Australia: Pauline Hanson returns to One Nation and familiar theme

[KarenBravo]

<p>Bit surprised she couldn't find a place amongst this bunch of gala's but then again.... This is the current list of registered political parties. It shows the dates of recent new registrations.

Australian sex party would get my vote.

So......yer inter sheep then are yer mate?

Don't fergit yer wellies......

[ABCer]

This discussion like many other cases on TV is taking an ugly shape.

First, it moved away from the OP.

Second, it has taken a form of personal bickering and clumsy attempts to denigrate the people with different opinions.

Third, with very few exceptions it substitutes remarks on topic with generalities reflecting either misunderstanding or deliberate distortion of facts.

About my posts:

Nowhere did I praise Pauline Hanson's intelligence. As a matter of fact I delicately hinted on her being 'not smart'.

I did however praised her courage - to say what she thinks, to go to jail for this and to eventually win.

I wished her success and welcomed her return to politics. Do not think she will go far, but surely she will be more popular after her battles and exposure.

Unfortunately most posters tend to deliberately distort the facts or simply are not capable of understanding them.

Never in her statements did I find things she was accused of: Nazism, Racism, Phobias, etc. "One Nation" - speaks for itself.

She was trying to say - "where you come from is irrelevant; your religion is irrelevant; your colour is irrelevant - as long as you honestly want to become an Australian".

Perhaps she wasn't doing this smartly enough. This is not a reason to put a person in jail. Not in Australia. $6,000,000 speaks loud enough.

Australia is a country of migrants ( some clumsy joker thinks of convicts and he didn't like me not liking his joke). This is what Australians are made of.

Now, how many of TODAY'S migrants want to assimilate? To become Australians? To live the Australian way? To uphold Australian values? And to enrich the common cultural pot by doing so?

I am not sure, but I know this much: -

There are certain groups that want Australia to change to their image, their liking, their Religion, their Laws.

I say, - no! NO! It is illogical and unfair. These groups should be not allowed in. Or if they are in - they should be sent back.

Now, what is wrong with Pauline Hanson?

Edited November 20, 2014 by ABCer

[samran]

Now, what is wrong with Pauline Hanson?

Plenty.

Like all good redneck leaders, she is relatively smart enough to know not to explicitly say too much, but enough which dog whistles supporters who hold extremist views who equate the right not to be poltical correct as the right to be bastards to people - in this case, based on their colour or creed.

She's good an inciting an environment of intollerance, and is good at expoiting in it.

It is interesting you said:

She has the courage to say true but 'politically incorrect' things.

She said this in parliament, in her earlier days before she learned to dog whistle properly:

"I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians. Between 1984 and 1995, 40% of all migrants coming into this country were of Asian origin. They have their own culture and religion, form ghettos and do not assimilate.

True? Lets see....

First sentence a load of crap.

Second sentence, I'll have to look at the stats, but so what?

Third sentence, absolute crap.

Her comments inspired vitriol. Andrew Denton read out a letter sent to someone in the wake of her speech and her rise to infamy:

The letter included a racist tirade "You are nothing but an ungrateful, treacherous, yellow slanty-eyed little Vietnamese whore. You have... We have had enough of your lot with their drug peddling and crime. So piss off now"

I've already stated my mother was abused publically on the street in the wake of her speech...after being in Australia 30+ years.

She's now moved on to Muslims and African migrants. The new whipping boys and girls of the far right.

She's an opportunist and she doesn't care about the damage she leaves in her wake.

[nontabury]

Now, what is wrong with Pauline Hanson?

Plenty.

Like all good redneck leaders, she is relatively smart enough to know not to explicitly say too much, but enough which dog whistles supporters who hold extremist views who equate the right not to be poltical correct as the right to be bastards to people - in this case, based on their colour or creed.

She's good an inciting an environment of intollerance, and is good at expoiting in it.

It is interesting you said:

She has the courage to say true but 'politically incorrect' things.

She said this in parliament, in her earlier days before she learned to dog whistle properly:

"I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians. Between 1984 and 1995, 40% of all migrants coming into this country were of Asian origin. They have their own culture and religion, form ghettos and do not assimilate.

True? Lets see....

First sentence a load of crap.

Second sentence, I'll have to look at the stats, but so what?

Third sentence, absolute crap.

Her comments inspired vitriol. Andrew Denton read out a letter sent to someone in the wake of her speech and her rise to infamy:

The letter included a racist tirade "You are nothing but an ungrateful, treacherous, yellow slanty-eyed little Vietnamese whore. You have... We have had enough of your lot with their drug peddling and crime. So piss off now"

I've already stated my mother was abused publically on the street in the wake of her speech...after being in Australia 30+ years.

She's now moved on to Muslims and African migrants. The new whipping boys and girls of the far right.

She's an opportunist and she doesn't care about the damage she leaves in her wake.

Sorry to hear your mother was abused public ally for the simple fact she was an Asian immigrant.

But does that mean that All Australians who do not agree with you are wrong, unfortunately you will always find people who go over the top. Same when you Samran came a cropper with the authorities in the UK, it does not mean that all the British people agreed with how that policy was being carried out. I know very little about this lady, but what I do know is that many people in the UK admire the Australian government for at least trying to take control of it's boarders.

[samran]

Now, what is wrong with Pauline Hanson?

Plenty.

Like all good redneck leaders, she is relatively smart enough to know not to explicitly say too much, but enough which dog whistles supporters who hold extremist views who equate the right not to be poltical correct as the right to be bastards to people - in this case, based on their colour or creed.

She's good an inciting an environment of intollerance, and is good at expoiting in it.

It is interesting you said:

She has the courage to say true but 'politically incorrect' things.

She said this in parliament, in her earlier days before she learned to dog whistle properly:

"I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians. Between 1984 and 1995, 40% of all migrants coming into this country were of Asian origin. They have their own culture and religion, form ghettos and do not assimilate.

True? Lets see....

First sentence a load of crap.

Second sentence, I'll have to look at the stats, but so what?

Third sentence, absolute crap.

Her comments inspired vitriol. Andrew Denton read out a letter sent to someone in the wake of her speech and her rise to infamy:

The letter included a racist tirade "You are nothing but an ungrateful, treacherous, yellow slanty-eyed little Vietnamese whore. You have... We have had enough of your lot with their drug peddling and crime. So piss off now"

I've already stated my mother was abused publically on the street in the wake of her speech...after being in Australia 30+ years.

She's now moved on to Muslims and African migrants. The new whipping boys and girls of the far right.

She's an opportunist and she doesn't care about the damage she leaves in her wake.

Sorry to hear your mother was abused public ally for the simple fact she was an Asian immigrant.

But does that mean that All Australians who do not agree with you are wrong, unfortunately you will always find people who go over the top. Same when you Samran came a cropper with the authorities in the UK, it does not mean that all the British people agreed with how that policy was being carried out. I know very little about this lady, but what I do know is that many people in the UK admire the Australian government for at least trying to take control of it's boarders.

Thanks. To be honest I don't hold anything against the Australian governments nor the British governments or peoples. I fully realise that they are actually just a vocal, and sometimes, agressive minority. Home office are a pack of idiots though...

As for what happens with border control, just as long as that isn't conflated with bashing up on certain groups, then I'm fine with that too. I fully realise that if people don't have faith in their borders, then they lose faith with immigration - something I strongly support.

[simple1]

Just to remind people Hanson is endeavouring to obtain a seat in QLD parliament. If she wins a seat she will have zero influence on Federal policy for migrants / security legislation.

All she is trying to do is to gain voters for a seat in QLD parliament by leveraging off anti-Muslim sentiment and gain attention from the media; to repeat with no power to actually support or propose legislation at Federal level.

[Fullstop]

The Chinese first discovered Australia and decided not to stay.

I think a group of Australoids and their pet dingos beat them to it by a few tens of thousands of years.

[frollywolly]

I have lived in Melbourne and travelled to the land down under many times for business.

Sydney and melbourne city centres are these days awash with Asian,Indian, African, Mediterranean faces, restaurants, culture. On some streets you don't pass any Anglo people.

Compared to my first visit thirty years ago Australia is now a more enlightened and pleasant place to visit. I put it down to the diversity.

[Tep]

This discussion like many other cases on TV is taking an ugly shape.

First, it moved away from the OP.

Second, it has taken a form of personal bickering and clumsy attempts to denigrate the people with different opinions.

Third, with very few exceptions it substitutes remarks on topic with generalities reflecting either misunderstanding or deliberate distortion of facts.

About my posts:

Nowhere did I praise Pauline Hanson's intelligence. As a matter of fact I delicately hinted on her being 'not smart'.

I did however praised her courage - to say what she thinks, to go to jail for this and to eventually win.

I wished her success and welcomed her return to politics. Do not think she will go far, but surely she will be more popular after her battles and exposure.

Unfortunately most posters tend to deliberately distort the facts or simply are not capable of understanding them.

Never in her statements did I find things she was accused of: Nazism, Racism, Phobias, etc. "One Nation" - speaks for itself.

She was trying to say - "where you come from is irrelevant; your religion is irrelevant; your colour is irrelevant - as long as you honestly want to become an Australian".

Perhaps she wasn't doing this smartly enough. This is not a reason to put a person in jail. Not in Australia. $6,000,000 speaks loud enough.

Australia is a country of migrants ( some clumsy joker thinks of convicts and he didn't like me not liking his joke). This is what Australians are made of.

Now, how many of TODAY'S migrants want to assimilate? To become Australians? To live the Australian way? To uphold Australian values? And to enrich the common cultural pot by doing so?

I am not sure, but I know this much: -

There are certain groups that want Australia to change to their image, their liking, their Religion, their Laws.

I say, - no! NO! It is illogical and unfair. These groups should be not allowed in. Or if they are in - they should be sent back.

Now, what is wrong with Pauline Hanson?

I am pleased to see the number of posters who disagree with your post in response to the OP. You do not define the Australian way of life for me nor for many that I know and clearly many others who read this forum.

Assimilate? Go talk to Aboriginal people in Homeland communities about assimilation. Immigrants always have and will continue to contribute to Australian society and culture by changing it. It is generational. Evolutionary. You, however require assimilation which is code for conformity to your view of the world and according to your timetable i.e. on immediate entry to Australia it seems; so muslim women are required to throw away their 'oppressive' clothing, Asian people are to take to surfing at Bondi and eating fish and chips or whatever is your notion of the Australian way of life.

There are words for this point of view. These words are accurate. They apply also to Pauline Hanson and her fellow travellers.

[newatthis]

As an Australian, I may agree or disagree with her opinions, but,as an Australian, she is also entitled to express them as loudly as she wants and the people also have the right to either vote for or against her. That is the Aussie way of life and may we always defend it.

[ABCer]

(quote)

"I am pleased to see the number of posters who disagree with your post in response to the OP. You do not define the Australian way of life for me nor for many that I know and clearly many others who read this forum.

Assimilate? Go talk to Aboriginal people in Homeland communities about assimilation. Immigrants always have and will continue to contribute to Australian society and culture by changing it. It is generational. Evolutionary. You, however require assimilation which is code for conformity to your view of the world and according to your timetable i.e. on immediate entry to Australia it seems; so muslim women are required to throw away their 'oppressive' clothing, Asian people are to take to surfing at Bondi and eating fish and chips or whatever is your notion of the Australian way of life.

There are words for this point of view. These words are accurate. They apply also to Pauline Hanson and her fellow travellers."

Dear Tep. Thanks for a nice meaningful response. I like its form yet disagree with you in content.

I did mention the fact that migrants are the essence of Australia.

I did mention the fact that they contribute to the melting pot of our culture.

However:

- 'generational', 'evolutionary', 'assimilation' and 'conformity' - all the terms you are using can and often are taken to extreme considering rate of process in time.

- when you consider the above not as long term slow gradual processes of gradual mutual permeation, you get their opposite -

'gettos', no go zones for the locals, like for example in Sweden.

'revolutions', fast forced changes resented by locals. After all a Revolution may be seen as an Evolution happening overnight.

'confrontations' and sharp divisions between locals and newcomers.

Since you brought up the example of "Muslim women required to throw away their 'oppressive' clothing", let me illustrate the point:

They come to OUR country because they like it BETTER than theirs.

Our country is kind and generous to let them come. But we are not obligated to let them.

It is up to them to bend THEIR laws and customs to conform to OURS not the other way around.

And maybe, just maybe, given long enough time my daughter will decide to wear burqa. And maybe, just maybe I will give up pork.

But so far, as we are today, if I walk into a shop or a bank with a cloth over my face I risk being shot.

I am not racist. I am not against Asians, Negroes, Muslims, Jews or Christians. But I do not want to be forced to live their way. I have my own. It may change but only with time and my consent.

Going back to Pauline Hanson. Right or wrong - SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO SPEAK HER MIND - and this is also our Australian way, unlike some of newcomers or 'Politically Correct' locals may think.

Edited November 21, 2014 by ABCer

[ABCer]

 

Strewth cobbers!

Thought that galah of a Sheila had been shown her place.

The Australian version of Sarah Palin and just as smart.

 

Never mentioned her being smart.

As to the rest - she was acquitted and paid handsomely for injustice.

The fact is - not being smart she was popular. I'm glad she is back. And I'm sure she will be even more popular now.

I think this thread has just proved you don't know what humour is if it got up on its hind-legs and punched you on the nose.

Do you need those funny noises that you hear on Thai TV comedies, so that you know when to laugh?

In other words, a typical Hanson supporter.......

I thought about answering to you.

But if the above IS YOUR SENSE OF HUMOUR, - naaah...

As I said, - been to Canada. Liked it very much. Never saw anybody resembling you. Lucky me...

[KarenBravo]

&nbsp;

&amp;nbsp;

Strewth cobbers!

Thought that galah of a Sheila had been shown her place.

The Australian version of Sarah Palin and just as smart.

&amp;nbsp;

Never mentioned her being smart.

As to the rest - she was acquitted and paid handsomely for injustice.

The fact is - not being smart she was popular. I'm glad she is back. And I'm sure she will be even more popular now.

I think this thread has just proved you don't know what humour is if it got up on its hind-legs and punched you on the nose.

Do you need those funny noises that you hear on Thai TV comedies, so that you know when to laugh?

In other words, a typical Hanson supporter.......

I thought about answering to you.

But if the above IS YOUR SENSE OF HUMOUR, - naaah...

The penny still hasn't dropped, has it?

Thus, proving the truth of my statement.

Edited November 21, 2014 by KarenBravo

[Tep]

(quote)

"I am pleased to see the number of posters who disagree with your post in response to the OP. You do not define the Australian way of life for me nor for many that I know and clearly many others who read this forum.

Assimilate? Go talk to Aboriginal people in Homeland communities about assimilation. Immigrants always have and will continue to contribute to Australian society and culture by changing it. It is generational. Evolutionary. You, however require assimilation which is code for conformity to your view of the world and according to your timetable i.e. on immediate entry to Australia it seems; so muslim women are required to throw away their 'oppressive' clothing, Asian people are to take to surfing at Bondi and eating fish and chips or whatever is your notion of the Australian way of life.

There are words for this point of view. These words are accurate. They apply also to Pauline Hanson and her fellow travellers."

Dear Tep. Thanks for a nice meaningful response. I like its form yet disagree with you in content.

I did mention the fact that migrants are the essence of Australia.

I did mention the fact that they contribute to the melting pot of our culture.

However:

- 'generational', 'evolutionary', 'assimilation' and 'conformity' - all the terms you are using can and often are taken to extreme considering rate of process in time.

- when you consider the above not as long term slow gradual processes of gradual mutual permeation, you get their opposite -

'gettos', no go zones for the locals, like for example in Sweden.

'revolutions', fast forced changes resented by locals. After all a Revolution may be seen as an Evolution happening overnight.

'confrontations' and sharp divisions between locals and newcomers.

Since you brought up the example of "Muslim women required to throw away their 'oppressive' clothing", let me illustrate the point:

They come to OUR country because they like it BETTER than theirs.

Our country is kind and generous to let them come. But we are not obligated to let them.

It is up to them to bend THEIR laws and customs to conform to OURS not the other way around.

And maybe, just maybe, given long enough time my daughter will decide to wear burqa. And maybe, just maybe I will give up pork.

But so far, as we are today, if I walk into a shop or a bank with a cloth over my face I risk being shot.

I am not racist. I am not against Asians, Negroes, Muslims, Jews or Christians. But I do not want to be forced to live their way. I have my own. It may change but only with time and my consent.

Going back to Pauline Hanson. Right or wrong - SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO SPEAK HER MIND - and this is also our Australian way, unlike some of newcomers or 'Politically Correct' locals may think.

This thread is slipping in rankings. Let's hope this disinterest is a sign of Hanson's irrelevance. Since you took the time to elaborate your thoughts in response to my comments, then I thought it would be respectful to do likewise. I will go from bottom up.

I cannot see any poster saying that anyone does not have the right to express their opinion. I don't think I have said this. The objection is to the content of that opinion. Accusing detractors of trying to deny any freedom of expression is a bit of a scurrilous bit of rhetoric I think.

You say you are not racist. I will take this at face value. It is easy to slip into such accusations. I grew up racist. It was inculcated in me by good old lower middle class, aspirational, British bourgeois values through my maternal line. I never saw an Aboriginal person who was not drunk in the public park, nor an Asian person until my university days. The ethnic mix in my area of Australia was 2nd generation Greeks and Italians working their market gardens. So I was exposed to cultural diversity and the angst of bicultural teenagers who were my friends and classmates. Abandoning my racist youth required active and overt effort. It is an ongoing process.

So then what is left of your post? What can I attack? Possibly your idea of acculturation. You require conformity on those incoming to Australia and reject any attempt to acculturate you. You claim Right of Being Here Before the Others? I think you will only be successful in this approach if you move to the remote bush. I have been up the Strezleki and Birdsville Tracks, stayed in the cave hotel in Cooper Pedy, visited Andamooka, Katherine, and similar places many times. Perhaps you will find peace there? Or maybe build a giant wall around your house in the suburbs?

Ghettos? No go areas? These are trigger words for the immoderate anti-immgrant. Funny how people don't complain about Chinese ghettos, better known as China Towns where you can get delicious dim sum and interesting decorative artefacts. Similar 'ghettos' exist for the last generation of boat people; the Vietnamese and Khmer. In fact one ghetto of Brits who came out in the 50's existed next to where I grew up. Bit of a cultural desert that was though. Used to just drive through on the way to the big smoke. I understand why many immigrant families would choose to live in neighbourhoods populated by similar people. It will be their children, the 2nd generation who will integrate with other communities.

Immigrants imposing their laws? This is the bogeyman du jour. Sharia law, throwing blankets over women and all that stuff. Because an immigrant chooses to continue their traditional way of life and customs in a new country does not equate with them requiring others to follow such practices. If they are uncomfortable with others not following these practices do they not have the same right of freedom of expression to express that discomfort? In any case, self survival and balanced mental health would mean that most immigrants would take a tolerant view of the practices of others. I have never had a muslim man berate me for not having a beard. I worked in Afghanistan for while and one of my drivers was beardless and had been imprisoned by the Taliban for 3 years for not having a beard. Although I suspect it was more for him being the son of a Police Chief in the former regime.

I think this 'domino' theory of muslim take over is somewhat hysterical and unreal. That theory didn't work for Communism in South East Asia to the detriment of the lives of many Australians that were lost in Vietnam.

Ok then, what about muslims not letting us eat bacon? I saw that VDO of the KFC in Sydney that didn't serve bacon and the reaction by the minimum income lad who was being goaded by a couple of white preppies. I would have been the same as those white boys in my intolerant youth. I would probably have got on a high horse about not being able to have bacon in a restaurant in Australia. But funnily the decision on bacon would have been made commercially by the franchise. They exist to make money by serving their customers. Clearly they were tailoring the menu to the tastes of their predominant customers. They do that in many countries including Thailand. I used to like the small cobs of corn at KFC but you can't get them here in Thailand. Is the bacon decision a marker of muslims imposing their way of life on Australians and I use the word muslim probably incorrectly as there are cultural, geographic, gender, socio-economic and other issues at play as well as religion.

I claimed that immigrants contribute to Australian society by changing it. I also claim that diversity makes our culture stronger. Only a fragile culture or weak-minded people need worry about acculturation by immigrants. The Greeks and Italians of my youth gave us the cafe culture in urban Australia that started in the 70's. The Vietnames and Khmer have given us the fusion food culture of the 90's. Notice how this happens around the time of the 2nd generation of the immigrants? Remember the noise and opposition to those 1st generation of immigrants when they arrived, impoverished and in need. The more I read the hysteria about immigration and the more I write in reaction to it, the more certain I am that multiculturalism is the right direction to make us stronger and better able to deal with the challenges of immigration.

If you ever find any law on the books or proposed that forces you to act in a way that is not consistent with the freedoms that we expect in our Australian democracy, then please let this be known. You will find me there opposing it alongside you. I don't think this will happen though. I am confident in our culture and society.

[ABCer]

Dear Tep. It's a pleasure to converse with you here on TV. You convey your views and thoughts without getting into personal abuse or dismissing opinions off-handed. Thanks.

I am not anti-immigration. I cannot be, as I am only an Australian for the measly 40 years.

SE Asia (Vietnam) did fall for Communism. Both ideologically and militarily. Luckily for all of us economically Communists collapsed practically everywhere. Including Vietnam.

As to 'no go areas' - you better talk to (or read about) French, English, Belgians, Swedes or US Americans. Google is everybody's friend.

Fusion of cultures in second and third generations you mention is a wonderful thing. I have traveled enough to say that Melbourne is the best eatery in the world thanks to it.

You are also right saying that no one here including yourself directly opposed to a free expression of opinion. Yet half of the posters rejoiced in Pauline Hanson's imprisonment. And allowed derogatory remarks despite the fact she was cleared and compensated by the Court. I felt I had to speak in her favour. And I think I have made a point.

Funny, that you mention 'integration of the second generation with other communities' while objecting to mine 'conformity' with Australian ways. The semantics do not bother me.

Finally, what is left of our differences - one thing - 'the bogeyman du jour'. We obviously can peacefully agree on disagreeing here. I think this 'bogeyman' is very real, very dangerous and is the only one thing which is not going to change in second, third, etc. generation.

To sum up all you and I are saying is - you consider Islam benign where I think it is a deadly threat. Hope we can leave it at this and respect each other opinions.

P.S. Let me leave your last phrase about written laws without comment. Just look at what happened to this silly redhead named Pauline Hanson. The issue of written vs practical application of Laws in many different countries is a huge entirely different topic. Political Correctness and politically motivated trials - terms not born in vacuum.

Respects, ABCer

Edited November 23, 2014 by ABCer