Foundation cracks - serious?

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

Hi there

This bldg (on one of the southern islands) has some units for sale that I've been looking at. On a recent scouting mission I took these pics and noticed the horizontal cracks.

I'm not a structural engineer. I'd hire one, as per usual course in my birth country, if I could find one in Thailand.

Are these cracks normal 'settling' cracks or are they a sign of bigger problems? Anyone? Thank you in advance.

PS - the rest of the building, including the roof, the living space, the glass, to the naked eye looks to be well-built. There is a generous overhang. No bad smells or insects/rats whatsoever in the living space. Strong water pressure.

[Johnnie99]

Foundation cracks. Cracks upon which the structure is built.

Serious?

You decide. Decide to where the hell the water drains ... likely in the foundations themselves.

[Scheduler]

Water is eroding the dirt/soil from under the wall and its footings, if it has footings. Something else I have noticed in Thailand is that builders will raise the the level of a building site by adding soil to the site. The added soil is not compacted. Time, gravity and water cause settling and in some situations substantial cracks appear in the concrete and masonry walls.

[recycler]

Don't buy, rent than you can go when it get worse.

[everett kendall]

What is behind the cracked wall?

[Mooner]

Structural cracks tend to go downwards. That looks like it been caused by water sitting in an area and then being soaked up causing cracking in the render.

[catweazle]

Hairline cracks that run vertical or sligthly at an angle usually are nothing to worry about. Vertical cracks like these show the walls that were built onto that beam have separated from it. Not good, not good at all! The house will not collapse because of this, but seeing this, I'd expect additional problems all over the place. I'd advise against buying if the shown walls are part of the building and not just simple retaining walls around the garden. Am in the construction biz since 2003...

Edited November 22, 2014 by catweazle

[khunPer]

Without being an expert - and based on OPs comments in photos - I tend to agree with Mooner in post #6 above.
I would do something to drain water during wet season (or in general), as in time damages may be more serious...

[shaggy851]

Looks like one of the pics shows a balcony don't imagine there's much of a problem there. The main column pictured probably isn't too bad either as long as the metal work the main I beam isn't cracked also. I'm only talking about the structural integrity of it looking like a condominium of an apartment building. Also I'm no engineer just looks as though its nothing that can't be fixed. Maybe look into that and offset the cost before buying if they are showing inside your unit.

[Anthony5]

Hairline cracks that run vertical or sligthly at an angle usually are nothing to worry about. Vertical cracks like these show the walls that were built onto that beam have separated from it. Not good, not good at all! The house will not collapse because of this, but seeing this, I'd expect additional problems all over the place. I'd advise against buying if the shown walls are part of the building and not just simple retaining walls around the garden. Am in the construction biz since 2003...

Just to refresh your memory again

[sead]

Horizontal cracks is not good

[IMHO]

If you can't find a structural engineer to inspect it - the next best option would be the chip away the render around that post so you can understand just how deep the cracks go.

If the cracks are just in the render, no problem and easy to fix. If the post itself has any cracks you are in trouble though.

Most probably you'll just find that the render is too thick.

Edited November 22, 2014 by IMHO

[cheeryble]

Kinda worrisome.

Possible a section of heavy (thick) render coating has pulled down as one. In this best case the waist high wall between the columns may have been erected on an inadequate strip foundation and not a connected beam, though the columns hopefully are on properly prescribed footings, and the settling render has taken the crack through the column render too.

It is more than an acceptable settlement (shrinkage) crack.

If it was on my house I wouldn't like it.

Edited November 23, 2014 by cheeryble

[Strangebrew]

Look if Building is new and already showing cracks run don't walk away from buying period I wouldn't even rent it. I don't know how it is done in Thailand but in the State's a soil study is done on the land any building is to be erected. Then once done a good solid building pad is constructed. On that goes your foundation. Yes ground settles that's why a pad goes first compact the ground to lessen the problem. Thai soil study Does it look like dirt yep good 200 story building done with cheap labor.

[cheeryble]

Sorry....I mentioned BKK and see you're in the south.....cannot say if piles are required probably not.

[trogers]

I would venture to guess that the cracked walls are not fully supported by the main structure of the house (columns, beams and slab). These walls, and a duct shaft, are probably sitting on an extended slab that is hinged from the house beams and just compacted soil outside the house structure.

Soil erosion under this extended slab causes settling, and the cracks.

[cheeryble]

I would venture to guess that the cracked walls are not fully supported by the main structure of the house (columns, beams and slab). These walls, and a duct shaft, are probably sitting on an extended slab that is hinged from the house beams and just compacted soil outside the house structure.

Soil erosion under this extended slab causes settling, and the cracks.

Agreed.

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

Hi everyone, thanks for the input.

I should have been clearer and more specific. I attached 2 new pics.

This bldg is a multi-unit, 3-level condo bldg that was built approx 2007/2008. Walk straight out the main door for 400 m and you get to the beach.

The cracks in the pics look mostly horizontal to me <-----------> and are on a section of wall that surrounds the bldg's entrance 'landing' or 'platform'.

The sections of wall underneath the pillars aren't cracked horizontally. But there are cracks where the wall meets the pavement. Water definitely seeps in there.

During heavy heavy rain the water pools where that lower wall meets the pavement. No doubt water is seeping in where the wall meets the pavement.

The question is how much damage does this do over time? I mean, will it totally eff up the entire bldg? Or, is this sort of thing accounted for and to be expected (and the bldg won't collapse...)?

Thanks for any further input

Edited November 24, 2014 by Woke to Sounds of Horking

[trogers]

Hi everyone, thanks for the input.

I should have been clearer and more specific. I attached 2 new pics.

This bldg is a multi-unit, 3-level condo bldg that was built approx 2007/2008. Walk straight out the main door for 400 m and you get to the beach.

The cracks in the pics look mostly horizontal to me <-----------> and are on a section of wall that surrounds the bldg's entrance 'landing' or 'platform'.

The sections of wall underneath the pillars aren't cracked horizontally. But there are cracks where the wall meets the pavement. Water definitely seeps in there.

During heavy heavy rain the water pools where that lower wall meets the pavement. No doubt water is seeping in where the wall meets the pavement.

The question is how much damage does this do over time? I mean, will it totally eff up the entire bldg? Or, is this sort of thing accounted for and to be expected (and the bldg won't collapse...)?

Thanks for any further input

2014-11-24_082418.jpg

2014-11-24_083008.jpg

Like I have said, the building structure ends at the last row of columns (pillars) and there would be beams linking these columns and support the slab. The problem arises when the slab inside the building structure is extended out of that last row of columns, and is just lying on compacted soil.

The slab is tied to the beams at one edge (hinged) and freely settle on soil beyond these beams. When the soil consolidate or gets eroded, the extended slab will move downwards and twist the beams.

The walls would then crack horizontally, like bending a piece of wafer using both hands.

[trogers]

These cracks developed due to movement of the extended slab and do not compromise the integrity of the building structure.

Normally, the outside slab is constructed independent to the building structure. The slab would then sink downwards evenly as much as 20cm within five years.

[sead]

Seems after all warnings you still want it. Are you so bored in life that you want to gamble on those cracks. Those cracks is a bad sign. If someone told me so many no i would keep looking elsewhere.

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

Thanks for the logical reply, trogers. And to sead, what gives? How dare you insinuate as to what I want to do. How would you know? How would you know if I'm a gambling man or a bored man? I never said I wanted to buy into this bldg. Assumptions...

[Pib]

These cracks developed due to movement of the extended slab and do not compromise the integrity of the building structure.

Normally, the outside slab is constructed independent to the building structure. The slab would then sink downwards evenly as much as 20cm within five years.

Agree with the first and second sentence. But the third sentence would only apply if they did not drive concrete columns/poles of X-length into the ground to support the outside slab. The columns/poles used for the surrounding slab would be much shorter than the columns/poles used for the main structure. When I had some slab added around my house here in Bangkok they drove 2 to 3 meter long columns/poles into the ground first and then laid the slab. The house structure itself used 17 to 20 meter long columns/poles Been no sinking or cracking of my house structure or surrounding slab structure so far after 7 years for the house and around 2 years for the slab I added...and there was some slab laid when the house was built 7 years ago and I they used 2 to 3 meter columns/poles for that slab also with no sinking so far.

[trogers]

These cracks developed due to movement of the extended slab and do not compromise the integrity of the building structure.

Normally, the outside slab is constructed independent to the building structure. The slab would then sink downwards evenly as much as 20cm within five years.

Agree with the first and second sentence. But the third sentence would only apply if they did not drive concrete columns/poles of X-length into the ground to support the outside slab. The columns/poles used for the surrounding slab would be much shorter than the columns/poles used for the main structure. When I had some slab added around my house here in Bangkok they drove 2 to 3 meter long columns/poles into the ground first and then laid the slab. The house structure itself used 17 to 20 meter long columns/poles Been no sinking or cracking of my house structure or surrounding slab structure so far after 7 years for the house and around 2 years for the slab I added...and there was some slab laid when the house was built 7 years ago and I they used 2 to 3 meter columns/poles for that slab also with no sinking so far.

Agree with the use of short friction piles to reduce differential settlement between main building and surface slab, in soft clay.

The project in this discussion is in the South likely with firm clay of the hills. Unlikely to even be able to drive piles deeper than 6m for the main building. Outside slab is probably resting on backfilled compacted soil.