Obama offer to 5m illegal migrants

chuckd · November 21, 2014

Seventy-five percent of all Americans across the political spectrum support the provision in the president's executive order which implements comprehensive immigration reform, most specifically as its central features, the following...

Essentially, the bill would allow undocumented immigrants who have been in the U.S. since before 2012—and who are also in good standing with law—to apply for a newly created status, "Registered Provisional Immigrant," which is good for six years, at which point it can be renewed for another six. After ten years as an RPI, and provided they meet certain requirements, immigrants can apply for Lawful Permanent Residence, or a green card; after three years with a green card, they may apply for citizenship.

This means a 13-year path to citizenship for most undocumented immigrants.

Significantly, the following groups of individuals would no longer be subject to quotas:

1) Spouses and children of EB immigrants

2) EB-1A persons of extraordinary ability

3) EB-1B outstanding professors and researchers

4) EB-1C multinational executives and managers

5) Persons holding a doctorate degree in any field

6) Physicians

Who have completed their 2-year home residency requirement

Who have received an Interest Government Agency J waiver

Included are MDs who completed their service requirement before the enactment of this law

7) Persons with an advanced STEM degree from a U.S. university

Who have an offer of employment in the U.S. in a related field; and

If they earned their degree within 5 years of the petition filing

8) The 10,000 cap on unskilled workers in the EB-3 category is abolished

http://gawker.com/whats-the-deal-with-the-immigration-reform-bill-a-guid-570781055

What does this link have to do with Obama's executive order?

Your link relates to Senate bill S.744, the "Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act."

This bill was passed by the Senate in June 2013 but failed to garner any Republican support when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) refused to negotiate the bill with Republicans in the House.

You failed to provide a link in support of your allegation that 75% of Americans support the Executive Order provisions. Please provide one.

You also failed to provide the link where your eight talking points came from. I could not find them in the link you provided on S.744.

The link to the ~~Gallop~~ Gallup poll is in another thread and you addressed it specifically in a post you made to the thread....check it out to see what you posted in reply to my post containing the link.

I know it's a couple of ~~daze~~ days later for you but do try to keep up thx.

Not being enthusiastic about reading any more of your posts than are absolutely necessary, can you simply provide the link?

You had no problem giving us the information from the link so it would be incumbent on you to provide backup to support your allegations.

As it stands now, your quote is unattributed. Up to you.

arjunadawn · November 21, 2014

Two of the last three Republican presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush did the same thing.

Actually, that is a blatant untruth. They tweaked a law that had already been passed by congress, which is within presidential powers. Obama effectively made up his own law, which is not. He has said it himself numerous times over the last 6 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIVaa37mZv4

Yes, of course, and this is the entire foundation of our government- all laws come from the house and the executive enacts those laws in accordance with intent, and yes, a bit of discretion. But no, refusing to enforce a law is a crime of omission. Making a law without congress, ipso facto, is a crime of comission. There must be legislation, relevant legislation, upon which to issue executive orders.

Publicus · November 21, 2014

Reagan regreted this action as it was tied to promises in the House that never came to pass to fulfill part of the legislative matter regarding locking down the border. Reagan's actions did not draw a rebuke from the world because it was facilitated by legislators who, disingenuously, allowed him to go out on this limb under the backroom premise that they would follow with comprehenisve legislation. So, the issue really is, can an executive pass such actions without the spoken or conceeded consent of the legislature? I assert, no. Obama's actions willfully violate his Oath of Office "..to uphold the laws..." of the United States of America.

All of us can find (mostly) precedent for our arguments; its not too hard. But the question must be, what is different about now? Why? Why would there appear to be such outrage if there were executive actions similar in the past? It is a fair question. The answer can no longer be the tired refrain "racism," or desire to "make Obama fail." What is overwhelmingly apparent now is the entire breadth of the American electorate rebuked Obama and his progressive policies. This really cannot be intellectually equvicated- the people soundly rejected the notion that "like it or not, my policies are [being voted for] this november." America spoke and instead of noting the majority who rejected him Obama argued the irrational and dangerous folly that he now represents the other voters who elected not to vote. How utterly absurd and bankrupt.

Obama is not doing 'this' "with America's acquiescence any longer, now Obama is doing this "to" America.

President Obama has acted within the law and within his constitutional authority to execute the laws and also in the interests of national security as commander in chief.

To wit:

UCLA law professor Hiroshi Motomura has been a leading voice for the view that enforcement policy is entrusted to the president.

"He cannot change the rules for granting permanent resident status or putting noncitizens on a path to citizenship," Motomura said. "But he has the legal authority to set priorities for enforcement." That may include giving "temporary reprieves to a significant number of unauthorized migrants." It's a power that has been used by most presidents over the last 70 years. President Kennedy shielded Cubans who arrived on U.S. shores.

President George H.W. Bush, building on similar executive action taken by President Reagan, shielded an estimated 1.5 million children and spouses of immigrants who'd been granted amnesty under a 1986 law. Both presidents acted alone after Congress declined to include the immigrants' family members.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-1119-immigration-legal-basis-20141119-story.html#page=1

Edited November 21, 2014 by Publicus

Ulysses G. · November 21, 2014

There must be legislation, relevant legislation, upon which to issue executive orders.

That is it in a nutshell and Obama said the exact some thing, publicly, at least 25 times over the last 6 years. His job is to enforce laws, not make them up and he is purposely circumventing the law that is already in place.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Ulysses G.

Publicus · November 21, 2014

The president has the legal authority to issue this executive order under the constitution and under the United States Code of Laws, Title 8, Aliens and Nationality.

To wit....

U.S. Code: Title 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8

Edited November 21, 2014 by Publicus

Ulysses G. · November 21, 2014

“I know some people want me to bypass Congress and change the (immigration) on my own. But that‘s not how our system works. That’s not how our democracy functions. That’s not how our Constitution is written.”

-Barack Obama

Scott · November 21, 2014

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies removed. The topic is NOT about who are the worst presidents.

zydeco · November 21, 2014

“I know some people want me to bypass Congress and change the (immigration) on my own. But that‘s not how our system works. That’s not how our democracy functions. That’s not how our Constitution is written.”

-Barack Obama

Clearly Obama was either lying then or lying now. Or incompetent. Probably, all three.

Publicus · November 21, 2014

“I know some people want me to bypass Congress and change the (immigration) on my own. But that‘s not how our system works. That’s not how our democracy functions. That’s not how our Constitution is written.”

-Barack Obama

President Obama has the constitutional and legal authority period.

F430murci · November 21, 2014

I know some people want me to bypass Congress and change the (immigration) on my own. But thats not how our system works. Thats not how our democracy functions. Thats not how our Constitution is written.

-Barack Obama

President Obama has the constitutional and legal authority period.

Constitutional and legal authority to do what? Be a complete dumb arrrsssee.

Chicog · November 21, 2014

Republicans have argued the action is beyond his authority and relations with the president will be poisoned.

The Obama-hating party who have done just about everything in their power to cripple Obama at every turn now claim that "relations with the president will be poisoned"?

You couldn't make that up.

thailiketoo · November 21, 2014

Republicans have argued the action is beyond his authority and relations with the president will be poisoned.

The Obama-hating party who have done just about everything in their power to cripple Obama at every turn now claim that "relations with the president will be poisoned"?

You couldn't make that up.

Americans defeated President Obama's disastrous amnesty plans both in Congressand at the voting booth. Tonight, President Obama defied an entire nation and declared that he will impose his rejected amnesty through the brute force of executive order.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/11/20/obama-immigration-amnesty-reform-executive-action-overreach-imperial-emperor-column/19293813/

chuckd · November 21, 2014

Republicans have argued the action is beyond his authority and relations with the president will be poisoned.

The Obama-hating party who have done just about everything in their power to cripple Obama at every turn now claim that "relations with the president will be poisoned"?

You couldn't make that up.

If he had done anything to reach across the aisle in the past six years, you might have a point.

As it is, the poison started setting in during the Democratic controlled Congress in 2009-2010. It continued with Senator Harry Reid's shenanigans in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014.

This Executive Order does not begin to heal any wounds.

Edited November 21, 2014 by chuckd

Anthony5 · November 21, 2014

“I know some people want me to bypass Congress and change the (immigration) on my own. But that‘s not how our system works. That’s not how our democracy functions. That’s not how our Constitution is written.”

-Barack Obama

And right he was, people shouldn't force a president to bypass bypass Congress to get a law approved, only because they have an agenda. I think that's how any constitution worldwide is written.

Loptr · November 21, 2014

President Lincoln issued his Emancipation Proclamation by Executive Order to free US slaves and President Truman used Executive Order to racially desegregate the US armed forces.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/14/clyburn_on_immigration_lincoln_used_the_executive_order_to_do_the_emancipation_proclamation.html#ooid=swZXNwcTp00VFA-3zTqSGORhznE1NI_3
Clyburn on Immigration: "Lincoln Used The Executive Order To Do The Emancipation Proclamation

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REP. JIM CLYBURN (D-South Carolina): [The Senate immigration reform bill has] been here in the House for 18 months. I think it's high time that the president were to act. As you know, I have been urging the president to use the executive orders to do this. I think it would put him in big company.

Lincoln use the executive order to do the Emancipation Proclamation. Truman used it on the armed services. I can go down and see where the presidents have used their executive authority to do some mighty big things that have very positive impacts on the country. So, I am calling upon the president to take his place among that group that I just enunciated. I think it's very, very important for him to do so.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/14/clyburn_on_immigration_lincoln_used_the_executive_order_to_do_the_emancipation_proclamation.html

So you think it is a good idea for Obama, to grant amnesty to several million illegals. OMG!

President Reagan issued an executive order in 1987 granting amnesty to illegal aliens with a great backlash, so no president has tried amnesty since.

President Obama's executive order provides comprehensive immigration reform without any amnesty because the negative lesson of amnesty is a well learned one.

President Obama's executive order is not an amnesty. It accomplishes its purpose without the mistakes of the past.

To reiterate, everyone in Washington has learned from the Reagan experience that an amnesty for illegal immigrants is a no-win issue. So Prez Obama's executive order has nothing to do with any amnesty.....

Only the Obama bashers and the immigration phobes are trying ever so desperately to say the president's executive order is an amnesty. Prez Obama has not issued any amnesty and will never issue an amnesty.

Prez Obama accomplishes the purpose by requiring a 13 year process for illegal immigrants to legitimize their status. It is not an amnesty, it is a work and credits earned program, not a grant or an award or a recognition of illegality.

Reagan And Bush Made The Same Immigration Move That Has The GOP Enraged At Obama

President Barack Obama's anticipated order that would shield millions of immigrants now living illegally in the U.S. from deportation is not without precedent..

Two of the last three Republican presidents — Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush — did the same thing.

There was no political explosion then comparable to the one Republicans are threatening now.

A tea party-influenced GOP is poised to erupt if and when Obama follows through on his promise. He wants to extend protection from deportation to millions of immigrant parents and spouses of U.S. citizens and permanent residents, and expand his 2-year-old program that shields immigrants brought illegally to this country as children.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/reagan-and-bush-made-immigration-executive-orders-2014-11#ixzz3JgxZDpJO

i

"I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally," Ronald Reagan said in 1984.

Typical liberal lies... Reagan did not sign an executive order granting illegals amnesty, he signed legislation that was passed by the House and Senate...

You know hope is lost when the opponents begin to believe their own lies...

The borders were supposed to be secured after the 1984 legislation, but we see how far that has gone...

Loptr · November 21, 2014

“I know some people want me to bypass Congress and change the (immigration) on my own. But that‘s not how our system works. That’s not how our democracy functions. That’s not how our Constitution is written.”

-Barack Obama

And he only made that comment 22 times in public since 2006...

Loptr · November 21, 2014

President Lincoln issued his Emancipation Proclamation by Executive Order to free US slaves and President Truman used Executive Order to racially desegregate the US armed forces.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/14/clyburn_on_immigration_lincoln_used_the_executive_order_to_do_the_emancipation_proclamation.html#ooid=swZXNwcTp00VFA-3zTqSGORhznE1NI_3

Clyburn on Immigration: "Lincoln Used The Executive Order To Do The Emancipation Proclamation

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REP. JIM CLYBURN (D-South Carolina): [The Senate immigration reform bill has] been here in the House for 18 months. I think it's high time that the president were to act. As you know, I have been urging the president to use the executive orders to do this. I think it would put him in big company.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/14/clyburn_on_immigration_lincoln_used_the_executive_order_to_do_the_emancipation_proclamation.html

If you do not see the difference between Lincoln's action to halt slavery and today's situation, there is no hope of explaining it to you... Nice way to parrot the talking points though, Nancy Pelosi would be proud of you...

thailiketoo · November 21, 2014

President Lincoln issued his Emancipation Proclamation by Executive Order to free US slaves and President Truman used Executive Order to racially desegregate the US armed forces.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/14/clyburn_on_immigration_lincoln_used_the_executive_order_to_do_the_emancipation_proclamation.html#ooid=swZXNwcTp00VFA-3zTqSGORhznE1NI_3

Clyburn on Immigration: "Lincoln Used The Executive Order To Do The Emancipation Proclamation

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REP. JIM CLYBURN (D-South Carolina): [The Senate immigration reform bill has] been here in the House for 18 months. I think it's high time that the president were to act. As you know, I have been urging the president to use the executive orders to do this. I think it would put him in big company.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/14/clyburn_on_immigration_lincoln_used_the_executive_order_to_do_the_emancipation_proclamation.html

If you do not see the difference between Lincoln's action to halt slavery and today's situation, there is no hope of explaining it to you... Nice way to parrot the talking points though, Nancy Pelosi would be proud of you...

He only freed the slaves in the Southern States he had no control over that were in rebellion against the Union. It was kind of like if Jefferson Davis declared Mondays a holiday in New York. It made no difference.

Edited November 21, 2014 by thailiketoo

arjunadawn · November 21, 2014

The president has the legal authority to issue this executive order under the constitution and under the United States Code of Laws, Title 8, Aliens and Nationality.

To wit....

U.S. Code: Title 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY

CHAPTER 1—GENERAL PROVISIONS (§ 1_to_18)

CHAPTER 2—ELECTIVE FRANCHISE (§ 31,_32)

CHAPTER 3—CIVIL RIGHTS (§§ 41_to_43–53_to_56)

CHAPTER 4—FREEDMEN (§ 61_to_65)

CHAPTER 5—ALIEN OWNERSHIP OF LAND (§§ 71_to_78–83_to_86)

CHAPTER 6—IMMIGRATION (§§ 100,_101–241_to_246)

CHAPTER 7—EXCLUSION OF CHINESE (§§ 261–299)

CHAPTER 8—THE COOLY TRADE (§ 331_to_339)

CHAPTER 9—MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS (§ 351_to_416)

CHAPTER 10—ALIEN REGISTRATION (§ 451_to_460)

CHAPTER 11—NATIONALITY (§§ 501_to_504–1001_to_1006)

CHAPTER 12—IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY (§§ 1101–1537)

CHAPTER 13—IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE (§§ 1551–1574)

CHAPTER 14—RESTRICTING WELFARE AND PUBLIC BENEFITS FOR ALIENS (§§ 1601–1646)

CHAPTER 15—ENHANCED BORDER SECURITY AND VISA ENTRY REFORM (§§ 1701–1778)

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8

If two people, you and I, look at the same information and arrive at different conclusions, I then ask this: Why? Why would the president do this irrespective of whether or not he is empowered to when the recent elections were so overwhelmingly suggestive or not working together but stopping the progressive policies of Obama?

Obama made it abundantly clear preceding the elections, much to the chagrin of democrats, that his policies are most definitely on the ballot. For one to reach a conclusion about the sentiment of the electorate that is at odds with my statements here flies in the face of hundreds of years of how the results of US elections are intrepreted. A most cogent and similar example is Clinton's total repudiation in the midterm elections. Employing the electoral wisdom of hundreds of years this was accurately interpreted, by him, as a rejection of his polices. Thus Clinton, for which he is now historically well know, shifted to the center and better embraced opposition policies in compromise. This is what elections mean relative to the executive in midterm elections. How Obama repudiates this only suggests a gross disdain for Americans. As Michele Obama famously said "This is the first time I am proud to be an American." Perhaps this was also the last time for both of them because rejecting the loud and clear alarm of the midterm elections is a mud pie in the face of Americans.

Jingthing · November 21, 2014

Geraldo Rivera said he would bet his own house Obama's actions are legal and will never be successfully overturned based on illegality.

Next ...

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

arjunadawn · November 21, 2014

President Lincoln issued his Emancipation Proclamation by Executive Order to free US slaves and President Truman used Executive Order to racially desegregate the US armed forces.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/14/clyburn_on_immigration_lincoln_used_the_executive_order_to_do_the_emancipation_proclamation.html#ooid=swZXNwcTp00VFA-3zTqSGORhznE1NI_3

Clyburn on Immigration: "Lincoln Used The Executive Order To Do The Emancipation Proclamation

Rate this post

REP. JIM CLYBURN (D-South Carolina): [The Senate immigration reform bill has] been here in the House for 18 months. I think it's high time that the president were to act. As you know, I have been urging the president to use the executive orders to do this. I think it would put him in big company.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/14/clyburn_on_immigration_lincoln_used_the_executive_order_to_do_the_emancipation_proclamation.html

If you do not see the difference between Lincoln's action to halt slavery and today's situation, there is no hope of explaining it to you... Nice way to parrot the talking points though, Nancy Pelosi would be proud of you...

He only freed the slaves in the Southern States he had no control over that were in rebellion against the Union. It was kind of like if Jefferson Davis declared Mondays a holiday in New York. It made no difference.

Clyburn is a lying, race baiting opportunist. While his earlier life has great merit as a civil rights leader, he has betrayed reason and impartiality numerous times. Indeed, he was recently caught lying accusing Tea Party Protesters of spitting on him when overwhelming video suggested they did not. His comparing granting criminals a pardon, or sorts, to freeing the slaves should identify Clyburn as a true uncle tom, selling morality out for votes. There is no way that economic migrants seeking the American Teet are equvilent to the horror of slavery. In Clyburn's case the end justify the means. Sadly, it is not uncommon for black people in America today to use race to employ white guilt, policy "hostage-taking," and red herrings to avoid debate.

Moreover, likeing Obama to Lincoln might not be a stretch after all, though for very different reasons. It is only the sterilized history that has Lincoln the savior of african americans. Lincoln was no such thing and only later employed the Emancipation Proclamation prop to bolster his managing of the war and to further assert a moral superiority notion to the War over State's Rights. Not only had Lincoln approved policies of sending slaves back in his early days but he also repeatedly objected to the notion that the constitutional authority to act alone was vested in him. Thus the connection to Obama is quite palpable. Obama too knows he has no constitutional leg to stand on.

In Lincoln's case it proves a true adage that history is written by the victors and thus he proclamation was in essence validated by the outcome of the war itself. I dont disapprove of the outcome only the fallacious notion that it was constitutionally legal. Lincoln singlehandedly began the process of transfering power to the executive that presidents prior to Lincoln did not enjoy, and would have clearly stated did not belong vested in the executive. Obama does have comparisons to Lincoln in the self evident usurping of powers clearly not vested in him as no mechanism of "reverse" law exists to empower discretion to the point of reversing or writing laws.

I am not a legal scholar but the prima faciae constitutionality of such a thing was always supposed to be the soverign of every citizen. This is the very reason individuals take an oath at all. It is presumed that among the inherrent powers of every citizen is the first glance power to assess the constitutionality of various things, with courts later the final arbitars. I declare easily that this is illegal.

thailiketoo · November 21, 2014

When Lincoln issued the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation in September 1862, England had been threatening to intervene in the American Civil War for over a year. Lincoln's intent to issue the final document on January 1, 1863, effectively prevented England, which had abolished slavery in its own territories, from stepping into the U.S. conflict.

http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/od/introtoforeignpolicy/a/Emancipation-Proclamation-Was-Also-Foreign-Policy.htm

And now you know the rest of the story.

boomerangutang · November 21, 2014

It is unbelievable that the next best president, after JFK, the US has ever had is slagged off for everything he does.

Must be the Ostrich syndrome.

I'm sure you all can't wait to get ripped off by the next Bush generation.

And what Planet are you from....???
2nd best President...555. 2nd best at being the worst.

It's easy to throw rotten tomatoes.

I don't know if Obama is the 2nd best president. Kennedy gave the green light to the 'Bay of Pigs' fiasco, remember? Though that program was initiated by Eisenhower's people.

I watched Obama give a 'thank you' speech to his campaign staff after his 2nd electorial victory. I saw a very decent man speaking in that video. I can't say the same, by a long shot, for any other recent prez, except Carter, though I also like Mr. Clinton (and his wife).

zydeco · November 21, 2014

It is unbelievable that the next best president, after JFK, the US has ever had is slagged off for everything he does.

Must be the Ostrich syndrome.

I'm sure you all can't wait to get ripped off by the next Bush generation.

And what Planet are you from....???
2nd best President...555. 2nd best at being the worst.

It's easy to throw rotten tomatoes.
I don't know if Obama is the 2nd best president. Kennedy gave the green light to the 'Bay of Pigs' fiasco, remember? Though that program was initiated by Eisenhower's people.

I watched Obama give a 'thank you' speech to his campaign staff after his 2nd electorial victory. I saw a very decent man speaking in that video. I can't say the same, by a long shot, for any other recent prez, except Carter, though I also like Mr. Clinton (and his wife).

If you judge presidents by how they treat their staffs, as stated above, you might want to go back and review your love for the Clintons, both of whom were notorious for abusing White House staff.

thailiketoo · November 21, 2014

It is unbelievable that the next best president, after JFK, the US has ever had is slagged off for everything he does.

Must be the Ostrich syndrome.

I'm sure you all can't wait to get ripped off by the next Bush generation.

And what Planet are you from....???
2nd best President...555. 2nd best at being the worst.

It's easy to throw rotten tomatoes.
I don't know if Obama is the 2nd best president. Kennedy gave the green light to the 'Bay of Pigs' fiasco, remember? Though that program was initiated by Eisenhower's people.

I watched Obama give a 'thank you' speech to his campaign staff after his 2nd electorial victory. I saw a very decent man speaking in that video. I can't say the same, by a long shot, for any other recent prez, except Carter, though I also like Mr. Clinton (and his wife).

You judge a President by a speech to campaign staff? My God Carter is ranked as one of the six worst Presidents and Obama's approval ratings are lower than Bush. You must be one of them guys who likes that guy who just got fired; Piers Morgan.

Edited November 21, 2014 by thailiketoo

chuckd · November 21, 2014

Republicans have argued the action is beyond his authority and relations with the president will be poisoned.

The Obama-hating party who have done just about everything in their power to cripple Obama at every turn now claim that "relations with the president will be poisoned"?

You couldn't make that up.

Americans defeated President Obama's disastrous amnesty plans both in Congressand at the voting booth. Tonight, President Obama defied an entire nation and declared that he will impose his rejected amnesty through the brute force of executive order.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/11/20/obama-immigration-amnesty-reform-executive-action-overreach-imperial-emperor-column/19293813/

Yes, but Sessions isn't a big fan of black people is he? I'm surprised he didn't call Obama "boy" in the article.

Where did you manage to come up with this allegation?

sustento · November 21, 2014

I watched all of Obama's speech as broadcast on Fox News here in Chiang Mai. I heard every word he said. When he'd finished I watched Fox and Krauthammer respond with bile to a speech that he didn't actually make...

beechguy · November 21, 2014

Always amusing to hear Americans complain so much about immigration, when they are basically all immigrants themselves ...

Yes, the difference is that our ancestors came here legally, but no need to confuse yourself with facts.

ZuluTango70 · November 21, 2014

Always amusing to hear Americans complain so much about immigration, when they are basically all immigrants themselves ...

Yes, the difference is that our ancestors came here legally, but no need to confuse yourself with facts.

I am pretty certain the native Americans issued visas to your ancestors LOL.

thailiketoo · November 21, 2014

Always amusing to hear Americans complain so much about immigration, when they are basically all immigrants themselves ...

Yes, the difference is that our ancestors came here legally, but no need to confuse yourself with facts.

I am pretty certain the native Americans issued visas to your ancestors LOL.

The Purchase of Manhattan Island, 1626. Dutch New York. THIRTEEN. This letter from Peter Schaghen, written in 1626, makes the earliest known reference to the company's purchase of Manhattan Island from the Lenape Indians for 60 guilders.

So yes in a manner of speaking a visa cost the Dutch 60 guilders. And of course the Indian casinos on the reservation make American Indians rich beyond their wildest dreams when chasing buffalo and not having indoor plumbing.

Edited November 21, 2014 by thailiketoo

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