Got Scammed - Be Carefull

[ryanhull]

Hey All,

I recently went to the cash machine in the mall here in Mahasarakham to draw out 2 x 25,000 bhat for rent, bills etc. The cach machine was inside the mall attached to a bank with security guards usually stood right next to it.

Anyway I didn't think much of it until I checked my bank today and found another 60,000 bhat had been taken out in various transactions in the same mall, I actually noticed I was a 1000 pound down from what I thought my balance was. I immediately called Natwest and they said it looked like my card had been cloned as the further transactions had not used the chip and pin and just the magnetic strip, luckily Natwest have returned the money to my account pretty much no questions asked.

I always cover the keypad and usually run my hand across the card slot to see if I can pull anything off it like a skimming device but I cannot remember if I did this time or not.

Anyway the reason I am telling you guys is to tell you all to be careful at any cash machine even those you might think are safe and hopefully stop this happening to one of you guys, always check your statement too for anything not right.

Cheers

[Thaddeus]

Thanks... that is really good advice.

[Thaddeus]

delete.

Give it another thirty minutes and I bet you wouldn't have deleted it

I was on the edge myself, something about eggs and grandmothers and plastic cards.

[ATF]

More Digital Pikery!

[bunnydrops]

Rumor --- I'm not sure, but I heard that someone only has to get close to that card in a crowd or while you stand in line. Question-- How long after your last transaction was the first stolen withdrawal?

[robblok]

First of all the card needs to be cloned.. you have to check where you put your card in, if your a bit observant you can spot the cloning device. Second they need a camera or someone to look at you (or put something over the keypad) to record your pin.

Its not that easy and if you shield your pin good they can clone your card but its still useless. Also many banks have anti cloning slots on the machine.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/a-handy-way-to-foil-atm-skimmer-scams/

Edited November 6, 2014 by robblok

[namdocmai]

To me this looks like an inside job because it is in a mall next to the guards. This happens all over the world though.

So far I only used my creditcard to buy air-tickets online and that isn't very easy because of all the protections.

But this year i bought a new motorbike and decided to try paying it with my creditcard. Even before i had put my signature on the paper i allready had paid the total amount. No protections at all.

[Toknarok]

Thanks OP, a timely reminder that this sort of thing can happen anywhere, it's not only in the big towns and cities you have to be on the lookout.

[mrtoad]

Rumor --- I'm not sure, but I heard that someone only has to get close to that card in a crowd or while you stand in line. Question-- How long after your last transaction was the first stolen withdrawal?

A lot of Digital Pikery going on, people on the fringes of the law, making a living through illegal acts. Foreigners as well as Thais involved in this Pikery.

I too have read about scanners that can read cards from near by - on thing with criminals is that they are always creating a new angle to obtain monies.

[KunMatt]

First of all the card needs to be cloned.. you have to check where you put your card in, if your a bit observant you can spot the cloning device. Second they need a camera or someone to look at you (or put something over the keypad) to record your pin.

Its not that easy and if you shield your pin good they can clone your card but its still useless. Also many banks have anti cloning slots on the machine.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/a-handy-way-to-foil-atm-skimmer-scams/

If the bad guys have a clone of your card why can't they use it in shops that don't use Chip and Pin and only use a signature?

A few years ago I left my debit card in an ATM in Panthip Plaza of all places. I immediately called my bank in the UK and cancelled the card and just to check I called the bank the next day to see if a bad guy had picked up my card. There was a list of attempted transactions throughout the day starting about 15 minutes after I lost the card at various gold shops and other outlets all over the city. If I hadn't cancelled the card then the transactions would have been approved. Right?

[arthurwait]

To me this looks like an inside job because it is in a mall next to the guards. This happens all over the world though.

So far I only used my creditcard to buy air-tickets online and that isn't very easy because of all the aprotections.

But this year i bought a new motorbike and decided to try paying it with my creditcard. Even before i had put my signature on the paper i allready had paid the total amount. No protections at all.

Yep it looks like the security guard is in on the act. It needs reporting.

[Robert24]

Best not to use ATM cards here. Just use a passbook account and go to the bank's teller to withdraw cash.

[robblok]

First of all the card needs to be cloned.. you have to check where you put your card in, if your a bit observant you can spot the cloning device. Second they need a camera or someone to look at you (or put something over the keypad) to record your pin.

Its not that easy and if you shield your pin good they can clone your card but its still useless. Also many banks have anti cloning slots on the machine.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/a-handy-way-to-foil-atm-skimmer-scams/

If the bad guys have a clone of your card why can't they use it in shops that don't use Chip and Pin and only use a signature?

A few years ago I left my debit card in an ATM in Panthip Plaza of all places. I immediately called my bank in the UK and cancelled the card and just to check I called the bank the next day to see if a bad guy had picked up my card. There was a list of attempted transactions throughout the day starting about 15 minutes after I lost the card at various gold shops and other outlets all over the city. If I hadn't cancelled the card then the transactions would have been approved. Right?

A cloned card does not look like a real bankcard.. so they can't do that. There is no name on it ect. Its totally different.

I left my diredt debit card in Panthip plaza too last week (stressed accountant with a fried processor) Think mine was left in the ATM but cancelled it the moment i knew i lost it. But for real Thai bank cards that is always a problem. I wonder how they can do such a thing without ID. But it seems to be the norm here.

[KunMatt]

First of all the card needs to be cloned.. you have to check where you put your card in, if your a bit observant you can spot the cloning device. Second they need a camera or someone to look at you (or put something over the keypad) to record your pin.

Its not that easy and if you shield your pin good they can clone your card but its still useless. Also many banks have anti cloning slots on the machine.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/a-handy-way-to-foil-atm-skimmer-scams/

If the bad guys have a clone of your card why can't they use it in shops that don't use Chip and Pin and only use a signature?

A few years ago I left my debit card in an ATM in Panthip Plaza of all places. I immediately called my bank in the UK and cancelled the card and just to check I called the bank the next day to see if a bad guy had picked up my card. There was a list of attempted transactions throughout the day starting about 15 minutes after I lost the card at various gold shops and other outlets all over the city. If I hadn't cancelled the card then the transactions would have been approved. Right?

A cloned card does not look like a real bankcard.. so they can't do that. There is no name on it ect. Its totally different.

I left my diredt debit card in Panthip plaza too last week (stressed accountant with a fried processor) Think mine was left in the ATM but cancelled it the moment i knew i lost it. But for real Thai bank cards that is always a problem. I wonder how they can do such a thing without ID. But it seems to be the norm here.

Do you think the guy who took my card from the ATM looked like a British guy with a British name who had a British bank? The point is that if someone had a cloned card all they need is a machine and they will be able to make trasnactions.

Many times I have used my UK debit card in a Thai bank and they have put the card in the machine upside down so it cannot read the chip, then they swipe it and I sign and take a cash withdrawal. If anyone has a cloned card and a crooked friend in retail then theoretically they can make a transaction on the cloned card, right?

[namdocmai]

For safety reasons i stored the emergency number of my creditcard company in my cellphone. Last year i found out that they had changed that number. I wonder who will be responsible in case i lost the card and tried to call them ASAP.

Also i get scam-emails from the creditcard company weekly. I reported them, they confirmed it was a scam and i still get them weekly!

Then on top of that, the real creditcardcompany sent me an email some weeks later that i had to go to their website and give my cardnumber and so there. This was a genuine mail (i called them first) but they are asking for problems this way.

But in Thailand i try to not use my cards at all now, better have cash.I also refuse to pay the 180 baht transaction costs for using it, that's also a scam in my opinion. 180 baht + 2.25 euro for every atm transaction abroad and then i can get 11000 baht maximum. What a rats they are.

[robblok]

First of all the card needs to be cloned.. you have to check where you put your card in, if your a bit observant you can spot the cloning device. Second they need a camera or someone to look at you (or put something over the keypad) to record your pin.

Its not that easy and if you shield your pin good they can clone your card but its still useless. Also many banks have anti cloning slots on the machine.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/a-handy-way-to-foil-atm-skimmer-scams/

If the bad guys have a clone of your card why can't they use it in shops that don't use Chip and Pin and only use a signature?

A few years ago I left my debit card in an ATM in Panthip Plaza of all places. I immediately called my bank in the UK and cancelled the card and just to check I called the bank the next day to see if a bad guy had picked up my card. There was a list of attempted transactions throughout the day starting about 15 minutes after I lost the card at various gold shops and other outlets all over the city. If I hadn't cancelled the card then the transactions would have been approved. Right?

A cloned card does not look like a real bankcard.. so they can't do that. There is no name on it ect. Its totally different.

I left my diredt debit card in Panthip plaza too last week (stressed accountant with a fried processor) Think mine was left in the ATM but cancelled it the moment i knew i lost it. But for real Thai bank cards that is always a problem. I wonder how they can do such a thing without ID. But it seems to be the norm here.

Do you think the guy who took my card from the ATM looked like a British guy with a British name who had a British bank? The point is that if someone had a cloned card all they need is a machine and they will be able to make trasnactions.

Many times I have used my UK debit card in a Thai bank and they have put the card in the machine upside down so it cannot read the chip, then they swipe it and I sign and take a cash withdrawal. If anyone has a cloned card and a crooked friend in retail then theoretically they can make a transaction on the cloned card, right?

You got a good point.. though I am not sure. What you are saying sounds reasonable. But the times I did anything it was with my Thai card.. my Dutch card.. no way they don't even try my Dutch bank card (atm card) Creditcard maybe.. but you can get money with your thai debitcard.

[daveAustin]

Best not to use ATM cards here. Just use a passbook account and go to the bank's teller to withdraw cash.

Yes, that or have two Thai banking accounts, transferring online from the main ATM-less one to another one with ATM card that has minimal funds.

These people are the scum of the earth. I recommend right hand off for first offence, hanging for subsequent ones.

[NoshowJones]

Best not to use ATM cards here. Just use a passbook account and go to the bank's teller to withdraw cash.

or as I do, open another bank account with a debit card and only leave say about 30.000 Baht. The vast majority of your money being kept in your other bank in a savings account with no debit card.

[Eliot Rosewater]

First of all the card needs to be cloned.. you have to check where you put your card in, if your a bit observant you can spot the cloning device. Second they need a camera or someone to look at you (or put something over the keypad) to record your pin.

Its not that easy and if you shield your pin good they can clone your card but its still useless. Also many banks have anti cloning slots on the machine.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/a-handy-way-to-foil-atm-skimmer-scams/

Not useless as the OP stated that they used only his card; not the pin. They must have made a copy card and used it to buy merchandise at a store. So...PIN not necessary.

[Mencken]

Anything online would require pin and/or csv.

I only use atms connected to my banks. I also only keep b30k in my acct with atm card.

[mania]

Best not to use ATM cards here. Just use a passbook account and go to the bank's teller to withdraw cash.

or as I do, open another bank account with a debit card and only leave say about 30.000 Baht. The vast majority of your money being kept in your other bank in a savings account with no debit card.

+1 & that is how I have always done it.

I have 3 accounts with no access via cards which I use as feeder accounts or to hold the larger money

I have 1 ATM carded account & I feed it no more than 20k or so at a time. Just to use at marketing etc via teh debit card

or ATM for some quick cash.

I too think it is a wise choice as the most your out is that small amount if that

[fatfather]

First of all the card needs to be cloned.. you have to check where you put your card in, if your a bit observant you can spot the cloning device. Second they need a camera or someone to look at you (or put something over the keypad) to record your pin.

Its not that easy and if you shield your pin good they can clone your card but its still useless. Also many banks have anti cloning slots on the machine.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/a-handy-way-to-foil-atm-skimmer-scams/

Nowadays its done with an infrared scanner, just after you put in your PIN. The heat of your fingertips will last for about +/- 15sec, enough to scan the keyboard of the ATM.... The cloning of your card may have been done long before at a different occasion/location...

Fatfather

[mexxx]

rfid & thermal scanners have probably been used in this fraud.

there are anti rfid scanner wallets available & wear gloves when using the atm.

[IMA_FARANG]

If you have a U.S. Social Security Pension, and have it directly deposited to a Bangkok Bank account, that is one of the reason why the U.S. insists you can not have an ATM card on that account they do the direct deposit to.

So you need to have two accounts.

One for the funds that is directly deposited to you, with NO ATM card allowed on that account.

And a second account for your monthly expenses, which you can have an ATM on, controlled by you.

it's up to you the amount you have in that 2nd account, if you are wise you keep the amount low in that "expenses" account, and only transfer what you think you will need from the main account your funds are directly deposited to.

[MobileContent]

First of all the card needs to be cloned.. you have to check where you put your card in, if your a bit observant you can spot the cloning device. Second they need a camera or someone to look at you (or put something over the keypad) to record your pin.

Its not that easy and if you shield your pin good they can clone your card but its still useless. Also many banks have anti cloning slots on the machine.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/a-handy-way-to-foil-atm-skimmer-scams/

If the bad guys have a clone of your card why can't they use it in shops that don't use Chip and Pin and only use a signature?

A few years ago I left my debit card in an ATM in Panthip Plaza of all places. I immediately called my bank in the UK and cancelled the card and just to check I called the bank the next day to see if a bad guy had picked up my card. There was a list of attempted transactions throughout the day starting about 15 minutes after I lost the card at various gold shops and other outlets all over the city. If I hadn't cancelled the card then the transactions would have been approved. Right?

A cloned card does not look like a real bankcard.. so they can't do that. There is no name on it ect. Its totally different.

I left my diredt debit card in Panthip plaza too last week (stressed accountant with a fried processor) Think mine was left in the ATM but cancelled it the moment i knew i lost it. But for real Thai bank cards that is always a problem. I wonder how they can do such a thing without ID. But it seems to be the norm here.

I think some of the shops might be in as well on the deal.

[mitsubishi]

First of all the card needs to be cloned.. you have to check where you put your card in, if your a bit observant you can spot the cloning device. Second they need a camera or someone to look at you (or put something over the keypad) to record your pin.

Its not that easy and if you shield your pin good they can clone your card but its still useless. Also many banks have anti cloning slots on the machine.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/a-handy-way-to-foil-atm-skimmer-scams/

Nowadays its done with an infrared scanner, just after you put in your PIN. The heat of your fingertips will last for about +/- 15sec, enough to scan the keyboard of the ATM.... The cloning of your card may have been done long before at a different occasion/location...

Fatfather

That's not very clever as they'll only grab the 4 numbers and not the sequence. The pros use a spycam counting the number of cards cloned to the number of times people use the atm or just an overlay that fits over the keypad.

Edited November 9, 2014 by mitsubishi

[fatfather]

First of all the card needs to be cloned.. you have to check where you put your card in, if your a bit observant you can spot the cloning device. Second they need a camera or someone to look at you (or put something over the keypad) to record your pin.

Its not that easy and if you shield your pin good they can clone your card but its still useless. Also many banks have anti cloning slots on the machine.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/a-handy-way-to-foil-atm-skimmer-scams/

Nowadays its done with an infrared scanner, just after you put in your PIN. The heat of your fingertips will last for about +/- 15sec, enough to scan the keyboard of the ATM.... The cloning of your card may have been done long before at a different occasion/location...

Fatfather

That's not very clever as they'll only grab the 4 numbers and not the sequence. The pros use a spycam counting the number of cards cloned to the number of times people use the atm or just an overlay that fits over the keypad.

For the heat fade quite quickly, the sequence of the numbers can be seen by different intensity. The most faded heat print is the first number...

Fatfather

[wellred]

Over here there was a news report a few months ago about the next generation of card scanners. If I had to describe them I would say they are thin metallic devices which slot inside of the existing card slot making near impossible to spot, unlike some of the more primitive ones that attach purists of the existing card slot.

These days I ensue the hand pushing in the PIN is covered, usually with my other hand or wallet. Can they do anything with the card if they don't have the Pin?

[ryanhull]

Hey All,

Thanks for the replies and sorry for my slow reply I have been in the UK enjoying the amazing weather and fine beaches,

Natwest said that the dodgy transactions had not used the pin thats how they could easily tell which was the scammer and which was genuine, they had only used the strip however they kind of gave the impression it was using the same cash machine which is odd as I did not know you could even use a cash machine without a pin number? anyway I did not hassle them too much about it all as they refunded me which was good of them to be honest (I expected a long battle of paperwork to get it back)

I think they have most probably cloned the card and bought items yet Natwest claimed it was from the same cash machine which beats me, anyway there is some very happy Thai guy necking shots of Thai whisky on Natwest,

Be careful all anyway that was why I posted this, I now have another natwest account which I transfer too prior to drawing out so even if they clone it they wont be able to get any cash. My wife told me that if the green flashing light above the card slot is not flashing it means the machine has been tampered with.

Rumor --- I'm not sure, but I heard that someone only has to get close to that card in a crowd or while you stand in line. Question-- How long after your last transaction was the first stolen withdrawal?

It was the same date

Cheers all.