!

It is very worrying these guys could be put to death by lethal injection (soon)!

Welcome to Thailand the land of smiles!

There are so many errors in your assessment of the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers.

Elaborate please JD. Preferably without deflecting anything too.

This is not the OJ case.

Ocean (so no blood trail) same for the room.

First round of DNA ran tests on 36 of 80

Footprints - sand.

Clothes destroyed

No need for cuts or bruises

One captured off the island with dyed hair

[z42]

For the ones who followed the OJ case, the similarities are scary!

OJ:

1) a bloody trail from the murder scene to his house was indisputable

2) a car full with blood spatters and walkway

3) a DNA match with his blood & DNA of Nicole & Ron was found (not tampered)

4) a knife was missing from a knife box

5) a matching bloody shoe prints in the walkway at Nicole's

6) a bloody glove at his estate and bloody socks in the bedroom

7) a cut at his finger

8) an escape attempt in the Bronco

B2:

1) NO bloody trail from the murder scene to their room

2) NO room full with blood spatters, not even a tiny single drop was found

3) NO DNA match the first round, 2nd DNA round in 12 hours??

4) NO 2nd murder weapon was ever found, NO DNA on the hoe from David

5) NO matching foot prints in the sand

6) NO bloody clothes at their room, nothing, they were sleeping like baby's

7) NO cuts, bruises at them at all, yeah makes sense too. David versus Goliath

8) NO escape attempt from Koh Tao for two weeks!

The crazy thing, OJ got off the hook due to his brilliant lawyers "dream-team" who managed to convince a not too bright jury non tampered DNA was tampered with. The scary thing, the B2 will not have a dream-team, there will be no jury, and the Thai court will probably convict on tampered DNA!

It is very worrying these guys could be put to death by lethal injection (soon)!

Welcome to Thailand the land of smiles!

There are so many errors in your assessment of the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers.

Elaborate please JD. Preferably without deflecting anything too.

This is not the OJ case.

Ocean (so no blood trail) same for the room.

First round of DNA ran tests on 36 of 80

Footprints - sand.

Clothes destroyed

No need for cuts or bruises

One captured off the island with dyed hair

Without deflection. You say that foe example that clothes were destroyed. As yet we don't know by whom or where they were destroyed.

Footprints were left in the sand but as a certain bar owner was photographed on the crime scene before police arrived then it is fair to say any footprint evidence is inadmissable.

A group of 3 burmese workers were suspects as CCTV placed them at the scene (3 of around 12 suspects if I remmeber the report correctly) and it was reported that their DNA didn't match hence their release.

No need for cuts and bruises? Explain, I don't follow sorry.

Who was captured off the island with dyed hair, where is the photo?

One man who was captured off the island in let's say suspicious circumstances was the man discussed in this article. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

Even you must admit that the behaviour of the speedboat drivers was suspicious. Or are we just going to overlook this as a conspiracy theory and not worthy of more investigation even by the new team.

[thailandchilli]

Latest news from the 'blogosphere'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/01/suspects-thai-murder-british-backpackers-charged?CMP=share_btn_tw

"Rights groups including Amnesty International have expressed concerns about the police investigation, citing apparent gaps in the evidence and the Thai authorities’ previous record of wrongly blaming Burmese nationals for high-profile crimes."

I find the most interesting part is:

The regional head prosecutor, Thawatchai Siangjaew, reportedly said the combined evidence, including witnesses and DNA, was strong enough for the prosecution to begin.

Their original star witness, the third Burmese, I understood, had testified that he knew nothing that would link them to the crime. Have they found new witness(es)? Who are they? My suspicion is that the identity of the witnesses will remain confidential as long as possible to avoid independent examination of their credibility.

Yes interesting point Tim, witness statements far easier to get than real hard evidence such as untampered DNA, the second weapon, or even having a go at identifying a prime suspect on cctv running at the time of the murders.

Witness statements, are these going to be as credible as this one if the taxi driver had taken the bribe offered by the RTP

"Man says police beat him after he declined to be witness in Koh Tao murder case" http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4373

Edited December 2, 2014 by thailandchilli

[JLCrab]

I haven't called anyone a scapegoat. I have never read anything that would totally exculpate those in custody and I don't buy the choir boy defense.I believe the main reason this case has become so prominent and not gone forward is that the murder victims were UK citizens and the UK F&CO has exerted the maximum pressure it can both publicly and sotto voce within the boundaries of diplomatic protocol.

The voices often expressed in the online medium may have been as much distraction as any underlying reason for the state of affairs. I came to this in part after seeing the picture of the late Ms. Witheridge cheek-to-cheek with who some considered a person of interest when the photo was obviously a Photoshop composite.

From the 23 NOV 2014 Guardian article http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/23/briton-thailand-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-mystery-mafia-fear

Among the sceptics is Nakhon Chomphuchat, the leading Thai human rights lawyer defending the suspects. “If I thought they had done it I couldn’t work for them,” he told the Guardian. “Of course, no one can ever say with 100% accuracy, but I’m pretty certain they didn’t.”

.. except for a few of the ThaiVisa regulars who have no problem expressing their certainty.

Edited December 2, 2014 by JLCrab

[jdinasia]

Latest news from the 'blogosphere'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/01/suspects-thai-murder-british-backpackers-charged?CMP=share_btn_tw

"Rights groups including Amnesty International have expressed concerns about the police investigation, citing apparent gaps in the evidence and the Thai authorities’ previous record of wrongly blaming Burmese nationals for high-profile crimes."

I find the most interesting part is:

The regional head prosecutor, Thawatchai Siangjaew, reportedly said the combined evidence, including witnesses and DNA, was strong enough for the prosecution to begin.

Their original star witness, the third Burmese, I understood, had testified that he knew nothing that would link them to the crime. Have they found new witness(es)? Who are they? My suspicion is that the identity of the witnesses will remain confidential as long as possible to avoid independent examination of their credibility.

I think you will find that the Burmese men deposed earlier didn't include the third man that left before the attack. We'll know for sure during the trial.

[Bleacher Bum East]

Latest news from the 'blogosphere'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/01/suspects-thai-murder-british-backpackers-charged?CMP=share_btn_tw

"Rights groups including Amnesty International have expressed concerns about the police investigation, citing apparent gaps in the evidence and the Thai authorities’ previous record of wrongly blaming Burmese nationals for high-profile crimes."

I find the most interesting part is:

The regional head prosecutor, Thawatchai Siangjaew, reportedly said the combined evidence, including witnesses and DNA, was strong enough for the prosecution to begin.

Their original star witness, the third Burmese, I understood, had testified that he knew nothing that would link them to the crime. Have they found new witness(es)? Who are they? My suspicion is that the identity of the witnesses will remain confidential as long as possible to avoid independent examination of their credibility.

I think you will find that the Burmese men deposed earlier didn't include the third man that left before the attack. We'll know for sure during the trial.

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-third-man-released-returning-to-burma-myanmar/45040

"Speaking to DVB by telephone on Wednesday afternoon on condition that his location was not disclosed, Maung Maung said he was released on Tuesday evening, following his testimony in a Koh Samui courthouse that day.

'I testified exactly what I knew to be true – that I drank beer with my friends Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, that I left them on the beach to go to my girlfriend’s room, and that I found them sleeping in our room when I came home around 5 in the morning.'"

[falangjim]

Anthony 5, English is my first language, thailandchilli said "I'd be happy to bring with me any messages for them from anyone on here". He didn't say "everyone" so hasn't presumed any authority. The phrase "99%" is commonly used in the UK and other english speaking countries, when, in the absence any real data, it signifies the writers impression of a large majority. Your quote about engaging a psychiatrist because somebody has stated their intentions makes no sense in the context you are using it. A psychiatrist primarily deals with mental health issues, there is nothing in your requote that suggests the poster has mental health issues.

If English is indeed your first language, then I suggest you learn to read since I replied to uty6543 instead of Thailandchili in regards to the 99% of the farang community.

My comment regarding the mental health issues of some members came because it is quite obvious that some are dreaming away if they think that the two accused are waiting for them and that the Samui times gonna jump in the fire for them.

So if that's the context in which you said it. Then making such a flippant remark deserves the same in return.

Delivering messages and flowers along with my daughter and wife is the least I can do. I along with many posters have these 2 guys in our minds daily and feel for the injustice they are suffering. It sends them a message that they are not forgotten completely, they already get plenty of the same through other channels however I am in a position where its not too difficult for me to do this.

The mention of Samui times, note the 'I may', was me thinking out loud however it would not be beyond the realms of possibility for them to take a shot of my daughter handing over flowers to the lawyer or representative. Why would you think they would be jumping into the fire? But regardless this is going to happen, without the consultation of a psychiatrist. Do they have good ones in Thailand? Guess you must know eh

People who think they can solve a crime investigation from behind their keyboard definitely need to see a psych.

over 400,000 people on CSI LA would disagree

[jdinasia]

All we know about the people that hit "like" on csila, is that they all hit like once.

[thailandchilli]

Actually we do know that CSI reaches over 3 million people daily. Stats are out there if you care to look, but that pales into insignificance with the 10's of millions of people who also read the press and watch tv to listen to and read the damning reports on this case.

[jdinasia]

Latest news from the 'blogosphere'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/01/suspects-thai-murder-british-backpackers-charged?CMP=share_btn_tw

"Rights groups including Amnesty International have expressed concerns about the police investigation, citing apparent gaps in the evidence and the Thai authorities’ previous record of wrongly blaming Burmese nationals for high-profile crimes."

I find the most interesting part is:

The regional head prosecutor, Thawatchai Siangjaew, reportedly said the combined evidence, including witnesses and DNA, was strong enough for the prosecution to begin.

Their original star witness, the third Burmese, I understood, had testified that he knew nothing that would link them to the crime. Have they found new witness(es)? Who are they? My suspicion is that the identity of the witnesses will remain confidential as long as possible to avoid independent examination of their credibility.

I think you will find that the Burmese men deposed earlier didn't include the third man that left before the attack. We'll know for sure during the trial.

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-third-man-released-returning-to-burma-myanmar/45040

"Speaking to DVB by telephone on Wednesday afternoon on condition that his location was not disclosed, Maung Maung said he was released on Tuesday evening, following his testimony in a Koh Samui courthouse that day.

'I testified exactly what I knew to be true – that I drank beer with my friends Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, that I left them on the beach to go to my girlfriend’s room, and that I found them sleeping in our room when I came home around 5 in the morning.'"

Thanks.

I had not seen that article. I had to look up what DVB was.

Interesting quote "The pair testified that they were given the phone by the suspects and decided to smash it with a hammer after being unable to use it, he said."

[jdinasia]

Actually we do know that CSI reaches over 3 million people daily. Stats are out there if you care to look, but that pales into insignificance with the 10's of millions of people who also read the press and watch tv to listen to and read the damning reports on this case.

We know that from csila. LOL

Plus, since people who may not agree with the conspiracy theories on csila also look at it... We can ascertain nothing from the numbers.

The same for other press sources. Clicks neither represent actual views nor agreement.

[thailandchilli]

Actually we do know that CSI reaches over 3 million people daily. Stats are out there if you care to look, but that pales into insignificance with the 10's of millions of people who also read the press and watch tv to listen to and read the damning reports on this case.

We know that from csila. LOL

Plus, since people who may not agree with the conspiracy theories on csila also look at it... We can ascertain nothing from the numbers.

The same for other press sources. Clicks neither represent actual views nor agreement.

No we know that from the public stats on facebook, strange how you also make previous statements that some articles online in the media are published just for views, still we are used to you're contradictions

Edited December 2, 2014 by thailandchilli

[JLCrab]

Well as far as I'm concerned writing on the internet on what amounts to be pure speculation is as close to doing nothing as one can come without doing nothing.

And if you want to cue the Tom Joad speech "Wherever there’s a cop beatin’ up a guy, I’ll be there..." Tom Joad whacked an officer to death -- he didn't whack his keyboard.

So I'm off now for another day in LOS doig nothing while and I'll check in to review the sanctimony hurled at me later in the day.

"And if you want to cue the Tom Joad speech "Wherever there’s a cop beatin’ up a guy, I’ll be there..." Tom Joad whacked an officer to death -- he didn't whack his keyboard."

What do you think has more social impact for change, a guy like Tom Joad whacking an officer to death, or a guy like John Steinbeck whacking his keyboard and revealing the unjust circumstances that would cause a guy like Tom Joad to whack an officer to death?

“But words are things and a small drop of ink,

Falling like a dew, upon a thought produces

That which makes thousands, perhaps millions think"

― George Gordon Byron, Don Juan

I have a question which I'm sure will be perceived as sanctimonious, but is actually sincere:

If you think all the people speculating on the internet are doing close to nothing, why do you bother commenting on their posts at all?

Sorry I missed this one.So now you are some of your fellow posters may see yourselves in the light of John Steinbeck, Edmund Burke, Lord Byron and maybe Mahatma Gandhi, Emile Zola (Dreyfus Affair And the I Accuse Letter), and ML King in your posting anonymous speculations about what happened in this unfortunate crime?

Although the book 'Grapes of Wrath' was immensely popular when written Steinbeck took a lot of heat from all sides of the political spectrum. He didn't hide behind his keyboard.

I comment on here because the phenomenon of the 'power of social media' intrigues me an d I have observed and been confronted with it in my non-anonymous non-ThaiVisa existence. That's why.

I remember back in the USA when I had cable TV I would often see the promo spot for the Discovery Channel whose slogan was "Explore your world!" I would talk back to the TV: You''re not exploring your world. You're sitting on your ass watching television."

Edited December 2, 2014 by JLCrab

[jdinasia]

Actually we do know that CSI reaches over 3 million people daily. Stats are out there if you care to look, but that pales into insignificance with the 10's of millions of people who also read the press and watch tv to listen to and read the damning reports on this case.

We know that from csila. LOL

Plus, since people who may not agree with the conspiracy theories on csila also look at it... We can ascertain nothing from the numbers.

The same for other press sources. Clicks neither represent actual views nor agreement.

No we know that from the public stats on facebook, strange how you also make previous statements that some articles online in the media are published just for views, still we are used to you're contradictions

Strange how that is not what I said.

I am used to people not being able to read