Merkel 'would accept UK exit from EU'

[Tep]

The whole concept of "freedom of movement" was fine while the countries exposed were the ones that are (or were) on a roughly equal financial footing. Once the poor countries were admitted, their citizens were given the right to move into these "rich" countries, and settle and work - fine (sort of) so far... BUT - the government handouts, and easy welfare society plus the lax attitude to racism (by immigrants against the host nation), made the UK the jewel in the crown, and the place to go - so rather than the extra people simply becoming an evenly spread workforce distributed across all of the EU (which would have worked perfectly), and thus abiding by the concept of freedom of movement, the new migrants wanted a nice place with generous welfare that was easy to obtain, and it simply became a "freedom of entry to the UK" system instead.

Under the present system of free handouts by the PC tw*ts (< that has an "a" in it) in government, and the lack of common sense in which countries should be allowed entry to the EU, this is bound to fail, and is already doing so - witness: the scenes at Calais...

So let's see how these sentiments hold up to a comparative analysis with, for the sake of argument, internal population shifts in the US. The US is a federation of 50 states. Let's assume this is analogous to the EU. There is constant internal population movement, most dramatically in California and the South West over the past couple of decades. Yet you don't see anything written about the 'East Coasters' or Georgians or Floridians moving to these high growth states.

This report https://migration.ucdavis.edu/mn/more.php?id=990_0_2_0 concludes that there is an overall net economic benefit of internal migration to California.

What is different in the case of the UK and the EU. Clearly it is the racial origins of the immigrants. Clearly it is also the hysteria about illegal immigration. This is why a discussion on the UK's participation in the EU, which should be an economic debate, quickly deteriorates into an anti-immigration rant-fest with racial overtones.

[chuckd]

I'm reminded of what a wise old Texan said long ago...

"Yankees are just like hemorrhoids.

If they come down and then go back up, they are fine.

If they come down and stay down, that's a problem"

Edited November 8, 2014 by chuckd

[JockPieandBeans]

The whole concept of "freedom of movement" was fine while the countries exposed were the ones that are (or were) on a roughly equal financial footing. Once the poor countries were admitted, their citizens were given the right to move into these "rich" countries, and settle and work - fine (sort of) so far... BUT - the government handouts, and easy welfare society plus the lax attitude to racism (by immigrants against the host nation), made the UK the jewel in the crown, and the place to go - so rather than the extra people simply becoming an evenly spread workforce distributed across all of the EU (which would have worked perfectly), and thus abiding by the concept of freedom of movement, the new migrants wanted a nice place with generous welfare that was easy to obtain, and it simply became a "freedom of entry to the UK" system instead.

Under the present system of free handouts by the PC tw*ts (< that has an "a" in it) in government, and the lack of common sense in which countries should be allowed entry to the EU, this is bound to fail, and is already doing so - witness: the scenes at Calais...

So let's see how these sentiments hold up to a comparative analysis with, for the sake of argument, internal population shifts in the US. The US is a federation of 50 states. Let's assume this is analogous to the EU. There is constant internal population movement, most dramatically in California and the South West over the past couple of decades. Yet you don't see anything written about the 'East Coasters' or Georgians or Floridians moving to these high growth states.

This report https://migration.ucdavis.edu/mn/more.php?id=990_0_2_0 concludes that there is an overall net economic benefit of internal migration to California.

What is different in the case of the UK and the EU. Clearly it is the racial origins of the immigrants. Clearly it is also the hysteria about illegal immigration. This is why a discussion on the UK's participation in the EU, which should be an economic debate, quickly deteriorates into an anti-immigration rant-fest with racial overtones.

You still insist in your off topic crap. What has the US got to do with the topic ?

US citizens moving internally around the US is nothing like UK Immigration.

In the UK, Immigration and Economics go hand in hand, one affects the other.

http://news.sky.com/story/1368505/nhs-trusts-cash-crisis-unsustainable

Illegal migrants see the UK as a "soft touch" and its benefits system acts as a "magnet" to them, the mayor of the French city of Calais has told MPs.

Ms Bouchart estimated that 2,500 illegal immigrants were now living in Calais and that most were Eritrean, Ethiopian, Sudanese, Syrian, Egyptian, Lebanese, Iranian and Iraqi.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29799733

All made it safely to France, but camped up in Calais trying to get to the UK.

[7by7]

Please explain why I am an Immigrant ? I merely live here, because the Law allows it and I can.

I don't think other people can tell you "why" you immigrated to Thailand.

Are you saying that you came here to live temporarily.... if not... then you have immigrated...

Immigrant means "come to live permanently in a foreign country"

It all comes down to your "intent". If you intend to stay here until you die, you are an immigrant. If you intend to return after a specified period, you have not immigrated.

Of course it comes down to intent. I currently live here because it suits me and the Law allows it.

Is it permanent ? Who knows, the Thai's could quite feasibly change their Law's or I could equally choose to move somewhere else.

Have I any intention of applying for PR or Citizenship ? No.

So no, I do not consider myself to be an Immigrant.

Using your own definition, you cannot consider EU nationals currently in the UK to be immigrants!

They live in the UK because the law allows it; just like you in Thailand.

If the UK leaves the UK, this law will change.

Most (all?) of them, like yourself in Thailand, have yet to decide whether or not to make their stay in the UK permanent and do not intend to apply for British citizenship.

Seems that you and they are virtually identical!

Edited November 8, 2014 by 7by7

[JockPieandBeans]

Using your own definition, you cannot consider EU nationals currently in the UK to be immigrants!

They live in the UK because the law allows it; just like you in Thailand.

If the UK leaves the UK, this law will change.

Most (all?) of them, like yourself in Thailand, have yet to decide whether or not to make their stay in the UK permanent and do not intend to apply for British citizenship.

Seems that you and they are virtually identical!

http://www.bbc.com/n...litics-29799733

All made it safely to France, but camped up in Calais trying to get to the UK.

Of course all these people are EU Citizens ?

Nothing like me,

[7by7]

<snip>

Illegal migrants see the UK as a "soft touch" and its benefits system acts as a "magnet" to them, the mayor of the French city of Calais has told MPs.

Ms Bouchart estimated that 2,500 illegal immigrants were now living in Calais and that most were Eritrean, Ethiopian, Sudanese, Syrian, Egyptian, Lebanese, Iranian and Iraqi.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29799733

All made it safely to France, but camped up in Calais trying to get to the UK.

As you, surprisingly rightly, said earlier, these people are not EU citizens; they are non EU national refugees and asylum seekers.

There are many, complex reasons why asylum seekers want to come to the UK.

Some may see the UK as a soft touch; but if so they are wrong.

The facts about asylum. Asylum seekers and refugees do not get large handouts from the state

Once they have entered the Schengen area, usually illegally, they can then easily make their way to Calais. But as the UK is not a member of the Schengen area, they can get no further without passing through UK immigration or entering the UK illegally.

This would not change were the UK to leave the EU.

I did not compare you to asylum seekers in Calais; I compared you to EU nationals legally living in the UK; as you do in Thailand.

From what you said, it seems that your and their situations and motivations are very, very similar.

Edited November 8, 2014 by 7by7

[JockPieandBeans]

<snip>

Illegal migrants see the UK as a "soft touch" and its benefits system acts as a "magnet" to them, the mayor of the French city of Calais has told MPs.

Ms Bouchart estimated that 2,500 illegal immigrants were now living in Calais and that most were Eritrean, Ethiopian, Sudanese, Syrian, Egyptian, Lebanese, Iranian and Iraqi.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29799733

All made it safely to France, but camped up in Calais trying to get to the UK.

As you, surprisingly rightly, said earlier, these people are not EU citizens; they are non EU national refugees and asylum seekers.

There are many, complex reasons why asylum seekers want to come to the UK.

Some may see the UK as a soft touch; but if so they are wrong.

The facts about asylum. Asylum seekers and refugees do not get large handouts from the state

Once they have entered the Schengen area, usually illegally, they can then easily make their way to Calais. But as the UK is not a member of the Schengen area, they can get no further without passing through UK immigration or entering the UK illegally.

This would not change were the UK to leave the EU.

I did not compare you to asylum seekers in Calais; I compared you to EU nationals legally living in the UK; as you do in Thailand.

From what you said, it seems that your and their situations and motivations are very, very similar.

Right, so they made it illegally but safely to France, but they are now queued up in Calais to get to the UK, I wonder why that would be ?

7500 the French have arrested this year, how many made it to the UK ? Of course in your perfect world, non have made it to the UK shores.

Please explain why you think my situation and motivation is similar ? There is no similarity whatsoever.

[Thongkorn]

I thought Britain had fought two world wars to stop oppression from Germany. we want to leave

[7by7]

JockPieandBeans, I have already explained why your situation and motivations are, based purely on what you have said yourself, very similar to EU nationals living in the UK.

Why you seem to think that I am comparing you to asylum seekers in Calais, only you know.

[JockPieandBeans]

JockPieandBeans, I have already explained why your situation and motivations are, based purely on what you have said yourself, very similar to EU nationals living in the UK.

Why you seem to think that I am comparing you to asylum seekers in Calais, only you know.

Let me SPELL it out for you.

I live in Thailand under the Retirement rules, because I can.

How many EU Nationals migrate to the UK to RETIRE ?

Now tell me again why my situation is similar to EU Nationals ?

[7by7]

I do not know how many EU nationals live in the UK as pensioners, as you do in Thailand, and can't be bothered to look it up.

But those who do use the UK's EU immigration regulations to so do; as you use the Thai immigration regulations to live in Thailand.

As you seemed to have missed the reasons for my comparison before; here it is again.

Of course it comes down to intent. I currently live here because it suits me and the Law allows it.

Is it permanent ? Who knows, the Thai's could quite feasibly change their Law's or I could equally choose to move somewhere else.

Have I any intention of applying for PR or Citizenship ? No.

So no, I do not consider myself to be an Immigrant.

Using your own definition, you cannot consider EU nationals currently in the UK to be immigrants!

They live in the UK because the law allows it; just like you in Thailand.

If the UK leaves the UK, this law will change.

Most (all?) of them, like yourself in Thailand, have yet to decide whether or not to make their stay in the UK permanent and do not intend to apply for British citizenship.

Seems that you and they are virtually identical!

So, how are you different?

[JockPieandBeans]

I do not know how many EU nationals live in the UK as pensioners, as you do in Thailand, and can't be bothered to look it up.

I will give you a clue, there will not be many EU Nationals that have the UK as their retirement destination.

Most, if not all the EU Nationals that head for the UK shores are economic migrants looking for work.

Most will use UK Services.

Most will be looking for a UK Passport.

Nothing like me at all.

[7by7]

The above post nothing except baseless assumption.

However, I will see if there are any figures and post them when I have the time (I do have a life, and it is calling me right now).

Meanwhile, I suggest that you peruse The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.

[Tep]

You still insist in your off topic crap. What has the US got to do with the topic ?

US citizens moving internally around the US is nothing like UK Immigration.

In the UK, Immigration and Economics go hand in hand, one affects the other.

http://news.sky.com/story/1368505/nhs-trusts-cash-crisis-unsustainable

Not surprising you don't have the capacity to accept anything that interferes with your anti immigrant, racist agenda. I was not posting for your pleasure. Others will make their own decisions on the merits of my posting. I have no interest in your comments. They will just get you deleted as usual.

I will leave you arguing why people should listen to you, an immigrant to Thailand ranting against immigrants to the UK. Hypocrite.

[Tep]

I'm reminded of what a wise old Texan said long ago...

"Yankees are just like hemorrhoids.

If they come down and then go back up, they are fine.

If they come down and stay down, that's a problem"

Come on Chuck. You can tell the truth. You really have a retirement place set up in Austin, Texas. I hear it is the place for progressives in the Lone Star State. Rick Perry won't go near the place. His new specs won't make any difference there.

Aside from internal migration to Austin, I don't really hear of much interest in moving to other parts of Texas. The interesting people and those with money keep travelling west to New Mexico and Arizona.

Besides I heard that haemorrhoid saying from a good old Southern boy from Georgia on American Pickers a few weeks back!

[japsportscarmad]

Your a bit off post old chaps.

[samran]

I do not know how many EU nationals live in the UK as pensioners, as you do in Thailand, and can't be bothered to look it up.

But those who do use the UK's EU immigration regulations to so do; as you use the Thai immigration regulations to live in Thailand.

As you seemed to have missed the reasons for my comparison before; here it is again.

Using your own definition, you cannot consider EU nationals currently in the UK to be immigrants!

They live in the UK because the law allows it; just like you in Thailand.

If the UK leaves the UK, this law will change.

Most (all?) of them, like yourself in Thailand, have yet to decide whether or not to make their stay in the UK permanent and do not intend to apply for British citizenship.

Seems that you and they are virtually identical!

So, how are you different?

People struggle with the word immigrant, particularly when they find out that they are one themselves.

For the little englander UKIP types, it must be like they just found out they were abandoned as a child and they actually come from Romania.

But I suppose they are so bloody special that they go somewhere other than 'immigration' to do their papers...

Edited November 8, 2014 by samran

[japsportscarmad]

I can trace my family back past 1000 bc but originally we came from the Nordic areas.

But there's a big difference in those at were immigrants 1000 years ago and those just arriving been given free housing benefits and health care at the expense of those here now and working. Some of the UKIP do look a bit odd though

[ukrules]

Using your own definition, you cannot consider EU nationals currently in the UK to be immigrants!

They live in the UK because the law allows it; just like you in Thailand.

If the UK leaves the UK, this law will change.

Most (all?) of them, like yourself in Thailand, have yet to decide whether or not to make their stay in the UK permanent and do not intend to apply for British citizenship.

Seems that you and they are virtually identical!

http://www.bbc.com/n...litics-29799733

All made it safely to France, but camped up in Calais trying to get to the UK.

Of course all these people are EU Citizens ?

Nothing like me,

None of the people in Calais are EU citizens, this is why they are staying in Calais and attempting to illegally enter the UK.

The anti immigration mob love to muddy the waters with these two very different groups of people and lump them all in the same group.

People from within the EU generally go to the UK to work, the illegal immigrants will find it very hard to get any kind of work as it's not allowed (no tax id, big fines for employers of illegals, etc) so they go down the asylum route instead and claim as much money as they can as they're not allowed to work.

A new police force popped up out of nowhere a few years back just to chase illegal immigrants around and arrest them. The fines for small businesses who employ them are enough to bankrupt many of them.

[JockPieandBeans]

You still insist in your off topic crap. What has the US got to do with the topic ?

US citizens moving internally around the US is nothing like UK Immigration.

In the UK, Immigration and Economics go hand in hand, one affects the other.

http://news.sky.com/story/1368505/nhs-trusts-cash-crisis-unsustainable

Not surprising you don't have the capacity to accept anything that interferes with your anti immigrant, racist agenda. I was not posting for your pleasure. Others will make their own decisions on the merits of my posting. I have no interest in your comments. They will just get you deleted as usual.

I will leave you arguing why people should listen to you, an immigrant to Thailand ranting against immigrants to the UK. Hypocrite.

The man who claims to have worked in Afghan.

Who would love to see it becoming a prosperous, democracy in his lifetime.

You really think it wants to become a democracy ?

When you come out with crap like that, your opinion on anything is pretty irrelevant.

[JockPieandBeans]

None of the people in Calais are EU citizens, this is why they are staying in Calais and attempting to illegally enter the UK.

The anti immigration mob love to muddy the waters with these two very different groups of people and lump them all in the same group.

People from within the EU generally go to the UK to work, the illegal immigrants will find it very hard to get any kind of work as it's not allowed (no tax id, big fines for employers of illegals, etc) so they go down the asylum route instead and claim as much money as they can as they're not allowed to work.

A new police force popped up out of nowhere a few years back just to chase illegal immigrants around and arrest them. The fines for small businesses who employ them are enough to bankrupt many of them.

UKR

I think you missed my sarcasm.

[chuckd]

I'm reminded of what a wise old Texan said long ago...

"Yankees are just like hemorrhoids.

If they come down and then go back up, they are fine.

If they come down and stay down, that's a problem"

Come on Chuck. You can tell the truth. You really have a retirement place set up in Austin, Texas. I hear it is the place for progressives in the Lone Star State. Rick Perry won't go near the place. His new specs won't make any difference there.

Aside from internal migration to Austin, I don't really hear of much interest in moving to other parts of Texas. The interesting people and those with money keep travelling west to New Mexico and Arizona.

Besides I heard that haemorrhoid saying from a good old Southern boy from Georgia on American Pickers a few weeks back!

Yeah, I got the tale from The Pickers as well. And what I said was 100% correct. That episode was shot in Texas several seasons ago.

The rest of it is true also.

You might want to catch up with the recent history of population redistribution in the US. Lots of both legal and illegal immigrants moving to Texas.

[bkkcanuck8]

I can trace my family back past 1000 bc but originally we came from the Nordic areas.

But there's a big difference in those at were immigrants 1000 years ago and those just arriving been given free housing benefits and health care at the expense of those here now and working. Some of the UKIP do look a bit odd though

You can trace your family tree back over 3000 years (probably close to 80 generations)? That is pretty incredible, do you have names for all the people in between? At a certain point (UK it was under 1000 years ago) they did not have last names so it makes it pretty difficult. About the only ones that I thought could do that were some Chinese. I only have one line that I can trace back about 1000 years - France (from Viking origin) who came to England (yes an immigrant) with William the Conqueror.... most of the rest of my lines only go back to maybe the early 1700s at most

[jpinx]

I can trace my family back past 1000 bc but originally we came from the Nordic areas.

But there's a big difference in those at were immigrants 1000 years ago and those just arriving been given free housing benefits and health care at the expense of those here now and working. Some of the UKIP do look a bit odd though

You can trace your family tree back over 3000 years (probably close to 80 generations)? That is pretty incredible, do you have names for all the people in between? At a certain point (UK it was under 1000 years ago) they did not have last names so it makes it pretty difficult. About the only ones that I thought could do that were some Chinese. I only have one line that I can trace back about 1000 years - France (from Viking origin) who came to England (yes an immigrant) with William the Conqueror.... most of the rest of my lines only go back to maybe the early 1700s at most

It used to be said (about 50 years ago) that everyone in UK could trace their ancestry back to Henry VIII

[bkkcanuck8]

It used to be said (about 50 years ago) that everyone in UK could trace their ancestry back to Henry VIII

In Scotland it was Bonnie Prince Charlie (though not necessarily legitimate) ....

[jpinx]

It used to be said (about 50 years ago) that everyone in UK could trace their ancestry back to Henry VIII

In Scotland it was Bonnie Prince Charlie (though not necessarily legitimate) ....

Heh not many were

P.S. One has to remember that in older cultures geneology was matriarcal - not patriarcal

Edited November 8, 2014 by jpinx

[samran]

None of the people in Calais are EU citizens, this is why they are staying in Calais and attempting to illegally enter the UK.

The anti immigration mob love to muddy the waters with these two very different groups of people and lump them all in the same group.

People from within the EU generally go to the UK to work, the illegal immigrants will find it very hard to get any kind of work as it's not allowed (no tax id, big fines for employers of illegals, etc) so they go down the asylum route instead and claim as much money as they can as they're not allowed to work.

A new police force popped up out of nowhere a few years back just to chase illegal immigrants around and arrest them. The fines for small businesses who employ them are enough to bankrupt many of them.

The thing I find puzzling about this thread is the vitriol towards asylum seekers and that leaving he EU will help the situation.

Currently they camp out at Calais trying to get in. No doubt the French are doing their best as an EU counterpart to prevent onward movements to the UK as has been requested via EU forums.

So the UK leaves the EU, and the need to prevent asylum seekers entering and staying in the EU becomes less.

The French will be tempted to take the same position as the Mexicans do regarding Central America workers heading for the US. Offer them unhindered passage and no one to stop them leaving for the country. They leave France - and the EU, enter the UK and become 'someone else's problem'.

You'll be able to see the massive Gallic shrug clearly from Dover.

But I guess the little englanders have this one covered too...

Edited November 8, 2014 by samran

[Jay Sata]

7by7 ... You seem to enjoy winding people up.

13 and a half THOUSAND posts at about 8 a day for many years says it all. Do you have a life ? If someone does not have your point of view you have a go.

For example you childishly take the mick out of immigrants into Thailand objecting to immigration in their home countries. Not toooo bright an observation as nearly all here are temporary visa holders with no rights. No social security handouts .. no employment rights ... no rights to health services. We are means tested in a way constantly. No rights to bring our children in and be educated. We are NOT immigrants. We never will have any rights. We dont ask for anything apart from not being harmed.

So why giggle that we are immigrants complaining about immigrants .

I cant be bovvered to go into some of the other daft things you say.

My home town of about 70,000 has now 10,000 Polish people.. I suspect because a cheap airline flys into nearby from Poland.. In some parts of the country schools are 90 percent non English speaking. Bulgarian mafia a huge problem.

When Turkey get in we will be over run. When all eastern european countries get full rights we will loose more of our identity and be over run.

We managed to get low paid jobs done before this invasion started ...... strange now privatised and private sector employers seeking to maximise their own profits keep giving doom and gloom messages about we need low paid immigrants. Yeah right ... they are biased.

Most who dont like it like me would not whinge if the country had voted for it. We were not consulted. Actually we were promised a referendum if any more powers were given away ... but they did not give us one.

Just let us have a different view .. or is that beyond you ?

I suspect 7by7 is a Blairite and supporter of the Labour Party.

He certainly puts in the time to make his points and takes offence and throws the toys out of the pram if he is challenged.

The EU as a common market is a great idea but I have never seen a voting form where I have been asked to join a United States Of Europe and give away all our major decisions to some faceless committee in Brussels.

The truth is we fought for our freedom in 1939/45 just so we could make the decisions that need making now.

I am not anti immigrant and in fact support anyone from anywhere on the planet to be allowed in if they can prove they will make a contribution.

When I wanted to migrate to Australia in 1989 it took me and my family a year of financial,medical tests and point scoring before I was allowed access to 'Gods Country'.

We need the same in the UK and what is more important is we need a national vote where the population of the UK decide the way forward.

If that means we leave to EU then so be it.

How many on here agree we need to take back control of our country from the unelected civil servants across the English Channel?

Edited November 8, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Richard W]

Surely someone read the small print back in the 70's ?

Freedom of movement is valuable.

We were told we were joining a trading block. I.e no import duties from member countries etc etc. That what it was originally. No mention at all of open borders or a European Parliament being more powerful that our own.

Well, I read the booklets that voters got and I definitely remember the freedom of movement of labour. I also recall that the EEC was in principle open to all of democratic Europe.

Brezhnev kept the Bulgarians out and Ceaucescu did a good job with the Romanians.

It took 12 years and millions for the UK to get rid of Abu Hamza.

As he had become British, and the Egyptians stripped him of nationality first, we couldn't get rid of him, though we were getting round to keeping him in prison for his offences. He was 'got rid of' by the US extraditing him. However, I don't see what stops them returning him to the outskirts of Lakenheath when they get fed up of paying for his up-keep.

However, I get the feeling that governments (both Labour and Conservative) are now working towards being able to get rid of any of us they don't like.

[samran]

7by7 ... You seem to enjoy winding people up.

13 and a half THOUSAND posts at about 8 a day for many years says it all. Do you have a life ? If someone does not have your point of view you have a go.

For example you childishly take the mick out of immigrants into Thailand objecting to immigration in their home countries. Not toooo bright an observation as nearly all here are temporary visa holders with no rights. No social security handouts .. no employment rights ... no rights to health services. We are means tested in a way constantly. No rights to bring our children in and be educated. We are NOT immigrants. We never will have any rights. We dont ask for anything apart from not being harmed.

So why giggle that we are immigrants complaining about immigrants .

I cant be bovvered to go into some of the other daft things you say.

My home town of about 70,000 has now 10,000 Polish people.. I suspect because a cheap airline flys into nearby from Poland.. In some parts of the country schools are 90 percent non English speaking. Bulgarian mafia a huge problem.

When Turkey get in we will be over run. When all eastern european countries get full rights we will loose more of our identity and be over run.

We managed to get low paid jobs done before this invasion started ...... strange now privatised and private sector employers seeking to maximise their own profits keep giving doom and gloom messages about we need low paid immigrants. Yeah right ... they are biased.

Most who dont like it like me would not whinge if the country had voted for it. We were not consulted. Actually we were promised a referendum if any more powers were given away ... but they did not give us one.

Just let us have a different view .. or is that beyond you ?

I suspect 7by7 is a Blairite and supporter of the Labour Party.

He certainly puts in the time to make his points and takes offence and throws the toys out of the pram if he is challenged.

The EU as a common market is a great idea but I have never seen a voting form where I have been asked to join a United States Of Europe and give away all our major decisions to some faceless committee in Brussels.

The truth is we fought for our freedom in 1939/45 just so we could make the decisions that need making now.

I am not anti immigrant and in fact support anyone from anywhere on the planet to be allowed in if they can prove they will make a contribution.

When I wanted to migrate to Australia in 1989 it took me and my family a year of financial,medical tests and point scoring before I was allowed access to 'Gods Country'.

We need the same in the UK and what is more important is we need a national vote where the population of the UK decide the way forward.

If that means we leave to EU then so be it.

How many on here agree we need to take back control of our country from the unelected civil servants across the English Channel?

You did have the same system. It was called the highly skilled migrant permit. Look it up.

I migrated to the UK for a couple of years under the scheme.

You know what happened to the scheme? They dumped it a few years later due to the anti immigrant hysteria...

Don't get me started on the high court case that the governemt lost when they change the rules mid stream, leaving thousands forced to go home.