Two Myanmar men accused of murders on Koh Tao tortured, rights panel says

[A1Str8]

So what about the cops who tortured them? Are they from Myanmar because i am sure a thai would never do something like this.

[Bung]

Ive read a couple of books on Westerners experiences in thai jails and believe me, torture is just another day at the office for the RTP.

[Dogmatix]

So what about the cops who tortured them? Are they from Myanmar because i am sure a thai would never do something like this.

No, but the interpreter, who is also accused, is.

[malc419]

Lets hope justice is done and fair. Torture is wrong in any culture especially to gain confessions from the innocent.

I personally hope that have the right people who committed the crime. As they need to be out of the society.

But torture is still wrong. Possitive proof is by far the best answer, be it by scientific or from reliable witnesses.

Then let the justice system make the punishment fit the crime.

[sweatalot]

What's next, arrest the police officers who do their job in closing the case? Stupid isn't it. Punish the good guys, while criminals walk free, just like Thaksin.

For your information, Thaksin is no criminal, your just a puppet for what you think people think, mostly farangs who don't know shit about what really happened in Thailand.

He has been convicted - so he is a criminal. A convicted criminal.

Not to mention the crimes that have not been to court yet.

The war on drugs or the killing of the muslims in the south e.g.

[catsanddogs]

Daily Mirror today:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thai-beach-murders-burmese-suspects-4641123

[cookee68]

But has any of this torture been proved yet? we always cry out for proof, but is this hear say by the 2 BB, or is there proof of this?

[thailandchilli]

But has any of this torture been proved yet? we always cry out for proof, but is this hear say by the 2 BB, or is there proof of this?

The Human Rights Commission has stated there was, the RTP have refused 4 times to meet them and discuss it. Even if no hard proof then the likelyhood is high

[cookee68]

I spotted an interesting article in Thai Rath over the week end, the gist of which I summarize below for the benefit of those who cannot read Thai.

"After the Koh Tao murders a crazy conspiracy developed with a view to making Thai people bitterly hate Thai police. They have repeatedly incited their friends to believe that Thai police looked for Burmese scapegoats to get forced confessions. After the dust had settled and the social media idiots all returned to America, it turned out after 3 DNA tests that the police were right.

Scotland Yard and the British Ambassador, who spent a long time engrossed in the case, asked to see all the details of the DNA tests of 300 people on Koh Tao and the taking of samples. All the Scotland Yard aunties and the British ambassador were so impressed that they asked the Thai police to come to the UK to train their own police. Even more important than the praise heaped on Thai police by the Brits was their admission that the Thai police used more advanced equipment and techniques in the investigation than their own.

Once the imaginative fantasies are over, hopefully people will stop criticizing Thai police."

Words fail me....................my fear is that if this is what the authorities are influencing the Thai Rath to report then its obvious that they have no intention to change course in this and the B2 are destined to pay no matter what

Yes, that quite right because I assume no Thai person would be indicted/sentenced for killing a non-thai. See the case of the murdered German on Samui, where the Thai suspects are waiting out their 84 days before they're freed. It's not as if there's no evidence, there's plenty enough plus a confession, but it ain't going to happen. To give me a ray of hope that justice will be served, has there ever been a Thai incarcerated for killing a non-Thai?

The Thai Rath article comes from an alternative universe, one of which posters on here will never visit.

I don't know whether the Thai Rath article was written at the urging of the Thai police or not. But it seems to me that, if what they say is true, there should be no need for articles like that in their support. If they did a great job, let their actions and results speak for themselves. The case will be wrapped up quickly with overwhelming evidence of the 2B's guilt in addition to the DNA evidence, which is provided entirely by the police themselves without independent corroboration, and the court and the public will be convinced and eternally grateful to the BiB for removing two callous killers from the streets for good. Also why not let the British police and ambassador speak for themselves? If they were so impressed by the police investigation and superior technology, they will probably say so in good time and we will soon read about a Thai police delegation flying to the UK to provide training to Scotland Yard and regional forces along with sales of Thai technology. It will be far more convincing from the mouths of the UK police and the ambassador than from Thai media which can be bought and sold on a daily basis.

Has the British police released a statement of their own findings on this case yet, or only the Thai media

[cookee68]

But has any of this torture been proved yet? we always cry out for proof, but is this hear say by the 2 BB, or is there proof of this?

The Human Rights Commission has stated there was, the RTP have refused 4 times to meet them and discuss it. Even if no hard proof then the likelyhood is high

I understand, but likely hood is not a defence, and didn't I read somewhere that the TRP already said they would not meet or discus this with the HRC, due to some kind of affecting the case or something like that, I am all for getting the right people, but there is more evidence against the 2 BB than there is on hear say, if that makes sense, Because it is human response to deny an act that can harm you. But we will see in time what is really what.

[thailandchilli]

But has any of this torture been proved yet? we always cry out for proof, but is this hear say by the 2 BB, or is there proof of this?

The Human Rights Commission has stated there was, the RTP have refused 4 times to meet them and discuss it. Even if no hard proof then the likelyhood is high

I understand, but likely hood is not a defence, and didn't I read somewhere that the TRP already said they would not meet or discus this with the HRC, due to some kind of affecting the case or something like that, I am all for getting the right people, but there is more evidence against the 2 BB than there is on hear say, if that makes sense, Because it is human response to deny an act that can harm you. But we will see in time what is really what.

Its an important concern that will be brought into the defense case by their lawyers. The (tainted) evidence against them is currently insufficient hence the waiting game and the prosecutors wanting more evidence to be 'fixed'

Edited November 17, 2014 by thailandchilli

[atyclb]

If you think that placing a plastic bag over your head does not amount to torture, you really should try it sometime.

There are about 300.000 victims of the Khmer Rouge (amongst whom my father in Law) who were tortured and killed this way. My wife can testify to this as she was was forced to watch at the time.

Agree with you 100%.

At times reading some tv posters "brain dead analyses and conclusions" can seem like torture.

Edited November 17, 2014 by atyclb

[Artisi]

But has any of this torture been proved yet? we always cry out for proof, but is this hear say by the 2 BB, or is there proof of this?

The Human Rights Commission has stated there was, the RTP have refused 4 times to meet them and discuss it. Even if no hard proof then the likelyhood is high

I understand, but likely hood is not a defence, and didn't I read somewhere that the TRP already said they would not meet or discus this with the HRC, due to some kind of affecting the case or something like that, I am all for getting the right people, but there is more evidence against the 2 BB than there is on hear say, if that makes sense, Because it is human response to deny an act that can harm you. But we will see in time what is really what.

Its an important concern that will be brought into the defense case by their lawyers. The (tainted) evidence against them is currently insufficient hence the waiting game and the prosecutors wanting more evidence to be 'fixed'

Quote. ..... hence the waiting game and the prosecutors wanting more evidence to be 'fixed'.Unquote

Guess you can back this up with a link or something more concrete than your fantasy.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Artisi

[thailandchilli]

@ArtisiQuote. ..... hence the waiting game and the prosecutors wanting more evidence to be 'fixed'.Unquote

Guess you can back this up with a link or something more concrete than your fantasy.

Yes plenty but I'm not going to spoon feed you, if you don't believe me keep your eyes closed and don't bother looking for the links

[Artisi]

What's next, arrest the police officers who do their job in closing the case? Stupid isn't it. Punish the good guys, while criminals walk free, just like Thaksin.

For your information, Thaksin is no criminal, your just a puppet for what you think people think, mostly farangs who don't know shit about what really happened in Thailand.

He has been convicted - so he is a criminal. A convicted criminal.

Not to mention the crimes that have not been to court yet.

The war on drugs or the killing of the muslims in the south e.g.

You need to ignore the idiot fringe and not even thinking about any reply to them.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Artisi

[greenchair]

Still no indictment. Hmmm,

[beammeup]

"We haven't been to Koh Tao. People who have been there tell us that in fact security cameras were widely available but after the crimes happened, no one knew where recordings from those cameras are. Those who agree to talk us don't dare to give much information. And they prefer to talk in a place outside Koh Tao," she said.

I think this part of the report is very interesting.

I also do wonder where are the recordings from the CCTV.......

transam: So these two Burmese guys went and "sorted" all the cctv stuff ..

The only reason for the lack of CCTV recordings is that someone has obliterated them/hidden them/whatever. Any reasonable person would assume that it was deliberate to cover up identifying possible suspects. Two probable sources: the powerful families or the RTP, or both.

Logically (from the absence of CCTV recordings), the B2 cannot be involved in their destruction, and even if they were at the crime scene, there are others also.

Did it ever occur to you that possibly the police have the tapes as evidence?

[Artisi]

@ArtisiQuote. ..... hence the waiting game and the prosecutors wanting more evidence to be 'fixed'.Unquote

Guess you can back this up with a link or something more concrete than your fantasy.

Yes plenty but I'm not going to spoon feed you, if you don't believe me keep your eyes closed and don't bother looking for the links

I don't need spoon feeding nor are my eyes closed - however I would still like to hear your version how the prosecutors are asking for the evidence to be "fixed" - not corrected, expanded, made clearer, but "fixed", with "fixed" in this usage meaning falsified.

[thailandchilli]

@ArtisiQuote. ..... hence the waiting game and the prosecutors wanting more evidence to be 'fixed'.Unquote

Guess you can back this up with a link or something more concrete than your fantasy.

Yes plenty but I'm not going to spoon feed you, if you don't believe me keep your eyes closed and don't bother looking for the links

I don't need spoon feeding nor are my eyes closed - however I would still like to hear your version how the prosecutors are asking for the evidence to be "fixed" - not corrected, expanded, made clearer, but "fixed", with "fixed" in this usage meaning falsified.

http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/14652-thai-police-get-more-time-to-fix-flaws-in-koh-tao-murders-case

[Local Drunk]

I see... What evidence have they provided to support their claim? Anyone can be accused of anything at anytime, be it the police or the defendants in this case. Facts seem to be missing on both sides of this case.

[Local Drunk]

"We haven't been to Koh Tao. People who have been there tell us that in fact security cameras were widely available but after the crimes happened, no one knew where recordings from those cameras are. Those who agree to talk us don't dare to give much information. And they prefer to talk in a place outside Koh Tao," she said.

I think this part of the report is very interesting.

I also do wonder where are the recordings from the CCTV.......

transam: So these two Burmese guys went and "sorted" all the cctv stuff ..

The only reason for the lack of CCTV recordings is that someone has obliterated them/hidden them/whatever. Any reasonable person would assume that it was deliberate to cover up identifying possible suspects. Two probable sources: the powerful families or the RTP, or both.

Logically (from the absence of CCTV recordings), the B2 cannot be involved in their destruction, and even if they were at the crime scene, there are others also.

Did it ever occur to you that possibly the police have the tapes as evidence?

No it didn't, because the public has already prejudged and convicted a suspect in the court of social media. God help us all.

[Artisi]

@ArtisiQuote. ..... hence the waiting game and the prosecutors wanting more evidence to be 'fixed'.Unquote

Guess you can back this up with a link or something more concrete than your fantasy.

Yes plenty but I'm not going to spoon feed you, if you don't believe me keep your eyes closed and don't bother looking for the links

I don't need spoon feeding nor are my eyes closed - however I would still like to hear your version how the prosecutors are asking for the evidence to be "fixed" - not corrected, expanded, made clearer, but "fixed", with "fixed" in this usage meaning falsified.

http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/14652-thai-police-get-more-time-to-fix-flaws-in-koh-tao-murders-case

Lets face facts, asking to fix flaws is not asking for evidence to be "fixed" (as in falsifying) as you are purposely and knowingly implying in your post. This is quite evident by the use of the inverted comma's used in your post, ie., "fixed".

[englishoak]

"We haven't been to Koh Tao. People who have been there tell us that in fact security cameras were widely available but after the crimes happened, no one knew where recordings from those cameras are. Those who agree to talk us don't dare to give much information. And they prefer to talk in a place outside Koh Tao," she said.

I think this part of the report is very interesting.

I also do wonder where are the recordings from the CCTV.......

transam: So these two Burmese guys went and "sorted" all the cctv stuff ..

The only reason for the lack of CCTV recordings is that someone has obliterated them/hidden them/whatever. Any reasonable person would assume that it was deliberate to cover up identifying possible suspects. Two probable sources: the powerful families or the RTP, or both.

Logically (from the absence of CCTV recordings), the B2 cannot be involved in their destruction, and even if they were at the crime scene, there are others also.

Did it ever occur to you that possibly the police have the tapes as evidence?

No it didn't, because the public has already prejudged and convicted a suspect in the court of social media. God help us all.

You mean the same social media that hasnt been buying the official stitch up line the RTP have been trying to force like keystone cops since day one ?

You mean the same social media asking questions when even the PM stated their guilt and congratulated the RTP before even a charge has been made ?

You mean the same public how have to put up with the lies corruption and BS of the RTP every day, have had enough and actually did something while you were on your barstool ?

If you want to talk about prejudged and convicted then yes they had been by the RTP and the establishment before any fair trial ....paraded as freshly shaven prisoners threatened and made to look as guilty as heck before ever having been on trial. That social media has stopped them in their tracks, well done working that out after all this time.

PS god my old son has nothing to do with justice in Thailand ... Money is the god here

Edited November 17, 2014 by englishoak

[thailandchilli]

@ArtisiQuote. ..... hence the waiting game and the prosecutors wanting more evidence to be 'fixed'.Unquote

Guess you can back this up with a link or something more concrete than your fantasy.

Yes plenty but I'm not going to spoon feed you, if you don't believe me keep your eyes closed and don't bother looking for the links

I don't need spoon feeding nor are my eyes closed - however I would still like to hear your version how the prosecutors are asking for the evidence to be "fixed" - not corrected, expanded, made clearer, but "fixed", with "fixed" in this usage meaning falsified.

http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/14652-thai-police-get-more-time-to-fix-flaws-in-koh-tao-murders-case

Lets face facts, asking to fix flaws is not asking for evidence to be "fixed" (as in falsifying) as you are purposely and knowingly implying in your post. This is quite evident by the use of the inverted comma's used in your post, ie., "fixed".

Really, perhaps you make assumptions on my behalf

[Number 3]

I spotted an interesting article in Thai Rath over the week end, the gist of which I summarize below for the benefit of those who cannot read Thai.

"After the Koh Tao murders a crazy conspiracy developed with a view to making Thai people bitterly hate Thai police. They have repeatedly incited their friends to believe that Thai police looked for Burmese scapegoats to get forced confessions. After the dust had settled and the social media idiots all returned to America, it turned out after 3 DNA tests that the police were right.

Scotland Yard and the British Ambassador, who spent a long time engrossed in the case, asked to see all the details of the DNA tests of 300 people on Koh Tao and the taking of samples. All the Scotland Yard aunties and the British ambassador were so impressed that they asked the Thai police to come to the UK to train their own police. Even more important than the praise heaped on Thai police by the Brits was their admission that the Thai police used more advanced equipment and techniques in the investigation than their own.

Once the imaginative fantasies are over, hopefully people will stop criticizing Thai police."

Words fail me....................my fear is that if this is what the authorities are influencing the Thai Rath to report then its obvious that they have no intention to change course in this and the B2 are destined to pay no matter what

Thai journalism is akin to Thai politics - propaganda, hogwash, bare faced rubbish and embarrassing.

What Condescending tripe that makes a farce and scapegoats mind you of the Brits and the Yanks.

What did the yanks do in all this by the by? Their involvement seems to have been lost on me.

[yougivemebaby]

Pornpen Khongkachonkiet, who also sits on the NHRC subcommittee, said the suspects had been detained around October 1 and 2, but her team first met them on October 13..

Torture will be very hard to prove.

One thing that wont be. is the fact the police took these suspects to a secret location, not a police station, to be tortured interrogated. Against Thai law. The suspects were also denied their right to counsel during their torture interrogation and for nearly 2 weeks after. Also against Thai law.

Its not hard to figure out why the police broke these laws now is it.

According to Thai law??

[sweatalot]

"We haven't been to Koh Tao. People who have been there tell us that in fact security cameras were widely available but after the crimes happened, no one knew where recordings from those cameras are. Those who agree to talk us don't dare to give much information. And they prefer to talk in a place outside Koh Tao," she said.

I think this part of the report is very interesting.

I also do wonder where are the recordings from the CCTV.......

transam: So these two Burmese guys went and "sorted" all the cctv stuff ..

The only reason for the lack of CCTV recordings is that someone has obliterated them/hidden them/whatever. Any reasonable person would assume that it was deliberate to cover up identifying possible suspects. Two probable sources: the powerful families or the RTP, or both.

Logically (from the absence of CCTV recordings), the B2 cannot be involved in their destruction, and even if they were at the crime scene, there are others also.

Did it ever occur to you that possibly the police have the tapes as evidence?

may be evidence that shows the innocence of the B2 and also shows the true murderers?

Wouldn't this explain why they are holding it back?

[thailandchilli]

Actually its already been reported that the RTP were unable to get all the cctv as it did not belong to them yep it belongs to the 'family'

There are cctv cameras pointing directly onto the beach, for some strange reason they were not working that night, so says the 'family'

[Willy Eckerslike]

But has any of this torture been proved yet? we always cry out for proof, but is this hear say by the 2 BB, or is there proof of this?

The Human Rights Commission has stated there was, the RTP have refused 4 times to meet them and discuss it. Even if no hard proof then the likelyhood is high

BANGKOK: -- Two Myanmar men facing charges of murdering British tourists on Koh Tao were tortured, according to the ongoing probe by a subcommittee of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC).

If police representatives fail to show up today to provide explanations on the alleged torture, the subcommittee will conclude its probe that way and report the issue to the NHRC.

That will be 5 times unless they turned up today, does anybody know if they did?

[seahorse]

Daily Mirror today:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thai-beach-murders-burmese-suspects-4641123

From the article...

The National Human Rights Commission says it has also come across a conspiracy of silence over the murders.

.Sometimes theories turn out to be correct. Then they are realities.