Koh Tao suspects to be indicted by end of month

[jdinasia]

http://www.channel4....ub-judice-rules

Jdinasia @ "Finally, note that UK contempt laws only apply to legal proceedings that are taking place in the UK. You could not, therefore, be in contempt of US legal proceedings for broadcasting prejudicial material in the UK."

And that's precisely why you will not hear Hannah and Davids friends making any statements to the press in the UK contrary to you earlier statement that they have freedom of speech. Until after the inquest.

By the way nice to see that you are quoting from a credible source that was handed to you by Katoom so you can now in future be clear about your statements.

Your conclusions are wrong. The inquest doesn't prevent the discussion of things that might prejudice a case in Thailand. The inquest itself has absolutely no bearing on anything in Thailand.

I suggest you look at exactly what the inquest is empowered to do.

Your wrong. My conclusion is that you will not hear any statements in the UK media made by Hannah's or David's friends. I did not mention Thailand, you mention this.

However your correct that the inquest will have no bearing on the case in Thailand.

Other that tell the truth as the inquest finds and the consequences of that to the RTP investigation

What the inquest can tell us.

Cause of death.

Types of injuries.

Toxicology

That is about all it will reveal.

I was aware of that. That is precisely what we want to hear from the inquest, nothing more. That in itself will reveal whats needed

So, people who were on the island and didn't witness the murders would be outside the scope of the Inquest.

[KunMatt]

"The duo appeared calm and less stressed compared to before, possibly because of frequent visits from their lawyer and representatives of the National Human Rights Commission, police said."

Well that is one theory. They could also appear more calm because they haven't just been doused in petrol and threatened with a waving zippo. Or had boiling water poured on their arm pits and neck to extract a false confession. I guess the knowledge that at least 400k people around the world are wanting to see the "real" killers caught in this case, and refuse to be bullied by uniformed cowards, will also be buoying their moods.

"Well that is one theory. They could also appear more calm because they haven't just been doused in petrol and threatened with a waving zippo"

And that's just another speculative theory.

"Or had boiling water poured on their arm pits and neck"

As was evidenced by the photographs of the permanent scarring such treatment would render. Oh yes, there were no such photos.

"Oh yes, there were no such photos."

You mean, you haven't yet seen any such photo?

Why not have a gander at this thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/765690-thailand-beach-murders-police-defend-bizarre-public-reconstruction-of-slayings-by-suspects/page-17

Post 417 has a very clear photo of the 2 Burmese midgets. The taller of the 2 has very clear scald or throttle marks on his neck. Have a look.

No there are not.

BTW they aren't midgets either. The 2 Burmese men are exactly that. Men

But they were much smaller men than David, right?

I cannot remember but David was either 6'2 or 6'4 and the 2 Burmese guys are at least a foot shorter than him and are built like children. How can you believe that they were able to over power 2 expats? Or why would they even attempt to with such a large expat there?

[thailandchilli]

http://www.channel4....ub-judice-rules

Jdinasia @ "Finally, note that UK contempt laws only apply to legal proceedings that are taking place in the UK. You could not, therefore, be in contempt of US legal proceedings for broadcasting prejudicial material in the UK."

And that's precisely why you will not hear Hannah and Davids friends making any statements to the press in the UK contrary to you earlier statement that they have freedom of speech. Until after the inquest.

By the way nice to see that you are quoting from a credible source that was handed to you by Katoom so you can now in future be clear about your statements.

Your conclusions are wrong. The inquest doesn't prevent the discussion of things that might prejudice a case in Thailand. The inquest itself has absolutely no bearing on anything in Thailand.

I suggest you look at exactly what the inquest is empowered to do.

Your wrong. My conclusion is that you will not hear any statements in the UK media made by Hannah's or David's friends. I did not mention Thailand, you mention this.

However your correct that the inquest will have no bearing on the case in Thailand.

Other that tell the truth as the inquest finds and the consequences of that to the RTP investigation

What the inquest can tell us.

Cause of death.

Types of injuries.

Toxicology

That is about all it will reveal.

I was aware of that. That is precisely what we want to hear from the inquest, nothing more. That in itself will reveal whats needed

So, people who were on the island and didn't witness the murders would be outside the scope of the Inquest.

Wrong. People who are deemed to be a witness by way of having any knowledge into how Hannah may have been killed, any knowledge as to whether she took any drugs or any knowledge on her whereabouts at the time. They do not need to be witness to the actual murder

[AGareth2]

BTW they aren't midgets either. The 2 Burmese men are exactly that. Men (quote)

what a nasty thing to say about mdigets

Edited November 9, 2014 by AGareth2

[jdinasia]

The phone issue has been dealt with.

That HANNAH'S friends have not made any statement...

You are avoiding my rebuttal to your assertion that they have free speech in the following;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/774320-police-coy-over-new-probe-into-koh-tao-murders/?p=8645781

Would you care to comment with reference to you assertion above?

Murder occurred in Thailand.

Look at the memorandum regarding murder Manslaughter and Infanticide of citizens abroad.

Irrelevant.

UK law is irrelevant?

JD I believe your dealing with a real ex British policeman who does actually know what he is talking about

So please stop playing the role of RTP's dancing farang monkey

I believe the gentleman said that he is ex HK police. A force that has had its own challenges for sure!

Also, IME, not all policeman know all aspects of the law particularly well. That does not include Mr. Katoom because I don't know him so can't comment.

I think I remember JD also saying that he's not a lawyer, solicitor or been involved in law enforcement.

They are entitled to their opinions.

The important point is that an inquest has been fixed, the British police are involved, they will report their "observations" at the appropriate time in the appropriate manner. They won't blab and make all sorts of comments to journalists (usually) and will play it strictly by the book. Most British police officers are professionals who won't be distracted by all the noise around cases. Even the somewhat unsavory reputation that proceeds the RTP won't be an influence as such. They will be unbiased and their report will reflect reality - whatever that is. The inquest has been fixed for January, so don't expect anything before then. The trial of the two Burmese suspects could be over and done by then. That might expect the nervousness of the Thai prosecutor. Might not want to be involved in an "open and shut case" that is later pulled to pieces in the UK.

I am not sure how much concern a prosecutor would have regarding any report from the inquest. His job is to make sure there is enough evidence for a conviction and to proceed.

I don't expect much of a report from the UK police.

[AGareth2]

David weighed about 90 plus

the B2 about 45 each

I read they were only 150 tall

did they hold him down to stab him?

[Baerboxer]

When I read this, can't help thinking about all the other cases like this one whereby police and/or "influential" persons have murdered others, and done exactly like you said, find scapegoats ,obfuscate, waste time, wait for it all to go away- and it will. KJ in CM, Blue Diamond, the Brit couple in Kanchanaburi (although the murdering policeman was arrested in this rare case).Red Bull, LDP in Pai, the list goes on and on and on. Similarities with the KJ investigation are uncanny with the blatant attempt to falsify the DNA evidence(which apparently has become standard operating procedure after the KJ investigation was successfully FUBAR'ed)

The sad reality is that this case will go exactly the same way. 20 yrs down the road, identity of real killers will be publicly known and easy to find with a google search, but case will be closed or uninvestigated. Only chance of justice here for the KT serial murders will be vigilante justice, might not be such a long wait.

"KJ in CM, Blue Diamond, the Brit couple in Kanchanaburi (although the murdering policeman was arrested in this rare case).Red Bull, LDP in Pai, the list goes on and on and on."

But your list does not go "on and on and on" it just contains glaring nonsense. As you said yourself the Kanchanaburi case should not be on your list. There was no murder in the Red Bull case either and even if there was that case has not ended.

"There was no murder in the Red Bull case either and even if there was that case has not ended."

Really? Could you provide an update on the progress of that case? Or a link to an update please?

Interesting the early attempt to pervert the course of justice. The servant being set up to take the wrap is jailed. The senior police officer involved was "transferred" with, AFAIK, no further action taken. Red Bull boy and his family never charged with any wrong doing in the attempted lie. The other cases mentioned, and many more are easily researched if you want to check.

I don't recall any suggestion of "serial killings" on KT.

The application of law is based on wealth, family, connections and influence in Thailand. It has little to do with truth and justice.

[Bleacher Bum East]

http://www.channel4....ub-judice-rules

Jdinasia @ "Finally, note that UK contempt laws only apply to legal proceedings that are taking place in the UK. You could not, therefore, be in contempt of US legal proceedings for broadcasting prejudicial material in the UK."

And that's precisely why you will not hear Hannah and Davids friends making any statements to the press in the UK contrary to you earlier statement that they have freedom of speech. Until after the inquest.

By the way nice to see that you are quoting from a credible source that was handed to you by Katoom so you can now in future be clear about your statements.

Your conclusions are wrong. The inquest doesn't prevent the discussion of things that might prejudice a case in Thailand. The inquest itself has absolutely no bearing on anything in Thailand.

I suggest you look at exactly what the inquest is empowered to do.

Your wrong. My conclusion is that you will not hear any statements in the UK media made by Hannah's or David's friends. I did not mention Thailand, you mention this.

However your correct that the inquest will have no bearing on the case in Thailand.

Other that tell the truth as the inquest finds and the consequences of that to the RTP investigation

What the inquest can tell us.

Cause of death.

Types of injuries.

Toxicology

That is about all it will reveal.

I was aware of that. That is precisely what we want to hear from the inquest, nothing more. That in itself will reveal whats needed

So, people who were on the island and didn't witness the murders would be outside the scope of the Inquest.

"So, people who were on the island and didn't witness the murders would be outside the scope of the Inquest."

See my reply in #180 above . . . it is clearly not outside the scope of the inquest. In fact the scope is very broad.

And your statement makes absolutely no sense.

That would mean that if a UK resident saw a person walking away from a crime scene covered in blood and carrying a bloody knife, but did not actually witness the murder, then you would consider that outside of the scope of the coroner's inquest.

[jdinasia]

"The duo appeared calm and less stressed compared to before, possibly because of frequent visits from their lawyer and representatives of the National Human Rights Commission, police said."

Well that is one theory. They could also appear more calm because they haven't just been doused in petrol and threatened with a waving zippo. Or had boiling water poured on their arm pits and neck to extract a false confession. I guess the knowledge that at least 400k people around the world are wanting to see the "real" killers caught in this case, and refuse to be bullied by uniformed cowards, will also be buoying their moods.

"Well that is one theory. They could also appear more calm because they haven't just been doused in petrol and threatened with a waving zippo"

And that's just another speculative theory.

"Or had boiling water poured on their arm pits and neck"

As was evidenced by the photographs of the permanent scarring such treatment would render. Oh yes, there were no such photos.

"Oh yes, there were no such photos."

You mean, you haven't yet seen any such photo?

Why not have a gander at this thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/765690-thailand-beach-murders-police-defend-bizarre-public-reconstruction-of-slayings-by-suspects/page-17

Post 417 has a very clear photo of the 2 Burmese midgets. The taller of the 2 has very clear scald or throttle marks on his neck. Have a look.

No there are not.

BTW they aren't midgets either. The 2 Burmese men are exactly that. Men

But they were much smaller men than David, right?

I cannot remember but David was either 6'2 or 6'4 and the 2 Burmese guys are at least a foot shorter than him and are built like children. How can you believe that they were able to over power 2 expats? Or why would they even attempt to with such a large expat there?

It is very easy to overpower a larger person.

[KunMatt]

"The duo appeared calm and less stressed compared to before, possibly because of frequent visits from their lawyer and representatives of the National Human Rights Commission, police said."

Well that is one theory. They could also appear more calm because they haven't just been doused in petrol and threatened with a waving zippo. Or had boiling water poured on their arm pits and neck to extract a false confession. I guess the knowledge that at least 400k people around the world are wanting to see the "real" killers caught in this case, and refuse to be bullied by uniformed cowards, will also be buoying their moods.

"Well that is one theory. They could also appear more calm because they haven't just been doused in petrol and threatened with a waving zippo"

And that's just another speculative theory.

"Or had boiling water poured on their arm pits and neck"

As was evidenced by the photographs of the permanent scarring such treatment would render. Oh yes, there were no such photos.

"Oh yes, there were no such photos."

You mean, you haven't yet seen any such photo?

Why not have a gander at this thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/765690-thailand-beach-murders-police-defend-bizarre-public-reconstruction-of-slayings-by-suspects/page-17

Post 417 has a very clear photo of the 2 Burmese midgets. The taller of the 2 has very clear scald or throttle marks on his neck. Have a look.

No there are not.

BTW they aren't midgets either. The 2 Burmese men are exactly that. Men

But they were much smaller men than David, right?

I cannot remember but David was either 6'2 or 6'4 and the 2 Burmese guys are at least a foot shorter than him and are built like children. How can you believe that they were able to over power 2 expats? Or why would they even attempt to with such a large expat there?

It is very easy to overpower a larger person.

That's your answer?? Lol, ok.

So you believe that 2 child size Asians decided to start a fight with a 1.90m young and in shape British guy with another larger Britiah female for some reason and against all odds they won. And during the fight Hannah just hung around waiting for them to fight her and then they both managed to beat her too.

This sounds plausible to you does it?

Or do you believe that 1 guy fought with David and 1 guy fought with Hannah? Because the chances of one of those small Asians overpowering and murdering a large British guy on their own is even slimmer.

[Baerboxer]

The phone issue has been dealt with.

That HANNAH'S friends have not made any statement...

You are avoiding my rebuttal to your assertion that they have free speech in the following;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/774320-police-coy-over-new-probe-into-koh-tao-murders/?p=8645781

Would you care to comment with reference to you assertion above?

Murder occurred in Thailand.

Look at the memorandum regarding murder Manslaughter and Infanticide of citizens abroad.

Irrelevant.

UK law is irrelevant?

JD I believe your dealing with a real ex British policeman who does actually know what he is talking about

So please stop playing the role of RTP's dancing farang monkey

I believe the gentleman said that he is ex HK police. A force that has had its own challenges for sure!

Also, IME, not all policeman know all aspects of the law particularly well. That does not include Mr. Katoom because I don't know him so can't comment.

I think I remember JD also saying that he's not a lawyer, solicitor or been involved in law enforcement.

They are entitled to their opinions.

The important point is that an inquest has been fixed, the British police are involved, they will report their "observations" at the appropriate time in the appropriate manner. They won't blab and make all sorts of comments to journalists (usually) and will play it strictly by the book. Most British police officers are professionals who won't be distracted by all the noise around cases. Even the somewhat unsavory reputation that proceeds the RTP won't be an influence as such. They will be unbiased and their report will reflect reality - whatever that is. The inquest has been fixed for January, so don't expect anything before then. The trial of the two Burmese suspects could be over and done by then. That might expect the nervousness of the Thai prosecutor. Might not want to be involved in an "open and shut case" that is later pulled to pieces in the UK.

I am not sure how much concern a prosecutor would have regarding any report from the inquest. His job is to make sure there is enough evidence for a conviction and to proceed.

I don't expect much of a report from the UK police.

I think, given the very wide publicity on this case, that the Thai prosecutors will be very concerned about the outcome. They're clever enough to see it's not simply going away like other cases have. Look at how the OAG acts in cases involving hisos - Thaksin and Yingluck are good recent examples. They just prevaricate because they don't want to upset either side or accept weak sentences etc. Why should the prosecutors be deemed any more professional than other civil servants here all of a sudden?

I think the UK police, 3 senior officers, will produce a very thorough report for their superiors. How much of that becomes public is a different matter.

[AGareth2]

Really?

could you explain JD?

[tattoodrob]

"It is very easy to overpower a larger person"

You are starting to lose the plot me thinks!

Is there anything you will agree on.............usually your posts have a little sense to them but to say its very easy to overpower a larger person then thats not right.......im sure David would have put up an incredible struggle to save his and Hannahs life,maybe he unlucky and was hit hard in the head first which may have rendered him unconscious or groggy but i wouldnt say its very easy for a 50kg guy to overpower a 90kg plus guy,even 2 of them together would not be "easy" and then Hannah would scream/struggle/run away but no evidence of any of that which is strange.......i believe was more than 2 guys involved in the murders,probably 4 i would guess.

[KunMatt]

"It is very easy to overpower a larger person"

You are starting to lose the plot me thinks!

Is there anything you will agree on.............usually your posts have a little sense to them but to say its very easy to overpower a larger person then thats not right.......im sure David would have put up an incredible struggle to save his and Hannahs life,maybe he unlucky and was hit hard in the head first which may have rendered him unconscious or groggy but i wouldnt say its very easy for a 50kg guy to overpower a 90kg plus guy,even 2 of them together would not be "easy" and then Hannah would scream/struggle/run away but no evidence of any of that which is strange.......i believe was more than 2 guys involved in the murders,probably 4 i would guess.

And maybe a gun.

[Soutpeel]

I don't expect much of a report from the UK police.

You mean your hoping there is not much of a report ?.

[AGareth2]

ninja Burmese jd?

[jdinasia]

http://www.channel4....ub-judice-rules

Jdinasia @ "Finally, note that UK contempt laws only apply to legal proceedings that are taking place in the UK. You could not, therefore, be in contempt of US legal proceedings for broadcasting prejudicial material in the UK."

And that's precisely why you will not hear Hannah and Davids friends making any statements to the press in the UK contrary to you earlier statement that they have freedom of speech. Until after the inquest.

By the way nice to see that you are quoting from a credible source that was handed to you by Katoom so you can now in future be clear about your statements.

Your conclusions are wrong. The inquest doesn't prevent the discussion of things that might prejudice a case in Thailand. The inquest itself has absolutely no bearing on anything in Thailand.

I suggest you look at exactly what the inquest is empowered to do.

Your wrong. My conclusion is that you will not hear any statements in the UK media made by Hannah's or David's friends. I did not mention Thailand, you mention this.

However your correct that the inquest will have no bearing on the case in Thailand.

Other that tell the truth as the inquest finds and the consequences of that to the RTP investigation

What the inquest can tell us.

Cause of death.

Types of injuries.

Toxicology

That is about all it will reveal.

I was aware of that. That is precisely what we want to hear from the inquest, nothing more. That in itself will reveal whats needed

So, people who were on the island and didn't witness the murders would be outside the scope of the Inquest.

"So, people who were on the island and didn't witness the murders would be outside the scope of the Inquest."

See my reply in #180 above . . . it is clearly not outside the scope of the inquest. In fact the scope is very broad.

And your statement makes absolutely no sense.

That would mean that if a UK resident saw a person walking away from a crime scene covered in blood and carrying a bloody knife, but did not actually witness the murder, then you would consider that outside of the scope of the coroner's inquest.

Actually, if the person was at the crime scene, they could be considered a witness.

You seem to be forgetting that the fact finding mission of the coroner's inquest is not to determine guilt or innocence. It is to determine cause of death.

[jdinasia]

I don't expect much of a report from the UK police.

You mean your hoping there is not much of a report ?.

No, if I meant that I would have said that.

The scope of the mandate for the UK police was extremely limited.

[jaidam]

"It is very easy to overpower a larger person"

You are starting to lose the plot me thinks!

Is there anything you will agree on.............usually your posts have a little sense to them but to say its very easy to overpower a larger person then thats not right.......im sure David would have put up an incredible struggle to save his and Hannahs life,maybe he unlucky and was hit hard in the head first which may have rendered him unconscious or groggy but i wouldnt say its very easy for a 50kg guy to overpower a 90kg plus guy,even 2 of them together would not be "easy" and then Hannah would scream/struggle/run away but no evidence of any of that which is strange.......i believe was more than 2 guys involved in the murders,probably 4 i would guess.

And maybe a gun.

Well the 2B could have swung the hoe so fast that it went supersonic, hence the skull fragments and spatter on the rocks. Or yes, as you say, maybe there was a gun involved.

[heyexile]

I believe HMG cares about its nationals overseas more than it cares about trading with this regime and that, for all its faults, the Uk stands up for justice where its own are involved. Do you disagree that relationships between Th and Uk are at their lowest ebb since WW2? On the whole I prefer a little British nationalism to the present xenophobic Thai version. .We want to see justice for innocent British victims.

Has been said that "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". I am aware of that and do not often beat a nationalist drum but from time to time I may wave whatever flag I care to. Uk does not need Thailand ihmo.

edit sp

And Thailand most certainly does not need the UK. The days of Western Imperialism are over.

Good, have not suggested they do!. TH may miss EU markets for fruit, seafood, rice etc if sanctions were imposed Further western govt travel warnings would reduce TH tourist earnings further and they admit to feeling the pinch there. Uk is part of NATO, EU and Commonwealth. We have plenty of strategic allies in the region. Let TH align with one party China which would suit current regime. They cant continue to play off US/China and must chose. Some of us hoped TH would align with other ASEAN and regional democracies but no longer possible under this regime.

A pity, Thailand`s rulers used to admire British institutions.

[AGareth2]

tourist falls from 2nd floor

[jdinasia]

The phone issue has been dealt with.

That HANNAH'S friends have not made any statement...

You are avoiding my rebuttal to your assertion that they have free speech in the following;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/774320-police-coy-over-new-probe-into-koh-tao-murders/?p=8645781

Would you care to comment with reference to you assertion above?

Murder occurred in Thailand.

Look at the memorandum regarding murder Manslaughter and Infanticide of citizens abroad.

Irrelevant.

UK law is irrelevant?

JD I believe your dealing with a real ex British policeman who does actually know what he is talking about

So please stop playing the role of RTP's dancing farang monkey

I believe the gentleman said that he is ex HK police. A force that has had its own challenges for sure!

Also, IME, not all policeman know all aspects of the law particularly well. That does not include Mr. Katoom because I don't know him so can't comment.

I think I remember JD also saying that he's not a lawyer, solicitor or been involved in law enforcement.

They are entitled to their opinions.

The important point is that an inquest has been fixed, the British police are involved, they will report their "observations" at the appropriate time in the appropriate manner. They won't blab and make all sorts of comments to journalists (usually) and will play it strictly by the book. Most British police officers are professionals who won't be distracted by all the noise around cases. Even the somewhat unsavory reputation that proceeds the RTP won't be an influence as such. They will be unbiased and their report will reflect reality - whatever that is. The inquest has been fixed for January, so don't expect anything before then. The trial of the two Burmese suspects could be over and done by then. That might expect the nervousness of the Thai prosecutor. Might not want to be involved in an "open and shut case" that is later pulled to pieces in the UK.

I am not sure how much concern a prosecutor would have regarding any report from the inquest. His job is to make sure there is enough evidence for a conviction and to proceed.

I don't expect much of a report from the UK police.

I think, given the very wide publicity on this case, that the Thai prosecutors will be very concerned about the outcome. They're clever enough to see it's not simply going away like other cases have. Look at how the OAG acts in cases involving hisos - Thaksin and Yingluck are good recent examples. They just prevaricate because they don't want to upset either side or accept weak sentences etc. Why should the prosecutors be deemed any more professional than other civil servants here all of a sudden?

I think the UK police, 3 senior officers, will produce a very thorough report for their superiors. How much of that becomes public is a different matter.

I expect the official report to stay completely within the mandate they were given.

Comments on the way the case was handled and the alleged torture and not much more. It is important to remember that they were present as observers.

[jdinasia]

"It is very easy to overpower a larger person"

You are starting to lose the plot me thinks!

Is there anything you will agree on.............usually your posts have a little sense to them but to say its very easy to overpower a larger person then thats not right.......im sure David would have put up an incredible struggle to save his and Hannahs life,maybe he unlucky and was hit hard in the head first which may have rendered him unconscious or groggy but i wouldnt say its very easy for a 50kg guy to overpower a 90kg plus guy,even 2 of them together would not be "easy" and then Hannah would scream/struggle/run away but no evidence of any of that which is strange.......i believe was more than 2 guys involved in the murders,probably 4 i would guess.

And maybe a gun.

Well the 2B could have swung the hoe so fast that it went supersonic, hence the skull fragments and spatter on the rocks. Or yes, as you say, maybe there was a gun involved.

Ah another conspiracy theory from social media (csila) that apparently was cleanly refuted on that same site.

[jdinasia]

I believe HMG cares about its nationals overseas more than it cares about trading with this regime and that, for all its faults, the Uk stands up for justice where its own are involved. Do you disagree that relationships between Th and Uk are at their lowest ebb since WW2? On the whole I prefer a little British nationalism to the present xenophobic Thai version. .We want to see justice for innocent British victims.

Has been said that "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". I am aware of that and do not often beat a nationalist drum but from time to time I may wave whatever flag I care to. Uk does not need Thailand ihmo.

edit sp

And Thailand most certainly does not need the UK. The days of Western Imperialism are over.

Good, have not suggested they do!. TH may miss EU markets for fruit, seafood, rice etc if sanctions were imposed Further western govt travel warnings would reduce TH tourist earnings further and they admit to feeling the pinch there. Uk is part of NATO, EU and Commonwealth. We have plenty of strategic allies in the region. Let TH align with one party China which would suit current regime. They cant continue to play off US/China and must chose. Some of us hoped TH would align with other ASEAN and regional democracies but no longer possible under this regime.

A pity, Thailand`s rulers used to admire British institutions.

I am curious, which ASEAN democracies are you referring to? Who are these UK strategic allies in SEA?

[KunMatt]

"It is very easy to overpower a larger person"

You are starting to lose the plot me thinks!

Is there anything you will agree on.............usually your posts have a little sense to them but to say its very easy to overpower a larger person then thats not right.......im sure David would have put up an incredible struggle to save his and Hannahs life,maybe he unlucky and was hit hard in the head first which may have rendered him unconscious or groggy but i wouldnt say its very easy for a 50kg guy to overpower a 90kg plus guy,even 2 of them together would not be "easy" and then Hannah would scream/struggle/run away but no evidence of any of that which is strange.......i believe was more than 2 guys involved in the murders,probably 4 i would guess.

And maybe a gun.

Well the 2B could have swung the hoe so fast that it went supersonic, hence the skull fragments and spatter on the rocks. Or yes, as you say, maybe there was a gun involved.

Ah another conspiracy theory from social media (csila) that apparently was cleanly refuted on that same site.

So are you just going to ignore the point of how 2 child sized Asians were able to over power 2 British expats, one of whom was a young 1.90m male, and not receive any abrasions or injuries of their own?

[jdinasia]

"It is very easy to overpower a larger person"

You are starting to lose the plot me thinks!

Is there anything you will agree on.............usually your posts have a little sense to them but to say its very easy to overpower a larger person then thats not right.......im sure David would have put up an incredible struggle to save his and Hannahs life,maybe he unlucky and was hit hard in the head first which may have rendered him unconscious or groggy but i wouldnt say its very easy for a 50kg guy to overpower a 90kg plus guy,even 2 of them together would not be "easy" and then Hannah would scream/struggle/run away but no evidence of any of that which is strange.......i believe was more than 2 guys involved in the murders,probably 4 i would guess.

And maybe a gun.

Well the 2B could have swung the hoe so fast that it went supersonic, hence the skull fragments and spatter on the rocks. Or yes, as you say, maybe there was a gun involved.

Ah another conspiracy theory from social media (csila) that apparently was cleanly refuted on that same site.

So are you just going to ignore the point of how 2 child sized Asians were able to over power 2 British expats, one of whom was a young 1.90m male, and not receive any abrasions or injuries of their own?

One blow to the head from behind?

Surprise /blitz attacks with a weapon that can split a skull are very effective.

[KunMatt]

"It is very easy to overpower a larger person"

You are starting to lose the plot me thinks!

Is there anything you will agree on.............usually your posts have a little sense to them but to say its very easy to overpower a larger person then thats not right.......im sure David would have put up an incredible struggle to save his and Hannahs life,maybe he unlucky and was hit hard in the head first which may have rendered him unconscious or groggy but i wouldnt say its very easy for a 50kg guy to overpower a 90kg plus guy,even 2 of them together would not be "easy" and then Hannah would scream/struggle/run away but no evidence of any of that which is strange.......i believe was more than 2 guys involved in the murders,probably 4 i would guess.

And maybe a gun.

Well the 2B could have swung the hoe so fast that it went supersonic, hence the skull fragments and spatter on the rocks. Or yes, as you say, maybe there was a gun involved.

Ah another conspiracy theory from social media (csila) that apparently was cleanly refuted on that same site.

So are you just going to ignore the point of how 2 child sized Asians were able to over power 2 British expats, one of whom was a young 1.90m male, and not receive any abrasions or injuries of their own?

One blow to the head from behind?

Surprise /blitz attacks with a weapon that can split a skull are very effective.

Except that is not consistent with the injuries that David has.

[jdinasia]

He received a massive blow to the head. That blow and drowning were the reported cause of death.

[Bleacher Bum East]

http://www.channel4....ub-judice-rules

Jdinasia @ "Finally, note that UK contempt laws only apply to legal proceedings that are taking place in the UK. You could not, therefore, be in contempt of US legal proceedings for broadcasting prejudicial material in the UK."

And that's precisely why you will not hear Hannah and Davids friends making any statements to the press in the UK contrary to you earlier statement that they have freedom of speech. Until after the inquest.

By the way nice to see that you are quoting from a credible source that was handed to you by Katoom so you can now in future be clear about your statements.

Your conclusions are wrong. The inquest doesn't prevent the discussion of things that might prejudice a case in Thailand. The inquest itself has absolutely no bearing on anything in Thailand.

I suggest you look at exactly what the inquest is empowered to do.

Your wrong. My conclusion is that you will not hear any statements in the UK media made by Hannah's or David's friends. I did not mention Thailand, you mention this.

However your correct that the inquest will have no bearing on the case in Thailand.

Other that tell the truth as the inquest finds and the consequences of that to the RTP investigation

What the inquest can tell us.

Cause of death.

Types of injuries.

Toxicology

That is about all it will reveal.

I was aware of that. That is precisely what we want to hear from the inquest, nothing more. That in itself will reveal whats needed

So, people who were on the island and didn't witness the murders would be outside the scope of the Inquest.

"So, people who were on the island and didn't witness the murders would be outside the scope of the Inquest."

See my reply in #180 above . . . it is clearly not outside the scope of the inquest. In fact the scope is very broad.

And your statement makes absolutely no sense.

That would mean that if a UK resident saw a person walking away from a crime scene covered in blood and carrying a bloody knife, but did not actually witness the murder, then you would consider that outside of the scope of the coroner's inquest.

Actually, if the person was at the crime scene, they could be considered a witness.

You seem to be forgetting that the fact finding mission of the coroner's inquest is not to determine guilt or innocence. It is to determine cause of death.

"Actually, if the person was at the crime scene, they could be considered a witness.

Of course they could, that is obvious.

My example was intended to be of a person not at the crime scene, but who saw a person moving away from the crime scene--let's say they were on the road along the beach but not on the beach itself--who saw someone carrying a bloody knife.

Clearly they could also be a witness at the inquest ... but you say they could not because they "didn't witness the murders" so this would be "outside the scope of the inquest".

"You seem to be forgetting that the fact finding mission of the coroner's inquest is not to determine guilt or innocence. It is to determine cause of death. "

I am not forgetting anything...you are misrepresenting the scope of the inquest as stated in the Memorandum you often cite.

Your first sentence is correct, it is a fact finding inquiry and is not to determine guilt or innocence.

Your second statement, that the inquiry is to determine cause of death--and by clear implication nothing else--is not true.

The coroner's investigation and inquest is also to determine the circumstances surrounding the death ...

Section 6.2 of the Memorandum

The coroner is an independent judicial officer with legal responsibility for investigating the cause and circumstances of any death which may be violent . . . .

As I've stated in posts, the Memorandum gives the coroner a broad scope of what can be looked into in investigating those circumstances---see for example Section 6.12 Requests for Information from Overseas by the Coroner.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/141958/mou-fco-acpo-coroners.pdf

BTW two interesting points contained in the Part 1 Introduction to this Memorandum, which can cut both ways as to what will be done and disclosed by the UK authorities:

First, the contents of the Memorandum are intended to ensure that a minimum standard of assistance is provided following a death overseas. Therefore the Memorandum itself does not preclude a higher level of assistance, including a broader scope of investigation by the coroner, police, etc.

Second, the Memorandum "is not, nor could it ever be, a legally enforceable document". This means the Memorandum is not "UK law" as has been stated, it is more of a government policy intended to serve a public purpose. Therefore, despite what the Memorandum calls for on its face, if the British government decides that either more or less investigation, disclosure, etc. is appropriate in a given situation, then it may override the Memorandum without any direct legal ramifications (although there may be non-legal ramifications such as undermining confidence in the "minimum standard" set by the document).

[KunMatt]

He received a massive blow to the head. That blow and drowning were the reported cause of death.

He had several blows to the head consistent with being ground and pounded unconscious and then dumped in the sea to drown.

I have one of those Thai hoes in our house in Isaan. If someone is attacked from behind with a full unexpected blow then it would be fatal. There would be no reason to hit that person many times and then drag his heavy body into the sea. The blows would not leave small incisions like David has on the side of his head either.

Edited November 9, 2014 by KunMatt