Suspects in the murder of a 46 year old German man in Samui could walk free on Tuesday

[ClutchClark]

How did the DNA tests come out? Oh... yeah... Thai perps.... never mind. "A rule that is not enforced ceases to be a rule". Seems to apply regarding murder of farangs in Thailand. Many Thais too, of course.

The DNA does not prove murder in this instance.

It simply identifies the weapon that was used to stab the German.

There could be a reasonable explanation why the weapon needed to be used.

Self-defense.

Please answer my questions in post #22. I'm sure i'm not the only one that would like you to clarify exactly what you mean. Thankyou

Please read my posts #17 and #27 since I have already made my point clear.

Secondly, your post #22 is an emotional rant and suggests I have said all sorts of things that any intelligent reader easily understands I did not.

They say breathing into a brown paperbag can help when you are hyper-ventilating.

But its up to you.

[bunuel]

This is another example of tourist not getting justice in thailand wht would the prosecuter leave it this long ?

If I were the defense attorney:

My client was awaiting the arrival of the now deceased German to discuss the deceased continued harassment of his female Thai ladyfriend and employee of the deceased.

The deceased became very belligerent and combative when my client requested the deceased quit sexually harassing my lady friend. My client had to protect himself from the physical aggression of the much larger German man and when in fear of his own life he eventually stabbed the aggressor.

There are no witnesses to the contrary.

-----------

if I recall, the "lady" in question made statements at the time to indicate she was supportive of the Thai male rather than the now deceased German.

Ofcourse, my own opinion on what happened is NOT what I describe above; however, the charge of murder is not as "cut & dry" as some here suggest.

My own opinion, based on the original news article (and we all should know by now not to place much belief in any news article) is that the "lady" was playing both ends. She was leading the German on to improve her position at work and for the good life of restaurants and gifts that comes from dating farang while at the same time playing her old Thai boyfriend who wanted her back. In all too typical fashion, she has nothing to gain by defending a dead German whose wallet is now dry and she now sides with the Thai boyfriend who has much more to now offer than a dead farang.

The prosecution would have to rely heavily on her testimony since the accused friends are the only witnesses and will support him.

My opinion from the beginning is that when the German approached a group of Thai males sitting on his motorcycle in the dark night, he should have had the wisdom to walk away and retrieve the bike the next morning. He was not a tourist, he was a bar owner and lived in Thailand long enough to know the danger of the Thai male mindset.

Excellent post. You are correct, of course, about avoiding direct confrontation with Thais if you are a Farang. There is anothet course of action, however, which was probably available to the bar owner. Ask the Thai bouncers in your employ to go out and teach the rowdy juveniles the facts of life. No need for violence - just shows you know the rules of the Thai game. If your bouncers are in the Thai army, so much the better!

[ClutchClark]

This is another example of tourist not getting justice in thailand wht would the prosecuter leave it this long ?

If I were the defense attorney:

My client was awaiting the arrival of the now deceased German to discuss the deceased continued harassment of his female Thai ladyfriend and employee of the deceased.

The deceased became very belligerent and combative when my client requested the deceased quit sexually harassing my lady friend. My client had to protect himself from the physical aggression of the much larger German man and when in fear of his own life he eventually stabbed the aggressor.

There are no witnesses to the contrary.

-----------

if I recall, the "lady" in question made statements at the time to indicate she was supportive of the Thai male rather than the now deceased German.

Ofcourse, my own opinion on what happened is NOT what I describe above; however, the charge of murder is not as "cut & dry" as some here suggest.

My own opinion, based on the original news article (and we all should know by now not to place much belief in any news article) is that the "lady" was playing both ends. She was leading the German on to improve her position at work and for the good life of restaurants and gifts that comes from dating farang while at the same time playing her old Thai boyfriend who wanted her back. In all too typical fashion, she has nothing to gain by defending a dead German whose wallet is now dry and she now sides with the Thai boyfriend who has much more to now offer than a dead farang.

The prosecution would have to rely heavily on her testimony since the accused friends are the only witnesses and will support him.

My opinion from the beginning is that when the German approached a group of Thai males sitting on his motorcycle in the dark night, he should have had the wisdom to walk away and retrieve the bike the next morning. He was not a tourist, he was a bar owner and lived in Thailand long enough to know the danger of the Thai male mindset.

Excellent post. You are correct, of course, about avoiding direct confrontation with Thais if you are a Farang. There is anothet course of action, however, which was probably available to the bar owner. Ask the Thai bouncers in your employ to go out and teach the rowdy juveniles the facts of life. No need for violence - just shows you know the rules of the Thai game. If your bouncers are in the Thai army, so much the better!

Now there is wisdom in your post.

[technologybytes]

It's interesting that the tone of the article is that these kids will be getting away with murder, however the reality is a little different.

These kids have spent 84 days in prison accused of a crime, yet there is no evidence that they are guilty... of course they should go free.

[manhood]

Well after reading all the many crime acts here in Thailand the only solution is to get a "weapon", use it if necessary!!!!!!!!!!!

No pardon with anybody!

[deecee10]

Where's the re-enactment?

[spidermike007]

Shame on the authorities for releasing these punk freaks. The army has the power to step in, and forbid them from being released if they are serious about reforming the justice system, which is completely broken. Another example of what a "not serious leader" does not do.

[biplanebluey]

its no wonder the tourist numbers are dwindling, are the police really that stupid to not understand what damage is being done to the thai image

Yes I really think they are -----but---. Lets face it,if they can easily come up with evidence that suits them for any particular occasion,and if they can persuade people that they are doing everything right,or if they can use the law that somehow will put them in a good light,then I sometimes think that maybe they have just learned to be very clever.I also believe that the old saying "time is a good healer"plays a big part in all these episodes,and even if the police have made the odd "blue",it will be all forgotten in a few months time and the most important thing is that the tourists will have forgotten it too,and all the people will be back to normal and earning lots of money again. What a happy ending !!!!!

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

Was just a little accident, they surely did not want to kill the farang, they just need to defend themselves after they were offended by the farang.

[arrowsdawdle]

This is another example of tourist not getting justice in thailand wht would the prosecuter leave it this long ?

If I were the defense attorney:

My client was awaiting the arrival of the now deceased German to discuss the deceased continued harassment of his female Thai ladyfriend and employee of the deceased.

The deceased became very belligerent and combative when my client requested the deceased quit sexually harassing my lady friend. My client had to protect himself from the physical aggression of the much larger German man and when in fear of his own life he eventually stabbed the aggressor.

There are no witnesses to the contrary.

-----------

if I recall, the "lady" in question made statements at the time to indicate she was supportive of the Thai male rather than the now deceased German.

Ofcourse, my own opinion on what happened is NOT what I describe above; however, the charge of murder is not as "cut & dry" as some here suggest.

My own opinion, based on the original news article (and we all should know by now not to place much belief in any news article) is that the "lady" was playing both ends. She was leading the German on to improve her position at work and for the good life of restaurants and gifts that comes from dating farang while at the same time playing her old Thai boyfriend who wanted her back. In all too typical fashion, she has nothing to gain by defending a dead German whose wallet is now dry and she now sides with the Thai boyfriend who has much more to now offer than a dead farang.

The prosecution would have to rely heavily on her testimony since the accused friends are the only witnesses and will support him.

My opinion from the beginning is that when the German approached a group of Thai males sitting on his motorcycle in the dark night, he should have had the wisdom to walk away and retrieve the bike the next morning. He was not a tourist, he was a bar owner and lived in Thailand long enough to know the danger of the Thai male mindset.

Excellent post. You are correct, of course, about avoiding direct confrontation with Thais if you are a Farang. There is anothet course of action, however, which was probably available to the bar owner. Ask the Thai bouncers in your employ to go out and teach the rowdy juveniles the facts of life. No need for violence - just shows you know the rules of the Thai game. If your bouncers are in the Thai army, so much the better!

Now there is wisdom in your post.

Wisdom indeed, but perhaps unnecessary wisdom when you could go to the central police headquarters and report the bike stolen and give them the vicinity and some tea money to get it back for you.

[ClutchClark]

If I were the defense attorney:

My client was awaiting the arrival of the now deceased German to discuss the deceased continued harassment of his female Thai ladyfriend and employee of the deceased.

The deceased became very belligerent and combative when my client requested the deceased quit sexually harassing my lady friend. My client had to protect himself from the physical aggression of the much larger German man and when in fear of his own life he eventually stabbed the aggressor.

There are no witnesses to the contrary.

-----------

if I recall, the "lady" in question made statements at the time to indicate she was supportive of the Thai male rather than the now deceased German.

Ofcourse, my own opinion on what happened is NOT what I describe above; however, the charge of murder is not as "cut & dry" as some here suggest.

My own opinion, based on the original news article (and we all should know by now not to place much belief in any news article) is that the "lady" was playing both ends. She was leading the German on to improve her position at work and for the good life of restaurants and gifts that comes from dating farang while at the same time playing her old Thai boyfriend who wanted her back. In all too typical fashion, she has nothing to gain by defending a dead German whose wallet is now dry and she now sides with the Thai boyfriend who has much more to now offer than a dead farang.

The prosecution would have to rely heavily on her testimony since the accused friends are the only witnesses and will support him.

My opinion from the beginning is that when the German approached a group of Thai males sitting on his motorcycle in the dark night, he should have had the wisdom to walk away and retrieve the bike the next morning. He was not a tourist, he was a bar owner and lived in Thailand long enough to know the danger of the Thai male mindset.

Excellent post. You are correct, of course, about avoiding direct confrontation with Thais if you are a Farang. There is anothet course of action, however, which was probably available to the bar owner. Ask the Thai bouncers in your employ to go out and teach the rowdy juveniles the facts of life. No need for violence - just shows you know the rules of the Thai game. If your bouncers are in the Thai army, so much the better!

Now there is wisdom in your post.

Wisdom indeed, but perhaps unnecessary wisdom when you could go to the central police headquarters and report the bike stolen and give them the vicinity and some tea money to get it back for you.

If I recall the original incident correctly, the bike was not being stolen.

The hooligans were simply sitting on the bike waiting for the German to return so they could have a "friendly" discussion.

OK, since sarcasm is often lost on this crowd. They were waiting for him so they could rough him up. Was murder intended? Who knows? But such things can quickly escalate when alcohol is involved.

[arrowsdawdle]

This crowd, eh?

[ArfurMaggot]

Lesson ,be polite at all times ,and dont give in to anger or annoyance ,it may cost you your life .

And when, exactly, do you stop walking away, Anto? Do you think we should just be polite to ISIS?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

- Edmund_Burke

There is already enough, "turning a blind eye" being done by the police here.

[luudee]

There is no *justice* in Thailand. Only if you have money or international

pressure persist will they pretend to "do something". The police are a joke ...

They should be ashamed to call them self's "Police" ...

[PoorSucker]

Family members too powerful?

No, not local punks.

[DekDaeng]

its no wonder the tourist numbers are dwindling, are the police really that stupid to not understand what damage is being done to the thai image

The pressure to avenge loss of face is so intense that they (both perps and prosecutors) cannot comprehend that other factors might be really worth considering.

Thai tourist spots are very likely to become ghost towns unless things change.

Didn't we get a new PM not so long ago, vowing to change 'the system'?

Where is he?

[Number 3]

Family members too powerful?

No, not local punks.

Look harder friend.

You may uncover mafia relatives behind this blockade of justice.

Again.

[HeijoshinCool]

If I recall the original incident correctly, the bike was not being stolen.

The hooligans were simply sitting on the bike waiting for the German to return so they could have a "friendly" discussion.

OK, since sarcasm is often lost on this crowd. They were waiting for him so they could rough him up. Was murder intended? Who knows? But such things can quickly escalate when alcohol is involved.

.

If that is the case, in California and other states, that would be called, Lying in Wait, would be evidence of intent, allowing the prosecutor the ability to raise the classification of the murder charge to first degree. Doesn't matter if they intended to kill him, or not.

One more nail in their coffin.

[srchino]

The Gulf of Thailand.... avoid.

[PoorSucker]

Family members too powerful?

No, not local punks.

Look harder friend.

You may uncover mafia relatives behind this blockade of justice.

Again.

Lived here for 10 years, I know the local families.

[makkam]

They fled the crime scene without knowing that the victim was dead, Pol.Col. Satit said.

Typical thai way of saying, "I didn't know, he was dead...."

Yeah you'll not see shitbags walk away from justice in the West through technicalities, lack of evidence/witnesses/corroboration etc.

We always get it right and the Thais always do their utmost to get it wrong.

If Thailand and Thais are so morally irredeemable, put yourself out of your misery and do us all a favour...buy a one way ticket back to your own little. 'jerusalem'.

[ArfurMaggot]

If I recall the original incident correctly, the bike was not being stolen.

The hooligans were simply sitting on the bike waiting for the German to return so they could have a "friendly" discussion.

OK, since sarcasm is often lost on this crowd. They were waiting for him so they could rough him up. Was murder intended? Who knows? But such things can quickly escalate when alcohol is involved.

.

If that is the case, in California and other states, that would be called, Lying in Wait, would be evidence of intent, allowing the prosecutor the ability to raise the classification of the murder charge to first degree. Doesn't matter if they intended to kill him, or not.

One more nail in their coffin.

It has been said many times before on these forums and it will certainly be said again....... this is not California, HeijoshinCool. This is a lawless island in an unstable, socially backward, corruptly governed country.

[Number 3]

Family members too powerful?

No, not local punks.

Look harder friend.

You may uncover mafia relatives behind this blockade of justice.

Again.

Lived here for 10 years, I know the local families.

Then you are most certainly aware too. If you are not- look again my friend.

[carmine]

They fled the crime scene without knowing that the victim was dead, Pol.Col. Satit said.

Typical thai way of saying, "I didn't know, he was dead...."

Yeah you'll not see shitbags walk away from justice in the West through technicalities, lack of evidence/witnesses/corroboration etc.

We always get it right and the Thais always do their utmost to get it wrong.

If Thailand and Thais are so morally irredeemable, put yourself out of your misery and do us all a favour...buy a one way ticket back to your own little. 'jerusalem'.

Yawn.

[Tropicalevo]

There is no *justice* in Thailand. Only if you have money or international

pressure persist will they pretend to "do something". The police are a joke ...

They should be ashamed to call them self's "Police" ...

A bit of an emotional exaggeration methinks.

[Baerboxer]

If I recall the original incident correctly, the bike was not being stolen.

The hooligans were simply sitting on the bike waiting for the German to return so they could have a "friendly" discussion.

OK, since sarcasm is often lost on this crowd. They were waiting for him so they could rough him up. Was murder intended? Who knows? But such things can quickly escalate when alcohol is involved.

.

If that is the case, in California and other states, that would be called, Lying in Wait, would be evidence of intent, allowing the prosecutor the ability to raise the classification of the murder charge to first degree. Doesn't matter if they intended to kill him, or not.

One more nail in their coffin.

This ain't California or Kansas Toto.

[reggaebkk]

So killing a farang is ok, if its not a threat to tourism then its not worse than killing a dog. Lets just not try to jail kids who are just cleaning the streets... After all...

[Baerboxer]

This is another example of tourist not getting justice in thailand wht would the prosecuter leave it this long ?

If I were the defense attorney:

My client was awaiting the arrival of the now deceased German to discuss the deceased continued harassment of his female Thai ladyfriend and employee of the deceased.

The deceased became very belligerent and combative when my client requested the deceased quit sexually harassing my lady friend. My client had to protect himself from the physical aggression of the much larger German man and when in fear of his own life he eventually stabbed the aggressor.

There are no witnesses to the contrary.

-----------

if I recall, the "lady" in question made statements at the time to indicate she was supportive of the Thai male rather than the now deceased German.

Ofcourse, my own opinion on what happened is NOT what I describe above; however, the charge of murder is not as "cut & dry" as some here suggest.

My own opinion, based on the original news article (and we all should know by now not to place much belief in any news article) is that the "lady" was playing both ends. She was leading the German on to improve her position at work and for the good life of restaurants and gifts that comes from dating farang while at the same time playing her old Thai boyfriend who wanted her back. In all too typical fashion, she has nothing to gain by defending a dead German whose wallet is now dry and she now sides with the Thai boyfriend who has much more to now offer than a dead farang.

The prosecution would have to rely heavily on her testimony since the accused friends are the only witnesses and will support him.

My opinion from the beginning is that when the German approached a group of Thai males sitting on his motorcycle in the dark night, he should have had the wisdom to walk away and retrieve the bike the next morning. He was not a tourist, he was a bar owner and lived in Thailand long enough to know the danger of the Thai male mindset.

Good post. Thanks for the detail. I hadn't realized the young lady's involvement with the accused from the original reports. Thought they just happened to be on his bike, not actually waiting to discuss the woman with him.

If that was the case then I can understand the prosecutor's reluctance to proceed. Confessions can be recanted at trial in Thailand. It would be the woman's word against the accused and his friends. If she supported their version, game over. You can imagine it being played out as per your scenario. dressed up as self defense and an accident. They were only trying to protect a poor harassed Thai lady from the clutches of yet another dirty old farang etc etc.

Getting on the wrong side of Thais is never a good idea here, especially where women are concerned.

[RustBucket]

How did the DNA tests come out? Oh... yeah... Thai perps.... never mind. "A rule that is not enforced ceases to be a rule". Seems to apply regarding murder of farangs in Thailand. Many Thais too, of course.

The DNA does not prove murder in this instance.

It simply identifies the weapon that was used to stab the German.

There could be a reasonable explanation why the weapon needed to be used.

Self-defense.

Yeah, right. There were only five of them and the guy was unarmed. So stabbing him was more than justified.

Hate to say it mate, but your defense of any Thai accused of any crime, borders on delusion. Keep it up if you want, it's good to have alternative opinions aired, but you've reached the point of making yourself look a bit silly, and it reduces the effect of any valid points you might try to make.

Don't bother responding to ClutchClark. He is simply trolling to get you to respond.

He has similar pro-Thai views on the Koh Tao murders. He is about as anti-westerner as you can get.

Some members in this community don't really contribute to the discussion, they merely abuse the board for their own little mindless entertainment in trying to upset as many other members as they can.

Unfortunately every forum has them.

[carmine]

Oh i thought thought he simply had zero moral backbone! Just a boring troll then........