Visa Help Urgent!

[scn]

Hello

I am an indian citizen and married to a woman of thai nationality. We registered our marriage in india and hav been living in india since. We also have a very pretty daughter. So much for personal information.

Now I applied for a thai visa and we were told that our marriage is not recognized by the thai embassy for issuing me and our baby a Non-Imm O visa as our marriage should be registred with Thai authorities.

I have also got an admission into Sasin for MBA, one of the most prestigious institutes in thailand. I have recieved a letter from Sasin requesting the thai consulate here to issue me a visa. Unfortunately they say that Sasin per se is not recognized and the letter has to be from Chulalongkorn university.

My questions are then

1) Can I go on a tourist visa to thailand for both myself and our baby and get it converted there into an ED visa at the immigration there or into an Non-Imm O visa?.

2) If not then what alternatives do the knowlegeable and experienced members of this forum have to advice me?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

SCN

[caughtintheact]

As a SASIN alumnus myself, I'll try to help.

I do not think the official who gave you this information is telling you the truth. But it is hard to fight city hall.

I was married to a Thai citizen in the Philippines and was able to get an non-immigrant visa based on my marriage.

You might try another Thai consulate in India.

You might try having your wife contact the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok to get the rules clarified.

It might mean two trips, but why not come as a tourist, then just go to the amphur where your wife is from and register the marriage?

Can you come here on a student visa, and have your wife travel with you, but separately. Once you are here you can register the marriage if you want to.

I am not sure if you can convert a tourist visa, so I'll leave that to some of the other folks on the forum.

You should contact SASIN and see if they can get the letter of admission issued on Chula letterhead. After all, SASIN is a part of Chula. I've emailed admissions to see if they can tell me, but it is better if you do it yourself as well.

[email protected]

Sounds to me like the official you spoke to has been there too long.

[scn]

Thanks Caughtintheact

I have already tried to contact another royal thai embassy in india. I am following up on your suggestions also. Thanks for the help. If any thing more you can advice me pls do so. You make me gald about the Sasin community already.

when everything is resolved and I am there maybe we will meet sometime!

SCN

[huski]

why not come as a tourist, then just go to the amphur where your wife is from and register the marriage?

try and get your marriage certificate translated and certified in thai and then go to a different consulate, if you still can't get your your non immigrant O, enter with a tourist visa and go to the amphur as sugested by caughtintheact. this is a for sure way to get your non immigrant O visa on the next visa run which you should have instead of the non immigrant ED which is only valid while you are in school.

Can you come here on a student visa, and have your wife travel with you, but separately.

travel seperately ?? why, they are on their honeymoon.

[scn]

What is required to get a marriage certificate in thailand? I mean in terms of documents?

[lopburi3]

What is required to get a marriage certificate in thailand?

Exactly what you can not provide; word from your Embassy that you are not married.

If Thailand really does not recognize your Indian marriage believe you have a problem which might require divorce paperwork in India prior to registration of marriage in Thailand. But as previously said you may have been given false information and I would check other/higher until you are sure. Also what they may have been saying is that your Indian marriage paperwork has to be sent to Thailand for registration at MFA before it becomes legal in which case it needs to be translated by someone certified by the Embassy first.

So my first step would be to ask same people what is required to "register your marriage" with Thai authorities. It may not be as hard as it seems.

[scn]

Would a certificate of translation into of the Indian marriage certificate be enough for registration in thailand or would I require a certificate of being single as some say here. This seems a little odd because I am already married now!

[Richard Hall]

I would give it a try as follows:

Have your Indian wedding certificate translated into Thai. Go to Bangkok together with your wife on basis of a tourist visa. Get your wedding documents legalized by the Indian embassy in Bangkok. Possibly, they can even issue an additional letter/certificate stating that you have been legally married in India. Having these documents on hand go to the Central Register in Bangkok and register your marriage there and get the appropriate document in Thai stating that you are legally married to a Thai or better say that your Thai wife is legally married to you. With this on hand have your Thai wife get her legal status in the ID and house register changed from Ms. to Mrs. It surely helps if your wife shows in a house register here in Bangkok because then everything can be handled right in the capital.

Go to Immigration in Soi Suan Plu to the Visa Change Department (Khun Pallop - as far as I remember he has his office on the second or third floor) and apply for getting your tourist visa changed into a non-immigrant O (you will need to show 400.000 Baht in a Thai bank account).

I doubt that an abroad embassy can assist you to get your marriage recognized in Thailand. This needs surely to be done by you here in Thailand. Make sure that all your Thai translated Indian documents bear the stamp of the Indian embassy in Thailand.

Required documents:

- Original Indian Marriage Certificate (copy and Thai translation bearing the stamp of the Indian Embassy in Thailand)

- Thai ID and house register of your wife

- Orignal birth certificate of your daughter (copy and Thai translation bearing the stamps of the Indian Embassy in Thailand)

The assignment is not to re-marry here in Thailand but get the already existing marriage legalized and recognized. A Thai who gets divorced is barred from re-marriage for a full year! You would not get a Thai Marriage Certificate but rather YOUR WIFE needs to be registered being married to you which is surely the target to go for.

Additionally: Look for a friendly officier at the Cental Register (advice by a smiling employee there in the past when we needed to get some things straightened out in terms of my daughter whose name was changed many years ago but the document got lost).

Use the occasion to get the legal status of your daughter clarified as well. The day will possibly come that she want to apply for a Thai ID and if you straighten the way already now things will be much easier in the future.

Lots of luck.

[scn]

Thank you so much all of you for your valuable advice.

It is quite strange how these things work! I spoke to another consulate in india and had my wife speak to someone there in thai... they say they will accept an indian marriage certificate!! and both me and our baby can obtain non immigrant o visas.. yippeee.

I also apoke seperately to the other consulate and they are willing to issue an non-imm ED visa based on the letter also!

Are there no defined rules for this!

Anyway makes me glad and thank you so much for your suugestions. Hope this works and if not i will travel to bangkok legalize my marriage and travel to singapore or somehwere near to get my non imm o visa. Wish me luck people.

Again thanks for all the help... couldn't have done with all the alternatives that you have suggested....

scn

[dr_Pat_Pong]

why not come as a tourist, then just go to the amphur where your wife is from and register the marriage?

try and get your marriage certificate translated and certified in thai and then go to a different consulate, if you still can't get your your non immigrant O, enter with a tourist visa and go to the amphur as sugested by caughtintheact. this is a for sure way to get your non immigrant O visa on the next visa run which you should have instead of the non immigrant ED which is only valid while you are in school.

Can you come here on a student visa, and have your wife travel with you, but separately.

travel seperately ?? why, they are on their honeymoon.

Oh Huski ... oh Huski ... ... which one will bring the baby daughter ?? SCN Your marriage papers translated into Thai will be helpful to your cause. It sounds as though you have struck an unhelpful officer. There are Thai Consulates in Kolkata and Mumbai if you are able to deal with them. If you need contact details just ask.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thank you so much all of you for your valuable advice.

It is quite strange how these things work! I spoke to another consulate in india and had my wife speak to someone there in thai... they say they will accept an indian marriage certificate!! and both me and our baby can obtain non immigrant o visas.. yippeee.

I also apoke seperately to the other consulate and they are willing to issue an non-imm ED visa based on the letter also!

Are there no defined rules for this!

Anyway makes me glad and thank you so much for your suugestions. Hope this works and if not i will travel to bangkok legalize my marriage and travel to singapore or somehwere near to get my non imm o visa. Wish me luck people.

Again thanks for all the help... couldn't have done with all the alternatives that you have suggested....

scn

Our postings crossed in the ether. Good for you.

[caughtintheact]

Glad to hear it is working out. I was just about to post that all you need to do is to go to another Thai consulate, apply for a student visa without mentioning your wife. Once you get the student visa, then come to Thailand. Your wife can travel with you on her Thai passport or separately. Then, when you get here, you can register the marriage.

In my experience, Thailand recognizes a marriage between foreigner and Thai up to a point. Before, when a Thai woman married to a foreigner was unable to purchase land not completely owned and paid for before the marriage, it was better not to register the marriage here if you wanted to buy a house, which could be done in the wife's maiden name. The law has been changed so Thai women can buy land in their name after marriage, but cannot leave it to the foreigner. So I am not sure if there is any advantage to being married abroad and not in Thailand, except perhaps that there would be a problem getting divorced here.

Documents:

To get married here, you need the applicable doicuments below (I took this from the U.S. Embassy web site and modified it to leave out the references to US citizens), there might be some differences in what you need from India:

A legal marriage in Thailand consists of both parties registering their marriage in person with the local Thai Amphur (Civil Registry Office).

A. TO MARRY A THAI CITIZEN YOU MUST FOLLOW THESE STEPS:

1. Complete an affidavit at your Embassy *Your embassy may just call it a letter). The form, which should be available upon request, includes all of the information required by relevant Thai law. The form must be completed and notarized at the Embassy.

2. Have the completed affidavit translated.

3. Take the affidavit and translation to:

Legalization Division

Department of Consular Affairs

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

3rd Floor, 123 Chaeng Wattana Road

Tung Song Hong, Laksi District, Bangkok

Tel:(02) 575-1057-8, Fax:(02) 575-1054

4. Take the affidavit and supporting documents to a local Amphur and register yourselves as married. The Amphur will also require the following documents:

a) Your passport;

The Thai citizen's identification card;

c) If either party is under the age of twenty, written permission from the parents (with Thai translation);

d) If either you or your fiance have been previously married the Amphur will want to see proof that prior marriages have been terminated; either divorce or death certificates. These documents if available, should be translated into Thai prior to presentation at the Amphur.

You can also contact your Embassy in Thailand

Contact

Address

Embassy of India

46,Soi 23 (Prasarn Mitr)

Sukhumvit Road

Bangkok-10110

Tel: (662) 258-0300-06

Fax: (662) 258-4627

I couldn't find an email address, and the website http://www.indiaemb.or.th/ was not working this morning - maybe you can get to it later.

[scn]

Thank you everyone... like mentioned earlier maybe we can get an O visa based on our Indian Marriage Certificate.

if not then Sasin has agreed to provide me a new letter addressed to the other consulate and I apply for a ED Visa and do the registration in bangkok.

So one of these should work out. I will be praying and with all your good wishes should work. It is almost as good as a journey to bangkok... but would be well worth if it saves me some trouble.

Should be back on wednesday after the visa! so watch this space. Maybe my experience may be new lesson for others.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Which Consulate was the cooperative one ? For mine, the guy you dealt with in the Thai Embassy was anti-Indian, or he resented you being married to a Thai.

[scn]

Dr. PP, everything in good time!

[et33.com]

may you and your folks be blessed by the buddha

may you and your folks be happy...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Dr. PP, everything in good time!

Was that a complex question ? Or a state secret ?

[scn]

Dr. PP nothing like that, but I thought it would be better to give a complete narration than in bits and pieces and so I waited to get the visa stamped in the passport.

I do not want to speculate on the inclinations or idiosyncrasies of anyone! But this is another classic case of one of the evergreen Murphy's law reasserting itself - "When things can’t go wrong, it will" .

By the way it was not a Thai person in the consul that I was in touch with, but with an Indian working in the Thai embassy. That is the front that I was facing! There could have been a Master and Commander, but then again it would be some speculation.

What beats me I was even willing to apply for an ED visa and take my daughter on a tourist visa and have it converted later on the ubiquitous "visa-run", and that they rejected the letter from Sasin, when in a very similar case Visa has been issued to another student just a year earlier make me a little suspicious. But guess it is all at the discretion of the officer.

But we spoke to the Visa consular at the Embassy and had no problems doing the Visa and in fact they were very helpful. I guess that would be because I had my wife speak to the consular directly. The only question she was specifically asked on the phone was "Do you have indian ancestors? - like were your grandparents Indian?"

After that, It was as simple as traveling all the way to the Embassy, submitting required documents and collecting the Visa the next day. For the knowledge of others in similar situations I submitted all the required documents and all proof of my wife’s Thai identity. I always found it useful to provide all documents and leave nothing uncertain or to the imagination and create a doubt when dealing with people in authority, or avoid making them ask you for anything over and above what you can provide them with. So here is the complete list of documents:

1) Application Forms (Two for me and our baby)

2) Marriage Certificate (Indian)

3) Baby Birth Certificate

4) Copy of Wife’s Thai ID Card

5) Copy of Wife’s Thai House Register

6) Wife’s Thai Passport Copies

7) Photographs 2 Each.

8) Visa Fees.

I also had in reserve my acceptance letter from the university there in thailand, previous academic qualifications and work experience related papers. bank documents, took whatever I thought will help!

I cannot entirely blame the Visa officers at the first Consulate because; it is always true that people who do no wrong sometimes get the brunt of wrongdoings of other. But had they taken a closer look at my credentials they should have been more than happy to oblige.

Thank you all for the precious help and advice.

What I would like to know more is the procedure for Visa extension in Thailand. I will have to stay at least 2 years there to finish my academic endeavors, further to that is not decided. So I am looking for advice in particular to legalize our marriage in Thailand and the legitimacy of our baby. I had applied for and received a single entry non-immigrant ‘o’ visa. Although, not sure if I can afford time to travel out in the first year, my question is when I extend my visa for one year how can I get a multiple entry visa/ re-entry permit? Is there anything more that the 200K/400K Thb that I need for the Visa extensions of both our baby and me?

scn

[dr_Pat_Pong]

As it stands now, just extend the visa each year. As we understand it, you are 'grandfathered' at 200,000 based on present rules.

[caughtintheact]

Sasin will be able to assist in this. They have a lot of experience in extending student visas.

[huski]

Sasin will be able to assist in this.  They have a lot of experience in extending student visas.

caughtintheact, i believe scn was granted a non immigrant O not a ED visa as attempted. his non O can be extended at thai immigration as doctor pp mentioned.

[scn]

Yes I applied for an O Visa and was granted that. As someone suggested why go for an ED visa if I can apply for a O visa? Even though I am not sure at this point if I want to stay beyond the 2 years I have to be there for academic purposes. Infact Bangkok was a choice for study purely based on family matters. So an O visa makes sense!

Any advice on legalizing marriage in thailand and Extension of O visa would be helpful.

[caughtintheact]

Right huski, I missed that one.

For scn, since you have the O visa already, in fact you are coming here as a dependent of a Thai citizen, so the visa renewal process is straight forward and requires practically the same documents...you must go with your wife the last couple of days before your visa expires.

In addition to the documents below you will probably need a letter from your embassy where you attest to the reason you want to stay here. In your case it will be to love with your wife and child.

You will also need a letter from the bank where you have your funds, which you should get on the morning you go to immigration, but not earlier than a day or two before you applu for the visa extension.

I recommend that you also make a trip to immigration a few days before your visa expires to get the latest rules, just in case, along with staying tuned in to this forum for updates.

Tip: I'd only mention school if asked specifically. as the general rule is never volunteer anything as what you volunteer could cause complications. Believe me, the officials prefer it if things are as routine as possible.

Documents:

1) Application Forms (Two for me and our baby) - you get this form at Immigration

2) Marriage Certificate (Indian) - once married here you can start using your Thai marriage certificate, but you should also have a translated copy of the Indian marriage certificate ready in case the immigration people want to see it.

3) Baby Birth Certificate - get this translated into Thai as well

4) Copy of Wife’s Thai ID Card - you will need this

5) Copy of Wife’s Thai House Register - you will need this also

6) Wife’s Thai Passport Copies - you will not need this

7) Photographs 2 Each - I think you will need 2" c 2" for each of you.

8) Visa Fees. B1900

Procedures: Since you will probably extend in Bangkok, here's the procedure.

You go to the Immigration Department on Suan Plu Road. Go to the last door to the right (facing the building)

Turn left as you walk in and look for the signs for South Asian or similar on the windows, and get an application form. Complete it, attach the photo of yourself, take it to the window to pay the fee. Then you will be redirected to another room where they will quiz your wifem and fill out a form. You just sit there and look interested, but don't say anything unless asked. Smile once in a while and don't look like you are under pressure.

When this part of the drill is over, you may be shuffled to a more senior official who will stamp your passport and tell you to come back in 45 days or so. Some people have to return in 45 days twice before they get the remainder of the 1 year extension.

Tip: Whatever happens, never get angry or upset. That makes the officials upset and they can start finding undotted i's and uncrossed t's, find unwritten requirements that you were not told about here, and in general make the experience a miserable one.

Tip: Open your bank account in a bank near Immigration, in case they send you back to the bank for some other documents. You can always open an account elsewhere if you need it, and use your ATM card to access the funds in the bank where you put your "immigration" money.

If you have to have documents copied, there are a number of ships across the street. There is also a clinic or two in the area where you can go for a "physical exam" if so required.

If I've missed anything, I at least know that someone will step right in and correct me.

[caughtintheact]

Whoops, I forgot about the marriage registration.

I do not think you need to register the marriage in Thailand, although the officials at Immigration may tell you to do so. I was told to do it, and never did, and never had any problems.

However, if you feel that you must (and it is pleasing to the parents), a Thai marriage is usually done as follows:

1. A Buddhist ceremony at the home of the bride in the morning with at least 3 monks present (9 is the best number - albeit more costly)

2. A party after the ceremony.

3. The civil registration of the marriage can be done at the district office (amphur) any time after the ceremony (which takes all of about 10-20 minutes). The district office should be in the place where the wife's ID card is issued, but I believe that under some circumstances this may not be required. You will have plenty of time to sort that out when you are here.

[scn]

Quote Caughtintheact "I recommend that you also make a trip to immigration a few days before your visa expires to get the latest rules, just in case, along with staying tuned in to this forum for updates."

From the other posting here is it not better to get the visa extended before July 1st? or do I have to wait till a few days before the visa expires. My understanding is that they extend the visa for a year from the date of entry. Then is it not better to do it as soon as I enter or atleast before the July 1st deadline for the 200000THB in bank qualification?

"Grandfathered" - does this mean for all future or until the law changes I will need to show only 20000 Thb for future extensions?

scn

[huski]

My understanding is that they extend the visa for a year from the date of entry.

this is true

Then is it not better to do it as soon as I enter or atleast before the July 1st deadline for the 200000THB in bank qualification?

yes, however it's always up to the immigration officer, some are being quoted 400k already...BKK immigration seems to be still at 200k for new applicants from recent posts.

"Grandfathered" - does this mean for all future or until the law changes I will need to show only 20000 Thb for future extensions?

grandfathered means for all future "consecutive" extensions.

[scn]

Thank you for all the clarifications huski... you are a pal!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Quote Caughtintheact "I recommend that you also make a trip to immigration a few days before your visa expires to get the latest rules, just in case, along with staying tuned in to this forum for updates."

From the other posting here is it not better to get the visa extended before July 1st? or do I have to wait till a few days before the visa expires. My understanding is that they extend the visa for a year from the date of entry. Then is it not better to do it as soon as I enter or atleast before the July 1st deadline for the 200000THB in bank qualification?

"Grandfathered" - does this mean for all future or until the law changes I will need to show only 20000 Thb for future extensions?

scn

I'm sure that it is just a typo but it is TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND 200,000 baht pre July.

[scn]

I have noted that many time it is the same questions repeating over and over and the FAQ is very superficial. I think a more comprehensive FAQ with different subjects (one idea - based on the different visa categories) and sub divisions will save time and trouble for those who are generous enough to answer them for the rest of us novices.

I do not know to address this to but senoir members like Dr. PP, CaughtInTheAct and Huski can certainly help. I would be willing to put in some effort also.

How about it?

scn

[scn]

Just trying to do my two bit for the community