Maximum Bodily Injury or Death in Car Accident Available in Thailand

[dannywla]

I am close to renewing my auto insurance policy and since I also just purchased a condo in Pattaya, where you have drivers and motorcycles driving like in Vietnam. I wanted to know on a 2010 Mazda 3 Sport, I cannot find a first class policy that pays more than 2,000,000 baht /each person with Max of 10,000,000.00.

Does anyone know who can pay no less than 5,000,000.00 baht in the event of the death of each person. As that limit is the equivalent of $65K seems quite low. If I was a poor working Thai citizen, it would be adequate, but being a high net worth American, I would want the highest limit available in Thailand, to insure our safety and or freedom in worst case scenario.

Any insight or replys are most greatly appreciated.

[KittenKong]

My broker told me that most of these different levels of cover could be increased by paying a higher premium. I was particularly interested in the insured value of the vehicle, and I deliberately reduced some of the other cover to reduce the premium (for example by taking higher excess and named driver cover only), but maybe you should ask your broker?

Personally I would rather pay less and have no driver death cover as I will already be worth more than enough when I'm dead, and there's no one I really want to leave it to anyway. Injury cover is another matter.

Your other option is just to buy 5MB of life insurance separately.

[dannywla]

Your misunderstood my question. I want protection in the event my auto kills another person, not interested in my personal life insurance which is far greater than 25 million baht. I wanted to insure that if my vehicle is struck or strikes another person that I would have coverage of no less than 5 million baht.

Farang would have big problems in the event they are under insured. I would rather spend more on my premium to insure that we have highest limits available for hi society Thai and Farangs. What limits can one attained ? 2,000,000 baht with 10,000,000 seems low to me, so wanted something like 5-10 million limit on death of another in the event my car is in a accident.

Sorry if you misunderstand my concerns.. Any feedback is appreciated greatly.

[KittenKong]

Your misunderstood my question. I want protection in the event my auto kills another person, not interested in my personal life insurance which is far greater than 25 million baht. I wanted to insure that if my vehicle is struck or strikes another person that I would have coverage of no less than 5 million baht.

Farang would have big problems in the event they are under insured. I would rather spend more on my premium to insure that we have highest limits available for hi society Thai and Farangs. What limits can one attained ? 2,000,000 baht with 10,000,000 seems low to me, so wanted something like 5-10 million limit on death of another in the event my car is in a accident.

Yes, I got the wrong end of the stick, sorry.

I see your point. But as all policies seem to come with about 1 or 2MB cover, presumably that is considered to be enough by Thai standards? Otherwise there would probably be many court cases for extra compensation.

Either way, if it worries you then you should ask the broker if it can be increased. I expect it can be, for a price. I also expect the broker would know whether claims for extra compensation are common or even permissible.

[PacificCrossInsurance]

An option you may like to consider is to purchase a stand-alone Personal Accident policy which would be separate to and additional to any PA cover that may be attached to a vehicle insurance policy.

Pacific Cross Health Insurance has stand-alone Personal Accident plans with total death and disability cover up to 5 million baht. Such a policy would be separate entirely from your motor insurance policy but would cover accidental death and injury from an accident of any cause, not just related to a vehicle accident.

The Personal Accident plans are available to people whose employment classification is 'Class 1' which covers most indoor business and professional occupations plus students, housewives, and retired people where those jobs don't involve the operation of machinery, mainly outdoor jobs like construction, farm work etc or high risk occupations like helicopter pilot, paratrooper, drug smuggler or Sukhumvit Rd jaywalker.

There are two plans with the more comprehensive of the two termed the 'Executive' plan and that offers 4 options of death/disability cover at 1, 2, 3 and 5 million baht. The additional benefits are proportional to those death/permanent disability figures so based on the 5 million baht option the maximum coverage for murder/assault is 2.5 m baht; maximum cover if injured/killed riding/driving a motorcycle 1.0 m baht; medical expenses relating to each accident 150,000 baht; broken bones, burns and internal injuries 250,000 baht; and dental treatment as a result of an accident 80,000 baht.

There are no medical questions or examinations and the plan is available from age 25-75 (the lower end plan is available from age 18). If you are between 25-60 the annual premiums for this cover is 4,459 (1 million baht option), 6,299 (2 million baht option), 9,399 (3 million baht option) and 14,999 (5 million baht option). The premiums are more expensive over age 60.

You can obtain this from your local Thai based insurance broker (offshore brokers are not allowed to sell products from Thai registered insurers) or from Pacific Cross Health Insurance directly - Get a Quote - Download the Brochure and Application Form

I hope this gives you another option that may be worth considering.

[PacificCrossInsurance]

An option you may like to consider is to purchase a stand-alone Personal Accident policy which would be separate to and additional to any PA cover that may be attached to a vehicle insurance policy.

Pacific Cross Health Insurance has stand-alone Personal Accident plans with total death and disability cover up to 5 million baht. Such a policy would be separate entirely from your motor insurance policy but would cover accidental death and injury from an accident of any cause, not just related to a vehicle accident.

The Personal Accident plans are available to people whose employment classification is 'Class 1' which covers most indoor business and professional occupations plus students, housewives, and retired people where those jobs don't involve the operation of machinery, mainly outdoor jobs like construction, farm work etc or high risk occupations like helicopter pilot, paratrooper, drug smuggler or Sukhumvit Rd jaywalker.

There are two plans with the more comprehensive of the two termed the 'Executive' plan and that offers 4 options of death/disability cover at 1, 2, 3 and 5 million baht. The additional benefits are proportional to those death/permanent disability figures so based on the 5 million baht option the maximum coverage for murder/assault is 2.5 m baht; maximum cover if injured/killed riding/driving a motorcycle 1.0 m baht; medical expenses relating to each accident 150,000 baht; broken bones, burns and internal injuries 250,000 baht; and dental treatment as a result of an accident 80,000 baht.

There are no medical questions or examinations and the plan is available from age 25-75 (the lower end plan is available from age 18). If you are between 25-60 the annual premiums for this cover is 4,459 (1 million baht option), 6,299 (2 million baht option), 9,399 (3 million baht option) and 14,999 (5 million baht option). The premiums are more expensive over age 60.

You can obtain this from your local Thai based insurance broker (offshore brokers are not allowed to sell products from Thai registered insurers) or from Pacific Cross Health Insurance directly - Get a Quote - Download the Brochure and Application Form

I hope this gives you another option that may be worth considering.

Sorry I have also got the wrong end of the stick thinking you were looking for cover for yourself, not injury to third party - so this information doesn't answer your issue at all - apologies.

[dannywla]

Thanks for taking a shot at that question. Can I purchase a umbrella policy in the event the motorbike and or cause bodily damage to a third party? Which would Included individuals whom have my permitted use too drive those my vehicles and have either a IDP or Thai license!

[Mike45]

Thanks for taking a shot at that question. Can I purchase a umbrella policy in the event the motorbike and or cause bodily damage to a third party? Which would Included individuals whom have my permitted use too drive those my vehicles and have either a IDP or Thai license!

I recently was trying to get the higher coverage you are describing. I even got the LMG broker to write it up for 5M but the main office refused to issue it for more than 2M.

I also tried to get an umbrella policy from my broker in the USA. They told me it wouldn't apply.

Good luck with your search and if your successful please post about it here.

[NanLaew]

The general consensus among Thai insurance companies that the current levels of coverage are adequate probably stems from the considerable losses Thai insurance companies have to write-off on a large percentage of claims.

I base this on my wife's recent experience where she (at no fault) was involved in a collision with an unregistered, uninsured motorcycle with a couple of underage, thus unlicensed and also uninsured people riding on it. Thai on Thai (thankfully). They suffered quite serious but ultimately not life-threatening or life-changing injuries whereas the wife's car had about 25,000 baht's worth of damage (independent assessment) and no injuries. Despite having First Class coverage with the insurers paying in full for my wife's repairs, maintaining her NCB for next year and paying almost the maximum permitted per the insurance policy for injured parties, they also had to address claims for more compensation from the family of the injured. This payment had to be debated and agreed the 'old fashioned way' at the police station before the police would sign off on the incident. My understanding is that once the police were involved, the insurers can't just legally pay what they want to until the police agree and sign off. In my wife's case, there was someone in the injured parties family who had given the police an 'incentive' to delay their decision on who was to blame.

It appears that Thailand hasn't fully progressed from the totally lawless situation of about 20 years ago when nobody had insurance (not even government mandatory insurance) and any and all 'claims' were handled by the police; plus their own cut from whatever amount they deemed was due. My wife's insurers were apologetic and ultimately frustrated that the 'Thai way' where the larger of the vehicles involved must always be to blame still prevails. I recall the father of the injured being quite upset when he wanted to buy insurance for his injured daughters, only to be told that it couldn't be back-dated.

If the insurance industry matures here, I suspect that better, higher coverage will become an option. However, that can't happen until the old 'Thai way' mindset is legislated against and the police do their jobs properly. Don't hold your breath.

For the OP, I would seriously doubt that the hi-so locals in premium or imported motors bother with much more than the bare minimum coverage on ANYTHING in their policy... if they even have one. I would wager that they, like most Thai's subscribe to the notion of not paying any extra for something that may not happen. Better to take the car to the temple and get some gold leaf, lustral water and a blessing from a monk which AFAIK are still done for free.

Drive carefully.

[Mike45]

The general consensus among Thai insurance companies that the current levels of coverage are adequate probably stems from the considerable losses Thai insurance companies have to write-off on a large percentage of claims.

I base this on my wife's recent experience where she (at no fault) was involved in a collision with an unregistered, uninsured motorcycle with a couple of underage, thus unlicensed and also uninsured people riding on it. Thai on Thai (thankfully). They suffered quite serious but ultimately not life-threatening or life-changing injuries whereas the wife's car had about 25,000 baht's worth of damage (independent assessment) and no injuries. Despite having First Class coverage with the insurers paying in full for my wife's repairs, maintaining her NCB for next year and paying almost the maximum permitted per the insurance policy for injured parties, they also had to address claims for more compensation from the family of the injured. This payment had to be debated and agreed the 'old fashioned way' at the police station before the police would sign off on the incident. My understanding is that once the police were involved, the insurers can't just legally pay what they want to until the police agree and sign off. In my wife's case, there was someone in the injured parties family who had given the police an 'incentive' to delay their decision on who was to blame.

It appears that Thailand hasn't fully progressed from the totally lawless situation of about 20 years ago when nobody had insurance (not even government mandatory insurance) and any and all 'claims' were handled by the police; plus their own cut from whatever amount they deemed was due. My wife's insurers were apologetic and ultimately frustrated that the 'Thai way' where the larger of the vehicles involved must always be to blame still prevails. I recall the father of the injured being quite upset when he wanted to buy insurance for his injured daughters, only to be told that it couldn't be back-dated.

If the insurance industry matures here, I suspect that better, higher coverage will become an option. However, that can't happen until the old 'Thai way' mindset is legislated against and the police do their jobs properly. Don't hold your breath.

For the OP, I would seriously doubt that the hi-so locals in premium or imported motors bother with much more than the bare minimum coverage on ANYTHING in their policy... if they even have one. I would wager that they, like most Thai's subscribe to the notion of not paying any extra for something that may not happen. Better to take the car to the temple and get some gold leaf, lustral water and a blessing from a monk which AFAIK are still done for free.

Drive carefully.

Are you suggesting that your insurance paid out the full 3rd party insurance, 1 or 2 million, and you still had to pay out of your pocket?

[NanLaew]

The general consensus among Thai insurance companies that the current levels of coverage are adequate probably stems from the considerable losses Thai insurance companies have to write-off on a large percentage of claims.

I base this on my wife's recent experience where she (at no fault) was involved in a collision with an unregistered, uninsured motorcycle with a couple of underage, thus unlicensed and also uninsured people riding on it. Thai on Thai (thankfully). They suffered quite serious but ultimately not life-threatening or life-changing injuries whereas the wife's car had about 25,000 baht's worth of damage (independent assessment) and no injuries. Despite having First Class coverage with the insurers paying in full for my wife's repairs, maintaining her NCB for next year and paying almost the maximum permitted per the insurance policy for injured parties, they also had to address claims for more compensation from the family of the injured. This payment had to be debated and agreed the 'old fashioned way' at the police station before the police would sign off on the incident. My understanding is that once the police were involved, the insurers can't just legally pay what they want to until the police agree and sign off. In my wife's case, there was someone in the injured parties family who had given the police an 'incentive' to delay their decision on who was to blame.

It appears that Thailand hasn't fully progressed from the totally lawless situation of about 20 years ago when nobody had insurance (not even government mandatory insurance) and any and all 'claims' were handled by the police; plus their own cut from whatever amount they deemed was due. My wife's insurers were apologetic and ultimately frustrated that the 'Thai way' where the larger of the vehicles involved must always be to blame still prevails. I recall the father of the injured being quite upset when he wanted to buy insurance for his injured daughters, only to be told that it couldn't be back-dated.

If the insurance industry matures here, I suspect that better, higher coverage will become an option. However, that can't happen until the old 'Thai way' mindset is legislated against and the police do their jobs properly. Don't hold your breath.

For the OP, I would seriously doubt that the hi-so locals in premium or imported motors bother with much more than the bare minimum coverage on ANYTHING in their policy... if they even have one. I would wager that they, like most Thai's subscribe to the notion of not paying any extra for something that may not happen. Better to take the car to the temple and get some gold leaf, lustral water and a blessing from a monk which AFAIK are still done for free.

Drive carefully.

Are you suggesting that your insurance paid out the full 3rd party insurance, 1 or 2 million, and you still had to pay out of your pocket?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. My wife did not have to pay anything and her premiums will not increase (we have that in writing too).

The insurance company was forced to pay on top of what the insurance policy stated as maximum for injured persons but not the 1 or 2 million maximum that they would pay if anyone died. The police did their best to get their pound of flesh and only signed off on the whole incident when the insurance company made an additional, one-time cash offer that the injured parties accepted. The injured parties were spoiling for long-term 'support' suggesting that the injured parties may never walk again and other such rubbish. It was a money grab based on the old cultural premise of feeling sorry for the poorer, smaller 'victim', song-sahn, krieng-jai and all that other sh!te they come up with when it is convenient for them. It had as much to do with caring for the injured as it did learning from their mistakes, ie. it's not going to happen.

There were no witnesses to the accident. However, the police insisted that my wife was 'wrong' although they had absolutely no evidence that would support their claim. As long the case was open on the police books, the insurance company could not sign-off and pay what was the industry recognized compensation. Even though the kids on the motorbike and their parents were 101% wrong in the eyes of Thai law and conventional wisdom, that doesn't count for much here.

If you have a fender bender or even an injured party accident with another insured motorist, the insurance claim process will be similar to what you would experience at home. However, if you have an injury accident with totally illegal and uninsured parties and the police are involved, all bets are off.

[Thailaw]

The maximum liability amounts available where the accident is your fault that apply to third parties in "1st class" (using that term too broadly, I think) policies seem to be B2 million per person/B10 million per accident. This may seem inadequate, but it probably will cover in almost all cases the liability in Thailand, given generally lower costs of medical service here. But, the own cover, which would apply to the driver and the persons in insured car are typically B100,000 (US$3,000) and impossible to find above (B300,000). In my view, these amounts are grossly inadequate even in Thailand and are a serious problem. I recently renewed my auto insurance, and wanted to raise these limits (having accepted the B2 million third party loss cover as "adequate", and wanting the same level of cover for anyone/everyone involved in an accident with my car), and was told by the broker that it simply is not available, full stop. And the disparity between the B2 million 3rd party cover and the B100,000 to B300,000 own loss cover is mind boggling. There is simply no justification for it. He suggested getting medical insurance cover for my family with a high deductible which would apply in the event of any of them being involved in a car accident with my car. This "works" for my family, albeit at an additional premium. But if someone other than an immediate family member is riding in my car and does not have insurance and there is an accident that is the fault of the driver of my car (or the other driver has no insurance), their medical expenses would be the driver's/my liability and would be inadequately covered. I have found no solution to this problem.

[NanLaew]

The maximum liability amounts available where the accident is your fault that apply to third parties in "1st class" (using that term too broadly, I think) policies seem to be B2 million per person/B10 million per accident. This may seem inadequate, but it probably will cover in almost all cases the liability in Thailand, given generally lower costs of medical service here. But, the own cover, which would apply to the driver and the persons in insured car are typically B100,000 (US$3,000) and impossible to find above (B300,000). In my view, these amounts are grossly inadequate even in Thailand and are a serious problem. I recently renewed my auto insurance, and wanted to raise these limits (having accepted the B2 million third party loss cover as "adequate", and wanting the same level of cover for anyone/everyone involved in an accident with my car), and was told by the broker that it simply is not available, full stop. And the disparity between the B2 million 3rd party cover and the B100,000 to B300,000 own loss cover is mind boggling. There is simply no justification for it. He suggested getting medical insurance cover for my family with a high deductible which would apply in the event of any of them being involved in a car accident with my car. This "works" for my family, albeit at an additional premium. But if someone other than an immediate family member is riding in my car and does not have insurance and there is an accident that is the fault of the driver of my car (or the other driver has no insurance), their medical expenses would be the driver's/my liability and would be inadequately covered. I have found no solution to this problem.

I agree, the disparity is huge and the options to address it do not exist.

Regarding there being no justification for it; in the context of my posts relating to my wife's recent accident, her insurers are taking a substantial loss on her policy. Assuming that the greater amount of accident claims involve unrecoverable claims against or payment to uninsured parties, the insurance companies aren't making much profit. Therefore the maximum coverage that they offer may be inadequate for those responsible enough to seek such insurance but they may be more than adequate for the insurance companies bottom line.

[stevenl]

The general consensus among Thai insurance companies that the current levels of coverage are adequate probably stems from the considerable losses Thai insurance companies have to write-off on a large percentage of claims.

I base this on my wife's recent experience where she (at no fault) was involved in a collision with an unregistered, uninsured motorcycle with a couple of underage, thus unlicensed and also uninsured people riding on it. Thai on Thai (thankfully). They suffered quite serious but ultimately not life-threatening or life-changing injuries whereas the wife's car had about 25,000 baht's worth of damage (independent assessment) and no injuries. Despite having First Class coverage with the insurers paying in full for my wife's repairs, maintaining her NCB for next year and paying almost the maximum permitted per the insurance policy for injured parties, they also had to address claims for more compensation from the family of the injured. This payment had to be debated and agreed the 'old fashioned way' at the police station before the police would sign off on the incident. My understanding is that once the police were involved, the insurers can't just legally pay what they want to until the police agree and sign off. In my wife's case, there was someone in the injured parties family who had given the police an 'incentive' to delay their decision on who was to blame.

It appears that Thailand hasn't fully progressed from the totally lawless situation of about 20 years ago when nobody had insurance (not even government mandatory insurance) and any and all 'claims' were handled by the police; plus their own cut from whatever amount they deemed was due. My wife's insurers were apologetic and ultimately frustrated that the 'Thai way' where the larger of the vehicles involved must always be to blame still prevails. I recall the father of the injured being quite upset when he wanted to buy insurance for his injured daughters, only to be told that it couldn't be back-dated.

If the insurance industry matures here, I suspect that better, higher coverage will become an option. However, that can't happen until the old 'Thai way' mindset is legislated against and the police do their jobs properly. Don't hold your breath.

For the OP, I would seriously doubt that the hi-so locals in premium or imported motors bother with much more than the bare minimum coverage on ANYTHING in their policy... if they even have one. I would wager that they, like most Thai's subscribe to the notion of not paying any extra for something that may not happen. Better to take the car to the temple and get some gold leaf, lustral water and a blessing from a monk which AFAIK are still done for free.

Drive carefully.

Are you suggesting that your insurance paid out the full 3rd party insurance, 1 or 2 million, and you still had to pay out of your pocket?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. My wife did not have to pay anything and her premiums will not increase (we have that in writing too).

The insurance company was forced to pay on top of what the insurance policy stated as maximum for injured persons but not the 1 or 2 million maximum that they would pay if anyone died. The police did their best to get their pound of flesh and only signed off on the whole incident when the insurance company made an additional, one-time cash offer that the injured parties accepted. The injured parties were spoiling for long-term 'support' suggesting that the injured parties may never walk again and other such rubbish. It was a money grab based on the old cultural premise of feeling sorry for the poorer, smaller 'victim', song-sahn, krieng-jai and all that other sh!te they come up with when it is convenient for them. It had as much to do with caring for the injured as it did learning from their mistakes, ie. it's not going to happen.

There were no witnesses to the accident. However, the police insisted that my wife was 'wrong' although they had absolutely no evidence that would support their claim. As long the case was open on the police books, the insurance company could not sign-off and pay what was the industry recognized compensation. Even though the kids on the motorbike and their parents were 101% wrong in the eyes of Thai law and conventional wisdom, that doesn't count for much here.

If you have a fender bender or even an injured party accident with another insured motorist, the insurance claim process will be similar to what you would experience at home. However, if you have an injury accident with totally illegal and uninsured parties and the police are involved, all bets are off.

You say she was not at fault, the police decided otherwise.

So statements like 'Even though the kids on the motorbike and their parents were 101% wrong in the eyes of Thai law and conventional wisdom, that doesn't count for much here.' really have no value at all, since she was wrong in the eyes of the law (see the police statement). If you/she or the insurance company would not agree with the police assessment you're free to not accept the deal as proposed by the police and go to court.

[NanLaew]

The general consensus among Thai insurance companies that the current levels of coverage are adequate probably stems from the considerable losses Thai insurance companies have to write-off on a large percentage of claims.

I base this on my wife's recent experience where she (at no fault) was involved in a collision with an unregistered, uninsured motorcycle with a couple of underage, thus unlicensed and also uninsured people riding on it. Thai on Thai (thankfully). They suffered quite serious but ultimately not life-threatening or life-changing injuries whereas the wife's car had about 25,000 baht's worth of damage (independent assessment) and no injuries. Despite having First Class coverage with the insurers paying in full for my wife's repairs, maintaining her NCB for next year and paying almost the maximum permitted per the insurance policy for injured parties, they also had to address claims for more compensation from the family of the injured. This payment had to be debated and agreed the 'old fashioned way' at the police station before the police would sign off on the incident. My understanding is that once the police were involved, the insurers can't just legally pay what they want to until the police agree and sign off. In my wife's case, there was someone in the injured parties family who had given the police an 'incentive' to delay their decision on who was to blame.

It appears that Thailand hasn't fully progressed from the totally lawless situation of about 20 years ago when nobody had insurance (not even government mandatory insurance) and any and all 'claims' were handled by the police; plus their own cut from whatever amount they deemed was due. My wife's insurers were apologetic and ultimately frustrated that the 'Thai way' where the larger of the vehicles involved must always be to blame still prevails. I recall the father of the injured being quite upset when he wanted to buy insurance for his injured daughters, only to be told that it couldn't be back-dated.

If the insurance industry matures here, I suspect that better, higher coverage will become an option. However, that can't happen until the old 'Thai way' mindset is legislated against and the police do their jobs properly. Don't hold your breath.

For the OP, I would seriously doubt that the hi-so locals in premium or imported motors bother with much more than the bare minimum coverage on ANYTHING in their policy... if they even have one. I would wager that they, like most Thai's subscribe to the notion of not paying any extra for something that may not happen. Better to take the car to the temple and get some gold leaf, lustral water and a blessing from a monk which AFAIK are still done for free.

Drive carefully.

Are you suggesting that your insurance paid out the full 3rd party insurance, 1 or 2 million, and you still had to pay out of your pocket?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. My wife did not have to pay anything and her premiums will not increase (we have that in writing too).

The insurance company was forced to pay on top of what the insurance policy stated as maximum for injured persons but not the 1 or 2 million maximum that they would pay if anyone died. The police did their best to get their pound of flesh and only signed off on the whole incident when the insurance company made an additional, one-time cash offer that the injured parties accepted. The injured parties were spoiling for long-term 'support' suggesting that the injured parties may never walk again and other such rubbish. It was a money grab based on the old cultural premise of feeling sorry for the poorer, smaller 'victim', song-sahn, krieng-jai and all that other sh!te they come up with when it is convenient for them. It had as much to do with caring for the injured as it did learning from their mistakes, ie. it's not going to happen.

There were no witnesses to the accident. However, the police insisted that my wife was 'wrong' although they had absolutely no evidence that would support their claim. As long the case was open on the police books, the insurance company could not sign-off and pay what was the industry recognized compensation. Even though the kids on the motorbike and their parents were 101% wrong in the eyes of Thai law and conventional wisdom, that doesn't count for much here.

If you have a fender bender or even an injured party accident with another insured motorist, the insurance claim process will be similar to what you would experience at home. However, if you have an injury accident with totally illegal and uninsured parties and the police are involved, all bets are off.

You say she was not at fault, the police decided otherwise.

So statements like 'Even though the kids on the motorbike and their parents were 101% wrong in the eyes of Thai law and conventional wisdom, that doesn't count for much here.' really have no value at all, since she was wrong in the eyes of the law (see the police statement). If you/she or the insurance company would not agree with the police assessment you're free to not accept the deal as proposed by the police and go to court.

Sorry if once again I was not clear.

I did not and have not said she was at fault or otherwise. I wasn't even a witness. I arrived at the scene about 45 minutes after the fact at which time most of the police themselves had left, with the instruction to come to the police station once her insurance agents had arrived (they were late). At the time the agent arrived, there was just myself and my wife with her badly dented car. No police, no witnesses, nada.

Yes, the "police decided otherwise" inasmuch as they merely reiterated verbally that she was 'wrong'. The police accident report does not allay any blame; the insurers gave the wife a translation that I requested so that I was clear on what I suspected was happening. She was not charged and there was never a hint of her being charged because they had absolutely no proof that she may have been wrong. She has a valid license and had current first class insurance in addition to the legally required minimum coverage. She was given back her license and allowed to drive the car back home that night.

I stated that there were no witnesses. The insurance company spent a few days securing cctv from shops and stores at the scene, not the police. The insurance company did this in an effort to mitigate their liabilities inasmuch that it could prove that my wife was at fault. The police didn't investigate beyond attending the scene of the accident and taking names and numbers. They tried intimidation over the phone once then they gave the claimants my wife's mobile phone number so they could harass and pressure her too. Luckily, the insurance company were behind her all the way and suggested that it would take time. The claimants wanted money, big money and they wanted it now.

After 3 weeks, my wife was dealing primarily with two people, the local insurance agent and the VP of the insurance company claims department in Bangkok. Their recommendation at all times was not to fear the police and claimants intimidation although at times it was quite vicious. When I sought independent counsel on behalf of my wife, I was advised that I should let the insurers lawyers handle it. When I advised the insurers that I had sought legal counsel, they said that we did not need to as their legal department was fully aware of what was happening already and were better prepared for any eventualities. The case for compensation was between the insurance company and the claimants. My wife (and I) had absolutely NO say in the meetings and negotiations but the police dutifully insisted that she attend each pointless meeting at the police station, because they said she was 'wrong' (part of their intimidation game).

In the end, the insurance company made a cash payment in addition to directly covering the accident and emergency and recuperative hospital charges for both injured persons. My wife and I didn't have a dog in the fight in deciding that. Regarding if it's morally right or wrong to pay stupid people for their bad judgement which is how my wife perceives the insurance companies actions, the insurance company has to deal with that but I am sure they aren't losing sleep over it. The insurance company saw there was absolutely no quick way forward when the claimants claimed that they had their own lawyer and trotted out a name associated with one of the local charities for fallen women. That's how stupid and desperate these 'victims' were for their sudden get rich quick scheme to handover the cash. The hospital was going to be paid direct. There was no money passing through their hands.

Two young girls are lucky to be alive that night. My wife is still troubled by the whole experience. The point I wish people to take from her recent experience is that even having A1, top-flight, gold-standard, first class insurance (or whatever you want to call it) insurance, it isn't all cut and dried when you have the misfortune of having an accident with someone that is less than compliant with the legal requirements and in cultural perspectives, is poorer, smaller and more disadvantaged than you are.

I only intend to reiterate my belief that overheads are so high here, the automobile insurance in Thailand is structured to make money AND fit the existing cultural mores, lack of law enforcement and subsequent disregard of the law.

[dannywla]

I really appreciate the clearly written summary of how things play out in Thailand. More importantly how it works with respect to the police, insurance and the parties involved. I really want to thank you for sharing this stressful event in very clear English. Are you and your wife both Thai?

[NanLaew]

I really appreciate the clearly written summary of how things play out in Thailand. More importantly how it works with respect to the police, insurance and the parties involved. I really want to thank you for sharing this stressful event in very clear English. Are you and your wife both Thai?

Please don't take my wife's recent experience as how most similar type accidents will be handled. There are too may variables and imponderables in pretty much all things legal or regulatory in this country. One is always very much at the risk of the krieng jai ( เกรงใจ ) card being played which enables obfuscation, lies and misunderstanding at the low-end of the scale and fraud, law breaking and corruption at the top-end.

If you have a no injury fender-bender with another insured motorist, the police will be totally uninterested. If someone is injured, it can be understandably more problematic but mostly manageable. When there's uninsured and worse, uninsured injured involved, then it gets messy. If someone had died that night, it would have played out completely differently and doesn't bear thinking about.

My wife is Thai and has been a licensed driver for about 10 years. I am Scottish and have lived or worked in Thailand for the best part of 28 years with time off in the middle for good behaviour!