Retirement Visa/Extension for Elderly Mother

[KayCee]

My apologies for asking a question that I'm sure has been answered many times, but given all the recent changes, and the age of my mother-in-law and difficulties for her if we do it incorrectly, I was hoping to get some definitive guidance...

My mother-in-law is an 88 year old Japanese woman in good health. She has been staying with us for a month or two at a time (with a visit to another country for a few days in between the couple of times she was here longer than 30 days). But as she gets less able to travel independently, she is asking to come and stay with us for 6 months at a time, which we would be delighted to have her do.

My brother-in-law looked into this at the Thai embassy in Tokyo and was told she would need to apply for a retirement visa from there. This would require a slew of documents in English, including medical check from a public (not private) hospital, a certification that she has no criminal record (also in English), etc. - none of this being easy to accomplish in rural Japan, and making multiple trips, possibly overnight, into Tokyo to get all of this done would be difficult for her.

If that's the only way to do this, then perhaps my husband will fly there and help her do it over the course of a couple of weeks. But I had thought it might be possible to bring her here on a 90-day tourist visa, and then convert it to an OA visa after she's been here long enough to age her 800k THB int eh bank, etc. It would be much easier to help her with all these things from here, we thought. But is this possible? Or is the embassy in Tokyo corrrect that we need to start everything from there?

Thanks so much in advance for your guidance and advice!

[Jingthing]

The embassy is correct, that to get an O-A visa specifically an O-A visa that would need to be done in Japan for this lady.

But she does NOT need an O-A visa!

She can indeed start with an annual extension based on retirement done in Thailand. She's clearly old enough and you say financially qualified with the Thai bank account method.

Before applying for a retirement extension, some kind of O visa needs to be in her passport.

How to get?

In some home countries you can get an single entry O visa (90 day stay) for this purpose. Perhaps not Japan

So she can start with a tourist visa or entry stamp and then do a conversion to O in Thailand (showing the retirement qualification as the first step).

OR a single entry O can be obtained at Thai embassies/consulates in Malaysia, Laos, and possibly Cambodia

For the retirement extensions (no O-A) she will not be needing any medical report or police clearance form.

There is nothing "inferior" or second class of making the choice not to start with an O-A visa. It is just an option. I don't have statistics on this, but I'm sure a significant percentage of retired expats in Thailand who are on annual retirement extensions (and I guess probably a majority) NEVER got an O-A visa from their home country.

If choosing the CONVERSION option to O in Thailand, it is important to know the home location in Thailand. Not all Thai immigration offices do the conversion ... so if her local office does not, that conversion to O step would need to be done in Bangkok. For the retirement extension step, that MUST be done at the office local to her new home in Thailand.

Best of luck ...

Edited November 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[Mario2008]

She could come in on a tourist visa and change to a non-immigrant visa in Thailand itself. There is no need to season the money for a conversion, just that it comes from abroad and is in a bank acocount in her name.

She can ask for a non-O visa in japan based on being a dependent of her son, which doesn't require a medical or criminal record check, provided your husband is here in Thailand based on working and not a dependent himself. (And of course the embassy must be willing to issue for this reason, they might not be aware of this possibility).

[ubonjoe]

She should be able to get a single entry non-o if your husband is on an extension of stay to visit him. That would eliminate having to do the change of visa status from a tourist visa entry to a non immigrant visa to be able to do an extension of stay (not a visa) based upon retirement.

If your husband is on an extension of stay she could get an extension of stay as his dependent with no financial proof needed. But she would have to have the non-o first since there is no change of visa status for this extension possible.

For the extension based upon retirement she would need 800k baht in the bank for 60 days or proof of 65k baht income or a combination of the two totaling 800k baht.

[KayCee]

This is sounding very encouraging. Thank you so much. So a little more detail.

Both her son (my husband) and I are here on a Non-o with yearly extensions. But the way we did it was not for the purpose of retirement (though we're both over 50). Instead, since our kids are studying at ISB, we got them Non-Os for the purposes of education, and we got ours as their guardian (or caretaker). We both have a non-O on our own, and both have the required 500k THB in our own individual accounts in the bank here, so in those circumstances, would she be able to come as his dependent? Of course this is depending on whether the embassy in Japan issues Non-Os.

Our immigration office is in Nonthaburi. Does that office do the conversion to Non-O? If not, we could still use the office on Chaengwattana to do the conversion to Non-O without having to leave the country, and then do the extension at our own office in Nonthaburi once we've had her 800k in her name in the bank account here for 60 days?

thanks so much again!

[ubonjoe]

She should be able to get the single entry non-o to visit family, All of your families extensions can qualify her for that.

It might be best to check with the honorary consulate in Nagoya. The may be more flexible about doing the visa. They may even do it for being 50 or over. http://www.nagoya-thaiconsulate.jp/

Your husbands extension does not allow for a dependent to get an extension based upon it.

She will have to do the retirement extension.

If need be she can do the change of visa status at CW immigration and then the extension at the local office.

[KayCee]

Thanks so much UbonJoe and others. This gives us a lot to go on to get this rolling and get her here the easiest way without too much stress and exhaustion for her (or us!). Appreciate it very much!

[KayCee]

We took my Mother-in-law to CW Immigration today to try to convert her 60 day tourist visa to a non-immigrant O. We thought we understood that this was the first step, and that then we would have to set up a bank account for her, and, before the end of the 90 day non-immigr O, we would then go and do the retirement 1 year extension at our local office in Nonthaburi.

We hit a snag however - and perhaps I just misunderstood the process, since we we got our non-imm. Os from the US before coming here, we didn't have to have any funds in the bank in Thailand first - we did that after arriving, and before requesting the extension of stay.

After waiting a couple of hours - not easy on an 88 year old - we were told that it was not possible to convert her visa from tourist to non-immigrant O because she hadn't yet opened the bank account or had the proof of income, etc., met. We said we thought you converted the visa first, adn that it could be hard to get a bank account on a tourist visa. The immigration officer said Bangkok Bank right downstairs in Government Complex would be happy to open that account on a tourist visa, and that they could not do any conversion of the visa until we had done that. She also said though, that they could do the conversion and the extension of stay in one appointment once we have the money deposited. And that it doesn't have to be aged (which I thought it did?).

I'm newly confused. Can anyone confirm if what we're being told is correct, because I don't want to bring her back for another few hours at Nonthaburi immigration (hope they can do the conversion!, but have to use them for the extension and reentry permits) and then find out we're screwed because the money hasn't aged for 60 days (which would be hard to do given she only has a 60 day tourist visa which has already started running by a few days.

thanks so much for any help!

[ubonjoe]

It is a requirement that the 800k baht is in the bank on the date of application for the non immigrant visa. She will need a letter from the bank confirming the balance and that it came from abroad.

I think there may of been a misunderstanding about them doing it all at one time without the money being in the bank for 60 days.

She has to do the conversion at CW and then the extension at Nonthaburi. Nonthaburi cannot do the conversion.

She will need at least 15 days remaining on her tourist visa entry or the 30 day extension of it.

The money has to be in the bank for 60 days when she does the extension.

[wpcoe]

The immigration officer said Bangkok Bank right downstairs in Government Complex would be happy to open that account on a tourist visa, and that they could not do any conversion of the visa until we had done that. She also said though, that they could do the conversion and the extension of stay in one appointment once we have the money deposited. And that it doesn't have to be aged (which I thought it did?).

This is a guess, but maybe they were offering to waive the return visit to pick up the Non-Immigrant O, and there was a misunderstanding about what they were waiving? From other posts I've read that Chaeng Wattana normal procedure is to have you apply for the conversion Non-Immigrant O and then return in 15 days (two weeks?) to actually get the visa. Maybe for some reason they were letting you skip that return visit in 15 days?

*If* that is so, then you would still need to season the money in the bank and return in the last 30 (45?) days of the Non-Immigrant O visa to apply for the retirement extension.

[KayCee]

Thank you UbonJoe. We will get right on this then. Interestingly though, we asked twice, but the immigration officer at C-W insisted the 60 days was not necessary, and we could even go right downstairs and open the account and get the letter that very day, and then come back. I think we won't risk it, given we have two more visits ahead of us, and she finds these things quite tiring.

Really appreciate the advice!

[partington]

Thank you UbonJoe. We will get right on this then. Interestingly though, we asked twice, but the immigration officer at C-W insisted the 60 days was not necessary, and we could even go right downstairs and open the account and get the letter that very day, and then come back. I think we won't risk it, given we have two more visits ahead of us, and she finds these things quite tiring.

Really appreciate the advice!

I think the immigration officer was likely confusing two things:

1. the conversion from the 60-day tourist visa to a non-Imm O visa : as wpcoe suggests above, it is this step which the immigration officer was telling you could be done on the same day, providing you have the 800, 000 baht in the bank. This 800, 000 baht does not have to be seasoned for 60-days merely to do the conversion from 60 day tourist to 90 day non-Imm O.

As soon as the conversion is done the non-Imm O will be stamped "used". At this point the person does not have a valid visa (a visa is permission to enter the country), since it is stamped "used", and the person is already in the country. The person has been given permission to stay for another 90 days by being given this visa.

2. the application for the extension of the period the holder has been permitted to stay on this now used up non-Imm O visa, from 90 days to an extra 365 days, on the grounds of retirement. This is NOT a conversion of a visa, it is asking them to let the person stay an an extra 365 days, on the visa "entry" you got from the conversion to a non-Imm O. This is the step that needs the money to be seasoned for 60 days, and it is applied for in the last 30 days of the new 90 days permission to stay given on the non-Imm O you converted to and was instantly stamped "used." So this is what gives you the time to season the money.

For every application you make after this for a further 365 days extra permission to stay, you are simply applying for permission to stay longer. You are not converting a visa, and indeed you have no current valid visa to convert. Your non-Imm O visa was used and became invalid as soon as the conversion from a 60 day tourist visa was granted.

Edited January 24, 2015 by partington